Official Panasonic TC-PxxVT20/25 Owners Thread NO PRICE TALK!! - Page 285 - AVS Forum
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post #8521 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Hurk View Post

Panasonic got back to me within the hour (email) and said that If I was further than 10 feet from TV the Glasses would not receive signal accurately and this would cause the intermittent off/on. I am 12 feet away, I will try 2 feet closer!

Hurk

I found the operable range was around 17 feet in my living room using the 1st gen Panny glasses. I had to move a couch about 6 inches forward to put the glasses in range.
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post #8522 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawgfin View Post

Just went up to turn on my tv, and the hdmi didn't connect to the roku. As a result, all I got was a green screen. When I looked at the green screen, I could see the vertical inconsistencies in brightness clear across the panel. The one on the far right that I initially noticed is still the darkest.

Have you tried playing solid colored slides using an SD card? That should make it easy to spot any flaws in the panel. The slides are referenced in many places, including in the first post of this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232441
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post #8523 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Firehawk295 View Post

I found the operable range was around 17 feet in my living room using the 1st gen Panny glasses. I had to move a couch about 6 inches forward to put the glasses in range.

Moved my couch to 10' and glasses work perfect. Actually is a better viewing distance for my 65VT25 anyway.

Hurk
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post #8524 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Hurk View Post

Moved my couch to 10' and glasses work perfect. Actually is a better viewing distance for my 65VT25 anyway.

Hurk

Try moving the sofa so your eyes are about 7 1/2' from the screen. That puts you within the THX recommended FOV for 3D displays.
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post #8525 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurk View Post

Panasonic got back to me within the hour (email) and said that If I was further than 10 feet from TV the Glasses would not receive signal accurately and this would cause the intermittent off/on. I am 12 feet away, I will try 2 feet closer!

Hurk

10 feet is still WAY TOO FAR from a TV of the size of these models. I find 8 feet from a 73" screen is about right. That means 6 feet or even less for a TV in the 50"-55" range.

It was hard enough to get people past the past for HDTV... now we have 3D and there's even MORE reason to sit close. We are so used to having the TV on one side of the room and the couch on the other side of the room that we tend to keep doing that over and over and over again. The point of 50" and larger displays isn't to be able to hang them on a wall and sit 12 feet or more from the TV... the point is to recreate the cinema experience at home. But to do that, you have to sit close enough for the TV to fill your field of vision.

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post #8526 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semblance View Post

Have you tried playing solid colored slides using an SD card? That should make it easy to spot any flaws in the panel. The slides are referenced in many places, including in the first post of this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1232441

That is a good idea. I changed hdmi cables and am now using a 1.4. That seems to clear up alot of the ghosting. But, the vertical lines/bars can still be seen, although much more subdued during daylight hours and much less prominent.
I'm honestly trying to find out if minor background lighting inconsistencies are normal and to be expected, or if it is something that will get worse later on? Right now, I'm not seeing it much during normal viewing unless I look for it. The most obvious is a vertical bar slightly darker than surrounding area. It is directly underneath the 3D logo on the right side of the panel and is about the same width as the logo. Like I said, it can be most readily seen when going thru Netflix menu selections or when viewing the hdmi green screen. There are other areas where lighting differences can be seen as well.
I'm really not looking forward to removing the pedestal and packing this thing up to return it. Especially if I'll just end up with another panel with the same issues. LCDs I have owned in the past have been susceptible to this because of the back lighting, but I thought plasma would remedy the problem. Guess I will fire an email off to Panasonic.
Thanks!
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post #8527 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Picasso Moon View Post

No, there are some differences beside the color of the bezel. Mostly involving advanced setup and calibration which may or may not be of interest to a potential buyer.

ISFccc Day/Night modes, Studio Ref Mode, Pro Settings & RS232C for remote/PC control.

Without the ISFccc feature, is the VT20 less adjustable by a proferssional calibration? I'm trying to decide which model to pull the trigger on.

As of today, BB has a fairly great deal on the VT20, and Amazon shows even lower pricing on the VT25 although from a retailer I've never heard of in my life...

Thanks.
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post #8528 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by higher_flyer View Post

Without the ISFccc feature, is the VT20 less adjustable by a proferssional calibration?

That is my understanding. One of the calibrators or someone who actually has used these features could probably elaborate. The way I see it if you aren't going to get the display professionally calibrated or use the RS232 port for control, the added features of the VT25 won't make any difference to you. I'm sure this has been discussed at some point here so maybe you could dig up some old threads that discuss it in a more detail.
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post #8529 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by higher_flyer View Post

Without the ISFccc feature, is the VT20 less adjustable by a proferssional calibration? I'm trying to decide which model to pull the trigger on.

