2010 Samsung Plasma Buzz - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by xxrockmanxneoxx View Post
I just received my TV as well PN58c7000. Right now I do not have any devices connected to it besides running the slides on a flash drive and its connected to a power conditioner (Belkin PF30). I can hear the buzzing even past 10 feet. I have not yet had a tech come out. My TV is mounted on the wall
Any reason why you went with the PF30 surge protector. Currently Im researching surge protectors for the 58 c8000 and Pioneer SC 25 receiver and right now have a Panamax M5100, but thinking for the price (can get it for $250), is a bit much compared to the Belkin PF30 which can be had at times for $60. Any feedback would be appreciated. TIA.
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post #812 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 08:00 AM
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Assuming that the 2011 Samsung plasma's will be announced at CES next week, any idea when they may be in retail stores?

I purchased my 58C8000 at Best Buy and tried to do an exchange due to buzzing. Their system wouldn't allow any new orders of this same set for the exchange (policy due to backorders) so the manager made a note on my purchase that they would allow me until end of February to do an exchange, to allow time for the set to become available.

A side question I have is...is the UN55C8000 LED/LCD that bad compared to the plasma? I realize it's all personal preference but I chose the plasma due to the great PQ reviews. But at times, I feel like I'm not enjoying my TV to the fullest extent due to IR/burn in fears. When I see a static logo or ticker, I change the channel. I'm constantly changing the zoom levels so that there are no side bars. I cut my gaming sessions short. Etc... I would love some opinions.
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post #813 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 08:12 AM
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I understand your fear but reading these forums can cause undo and unreasonable anxiety. The advice given can be excellent. I admit to following much of it...but when following the advice for questionable nuisance issues to the point of impacting your enjoyment, you then need to step back and reassess. If you enjoy gaming, then play. Not playing when you enjoy because of IR fears is like not golfing because of fear of losing a ball. I'm not saying this is any demeaning sense. We all can easily get caught up in a web of unrealistic, self created fears. If such a problem arises, deal with it at the time. Cheers.
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post #814 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by el_teduardo View Post

Well it's been 2 months and my ordeal with my buzzing PN58C8000 has finally come to an end. Hopefully this information will help fill in some missing information to everyone who's been dealing with this issue.

Now I'm not an engineer but I truly believe it's the inductor coils making that noise.

...

So if I had to guess, the inductor coils are vibrating and it's resonating with the glass that's then acting like an amplifier projecting the sound directly forward. From what I've read Samsung removed a sheet of glass from the design to reduce the depth, and combine that with the need to compress all the components as close as possible to fit it into that frame. So the basic design is flawed, at least in my opinion. The QC rep even tried installing rubber washers between the circuit boards and metal frame but that also did nothing to reduce the buzz.

...

And in case you're wondering how my journey ended - the 58VT25 doesn't look so bad in my setup.

WOW. Great information!

That really makes a lot of sense on why the buzzing is directional, etc and why some people think the buzzing is similar to the noise their computer, etc makes since many things have similar coils. (I bet 2 coils at those distances apart and behind the screen is causing it to be more directional.)

Hopefully all your work will pay off and maybe there won't be a "2011 Samsung Plasma Buzz" thread. (Although if this was just determined recently it probably won't be "fixed" till 2012...)

(To others: I quoted just a few pieces to make the reply shorter. Make sure you read the entire original post. It's the best info I've seen since I started watching this thread many months ago.)
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post #815 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el_teduardo View Post

Well it's been 2 months and my ordeal with my buzzing PN58C8000 has finally come to an end. Hopefully this information will help fill in some missing information to everyone who's been dealing with this issue.

Now I'm not an engineer but I truly believe it's the inductor coils making that noise.

So if I had to guess, the inductor coils are vibrating and it's resonating with the glass that's then acting like an amplifier projecting the sound directly forward.

So if you're reading this and considering getting one of the remaining 2010 models or one of the new 2011's, please proceed with caution and make sure your store has a good return policy.

And in case you're wondering how my journey ended - the 58VT25 doesn't look so bad in my setup.

