Official Panasonic TC-PxxVT20/25 Owners Thread NO PRICE TALK!! - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by fcatwo View Post

I think we hold these people to too high a standard. It's probably not realistic to expect a BB sales person (or any other) to know everything about everything they sell. My experience with sales people in general is that if they have received training at all it is "selling" training. Some are curious about what they sell but many are not. Their first emphasis is to figure out what you want and sell you one of those. If you don't already know what you want they will probably lead you over to the LCD wall where the bright screens are. I suppose the BB people lurking here will be insulted by my opinion but they need to know that there is no way they can match expertise with someone who has been researching one TV for several months. I once talked to a college student who was spending the summer leading National Park nature walks and she said she occassionally had a college professor or other expert on a walk who's aim seemed to be making her look stupid. She finally started asking her groups if there was anyone with environmental expertise and could use them to her advantage.

Dpon't blame the individual; blame the corporate system. The company has decided to spend as little as possible on employee compensation. So full time professionals who have great product knowledge will not be hired as the pay is not enough. Best Buy is a "grab and go" store. So do your homework and grab and go.
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post #632 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 09:49 AM
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So close now! Question is do I go with a 54" that fits just fine on the wall or go with the 58" that is a bit too big for the space above my fireplace, such that it will slightly block a window.

Decisions, decisions....

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post #633 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by terminaldawn View Post

So is this floating black issue real or a farce?

I will be deciding between a Sammy pn63c8000 or the panny 65 vt25. There doesnt seem to be a slam dunk winner of what will be the best set because Samsung = buzzz | Panny = rising and floating blacks.

I assume that black level between Samsung and Panasonic will be comparable due to rising blacks, so IMO panny has nothing over the competition as far as black level goes.

With Samsung buzzing issue it is only on some sets and it DOESnt affect Picture Quality. Floating blacks on the other hand do.

So again I ask, floating black, a Real issue or a farce? And if Real, why would anyone accept this level of quality? It seems like it should be a deal breaker for anyone?

Unless the c8000 is a dramatic improvement over the c7000, the VT Panasonic blacks will still be about twice as dark after the blacks triple.
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post #634 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Scot Kight View Post

So close now! Question is do I go with a 54" that fits just fine on the wall or go with the 58" that is a bit too big for the space above my fireplace, such that it will slightly block a window.

Decisions, decisions....

Id go with the 58", as I have never heard anyone say, "I wish I had a smaller tv". But you always hear someone say, " I wish I had a bigger tv."
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post #635 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post

Id go with the 58", as I have never heard anyone say, "I wish I had a smaller tv". But you always hear someone say, " I wish I had a bigger tv."

Bigger is always better if you have a wife that will complain it will stop after a while my wife complained about the 58 that I am getting rid of but now going to a 65 but she has already mader her point and I have made mine so she is over it LOL
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post #636 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 11:56 AM
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Bigger is always better if you have a wife that will complain it will stop after a while my wife complained about the 58 that I am getting rid of but now going to a 65 but she has already mader her point and I have made mine so she is over it LOL

I find that funny since my mother in law now is mad at me since I said I was going for a 65" VT25. She says its way to big and since I mentioned I was going to get a 65" VT25 plus next years new version 65" (or hopefully a 70") *crosses fingers and toes*

She is so furoius. I find the best way to deal with wifes and mother in laws is to tell them, "your my honey bun with a cherry on top"
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post #637 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post

I find that funny since my mother in law now is mad at me since I said I was going for a 65" VT25. She says its way to big and since I mentioned I was going to get a 65" VT25 plus next years new version 65" (or hopefully a 70") *crosses fingers and toes*

She is so furoius. I find the best way to deal with wifes and mother in laws is to tell them, "your my honey bun with a cherry on top"

Mother in-laws have NO say what so ever they should just go away
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post #638 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post

Id go with the 58", as I have never heard anyone say, "I wish I had a smaller tv". But you always hear someone say, " I wish I had a bigger tv."

+ 1 for sure....
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post #639 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 12:32 PM
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Well I just got back from my local BB. The rep I usually go to tried all kinds of ways to find the 58vt25 in the systems and nothing comes up. He also tried his EPP. They did get a 54" in late last week and have double tagged it in the back and are not going to put it out. I will have to remain patient.
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post #640 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 12:32 PM
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Oh believe me, I already have the 119" CRT setup in the basement. Bigger is better, the question now is how to make it physically work since this would overlap windows and their frames. If I can get around that we are in business...

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post #641 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Scot Kight View Post

Oh believe me, I already have the 119" CRT setup in the basement. Bigger is better, the question now is how to make it physically work since this would overlap windows and their frames. If I can get around that we are in business...

Rebuild the wall and get new windows
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post #642 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post

Id go with the 58", as I have never heard anyone say, "I wish I had a smaller tv". But you always hear someone say, " I wish I had a bigger tv."

