Official Panasonic TC-PxxVT20/25 Owners Thread NO PRICE TALK!! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post

Come back Happy!

Disregard and shake off the negative input. You are doing a good thing relating your experience with your new VT. You have been a big help with my decision making.

+1,

I know there are a lot of technical related reviews and posts, but I wanted a person to describe the TV as most people will experience it. I like the technical aspects, but too many get caught up in the finer details they may have not even cared about just because an "expert" says its bad. Most notably the increasing blacks. Yes it sucks, but to the average/above average consumer this may not be a end all.

So again i ask, please continue with your post. Many here are enjoying them and that is exactly what forums are for. Your experience so far has been very informative.
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:11 PM
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Oh, I am really interested in the pictures of the bezel and bezel color.
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:15 PM
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pics please!
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:41 PM
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Great thread, already have the TC-P65VT25 on pre-order. The B&M store I ordered has it listed to be released 6/11 in their computers. Here's hoping!
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:14 PM
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Did all of the negative comments from a few scare away happy nightmares?

I hope not as I keep checking for his updates!
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tacklebary View Post

Did all of the negative comments from a few scare away happy nightmares?

I hope not as I keep checking for his updates!

It wasn't even "a few." It was one very loud goofball trying to justify what he paid for his Kuro...
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:09 PM
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Yes I agree. Great way to kill the thread when no one else has a set but him it seems.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:30 PM
 
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Quit acting like a bunch of crybabies. Did it ever occur to any of you that perhaps he is just busy? It's only been one day. If you want the thread to move on (I already have), then why are some of you trying to rekindle animosities? If people are going to make exaggerated statements, they should expect to be called to account for it, and they should prepare to defend their positions without packing up their toys and running home, just because someone expresses a dissenting opinion.

P.S. I paid far less for my Kuro than any of you will for your VT20/25. Nothing to justify. Try again.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:17 AM
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I had a Mitsubishi HD RPTV that was 12 years old and I decided to finally upgrade to a 50" VT20 last week. Since there seems to be very few VT20/VT25 owners out there willing to share their experience, I thought I could add my $.02.

My impressions are very similar to those of happy nightmares. I love this TV. Under normal lighting conditions HDTV content looks amazing. THX mode works really well out of the box. I'm mostly concerned about its gaming performance and how it works with my PS3 and XBOX 360. I don't watch movies in the dark so I don't really care whether this TV achieves Kuro black levels. Under normal lighting conditions, the black levels look inky enough to me and better than any flat panel TV I've ever seen. For what its worth, I've never seen a Kuro in person and I'm not really interested in professional calibration at the moment given that I mostly will use this TV for gaming.

On the issue of flickering, I have only watched one blu-ray movie and I have not noticed any flickering (TV was set at 96hz output). Once I watch a few more I can report further on that issue.

The gamers on this board will be most interested in the input lag test that I conducted with this plasma. I tried to establish a baseline by conducting a lag test with a laptop and external BenQ LCD computer monitor. I've attached a JPEG with that result. As you can see, I could not detect any lag with the external monitor.

I then did a input lag test with the VT20 set to "Game Mode" and all signal processing turned off.

You can see a video of the test on vimeo here:

vimeo.com/10224970

(Sorry its not a link. Forum won't let me post links yet)

Play and pause the video periodically to see the lag. The result of that test was an average input delay of 30-32 milliseconds. My understanding is that this is very good and is comparable to the G10/V10 series.

I also did a real world input test by playing the song MonkeyWrench on Guitar Hero II with no game lag adjustments on medium difficulty. I was able to achieve 95%+ notes hit pretty easily. Apart from Guitar Hero, I've played quite a few games on the TV including the Just Cause 2 demo, Bad Company 2, the Blur beta, Forza 3 and they all look great.

Lastly, for those concerned about the bezel, I can say that it is an attractive gun metal grey. It is in no way "fugly" as someone in another thread has suggested. Would it look better in black? Maybe. But start watching a high def source and you'll forget the bezel color in no time. I have Verizon Fios cable service and the HD channels look stunning.

