Samsung PNXXc550 Owners Thread *NO PRICE TALK* - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2810 Old 07-09-2010, 11:41 AM
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I know the topic has been beat to death, but what specifically doesn't work about the CS. People have reported all kinds of phenomenon (sp?) that seem different from each other. Then some people say it works! For 500s converted into 590s, what happens and can it be tolerated.

Al specifically, what do you experience with CS on? I really hate judder.

See this thread for positive comments: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1260582
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post #542 of 2810 Old 07-09-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I know the topic has been beat to death, but what specifically doesn't work about the CS. People have reported all kinds of phenomenon (sp?) that seem different from each other. Then some people say it works! For 500s converted into 590s, what happens and can it be tolerated.

Al specifically, what do you experience with CS on? I really hate judder.

See this thread for positive comments: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1260582

Well the from my experiences you won't like it on the Samsung C590 then, unless I have a bad BD player/bad HDDVD player/bad TV, what I see is jerky motion when the camera pans across a scene... nothing takes you away from the movie experience faster then unexpected picture anomalies!

CS only becomes available when you feed the TV 24p, and even then you have the option to have CS 'on' so at least you can decide if you want to use it or not.

BTW, I looked at the thread, voted too, but would be interesting is to choose a movie that is 24p and compare the same scene across set-ups.

My quick vote would be for the HDDVD version of Atonement, just after the title credits the camera pans across the room to the young girl typing, the picture is jumpy until it stops moving when it reaches her, when I turn off CS, smooth as silk.

My guess is that we would need a Bluray movie though...

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post #543 of 2810 Old 07-09-2010, 08:27 PM
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I think I may have changed two settings in the service menu under options.
Type 50FArv4
and TOC black
I was messing around with those 2 settings and am not sure I put them back to the way they were.
I was thinking about changing tv to C590, but don't think I want to after this.
The tv is the 50C550. US version.
I know I should have written them down, so I have no excuse.

Thanks for any info
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post #544 of 2810 Old 07-09-2010, 11:52 PM
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If anyone is interested, this Tv just earned consumer reports best buy for 54" and over models.
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post #545 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 02:45 PM
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so this tv can accept 24p content but WITH judder?
can it do 3:3 or 4:4 or is some 2:3 pulldown stuff.

I'm really confused and about to just not case anymore.
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post #546 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdajr View Post

so this tv can accept 24p content but WITH judder?
can it do 3:3 or 4:4 or is some 2:3 pulldown stuff.

I'm really confused and about to just not case anymore.

The C550 does not has native 24p support, the C590 does... the C550 will perform 3:2 pulldown and display 24p content at 60Hz.

Now this is not to say you can't 'tweak' your C500 to be a C590 to get access to native 24p support.

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post #547 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

The C550 does not has native 24p support, the C590 does... the C550 will perform 3:2 pulldown and display 24p content at 60Hz.

Now this is not to say you can't 'tweak' your C500 to be a C590 to get access to native 24p support.

I see. So basically set the ps3 to not use 24p and I save myself the trouble.

Unless I do what you just mentioned. But then that confuses more. Is native 24p support dependent on software or hardware?
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post #548 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdajr View Post

I see. So basically set the ps3 to not use 24p and I save myself the trouble.

Unless I do what you just mentioned. But then that confuses more. Is native 24p support dependent on software or hardware?

Hey just getting back to this thread after awhile. Catching up on posts. I have ps3 slim and use the 24p setting and I have no problems whatsoever with blus or hd dvds with panning or anything else. Love my PN58C550. Great buy. MUCH better than last years PN58B550.
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post #549 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdajr View Post

I see. So basically set the ps3 to not use 24p and I save myself the trouble.

Unless I do what you just mentioned. But then that confuses more. Is native 24p support dependent on software or hardware?

Regarding the PS3, exactly, for games I don't think it would matter, but if you are using it for movies as well and want 24p, that is another story.

As for these sets and the support for 24p: the hardware (chipset) has to be in the TV and in this case it is and is controlled (turned on/off) by the firmware. Cinema Smooth is likely part of a chipset that is needed for this entire family of TV's, features are determined by model number (cost) and provided accordingly.

For the C550 the hardware is there but due to the model type not activated in the firmware, where as in the C590 the firmware has been told to turn it on.

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post #550 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post

Hey just getting back to this thread after awhile. Catching up on posts. I have ps3 slim and use the 24p setting and I have no problems whatsoever with blus or hd dvds with panning or anything else. Love my PN58C550. Great buy. MUCH better than last years PN58B550.

good to know. I just wish this whole 24p stuff was a bit more consistent. It just seems all over the map with what tv's do what.
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post #551 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Regarding the PS3, exactly, for games I don't think it would matter, but if you are using it for movies as well and want 24p, that is another story.