That's what I am dealing with now. I've been planning for a 58" along a new wall with plenty of space. The stand is 65" long and my seating is 6'-10'. I just keep looking at the space and saying to myself, I probably should get the 65". I will probably get the 58" and say later, damn!-----should've--

I haven't even said anything to the wife yet about possibly more money being needed, if I do go the 65.
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post #643 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post

That's what I am dealing with now. I've been planning for a 58" along a new wall with plenty of space. The stand is 65" long and my seating is 6'-10'. I just keep looking at the space and saying to myself, I probably should get the 65". I will probably get the 58" and say later, damn!-----should've--

I haven't even said anything to the wife yet about possibly more money being needed, if I do go the 65.

As someone who is just leaving the 58 to a 65 go for it as you will always be pissed that you didn't at some point as I was. My wife really is pretty cool about it though she knows this is not a battle she will win so she says what she has to say and that's that except this time she has brought it up twice and I won't have the TV till Thursday so I am sure once she see's it she will have something else to say but I have selective hearing when it comes to this. Money is a whole differnt issue though I got a great deal on the V10 model and with my tv just about dead I couldn't wait for these any longer plus I would ahve been shot if I spent 4 k and she would have been right in doing that
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post #644 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Unless the c8000 is a dramatic improvement over the c7000, the VT Panasonic blacks will still be about twice as dark after the blacks triple.



yeah....the lowest measurement i saw for the samsung C7000 black level is .026fL.....the VT25 otoh has a black level of .004fL.......worst case scenario, the black levels on the VT25 QUADRUPLE to .016 that is still much better than the C7000 on its best day.....


We will see how much better the C8000 plasma is, but I would be shocked if it was at .016fL, let alone approach VT25 beginning level blacks......
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post #645 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post

Well I just got back from my local BB. The rep I usually go to tried all kinds of ways to find the 58vt25 in the systems and nothing comes up. He also tried his EPP. They did get a 54" in late last week and have double tagged it in the back and are not going to put it out. I will have to remain patient.

Yea, as of now there's no way to search for the 58 or 65. HawaiianBoy's and my MBM(Magnolia Brand Manager) gave us the SKUs. They ARE getable, you just need to know the SKU.
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post #646 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 04:57 PM
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yeah....the lowest measurement i saw for the samsung C7000 black level is .026fL.....the VT25 otoh has a black level of .004fL.......worst case scenario, the black levels on the VT25 QUADRUPLE to .016 that is still much better than the C7000 on its best day.....


We will see how much better the C8000 plasma is, but I would be shocked if it was at .016fL, let alone approach VT25 beginning level blacks......

Has there been a single Panasonic that has more than tripled?
If so, I missed it; please tell me.

If I am right, then tripling is .004 x 3 = .012.

BTW, it doesn't just double, triple, etc. For example CNET's test showed a 2.88x increase.
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post #647 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 06:45 PM
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(Tc-p50Vt20) Not passing 3:2 pulldown or noise-reduction is a disappointment. I hope they fix that. Otherwise, this seems to be the best 3D set that is currently available.
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post #648 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 08:52 PM
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Does anyone know how long BB has exclusivity selling the VT25's before other retailers get them. I bought a 58C8000 which I like and I'm sure it will fair a lot better compared to the C7000 (I can tell a difference). I'm still undecided on whether I'll keep the C8000 or return it and go with the 58" VT25?

I really like my set, but not sure the quality during 3D playback will fair as well as the Panny's...I'm anxiously awaiting some comparitive reviews...specifically the black adjustments with movies like M V A that have bars. The 2D quality is very nice..no complaints.
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post #649 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cubsh8r View Post

Does anyone know how long BB has exclusivity selling the VT25's before other retailers get them. I bought a 58C8000 which I like and I'm sure it will fair a lot better compared to the C7000 (I can tell a difference). I'm still undecided on whether I'll keep the C8000 or return it and go with the 58" VT25?

I really like my set, but not sure the quality during 3D playback will fair as well as the Panny's...I'm anxiously awaiting some comparitive reviews...specifically the black adjustments with movies like M V A that have bars. The 2D quality is very nice..no complaints.

I'm not sure if the following means that the exclusive period with BB is over or not, but my local Nebraska Furniture Mart has the 54" VT25 on display and for sale. Better still, they had all 4 SKU's in the system for the VT25. For those who have never heard of the place, it is pretty much the electronics juggernaut here in Nebraska (though they have expanded into Kansas City and Des Moines as well). At any rate, I ended up pre-ordering the 65" model and the estimated delivery date on my receipt is 6/26/10. They were apparently showing an initial shipment of 5 units of that size. Now, I had previously seen the 50" VT20 at the BB Magnolia in Denver, but the 54" VT25was really quite nice due to the added size. I spoke with a VERY knowledgable rep who told me that they just got it in the other day and confirmed that it was on the out-of-the-box settings, which I thought looked pretty impressive. Upon getting a closer look, I honestly didn't notice much of a difference in color due to the change in bezel, so I don't see it as a big issue at all for those who might be wondering. The demo disc was slightly different as well (I believe the differences in footage are discussed in another thread; this one had footage of volleyball, baseball, and soccer in slow motion), but still just as good as the other. They also had 3 in stock of the DMP-BDT350, so I purchased one of those but had them hold one until everything was in stock. June can't get here soon enough...