This post should be a sticky at the top of every page (and on the 2011 Samsung Plasma Buzz thread, the 2012 Samsung Plasma Buzz thread, etc.). I've been following the buzz thread for TWO YEARS and the situation hasn't changed, and Samsung has failed to find a fix. The theory put forth here is by far the most credible - a combo of inductors and glass panel speakers. The terrible thing is, this theory was presented two years ago to Samsung, and they did nothing.
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post #816 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Barometer View Post

This post should be a sticky at the top of every page (and on the 2011 Samsung Plasma Buzz thread, the 2012 Samsung Plasma Buzz thread, etc.). I've been following the buzz thread for TWO YEARS and the situation hasn't changed, and Samsung has failed to find a fix. The theory put forth here is by far the most credible - a combo of inductors and glass panel speakers.

I totally agree... Maybe "el_teduardo" or someone can PM "RomeSC" or an Admin to see if he/she can change the first post in this thread to at least link to that post. (Looks like RomeSC's last activity was on 08-29-10 09:28 PM though...)

Need to spread the word on this one...
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post #817 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barometer View Post

This post should be a sticky at the top of every page (and on the 2011 Samsung Plasma Buzz thread, the 2012 Samsung Plasma Buzz thread, etc.). I've been following the buzz thread for TWO YEARS and the situation hasn't changed, and Samsung has failed to find a fix. The theory put forth here is by far the most credible - a combo of inductors and glass panel speakers. The terrible thing is, this theory was presented two years ago to Samsung, and they did nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdellar17 View Post

I totally agree... Maybe "el_teduardo" or someone can PM "RomeSC" or an Admin to see if he/she can change the first post in this thread to at least link to that post. (Looks like RomeSC's last activity was on 08-29-10 09:28 PM though...)

Need to spread the word on this one...

Perhaps el_teduardo can start a new post that can be stickied? This is a good synopsis that actually involves Samsung manufacturing reps.

The theory of a resonant coupling between the coils and front film/glass (as well as the back panel) was mentioned in last year's thread. There was a fix initiated in Germany to remove a coil and add some small rubber blocks to dampen the vibration off the back panel.



Here were some posts that included pics..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post17658399

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post17692337

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17703404
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post #818 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 01:55 PM
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That rubber block fix wouldn't do anything. The buzz was the same with the back panel completely removed at that appointment.

There are other homegrown "solutions" I've found to fixing coil noise but I'd rather people find that on their own as I don't want to give suggestions that would possibly damage their TV's and would definitely void a warranty. But if you look up images of inductor coils many of them are wrapped or shielded, whereas the ones on the TVs are exposed.

And it's been a while since I was doing the research on coil noise, but I recall one article stating that inductor coils mounted on the same plane could enhance the resonant frequency phenomenon. All 3 on the Samsungs are on the same plane, and the 2 on the left board are right next to each other.
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post #819 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 02:46 PM
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Yup. The rubber blocks were used to mechanically dampen the resonance on the back panel on previous models. The resonance on the front film would require a different solution. Covering the coils with an epoxy has been suggested. Samsung really needs to figure this out so people aren't inclined to attempt their own fixes.
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post #820 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 05:02 PM
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I thought mine didn't buzz but on a really quite day in the house I was running the break in DVD and i was standing behind the TV set and indeed it was buzzing.

The buzz was definitely louder when an all white picture was displayed and you can clearly hear it get quieter and quieter as the pictures went from white, light grey, dark grey and black. Oh it's a sammy 6400 50 inch plasma

Definitely inaudible even at low speaker volume. The TV was made in November 2010 so its pretty new.

I hope it doesn't get louder. A think this is just the nature of plasma TV's to buzz. I haven't read all the theories on this thread yet but if you ever get a chance go look at some youtube videos of people putting grapes split in half into microwaves, which productes plasma, you can hear the buzzing from the microwave as the plasma is generated!
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post #821 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el_teduardo View Post
When I met with the QC rep in November he acknowledged hearing the buzz from 15' away in our living room.

They indicated they are working to resolve this issue for future models, but considering the 2011's will likely be unveiled at CES next week it's doubtful any improvements have been made. We shall see.
The '11 Samsung plasmas will be unveiled at CES 6 - 9 Jan.

AFAIK, for there to be an improvement of this type, the manufacturer needs to work on it quite early in the development cycle.
By the time you met the QC rep., the '11s had, almost surely, already been finalized (or, at most, a few details to go), and about to go to production.