Feel free to ask questions or request pictures.
LL
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:40 AM
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hello let me start buy saying I'm jealous and it sucks these TVs are so far away from being on the best buy floors. In any event I need to get a new tv and I would like to wait dr thhis one but my question is how much will the 50 inch sell for. Feel free to pm me if you don't want to post it here

Thanks so much

P.s. I saw one website list it for 10,000

Jukebox360 does NOT own a g20/25. Please disregard all his settings/comments on the g20.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:48 AM
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Hey guys.

Here is a video I made (with audio) showing all the VT20 menu, user controls. This will give you a good idea of the picture tweaks you can make.

http://www.youtube.com/user/pannyvt20

Do not use this to judge picture quality. This is only to show the menu, and I made some sacrifices in video quality so menu text would be clear.

Please note: I had a few drinks tonight so the narrative is not exactly my proudest moment.

Be back later.

One day at a time...
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechashiva2k View Post

I had a Mitsubishi HD RPTV that was 12 years old and I decided to finally upgrade to a 50" VT20 last week. Since there seems to be very few VT20/VT25 owners out there willing to share their experience, I thought I could add my $.02.

My impressions are very similar to those of happy nightmares. I love this TV. Under normal lighting conditions HDTV content looks amazing. THX mode works really well out of the box. I'm mostly concerned about its gaming performance and how it works with my PS3 and XBOX 360. I don't watch movies in the dark so I don't really care whether this TV achieves Kuro black levels. Under normal lighting conditions, the black levels look inky enough to me and better than any flat panel TV I've ever seen. For what its worth, I've never seen a Kuro in person and I'm not really interested in professional calibration at the moment given that I mostly will use this TV for gaming.

On the issue of flickering, I have only watched one blu-ray movie and I have not noticed any flickering (TV was set at 96hz output). Once I watch a few more I can report further on that issue.

The gamers on this board will be most interested in the input lag test that I conducted with this plasma. I tried to establish a baseline by conducting a lag test with a laptop and external BenQ LCD computer monitor. I've attached a JPEG with that result. As you can see, I could not detect any lag with the external monitor.

I then did a input lag test with the VT20 set to "Game Mode" and all signal processing turned off.

You can see a video of the test on vimeo here:

vimeo.com/10224970

(Sorry its not a link. Forum won't let me post links yet)

Play and pause the video periodically to see the lag. The result of that test was an average input delay of 30-32 milliseconds. My understanding is that this is very good and is comparable to the G10/V10 series.

I also did a real world input test by playing the song MonkeyWrench on Guitar Hero II with no game lag adjustments on medium difficulty. I was able to achieve 95%+ notes hit pretty easily. Apart from Guitar Hero, I've played quite a few games on the TV including the Just Cause 2 demo, Bad Company 2, the Blur beta, Forza 3 and they all look great.

Lastly, for those concerned about the bezel, I can say that it is an attractive gun metal grey. It is in no way "fugly" as someone in another thread has suggested. Would it look better in black? Maybe. But start watching a high def source and you'll forget the bezel color in no time. I have Verizon Fios cable service and the HD channels look stunning.

Feel free to ask questions or request pictures.

Thanks for the test mech. If accurate, 32ms against a laptop is twice as slow as the '09's--I showed 15ms on a G10. This would suggest the VT's could potentially push 40ms against a CRT, which is not good news. They may wind up being on par with Samsung's Game or PC mode. To confirm, you did definitely have blur reduction off in the tests?
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:55 AM
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Thanks your info, Mechashiva2k.
We surely need pictures.
I was also wondering, how sd broadcasts look on this tv, from distance about 2.5-3 meters (8-9 ft), but i guess you haven't tried it yet..
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PussyVampire View Post

hello let me start buy saying I'm jealous and it sucks these TVs are so far away from being on the best buy floors. In any event I need to get a new tv and I would like to wait dr thhis one but my question is how much will the 50 inch sell for. Feel free to pm me if you don't want to post it here