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post #650 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Has there been a single Panasonic that has more than tripled?
If so, I missed it; please tell me.

If I am right, then tripling is .004 x 3 = .012.

BTW, it doesn't just double, triple, etc. For example CNET's test showed a 2.88x increase.

I should have made it clear that was a "what if" example......

Realistically, the VT25 will at the very worst, triple and so the Samsung is not close at all to the Panny....that is, unless the C8000 is radically better with blacks than the C7000
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post #651 of 10650 Old 04-27-2010, 10:36 PM
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Does anyone know how long BB has exclusivity selling the VT25's before other retailers get them.

BB doesn't have an exclusive on the VT25 series; everybody will be able to sell them as soon as they become available for distribution. BB only had the exclusive on the 50VT20, apparently to get a 3D model to market quickly to counter the 3D offerings from the other makers.

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post #652 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 12:46 AM
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understand, but for some reason (or benefit) BB is also getting the VT25's in advance of other retailers. They have VT25's now and other retailers I have spoken to do not expect them until June....just what I was told
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post #653 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 01:36 AM
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Can anyone confirm if calibrated VT20 brightness is worse/lower than G10?

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post #654 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 05:39 AM
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Can anyone confirm if calibrated VT20 brightness is worse/lower than G10?


i read the review form that website, and all the guy did was mention how dim plasmas are and how great the c7000 led is (which is actually not liked by many people), so i wouldnt pay much attention to whoever wrote that review
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post #655 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 08:26 AM
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has there been any whisperings that Chad B will be doing a review of the VT20/25 anytime soon?
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post #656 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 08:53 AM
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post #657 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 12:02 PM
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Initially I was looking at the 50" VT20, until I saw the 54" VT25 at the local Magnolia store. I think the black bezel and the extra 4" diagonal will sell me on it. Just have to convince myself that it's a worthwhile use of $3000. (Hell I paid $3300 for my old XBR4 so it shouldn't be a hard sell... : )
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post #658 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 08:54 PM
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BB doesn't have an exclusive on the VT25 series; everybody will be able to sell them as soon as they become available for distribution. BB only had the exclusive on the 50VT20, apparently to get a 3D model to market quickly to counter the 3D offerings from the other makers.

Demo units are showing up in other places. I saw a 54VT25 in a 6th Avenue Electronics store in Paramus, NJ over the weekend. They don't have inventory to sell yet, but they say the ETA is in early May (right in line with what is stated earlier in this thread). I was very pleased with what I saw, and will likely buy this set in May...

It's personally disappointing to me that BB got an exclusive on the 50" set as the BB weekly circular really pushed the Samsung C7000 LCDs as 3-D for the past few weeks. Now maybe Panasonic didn't pay for co-op advertising the way Samsung did, but I would say that Samsung currently has significantly more recognition with the general public for 3-D than Panasonic does... I was also scolded by a BB employee for trying to get the VT20 off the VIVID setting so I could see what it looks like without the garish colors and edge enhancement. I did promise to put it back on VIVID when I was done (which I did), but that little encounter dropped BB way down on my list of places to buy this TV from.
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post #659 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 09:03 PM
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Demo units are showing up in other places. I saw a 54VT25 in a 6th Avenue Electronics store in Paramus, NJ over the weekend. They don't have inventory to sell yet, but they say the ETA is in early May (right in line with what is stated earlier in this thread). I was very pleased with what I saw, and will likely buy this set in May...

It's personally disappointing to me that BB got an exclusive on the 50" set as the BB weekly circular really pushed the Samsung C7000 LCDs as 3-D for the past few weeks. Now maybe Panasonic didn't pay for co-op advertising the way Samsung did, but I would say that Samsung currently has significantly more recognition with the general public for 3-D than Panasonic does... I was also scolded by a BB employee for trying to get the VT20 off the VIVID setting so I could see what it looks like without the garish colors and edge enhancement. I did promise to put it back on VIVID when I was done (which I did), but that little encounter dropped BB way down on my list of places to buy this TV from.

Panasonic paid for the exclusive in the Magnolia rooms, not the advertisements. As far as the my 50VT20/54VT25 displays, they are set on standard mode right now. I had to reset my 58V10 though since some customer came in and claimed he could calibrate with his naked eye and really screwed up the picture. It dropped me way down with customers in general
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post #660 of 10650 Old 04-28-2010, 09:17 PM
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It depends on which disc you saw. The Panasonic 3d blu ray player does come with a demo disc, but if you saw the one with a brunette singing or with any sports on it, then it's the demo disc we received from Panasonic through a merch kit, not in the blu ray box. It's also different because it doesn't sit on the menu and repeats automatically.
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