Official Panasonic TC-PxxVT20/25 Owners Thread NO PRICE TALK!! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 08:08 AM
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So I went to BB last night again and stared at the VT20 for another hour. It has a very impressive picture. Some line bleeding, but only on very bright backgrounds with dark text or graphics, which is a very very small portion of my overall TV viewing / gaming experience.

I spoke to the Magnolia guy regarding the rising black level issue and he said as far as he knows, Panasonic has not changed this so it should be expected with the VT20. However, when I told him that I was coming from an LCD set (Sony XBR4), he said that even the elevated black level on the VT20 would still be much darker than anything I ever got with the LCD Sony XBR4. Do you guys think that statement holds any water?
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post #452 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sry110 View Post

So I went to BB last night again and stared at the VT20 for another hour. It has a very impressive picture. Some line bleeding, but only on very bright backgrounds with dark text or graphics, which is a very very small portion of my overall TV viewing / gaming experience.

I spoke to the Magnolia guy regarding the rising black level issue and he said as far as he knows, Panasonic has not changed this so it should be expected with the VT20. However, when I told him that I was coming from an LCD set (Sony XBR4), he said that even the elevated black level on the VT20 would still be much darker than anything I ever got with the LCD Sony XBR4. Do you guys think that statement holds any water?

yes even after the rise the blacks should still be darker ( unless it is some crazy rise that occurs )
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post #453 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 12:46 PM
 
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I just got off the phone with panasonic and they sait the vt25`s do not have the rising black issue???? They are not out yet but how do we know if they are lying???? Why does not the vt25`s upconvert 2d to 3d like the samsung`s????
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post #454 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LORDLICH View Post

I just got off the phone with panasonic and they sait the vt25`s do not have the rising black issue???? They are not out yet but how do we know if they are lying???? Why does not the vt25`s upconvert 2d to 3d like the samsung`s????

What did you expect them to say that yes we have a blacklevel problem?
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post #455 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 12:51 PM
 
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What no honesty from an electronics company???
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post #456 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LORDLICH View Post

What no honesty from an electronics company???

Just think Toyota and I think you will have figured it out.

The only way we will know for sure is when they have been out in the market place for a while and the reports start flowing in which could be a year from now. I personally can't wait that long as my tv is dying a slow death but it should be 6ft under come July once it starts getting hot and can no longer cool it down. This new series is what I want and will probably buy and keep my fingers crossed. I am putting it in a room with 4 windows but lots of trees so it isn't to bright that much of the year. I am looking for very goof PQ and a tv that will last more than 5 years as this will be my 3rd in 10 years. I am not a videophile by any means however I do appreciate a very good picture and at the end of the day I just really want to watch tv and nothing else
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post #457 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by steverobertson View Post

Just think Toyota and I think you will have figured it out.

The only way we will know for sure is when they have been out in the market place for a while and the reports start flowing in which could be a year from now. I personally can't wait that long as my tv is dying a slow death but it should be 6ft under come July once it starts getting hot and can no longer cool it down. This new series is what I want and will probably buy and keep my fingers crossed. I am putting it in a room with 4 windows but lots of trees so it isn't to bright that much of the year. I am looking for very goof PQ and a tv that will last more than 5 years as this will be my 3rd in 10 years. I am not a videophile by any means however I do appreciate a very good picture and at the end of the day I just really want to watch tv and nothing else

I am in your camp, except my old TV is already dead and I need to purchase within the next few weeks. I think I am just going to jump in head first with the VT20 and take my chances. The PQ is pretty awesome, save for some line bleeding, and I will hope for the best regarding rising black levels. Regarding screen reflection, it did appear to have a much less reflective screen than all the other plasmas on display at the local Magnolia store. Not as dull as a matte finish LCD screen, but honestly there are only a few matte finish LCD's out now that I found (Sony XBR4, Sony EX500, Sony EX700) and IMO the picture quality of all those examples is junk on its own, let alone when compared to that of the VT20.

My theory: if it's bright and sunny outside, I should be outside, not inside watching tv. (I'll kick myself when it's 15 degrees, windy and sunny outside next winter....oh well!)
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post #458 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 02:41 PM
 
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Why won`t the panasonic upconvert to 3d like the samsungs???
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post #459 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 03:27 PM
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Anyone watched Comcast 3D broadcast of the Masters on the VT20? I had it recorded on my Tivo HD. When I played it back, I got about 3 seconds of 3D, then the 3D disengaged. Not sure if it's Comast, my Tivo, or my TV.
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post #460 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LORDLICH View Post

Why won`t the panasonic upconvert to 3d like the samsungs???