The only way the '11s will be have much less or no buzzing, is if they had already fixed it, by the time you talked to the QC rep.; but he wasn't authorized to tell you.
My guess is he was being honest with you, and 'they are working on a fix', thus no fix for '11; I hope I'm wrong, though.
It wouldn't surprise me, because they did nothing from the '09s to the '10s.
Almost surely, what they aren't telling you is, that they want to fix it, but only within the context of their sleek design.
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post #822 of 994 Old 12-28-2010, 10:20 PM
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I have a 2009 model (B850) with the directional buzz problem. I've known about the buzz the whole time but normally it doesn't bother us since the TV is mounted higher so we don't hear the buzz at our viewing locations.

Just before the warranty expired, I submitted a service request because it is clearly a substantial noise problem and I would prefer it to be fixed in case we ever reconfigure the room or try to sell the TV. The repair service sounded like they knew about this problem and believed the panel needed to be replaced. They are supposed to come out Thursday.

But now I'm reconsidering since it will be a major pain to unmount/remount it, and it sounds like the odds are not that good that the repair will even work. Plus I'm worried about making things worse since the buzzing normally doesn't really matter for us.

How risky is this type of repair (replacing the panel)? What do I need to check once the new panel is installed to make sure I don't end up with something worse (i.e., bad pixels, etc.).

Thanks.
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post #823 of 994 Old 12-29-2010, 08:18 AM
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Would coating the coils with epoxy really work? Would there be any undesirable side effects? This sounds like a viable solution, but if it were really this simple I would think Samsung would already be doing this on service calls, or producing new generation boards with this mod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

Yup. The rubber blocks were used to mechanically dampen the resonance on the back panel on previous models. The resonance on the front film would require a different solution. Covering the coils with an epoxy has been suggested. Samsung really needs to figure this out so people aren't inclined to attempt their own fixes.

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post #824 of 994 Old 12-29-2010, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by xxrockmanxneoxx View Post

I just received my TV as well PN58c7000. Right now I do not have any devices connected to it besides running the slides on a flash drive and its connected to a power conditioner (Belkin PF30). I can hear the buzzing even past 10 feet. I have not yet had a tech come out. My TV is mounted on the wall

Same setup here currently (breaking in only right now). Just rec'd 58C7000 today (build date Nov-2010). The TV is setup off to the side with no devices connected to it yet (just running the break-in slides). As I was checking it out and running thru some of the settings...it hit me to check for the dreaded buzzzzz. Well yes I hear buzz!! Seems to be decently audible.

Can't tell how bad it might be since it's still not in it's final location and no video source connected yet. So I will have to get things settled and test more. I hate that we all have to deal with this on such a beautiful TV set.

Also strange if you change menus or settings at times the buzz goes away for split second while you're changing. Haven't done thorough testing but that seems to be the case. Maybe that supports some of the theories already posted.
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post #825 of 994 Old 12-30-2010, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jcrizzy View Post

Same setup here currently (breaking in only right now). Just rec'd 58C7000 today (build date Nov-2010). The TV is setup off to the side with no devices connected to it yet (just running the break-in slides). As I was checking it out and running thru some of the settings...it hit me to check for the dreaded buzzzzz. Well yes I hear buzz!! Seems to be decently audible.

Can't tell how bad it might be since it's still not in it's final location and no video source connected yet. So I will have to get things settled and test more. I hate that we all have to deal with this on such a beautiful TV set.

Also strange if you change menus or settings at times the buzz goes away for split second while you're changing. Haven't done thorough testing but that seems to be the case. Maybe that supports some of the theories already posted.

I'm pretty sure they all buzz, but I will have an opportunity to test this on Monday. Amazon is going to deliver a replacement for my 58" C6500. I will post a followup and tell you what I hear.
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post #826 of 994 Old 12-30-2010, 08:55 AM
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I'm pretty sure they all buzz, but I will have an opportunity to test this on Monday. Amazon is going to deliver a replacement for my 58" C6500. I will post a followup and tell you what I hear.
Great..please post how your replacement buzz sounds. From previous exchanges...seems they all will buzz to some degree and getting a new set doesn't really help much. But I'm still debating trying to do exchange (Amazon) and roll the dice for a better buzz.
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post #827 of 994 Old 12-30-2010, 09:15 AM
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Great..please post how your replacement buzz sounds. From previous exchanges...seems they all will buzz to some degree and getting a new set doesn't really help much. But I'm still debating trying to do exchange (Amazon) and roll the dice for a better buzz.
I hope Amazon doesn't turn around and resell my return to you ;-)

I'm pretty sure they list them under "Warehouse deals" actually.