Thanks so much

P.s. I saw one website list it for 10,000

Some BB's already have them. I just saw one in the NYC Union Square. You can always ask if you can order it. Some of the warehouses have them already, but just haven't sent them to the stores. For example, none of the Manhattan stores have the G20, but you can order one in a store and get it the next day because the warehouse has them.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Thanks for the test mech. If accurate, 32ms against a laptop is twice as slow as the '09's--I showed 15ms on a G10. This would suggest the VT's could potentially push 40ms against a CRT, which is not good news. They may wind up being on par with Samsung's Game or PC mode. To confirm, you did definitely have blur reduction off in the tests?




I know i know, just caught a moment.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:12 AM
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Just a few observations...these are subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt, go see one for yourself and form your own opinions before buying:

My local BB/Magnolia store has the 50VT20 on on display. Home theater manager was pretty knowledgable and said that the sets weren't "for sale until 21st March" but that they were taking preorders. I spent about 30 minutes in front of the tv in moderate lighting with a 3D blu-ray player and glasses. First let me say that they are again claiming a "one sheet of glass" but the one I saw definitely had a brushed silver bezel and the glass didn't cover it (just like all the other plasmas). The anti-reflective coating on the TV was impressive, very close to Kuro level. The absolute black level was hard to evaluate with that much light, it was in THX mode and color looked subjectively good. I spent most of the time watching Panasonic's 3D demo disc, which was impressive on some clips and mediochre on others. The glasses have a design flaw, the opening on either side lets in a LOT of stray light causing reflections inside the glasses and hammering contrast. They would be OK in a bat cave, but how many people are going to watch major sporting event (the majority of broadcast 3D as of yet) without being able to see the beer and nuts. I feel that this technology may be ready for prime time (all 3 versions of it!), after they get the $150 glasses soted out. Watching this TV, I've decided what really makes the 3D immersive is a gigantic image (something around 100"), so I'll be bucking what the CEO of Panasonic and Samsung said and NOT pitching in an extra 30% just for the 3D feature (and AR screen, 96 hz, I know...). The BB mgr. also said they did not have the G20 on display but had 4 of them in the back that could be purchased, I really would like to have seen one to judge if THX mode is bright and punchy and if the colors are on, AR screen is good, etc.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

The BB mgr. also said they did not have the G20 on display but had 4 of them in the back that could be purchased, I really would like to have seen one to judge if THX mode is bright and punchy and if the colors are on, AR screen is good, etc.

Good observations. I am looking at replacing an old Panny TH-42PA20 old school. Went to BB to check out the new stuff (g20/vt20) today. While they did not have the VT20 at the BB I went to, they did have the G20. I know this is not the right thread for that but nice TV. To echo your point, I stopped at a few BB the last few days and it is almost like the G20 is hidden. I finally found one hung at floor level, away from the other TV's, no tag on it, and sitting sideways on the mount. Very odd to see for the new Panny but I guess that is BB for you
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechashiva2k View Post

Input lag

Thanks a lot for taking the time to test input lag mechashiva. I guess my theory that "faster phosphors" would equal less lag than usual is kind of out the window :P
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

Just a few observations...these are subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt, go see one for yourself and form your own opinions before buying:

My local BB/Magnolia store has the 50VT20 on on display. Home theater manager was pretty knowledgable and said that the sets weren't "for sale until 21st March" but that they were taking preorders. I spent about 30 minutes in front of the tv in moderate lighting with a 3D blu-ray player and glasses. First let me say that they are again claiming a "one sheet of glass" but the one I saw definitely had a brushed silver bezel and the glass didn't cover it (just like all the other plasmas). The anti-reflective coating on the TV was impressive, very close to Kuro level. The absolute black level was hard to evaluate with that much light, it was in THX mode and color looked subjectively good. I spent most of the time watching Panasonic's 3D demo disc, which was impressive on some clips and mediochre on others. The glasses have a design flaw, the opening on either side lets in a LOT of stray light causing reflections inside the glasses and hammering contrast. They would be OK in a bat cave, but how many people are going to watch major sporting event (the majority of broadcast 3D as of yet) without being able to see the beer and nuts. I feel that this technology may be ready for prime time (all 3 versions of it!), after they get the $150 glasses soted out. Watching this TV, I've decided what really makes the 3D immersive is a gigantic image (something around 100"), so I'll be bucking what the CEO of Panasonic and Samsung said and NOT pitching in an extra 30% just for the 3D feature (and AR screen, 96 hz, I know...). The BB mgr. also said they did not have the G20 on display but had 4 of them in the back that could be purchased, I really would like to have seen one to judge if THX mode is bright and punchy and if the colors are on, AR screen is good, etc.

The single sheet of glass they're talking about is the elimination of the outer layer of glass that Panny plasmas used to have, not the edge to edge glass design of the V10. The VT20/25 and G series use a front bonded filter, just like the Kuros.
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:05 AM
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In reply to lekom's question, my lag test was in "Game Mode" with all image processing features turned off, even blur reduction.

Also I pretty much avoid watching SD content since my cable provider has almost every channel I watch in HD (except BBC America HD, damn!).

But I will do some SD/HD comparisons and take some pictures of an SD channel and its HD equivalent tonight and post.

As an aside, I purchased the TV at the Best Buy in Union Square in Manhattan.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:30 AM
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This is line bleed: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1083853

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuros View Post

Thanks for the review happy nightmares.

Just one question: by "line bleeding", do you mean the green phosphor trails you can see on fast moving objects, a problem which seems to affect most plasma tvs (they're usually more noticeable on b&w movies)?

Thanks.

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Old 03-17-2010, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

Hey guys.

Here is a video I made (with audio) showing all the VT20 menu, user controls. This will give you a good idea of the picture tweaks you can make.

http://www.youtube.com/user/pannyvt20

Do not use this to judge picture quality. This is only to show the menu, and I made some sacrifices in video quality so menu text would be clear.

Please note: I had a few drinks tonight so the narrative is not exactly my proudest moment.

Be back later.

LOL...love the intro music! Thanks for the informative video.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mechashiva2k View Post

B]input lag test[/b]

Thanks a lot for making this available. Did you try with game mode off? Also, any chance you could test the VGA port?

All display reviewers: TEST INPUT LAG! Gamers want good TVs, too!
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:58 AM
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Thanks a lot for taking the time to test input lag mechashiva. I guess my theory that "faster phosphors" would equal less lag than usual is kind of out the window :P

I thought the fast phosphors were only on the VT25/3D models?

All display reviewers: TEST INPUT LAG! Gamers want good TVs, too!
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechashiva2k View Post

I had a Mitsubishi HD RPTV that was 12 years old and I decided to finally upgrade to a 50" VT20 last week. Since there seems to be very few VT20/VT25 owners out there willing to share their experience, I thought I could add my $.02.

My impressions are very similar to those of happy nightmares. I love this TV. Under normal lighting conditions HDTV content looks amazing. THX mode works really well out of the box. I'm mostly concerned about its gaming performance and how it works with my PS3 and XBOX 360. I don't watch movies in the dark so I don't really care whether this TV achieves Kuro black levels. Under normal lighting conditions, the black levels look inky enough to me and better than any flat panel TV I've ever seen. For what its worth, I've never seen a Kuro in person and I'm not really interested in professional calibration at the moment given that I mostly will use this TV for gaming.

On the issue of flickering, I have only watched one blu-ray movie and I have not noticed any flickering (TV was set at 96hz output). Once I watch a few more I can report further on that issue.

The gamers on this board will be most interested in the input lag test that I conducted with this plasma. I tried to establish a baseline by conducting a lag test with a laptop and external BenQ LCD computer monitor. I've attached a JPEG with that result. As you can see, I could not detect any lag with the external monitor.