Because they didn't design it to do that.

If you want to know why Panasonic didn't design it to do so, you would need to ask them. Of course, I doubt they would give you an honest answer.

I don't think implementation would have been a problem, as Panasonic's native 3-D is already better than Samsung's. My educated guess is that probably felt the feature would not be good enough to use that much, thus making it a waste of money to implement.
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post #461 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Because they didn't design it to do that.

If you want to know why Panasonic didn't design it to do so, you would need to ask them. Of course, I doubt they would give you an honest answer.

I don't think implementation would have been a problem, as Panasonic's native 3-D is already better than Samsung's. My educated guess is that probably felt the feature would not be good enough to use that much, thus making it a waste of money to implement.

I tend to disagree since the 2D-to-3D conversion process--regardless of how refined the process is--would make the average consumer more likely to justify the cost of investing in a full-3D system (i.e., BD player and 1.4 hdmi reciever) if they see 3D being used more frequently than the dozen or so 3D movies that will be released this year.
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post #462 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 05:28 PM
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Is the initial black level much lower on the 2010 v series? Has anybody measured their blacks out of the box for what is curently available?
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post #463 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 11:29 PM
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Panasonic wrote me today and claimed I am the ONLY customer who has filed a case on this particular issue. Can that be true? I refuse to believe all you diligent scholars have grumbled on avs without making a single phone call to Panasonic tech support asking for an explanation?

Please, George. Say it ain't so.


In their first email, they suggested I de-active the C.A.T.S. feature. Grrr. I gave them a hard time about this and they are now asking me to video the issue for them. Wow, why don't you just send out a tech instead, guys? Here's their letter:

"Mr. W,

This is the only case reported by a customer.

However, we will request our product engineers revisit this issue.

We will keep you informed of any feedback they provide.

Again, a video of the issue you reported would be very beneficial to their investigation of this issue.

We look forward to receiving any information, video, or concise description of the issue you are willing to provide."
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post #464 of 10650 Old 04-13-2010, 11:33 PM
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Video (Panasonic plasma G20 - Floating Blacks):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrq95gvFaP4

Udo
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post #465 of 10650 Old 04-14-2010, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UofA fan View Post

Is the initial black level much lower on the 2010 v series? Has anybody measured their blacks out of the box for what is curently available?

I believe HDGuru measured the 50VT20 0.004fL. IIRC, Panasonic hosted the evaluation on site so no doubt it was a hand picked display. Your random retail model may be the same or a hair worse due to variances.
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post #466 of 10650 Old 04-14-2010, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by UdoG View Post

Video (Panasonic plasma G20 - Floating Blacks):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrq95gvFaP4

Udo

That would seriously ruin my day.
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post #467 of 10650 Old 04-14-2010, 08:43 AM
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So would it be a safe bet to assume that the 65" would be around .002 out of the box? If panasonic can fx this floating black issue i may end up getting a vt25 considering I just found out one of my old friends works at bb and can hook me up on a good price after they are released. Im going to be upgrading from a 42" 60u and the blacks suck majorly on it.
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post #468 of 10650 Old 04-14-2010, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LORDLICH View Post

Why won`t the panasonic upconvert to 3d like the samsungs???

I would like to see this effect first hand. With stereoscopic 3D you have to have 2 distinct camera angles in order to have enough info to make a lifelike 3D image. Likely they are using software to cut objects out of an image and shift them creating a pseudo 3D image. My guess is that it would look pretty cheesy, but I would like to see how it looks before I totally dismiss it.
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post #469 of 10650 Old 04-14-2010, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffwine03 View Post

Panasonic wrote me today and claimed I am the ONLY customer who has filed a case on this particular issue. Can that be true? I refuse to believe all you diligent scholars have grumbled on avs without making a single phone call to Panasonic tech support asking for an explanation?

Please, George. Say it ain't so.


In their first email, they suggested I de-active the C.A.T.S. feature. Grrr. I gave them a hard time about this and they are now asking me to video the issue for them. Wow, why don't you just send out a tech instead, guys? Here's their letter:

"Mr. W,

This is the only case reported by a customer.

However, we will request our product engineers revisit this issue.

We will keep you informed of any feedback they provide.

Again, a video of the issue you reported would be very beneficial to their investigation of this issue.

We look forward to receiving any information, video, or concise description of the issue you are willing to provide."