As of today, BB has a fairly great deal on the VT20, and Amazon shows even lower pricing on the VT25 although from a retailer I've never heard of in my life...

Thanks.



Here's a few more features that the VT25 has over the VT20.

1. RS232C for PC, Crestron, AMX, Control 4, Savant and Universal Remote Control's Master System Controller MSC400 remote control system and PC control

2. ISFccc Day/Night (additional day and night ISF professionally calibrated modes)

3. Studio Ref Mode (Additional viewing mode)

4. Pro Setting (Another dedicated video mode)

5. Bezel color is different (brushed silver on VT20, dark bronze on VT25)


I believe the VT20 was a Best Buy exclusive model, not sure if that's still the case or not. Of course just to confuse you the VT20 is sold outside the US, and not sure the VT25 is. Or at least I've not seen it referenced by others outside the US yet.


TC-P50VT20: http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...C-P50VT20.T#ts

TC-P50VT25: http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...216#tabsection
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post #8530 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 06:59 PM
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PLEASE HELP!

I just unpacked my 50VT25 today and NONE of the HDMI ports work. Fresh out of the box. Component is fine, Ethernet works well, just the stupid HDMI. Am i missing something really obvious or do i need to go exchange my brand new TV?

It isn't my cables nit my sources, i literally unplugged my old Samsung DLP and plugged in my new VT25. The sources were working fine a few hours before i set up the VT25.

Any guidance would be great.
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post #8531 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ngkf7 View Post

PLEASE HELP!

I just unpacked my 50VT25 today and NONE of the HDMI ports work. Fresh out of the box. Component is fine, Ethernet works well, just the stupid HDMI. Am i missing something really obvious or do i need to go exchange my brand new TV?

It isn't my cables nit my sources, i literally unplugged my old Samsung DLP and plugged in my new VT25. The sources were working fine a few hours before i set up the VT25.

Any guidance would be great.

Try cycling power on all the source equipment/receivers.

Try connecting to the TV from one of your components directly, if the HDMI signal currently is routed through a switch or receiver.

It just seems very odd that all the HDMI inputs could not work.
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post #8532 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ngkf7 View Post

PLEASE HELP!

I just unpacked my 50VT25 today and NONE of the HDMI ports work. Fresh out of the box. Component is fine, Ethernet works well, just the stupid HDMI. Am i missing something really obvious or do i need to go exchange my brand new TV?

It isn't my cables nit my sources, i literally unplugged my old Samsung DLP and plugged in my new VT25. The sources were working fine a few hours before i set up the VT25.

Any guidance would be great.

Have you read the manual?

Have you selected the proper inputs? (Use the "INPUT" button on the remote.)
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post #8533 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswallow View Post

Try cycling power on all the source equipment/receivers.

Try connecting to the TV from one of your components directly, if the HDMI signal currently is routed through a switch or receiver.

It just seems very odd that all the HDMI inputs could not work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghgoldberg View Post

Have you read the manual?

Have you selected the proper inputs? (Use the "INPUT" button on the remote.)

I know it seems odd but vie done everything. Power cycled properly too. Panasonic told they'd send a technician out but I'm just gonna return it to Best Buy tomorrow since it will only be a day old. Oh well, sometimes you hit that 1%
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post #8534 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 09:29 PM
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I was for sure going to exchange my Sony 55HX800 this afternoon for a VT25, but got cold feet. I do like the Sony and my main reasons for an exchange are the viewing angles and eye strain from bright whites and non-fluid motion. There are no local stores that have the Panasonic on display so how will this set compare to the Sony I have now? What can I expect as far as picture quality (the Sony is very crisp). Will I be " blown away"?
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post #8535 of 10650 Old 12-29-2010, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgfin View Post

Just went up to turn on my tv, and the hdmi didn't connect to the roku. As a result, all I got was a green screen. When I looked at the green screen, I could see the vertical inconsistencies in brightness clear across the panel. The one on the far right that I initially noticed is still the darkest. Only thing I can figure is that this must be normal and is something that plasmas share with their lcd cousins. I'm still going to try a different hdmi cable, because I'm obviously having some kind of issue.
Thanks

I have the same issue, but with horizontal lines going across the screen. I only notice this during the green screen right before a trailer starts (the screen where it shows the rating of the film before the trailer). Not sure if this is an issue or not, but after some quick research, this seems normal on plasmas. I really do not notice it anywhere else during any kind of playback. Your issue seems different though since it deals with brightness.
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post #8536 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wu343 View Post

I was for sure going to exchange my Sony 55HX800 this afternoon for a VT25, but got cold feet. I do like the Sony and my main reasons for an exchange are the viewing angles and eye strain from bright whites and non-fluid motion. There are no local stores that have the Panasonic on display so how will this set compare to the Sony I have now? What can I expect as far as picture quality (the Sony is very crisp). Will I be " blown away"?