As for these sets and the support for 24p: the hardware (chipset) has to be in the TV and in this case it is and is controlled (turned on/off) by the firmware. Cinema Smooth is likely part of a chipset that is needed for this entire family of TV's, features are determined by model number (cost) and provided accordingly.

For the C550 the hardware is there but due to the model type not activated in the firmware, where as in the C590 the firmware has been told to turn it on.

I'm a little confused about what you're saying here. I have a C550 and when I put a blu on my TV tells me it is operating at 24p. Are you saying it's not? Is CS something else that works with 24p? Little confused. Thanks.
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post #552 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Regarding the PS3, exactly, for games I don't think it would matter, but if you are using it for movies as well and want 24p, that is another story.

As for these sets and the support for 24p: the hardware (chipset) has to be in the TV and in this case it is and is controlled (turned on/off) by the firmware. Cinema Smooth is likely part of a chipset that is needed for this entire family of TV's, features are determined by model number (cost) and provided accordingly.

For the C550 the hardware is there but due to the model type not activated in the firmware, where as in the C590 the firmware has been told to turn it on.

so realistically, what are my risks in messing with the firmware? I got a 4 year warranty with best buy and I hate for it to go to waste. I'm going to assume they don't care compared to samsung though.

Plus is it even worth it?
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post #553 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post

Hey just getting back to this thread after awhile. Catching up on posts. I have ps3 slim and use the 24p setting and I have no problems whatsoever with blus or hd dvds with panning or anything else. Love my PN58C550. Great buy. MUCH better than last years PN58B550.

I agree, I am very happy with my set as well. As for 24p from the PS3 and the C550, the TV will perform 3:2 pulldown and the image will be displayed at 60Hz without a problem. The problem with 24p is when the TV tries to display it at 24p , ie. Cinema Smooth.

See my post #542 above, I mention this point exactly.

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post #554 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jmdajr View Post

so realistically, what are my risks in messing with the firmware?

I dont' see the point. I did a lot of reading about doing that and all I have read is that after doing so and enabling CS, people have problems. I'd leave it as it is especially if you are happy with it.
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post #555 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdajr View Post

so realistically, what are my risks in messing with the firmware?

You are not really 'messing with the firmware' but rather telling the set to run as if it were a different model, for example a C590 instead of a C550. You can always go back in and set it back to run as a C550.

There should be no problem with this unless you choose a model that has hardware that is not in the C5x0 series, but from a C550 -> C590 this has been done by a number of people without issue.

Remember all you really gain is Cinema Smooth (24p native support) and the 2 calibration settings of Cal Day and Cal Night.

You have to decide if you need any of this.

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post #556 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

I agree, I am very happy with my set as well. As for 24p from the PS3 and the C550, the TV will perform 3:2 pulldown and the image will be displayed at 60Hz without a problem. The problem with 24p is when the TV tries to display it at 24p , ie. Cinema Smooth.

See my post #542 above, I mention this point exactly.

so...... what's better? let the tv do the conversion, or the blu ray player?

meaning, and if I understand right, all motion picture blu rays are 24p.

so either the ps3 converts it to display at 60hz, or the tv converts it to 60hz (if I set ps3 to 24p)

but neither option is native 24p unless I turn on in the firmware, and even then it doesn't look so hot you say? does the native 24p mode run at 48hz or something?

sorry for making it such an issue, I just need to be informed about what I'm really dealing with.
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post #557 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Remember all you really gain is Cinema Smooth (24p native support) and the 2 calibration settings of Cal Day and Cal Night.

I did the service menu trick a while back and turned my C550 into a C590, but i can't seem to find the cal day and cal night settings. All I see in the picture settings menu is dynamic, standard, and movie modes. Where are cal day and cal night modes located? I know i did it correctly because i have enabled the Cinema Smooth option.
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post #558 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 05:45 PM
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Love my 58" C590 (formerly C550) plays great 24p and up until now has zero judder.
The only time I had an issue was when my Blu Ray needed a firmware update to play a newer movie.

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post #559 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 05:59 PM
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have any of you compared this tv to the g20 from panasonic?
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post #560 of 2810 Old 07-11-2010, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post

I'm a little confused about what you're saying here. I have a C550 and when I put a blu on my TV tells me it is operating at 24p. Are you saying it's not? Is CS something else that works with 24p? Little confused. Thanks.

Actually the number you see is telling you that the incoming signal is 24p, not that the set is operating at 24p (which these sets never actually do).

CS is designed to handle 24p without doing a 3:2 pulldown, it actually does this by using 4x the 24p and uses 96Hz...IIRC

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post #561 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 12:20 AM
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I have been thinking of getting this set due to a very low price for the size. Gamers!? What do you think of this set? Also, How would everyone rate the overall PQ of this set? Plan on getting the 58. I could get the 63 but I'd rather get a stand and sound system as well.
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post #562 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

I have been thinking of getting this set due to a very low price for the size. Gamers!? What do you think of this set? Also, How would everyone rate the overall PQ of this set? Plan on getting the 58. I could get the 63 but I'd rather get a stand and sound system as well.