It really stinks that we have to do this return dance. If the new one buzzes as I expect, I will probably keep the LG550 instead.

Funny thing is, I can't hear the Samsung buzz at all (or very slightly). In fact, to my ears, the LG buzz is louder, but my sons can easily hear the Samsung buzz and they tell me they while they can hear the LG buzz, it is not so bad as to be distracting, but that the Samsung buzz has a different quality that is really loud and annoying. I think there is a high and low frequency component to the buzz and I can only hear the low. Apparently the higher part is worse and is very directional.
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post #828 of 994 Old 12-30-2010, 01:22 PM
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Got a PN63C8000 (manu 11/2010) a couple of days ago from Amazon. No buzzing detected even from my very concerned wife. Yesterday after installing the ferrite core, I did have a noticeable buzz for about two seconds after plugging in the TV. I have not heard anything since, but I do not think I will ever unplug the TV again
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post #829 of 994 Old 12-30-2010, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jcrizzy View Post

Great..please post how your replacement buzz sounds. From previous exchanges...seems they all will buzz to some degree and getting a new set doesn't really help much. But I'm still debating trying to do exchange (Amazon) and roll the dice for a better buzz.

Originally Amazon sent me two Samsung pn58c7000 (both with build date: March 2010). I called and got both of them exchanged. I just got both of them today and the build date was November 2010. They still buzz but much better than before. The results are: One has less buzz and one has buzz that is quieter than original. So both of them are much better than what I originally got. They were audible buzzers at 10ft. Now one is audible at 2ft and can hardly tell after that. The other one is audible at 10ft but you have to concentrate out the noise from the refrigerator and other fans. It isn't going to get any better so I'm satisfied with the exchange. It's like russian roullette but with large Plasmas.
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post #830 of 994 Old 12-31-2010, 12:32 AM
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The samsung pn50c490 i just got on 12/30 has a buzz =[[[[[


it is so annoying lol! and is it just me, but because of that buzz you also get imaginary buzzing inside your head too because you keep thinking about the buzz in the tv ahaha. i can hear it from 10 feet still blahh...oh well..there's no more in stock to exchange, and i might a a worst set.love the tv. HATE THE BUZZ >=/

and i do not know how to fix it and call a repair person won't don anything i think
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post #831 of 994 Old 12-31-2010, 07:20 AM
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I've got the buzz too, BUT WHILE THE SET IS OFF!!

What's up with that?!

- Barry
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post #832 of 994 Old 12-31-2010, 07:42 AM
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I've got the buzz too, BUT WHILE THE SET IS OFF!!

What's up with that?!

Brain damage from being buzzed too long? ;-)
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post #833 of 994 Old 01-02-2011, 11:45 AM
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I was shopping for a new plasma to replace a VT25 that I returned due to buzzing. I was walking around the showroom at a smaller TV store, which was pretty quiet, and as I was walking around the room I was surprised by how loudly a 58" Samsung C6400 was buzzing. It was clearly audible from 25 feet away. It was a May 2010 build. I'm not sure what I'm going to buy now.

The C7000 they had on display wasn't buzzing at all. I guess it is just hit or miss...
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post #834 of 994 Old 01-02-2011, 03:38 PM
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I was shopping for a new plasma to replace a VT25 that I returned due to buzzing. I was walking around the showroom at a smaller TV store, which was pretty quiet, and as I was walking around the room I was surprised by how loudly a 58" Samsung C6400 was buzzing. It was clearly audible from 25 feet away. It was a May 2010 build. I'm not sure what I'm going to buy now.

The C7000 they had on display wasn't buzzing at all. I guess it is just hit or miss...