I was in the same boat, considering plasma as a replacement of my lcd and not sure I was taking the right decision.

Just got my VT25, replaced a Sony W3000 (2007 model) LCD. I'm still tweaking and learning on my new set but you're right about viewing angles, they're way better on a VT25 that's for sure. I think it's mostly a plasma vs lcd argument, not necessarily related to this particular model though.

I don't know the importance you're according to 3D but I think it's one big plus for the VT25 too compared to the HX800. 3D PQ is top-notch, plus you have the transmitter built-in in the TV and Panny gen2 glasses are great compared to Sonys.

You probably read all the positive reviews about 2D PQ of the VT25 too, but anyway like you said if the HX800 picture satisfies you right now, I guess it comes down to value, and I think the VT25 is the better deal.
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post #8537 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

10 feet is still WAY TOO FAR from a TV of the size of these models. I find 8 feet from a 73" screen is about right.

???? At this range you'll see seperation between every pixels (!) and you'll see compression artifact and such, unless you're watching a good quality Blu-Ray. I think most plasma use dancing pixel (dithering) to properly render some colors and this work only when you are far enough to not see the dancing pixels individually which is very annoying.

Those distances will be fine when 4K will be here.
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post #8538 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Matt View Post
I have the same issue, but with horizontal lines going across the screen. I only notice this during the green screen right before a trailer starts (the screen where it shows the rating of the film before the trailer). Not sure if this is an issue or not, but after some quick research, this seems normal on plasmas. I really do not notice it anywhere else during any kind of playback. Your issue seems different though since it deals with brightness.
Thanks Matt
My "ghost lines" appear to be on right side, but not on the left side so much. I can also see it slightly whenever the 4:3 bars are used, but only on the right side. But, it doesn't seem to effect normal viewing. Just postings (e.g. silent films), menus etc. I'm a bit of a worrier and my main concern is that it will get progressively worse. Just my luck, as soon as the warranty expires, the thing will explode! That's just my luck with electronics.
I want to thank everyone that has taken the time to help others. You guys could be just sitting back and enjoying your sets, but you still cruise thru the forums to help those who are in distress. Who says chivalry is dead?
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post #8539 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by wu343 View Post
I was for sure going to exchange my Sony 55HX800 this afternoon for a VT25, but got cold feet. I do like the Sony and my main reasons for an exchange are the viewing angles and eye strain from bright whites and non-fluid motion. There are no local stores that have the Panasonic on display so how will this set compare to the Sony I have now? What can I expect as far as picture quality (the Sony is very crisp). Will I be " blown away"?

I exchanged my nx810(similar to HX800) for a VT25. I ultimately did the exchange because of clouding issues on 2 sets but the picture quality and viewing angle are better on the VT25. Despite all the settings I tried on the nx810 there were always some situations that produced artifacts. I've compared the two with sports/movies and the VT25 just renders everything better. The Sony Bravia sync and wireless built-in are nice features and are a plus over the VT25(I have a PS3 and CT350).
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post #8540 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 08:13 AM
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I have my modem/router far away from my television. I was just wondering if anyone is trying an internet dongle with their televisions, and which ones work consistently to make the televisions wireless without hassles.
Thanks!
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post #8541 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna

I exchanged my nx810(similar to HX800) for a VT25. I ultimately did the exchange because of clouding issues on 2 sets but the picture quality and viewing angle are better on the VT25. Despite all the settings I tried on the nx810 there were always some situations that produced artifacts. I've compared the two with sports/movies and the VT25 just renders everything better. The Sony Bravia sync and wireless built-in are nice features and are a plus over the VT25(I have a PS3 and CT350).
Can you elaborate on the VT25 rendering everything better? What about the crisp images on the Sony LED, how does the Panasonic compare? Also, do you miss the bright whites of LED? This decision is killing me, I could just hang the Sony on the wall and be done, but I would just be thinking about what could have been with the Plasma.
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post #8542 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawgfin View Post
I have my modem/router far away from my television. I was just wondering if anyone is trying an internet dongle with their televisions, and which ones work consistently to make the televisions wireless without hassles.
Thanks!
I am using a Buffalo WLI-TX4-AG300N Ethernet Converter, and I am happy with it. Others here have also reported good results.