Jeff

Don't know if you followed their advice, but for the best picture, you should probably deactivate CATS plus all of the other video processing in the mode you are using. Most (ALL?) of this stuff only deteriorates picture quality.

David Freeman
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post #470 of 10650 Old 04-14-2010, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esp2684 View Post

I tend to disagree since the 2D-to-3D conversion process--regardless of how refined the process is--would make the average consumer more likely to justify the cost of investing in a full-3D system (i.e., BD player and 1.4 hdmi reciever) if they see 3D being used more frequently than the dozen or so 3D movies that will be released this year.

That premise assumes that the vast majority of people are buying TVs sight unseen. If they see a poor, fair, or average 2D-3D conversion, many will disregard that as a usable feature, IMHO. My point was even the best possible implementation, at this time, would probably be by Panasonic, yet, I surmise, that they still thought it wasn't good enough; while Samsung feels confident in it's implementation. Ultimately, the consumer will decide.

BTW, I don't even think Samsung's native 3-D holds a candle to Panasonic's 3-D, so I don't have much confidence in Samsung's 2D-3D; however, I haven't seen that feature in action, so I will reserve judgement for now.
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post #471 of 10650 Old 04-14-2010, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by UofA fan View Post

So would it be a safe bet to assume that the 65" would be around .002 out of the box?

No, not at all. Most probably the 58 and 65 will be at or very close to .004, like the 50 and 54. This year, there aren't planning on releasing these TVs so far apart in time, like last year, so I doubt they will improve them similarly. In fact, I don't think .002 is even possible with their current implementation of Plasma tech., which is only partially based on Pioneer Kuro, combined with Panasonic Viera.
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post #472 of 10650 Old 04-14-2010, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

BTW, I don't even think Samsung's native 3-D holds a candle to Panasonic's 3-D, so I don't have much confidence in Samsung's 2D-3D; however, I haven't seen that feature in action, so I will reserve judgement for now.

Have you seen the PNC7000 or 8000? If not, then you can't really make that call. The plasmas should have much better 3D than the LCDs.
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post #473 of 10650 Old 04-15-2010, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UdoG View Post

Video (Panasonic plasma G20 - Floating Blacks):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrq95gvFaP4

Udo

I don't see any problem with floating blacks...
Can my Ark do any help?


Noah
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post #474 of 10650 Old 04-15-2010, 07:30 AM
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The Operating Manual PDF for the 50" and 54" VT25 just became available for download:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER.../TCP50VT25.PDF

Probably not a big deal since the 50VT20 manual has been out for a while now, but they put the manual online right before the TVs start shipping so now buyers will finally be able to buy a VT from someone other than the evil Best Buy, and in a 54" size too.

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post #475 of 10650 Old 04-15-2010, 08:49 AM
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3D Masters coverage is available on Comcast On Demand under HD Content - Sports.
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post #476 of 10650 Old 04-15-2010, 08:53 AM
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AirLink101 AWLL6075 Wireless LAN Adapter does not work on this TV.
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post #477 of 10650 Old 04-15-2010, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgould77 View Post

I would like to see this effect first hand. With stereoscopic 3D you have to have 2 distinct camera angles in order to have enough info to make a lifelike 3D image. Likely they are using software to cut objects out of an image and shift them creating a pseudo 3D image. My guess is that it would look pretty cheesy, but I would like to see how it looks before I totally dismiss it.

It's a matter of personal preference, to me it's great. Don't buy a 3D set without giving it a good look. Sightly better PQ (a matter of opinion) vs being able to watch everything in 3D, well you know which I picked.
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post #478 of 10650 Old 04-16-2010, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The Operating Manual PDF for the 50" and 54" VT25 just became available for download:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER.../TCP50VT25.PDF

Probably not a big deal since the 50VT20 manual has been out for a while now, but they put the manual online right before the TVs start shipping so now buyers will finally be able to buy a VT from someone other than the evil Best Buy, and in a 54" size too.

I thought from previous reading that the VT25's would have ISFcc capability. But, I can't find anything about it in the manual.
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post #479 of 10650 Old 04-16-2010, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

I thought from previous reading that the VT25's would have ISFcc capability. But, I can't find anything about it in the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

I thought from previous reading that the VT25's would have ISFcc capability. But, I can't find anything about it in the manual.

I think ISFcc is only intended for use by an ISF Calibrator, which would explain why it's not in the User Manual.

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post #480 of 10650 Old 04-16-2010, 08:07 AM
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Anyone know if the VT25 is black or if it is silver like the VT20?
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