I then did a input lag test with the VT20 set to "Game Mode" and all signal processing turned off.

You can see a video of the test on vimeo here:

vimeo.com/10224970

(Sorry its not a link. Forum won't let me post links yet)

Play and pause the video periodically to see the lag. The result of that test was an average input delay of 30-32 milliseconds. My understanding is that this is very good and is comparable to the G10/V10 series.

I also did a real world input test by playing the song MonkeyWrench on Guitar Hero II with no game lag adjustments on medium difficulty. I was able to achieve 95%+ notes hit pretty easily. Apart from Guitar Hero, I've played quite a few games on the TV including the Just Cause 2 demo, Bad Company 2, the Blur beta, Forza 3 and they all look great.

Lastly, for those concerned about the bezel, I can say that it is an attractive gun metal grey. It is in no way "fugly" as someone in another thread has suggested. Would it look better in black? Maybe. But start watching a high def source and you'll forget the bezel color in no time. I have Verizon Fios cable service and the HD channels look stunning.

Feel free to ask questions or request pictures.

VERY, VERY helpful post. I am a huge gamer and currently I am practicing my timing on Street Fighter IV. for those of you who play, timing is very critical, especially for 1 frame links. I wonder how it compares to my current Samsung DLP. Is it possible for you to do the test with 'Game Mode' off? I will do some research so i can better understand the numbers.

On another note, I am really interested in seeing pictures of the Gunmetal Grey. I personally like gunmetal. is the frame a metal or plastic?
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:20 PM
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Jesus Page 2 is a mess!

Look we all Know the Kuros are king but some just cant afford it. No way in hell would i have gotten a Samsung if i could have gotten a Kuro. Heck i would take a 4280 over my 50" Samsung.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:24 PM
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mechashiva2k << great test

-scheherazade
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:45 PM
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Approaching 72 hours of continuos non-stop operation of the VT20. No significant heat coming from the back of set. The entire back panel is cool to the touch. No signs of buzzing, popping or any other noises. Back again soon...

One day at a time...
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

Hey guys.

Here is a video I made (with audio) showing all the VT20 menu, user controls. This will give you a good idea of the picture tweaks you can make.

http://www.youtube.com/user/pannyvt20

Do not use this to judge picture quality. This is only to show the menu, and I made some sacrifices in video quality so menu text would be clear.

Please note: I had a few drinks tonight so the narrative is not exactly my proudest moment.

Be back later.

Are you seeing flicker on Blu-ray with the 96Hz setting?

The reason why I ask is because if you are seeing it on your broadcast system (Sky, Cable or whatever is equivalent in the US), this will be at 60Hz (ie NTSC) and this will be seen as 60Hz on the screen which quite a few people can see as flickering.

With my Pioneer plasma, I can see 60Hz flicker on US region 1 DVDs. Fortunately, the Pioneer has cadence detection which outputs these at 72Hz when enabled in the advanced menu. After this is done I can no longer see flicker and I am very sensitive to it.

What a brilliant thread by the way
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:12 PM
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The only way to get rid of lag is to play 1080p games on a 1080p set. This wont be a problem next Gen as the Wii2, PS4 and next Xbox will be pumping out 1080p games as the standard....The Wii2 better not skimp out and go 720p or I'll be very dissapointed as I'm a huge Nintendo nut

As for now, concerning HD owners who have 1024x768, 1366x768 and 1080p displays have to deal with it. Most PS3 and 360 games are 720p, while a few are actually 1080p. It really irks me that they don't make 1280x720 Plasma's...or any HDTV for that matter besides those aceint DLP sets. Anyways, Virtua Tennis 3 and Super Street Fighter II HD Remix are both 1080p for ex, and i suggest you 1080p HDTV owners give them a try and see for yourself if there's actually any lag, because there shouldn't be any. VT3 is downloadable online for the PS3, which is nice just so you can get a taste of what a 1080p game look like besides the 1080p dashboard, and 720p games being upscaled/blown up to fit 1080p
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