Continued from the LCD input lag topic.

I actually had the lag set to 40ms on my c450, even better to start.

I dropped it to 30ms and tried it on game mode and it felt off, I tried 16ms, still felt off, tried 40ms again, felt off, tried 0ms, it felt perfect. I switched game mode off, it didn't feel any different.... I was so shocked that I kept trying to reason it in my head and started missing notes due to distraction.

I need to test out the original NES super Mario Bros just to be safe (I speed run it, and some of it requires 1 frame of precision to make certain jumps without stopping)

The C550 series shouldn't be too different in terms of lag.

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post #563 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinal Tap View Post

Love my 58" C590 (formerly C550) plays great 24p and up until now has zero judder.
The only time I had an issue was when my Blu Ray needed a firmware update to play a newer movie.

Well great. I was determined not to activate this on my 63c550. Now I'm tempted again.
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post #564 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 05:43 AM
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Just to clarify, if you change the model number on the 550 to the 590, you get Cinema Smooth for 1080p/24. However, does it actually refresh at 96hz like the 590?
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post #565 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzy View Post

Just to clarify, if you change the model number on the 550 to the 590, you get Cinema Smooth for 1080p/24. However, does it actually refresh at 96hz like the 590?

the difference in price between the two sets is 100 bucks. So I'm thinking the 590 has no extra hardware to process the 24p. It's just a feature that's UNLOCKED.

I would like to know also if it's really doing 96hz since I read these TVs don't really have a 600hz refresh rate, it's just marketing.

also..is judder a defect of the tv doing pulldown, or a defect inherent in the actual 24p movie an dhow it's shot?
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post #566 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdajr View Post

the difference in price between the two sets is 100 bucks. So I'm thinking the 590 has no extra hardware to process the 24p. It's just a feature that's UNLOCKED.

I would like to know also if it's really doing 96hz since I read these TVs don't really have a 600hz refresh rate, it's just marketing.

also..is judder a defect of the tv doing pulldown, or a defect inherent in the actual 24p movie an dhow it's shot?


When you are operating the TV as a C590 it (of course) does what a C590 does, if that is displaying 24p through a method of 4x oversampling (4:4 pulldown) and then a panel display rate of 96Hz then that's is what you get.

I know it is 'quasi marketing' but the sub field drive of these TV's is indeed 600Hz and that is part of the reason motion artifacts are minimized or completely eliminated.

Judder, depends on whether CS is turned on, if it isn't then 'non smooth' motion is likely due to 3:2 pulldown, if CS is on (and working properly) the 'non smooth' motion would be due to how a 24p film captures motion.

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post #567 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

When you are operating the TV as a C590 it (of course) does what a C590 does, if that is displaying 24p through a method of 4x oversampling then back to the native panel display rate of 60Hz then that's is what you get.

I know it is 'quasi marketing' but the sub field drive of these TV's is indeed 600Hz and that is part of the reason motion artifacts are minimized or completely eliminated.

Judder, depends on whether CS is turned on, if it isn't then 'non smooth' motion is likely due to 3:2 pulldown, if CS is on (and working properly) the 'non smooth' motion would be due to how a 24p film captures motion.

I still don't see how it would work with 60hz. I thought it would have to be divisible by 24, like 48, 72, or 96

also how is it important to BREAK IN the TV. I have never owned a Plasma and know NOTHING about this.
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post #568 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flip808 View Post

I did the service menu trick a while back and turned my C550 into a C590, but i can't seem to find the cal day and cal night settings. All I see in the picture settings menu is dynamic, standard, and movie modes. Where are cal day and cal night modes located? I know i did it correctly because i have enabled the Cinema Smooth option.

Cal Day and Cal Night will only be seen in the regular menu if you specifically turned this option on while in the service menu, just changing the model from a C550 to C590 won't add these presets.

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post #569 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 07:08 AM
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Hey Al, is there anything in the service menu that makes the speakers do a decent job

SKID
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post #570 of 2810 Old 07-12-2010, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdajr View Post

I still don't see how it would work with 60hz. I thought it would have to be divisible by 24, like 48, 72, or 96

also how is it important to BREAK IN the TV. I have never owned a Plasma and know NOTHING about this.

Sorry, I may has mislead you a bit with my explanation of 24p, the 4x oversampling that I talked about was describing the 4:4 pulldown, after which TV uses a 96Hz refresh rate for 24p signals, it doesn't convert this down to 60Hz.

I believe when CS is on then the set displays 24p at 96Hz refresh, when CS is off the you get a 3:2 pulldown of 24p displayed by the TV at 60Hz.

I corrected my post...

Break in occures naturally within the first 100 (or so) hours of plasma use, some people like to hurry this process along by playing 'break-in' material for 100 hours to complete ASAP, usually while they are not watching the TV. One theory is that after break in image retention is greatly reduced...

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