It's not a dongle of course, so it doesn't use USB. You run an ethernet cable to the converter, and it will connect (up to four units) to your wireless network. It works super for me, but I can't speak for its range: my router is on the floor above the converter, but it is located almost directly above it.
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post #8543 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wu343 View Post
Can you elaborate on the VT25 rendering everything better? What about the crisp images on the Sony LED, how does the Panasonic compare? Also, do you miss the bright whites of LED? This decision is killing me, I could just hang the Sony on the wall and be done, but I would just be thinking about what could have been with the Plasma.
I noticed the blacks were better right away with the VT25. They are supposedly similar but maybe it is the effect of the sensitive off angle viewing with the nx810. Off angle on the nx810, I couldn't sit on either end of my couch without losing some PQ. I had to be directly in front of it. I noticed when there was a lot of detail within the blacks such as pin stripes, I would sometimes see distortion/flicker around the pin stripes. On the football fields if there was a shimmer from water or the artifical elements in the turf it would have a crystalized look. I spent a lot of time playing with the settings and I got it to a point that was acceptable but there were some situations where it would have rendered it strangely. I'm not saying the nx810 is bad and I would have kept it had it not been for the clouding. In regards to the whites, I didn't see a noticable difference.
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post #8544 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 09:51 AM
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Does the P50VT20 have upscaling to 1080p built in or do I need my receiver to provide that capability?

Will the BDT100 blue-ray player upscale my DVD's to 1080p?

Will AT&T Uverse's HD DVR upscale (I don't have their HD service yet)?

I'm buying the P50VT20 bundle today and I'm trying to decide what receiver to pair up to it. My room only works for 5.1 and I've been looking at the Denon AVR-591. It will convert analog video to HDMI output but does not do video upscaling to 1080p. I want to be able to play non-1080p sources (family Hi-8 and Mini-D video) and non-HD broadcast TV and upscale to 1080p for a decent picture.

Also, what would be the optimum wiring? I'm thinking HDMI between TV and Receiver and Blue-Ray and DVR to the Receiver via HDMI.
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post #8545 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 10:18 AM
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Does the P50VT20 have upscaling to 1080p built in or do I need my receiver to provide that capability?

Will the BDT100 blue-ray player upscale my DVD's to 1080p?

Will AT&T Uverse's HD DVR upscale (I don't have their HD service yet)?

I'm buying the P50VT20 bundle today and I'm trying to decide what receiver to pair up to it. My room only works for 5.1 and I've been looking at the Denon AVR-591. It will convert analog video to HDMI output but does not do video upscaling to 1080p. I want to be able to play non-1080p sources (family Hi-8 and Mini-D video) and non-HD broadcast TV and upscale to 1080p for a decent picture.

Also, what would be the optimum wiring? I'm thinking HDMI between TV and Receiver and Blue-Ray and DVR to the Receiver via HDMI.

The VT20 will upscale but it does a lousy job. The BDT100 will upscale your DVD's to 1080p and it does a pretty good job. I'm not familiar with AT&T's DVR but I haven't seen one yet that doesn't upscale to at least 1080i (my Motorola DVR does a decient job). I have a Pioneer VSX-1120 AVR which does an excellent job of upscaling all SD sources. I went with that model specifically because of its Marvell processor - knowing the Panasonic VT series does not do a good job of upscaling standard def (I have a VT25 with the BDT100).
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post #8546 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 12:56 PM
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So I just ordered P58VT25 from Best Buy. I was able to package a Panasonic 3D BDP and the Avatar 3D Starter kit for a great price. Best Buy is also allowing me to hold onto my Sony for another month (return policy is different during the holidays) so I can compare them side by side.

One thing I did notice while in the store that has me a little concerned, are the deep black levels on Plasma sets. All of the LED TVs, including my Sony, display full black scenes as black, while the plasmas in the store looked more gray. Is this something the Infinite Black Panel Pro on the VT25 will help with? Also, my room does have a fairly large window directly behind the viewing area, so hopefully this Panasonic will not reflect light worse then the Sony (the HX800 Sony's are quite glossy).
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post #8547 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 01:05 PM
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^^^
You will only get the deepest blacks from a plasma in a fully darkened room. Certainly not in a BB showroom. The more light, the less black.
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post #8548 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 01:15 PM
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^^^
You will only get the deepest blacks from a plasma in a fully darkened room. Certainly not in a BB showroom. The more light, the less black.

I guess I wasn't really aware of this limitation with Plasma displays. Is it noticeable? In the stores the blacks on the LED TVs look dramatically better.
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post #8549 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawgfin View Post

I have my modem/router far away from my television. I was just wondering if anyone is trying an internet dongle with their televisions, and which ones work consistently to make the televisions wireless without hassles.
Thanks!

See post #8185
The Netgear WNDA3100 version 2 USB dongle works for me.
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post #8550 of 10650 Old 12-30-2010, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wu343 View Post

I guess I wasn't really aware of this limitation with Plasma displays. Is it noticeable? In the stores the blacks on the LED TVs look dramatically better.

Unless your home has lighting like BB, the plasma will look better in your home. If your home does have lighting like BB, you need to be looking at purchasing an LCD.
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