Wow, so you saw a 6400 and a 7000 in the same store and the 6400 was buzzing very loudly and you could not hear the 7000? This is very significant data in my opinion, because I have found that some people just can't hear the buzz due to hearing ability. Clearly you have good ears, and still found a 7000 to be quiet. Nice. So there is hope.
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post #835 of 994 Old 01-02-2011, 04:07 PM
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That info. is nothing new; there is variance of buzzing from sample to sample, in addition to room acoustics, tv placement, viewer's seating, and hearing ability.
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post #836 of 994 Old 01-02-2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

Would coating the coils with epoxy really work? Would there be any undesirable side effects? This sounds like a viable solution, but if it were really this simple I would think Samsung would already be doing this on service calls, or producing new generation boards with this mod.

I'm not aware of any downsides to epoxy potting or why Samsung does not employ it during manufacturing or as an in-the-field fix. Panasonic apparently has such a fix (see the post below from the G25 owner's thread). Based on the anecdotal reports here and the relative post-counts of the 2009 and 2010 buzz threads, it does appear Samsung has mitigated the buzzing in this year's models.

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Originally Posted by MrKegFlex View Post

The TV repairman just replaced my boards a few minutes ago to fix the buzzing. Not sure if this was covered in a previous post but the coils on the old boards have this clear coating on them, the new boards have the coils covered in this grey coating gooped all over them. TV repairman said the way they did the coil coating on the old boards is how they were done on the previous models, they have just had trouble with the G20/G25 causing the coils to vibrate with that coating. He also mentioned that Panasonic is trying to steer away from the board replacement and is already showing them what coating material to buy so they can fix the boards directly. The only problem is that the coating material requires 24 hours drying time and 2 trips for the repairman.

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post #837 of 994 Old 01-02-2011, 05:37 PM
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I've read a few pages about the buzz.

?did Mr. Samsung have a response here on this forum?

this would indicate good or poor customer service.

I also think that sales people are instructed to never admit the buzz even exzists I can tell when someone is lieing to me.

my pn58c500 is suposed to be delivered jan-4 if it buzz's I'll keep it for the NFL playoffs then it will be returned.
I would to prefer to keep it.

 

Samsung PN58C500/Amp: Yamaha RX-V465/Polk DSW1KProSub/DefTECH SM450/C1CC/Pro80/Sony BPX37 BD/Magnavox515HTPC-CPU: I3 550, 3.2 GHz/Mobo: Intel H57/RAM: 6GB DDR3 1333/HDD: 1TB/2TB Internal, 1TB external/Tuner: 1600-950 Haupague/W7 64 OS Remote: Harmony 700
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post #838 of 994 Old 01-02-2011, 06:32 PM
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Wow, so you saw a 6400 and a 7000 in the same store and the 6400 was buzzing very loudly and you could not hear the 7000? This is very significant data in my opinion, because I have found that some people just can't hear the buzz due to hearing ability. Clearly you have good ears, and still found a 7000 to be quiet. Nice. So there is hope.

The 6400 was crazy loud - from 25 or 30 feet away - i was almost impressed, but in a bad sort of way.
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post #839 of 994 Old 01-05-2011, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by desertsilver View Post

Assuming that the 2011 Samsung plasma's will be announced at CES next week, any idea when they may be in retail stores?

I purchased my 58C8000 at Best Buy and tried to do an exchange due to buzzing. Their system wouldn't allow any new orders of this same set for the exchange (policy due to backorders) so the manager made a note on my purchase that they would allow me until end of February to do an exchange, to allow time for the set to become available.

A side question I have is...is the UN55C8000 LED/LCD that bad compared to the plasma? I realize it's all personal preference but I chose the plasma due to the great PQ reviews. But at times, I feel like I'm not enjoying my TV to the fullest extent due to IR/burn in fears. When I see a static logo or ticker, I change the channel. I'm constantly changing the zoom levels so that there are no side bars. I cut my gaming sessions short. Etc... I would love some opinions.

I have the 8000 LED and it loses pic quality drastically when moving a hair off of dead ctr. THEY ARE TERRIBLE FOR VEIWING FROM OTHER THAN DEAD ON CTR. Also, my opinion is edge lighting is TERRIBLE. I am getting a plasma today. I hate the LED so bad I'm taking a loss (only 5mths old) and going w/taking a chance w/a Sammy 7000 or 8000 plasma. I will be ck'ing for buzz.
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post #840 of 994 Old 01-05-2011, 05:46 AM
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Speaking of checking for buzz, has anyone gotten one of the quiet "non-buzzers" only to have the buzz manifest later???
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