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post #1 of 52 Old 03-25-2010, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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If its only gaming on the Plasma, would you guys recommend going LCD in fear of burn in. I was looking at the c450 and the Panny C2s. However, most of you seem to mix content, and I would be doing 10% movie Watching 90% gaming.
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post #2 of 52 Old 03-25-2010, 11:53 PM
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I recommend Plasma for any and everything. There's just no beating it IMO. I am looking to replace my computer monitor with a plasma ASAP.

9G KURO equipped.
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post #3 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cumbaya19 View Post

If its only gaming on the Plasma, would you guys recommend going LCD in fear of burn in. I was looking at the c450 and the Panny C2s. However, most of you seem to mix content, and I would be doing 10% movie Watching 90% gaming.

I own a Pan G10 but I went out and bought a Samsung B6000, the picture was clean and sharp, but was game lag ever horrible every game was frustrating to play especially MW2/Killzone 2 ,game mode helped a little but PQ was degraded, anyways I took it back the next day.
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post #4 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 03:51 AM
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Plasma is the way to go.The lg's and samsungs have a gaming mode that makes online gaming faster.so if you come around a corner you will see.them before they see you.look into it you wont be disappointed
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post #5 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 05:06 AM
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Im a plasma guy through and through but I have to admit that if I was gaming heavy, meaning 75% or more Id get an LCD. For every other usage scenario Id go plasma all day.

My 3 cents.
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post #6 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 07:34 AM
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I put 60 hours onto a week old Samsung 50c450 (which has really bad IR levels) with Final Fantasy XIII and I have no IR remaining from that playthrough. This game spends 80% of it's playtime in the battle menus. If one of the worst Plasma sets for IR can withstand what is basically a massive torture test, then I think that any plasma is fine for gaming.

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post #7 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 08:08 AM
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Panny 1080p 2007 model here (Costco variant of PE700U) and I'd have to say: no input lag at all. I definitely recommend gaming on my plasma, the picture is great (as every panny plasma owner knows) and without input lag, I can play any of the Guitar Hero or Street Fighter games that require very specific inputs.
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post #8 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 08:32 AM
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Your 2009 panasonic is going to go to **** regardless, so enjoy gaming on it!
Treat it like a POS snow car you drive in blizzards.

Make sure your plasma can show 1080 lines. That's extremely important for gaming nowadays.
Panasonics can after being changed to HDSIZE2 mode.
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post #9 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 08:41 AM
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I have a Samsung 860 plasma and I have some lag on mine even in game mode.
Beware if you play shooters.

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post #10 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cumbaya19 View Post

If its only gaming on the Plasma, would you guys recommend going LCD in fear of burn in. I was looking at the c450 and the Panny C2s. However, most of you seem to mix content, and I would be doing 10% movie Watching 90% gaming.

That depends on if you're playing a variety of games, or if you're playing the same game the vast majority of the time. If you're one of those guys that plays World of Warcraft 80 hrs a week for 4 years, you're going to get burn-in on a plasma.

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post #11 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 11:47 AM
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Plasma burn in was always exaggerated, and today is largely corrected for both on the hardware side and with synthetics (screen savers and such).

You should be no more likely to have burned in images on a modern Plasma than you were on a traditional CRT (which was possible, but usually only found on very old CRT sets - a non issue with plasmas, which have finite life spans).
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post #12 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 02:17 PM
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I had an LCD 46" and I played alot on it mainly Battlefield Bad Company. Now I have a Pioneer Pro-101fd and I see no difference playing the same games. Go for plasma you won't regret it and you won't be too dissapointed when you see a movie on it.
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post #13 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I play alot of sports games. In basketball you have time the release of a shot. I'm gaming on an old LCD which has like a 20ms. Samsungs website says it had a .001ms?
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post #14 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cumbaya19 View Post

I play alot of sports games. In basketball you have time the release of a shot. I'm gaming on an old LCD which has like a 20ms. Samsungs website says it had a .001ms?

Two different things; the first is input lag, the second is picture refresh lag. Input lag is a delay from the device to the television, but once it gets there it looks sharp. Picture lag leads to a loss of motion resolution and a blurry image.

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post #15 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Two different things; the first is input lag, the second is picture refresh lag. Input lag is a delay from the device to the television, but once it gets there it looks sharp. Picture lag leads to a loss of motion resolution and a blurry image.

so would the samsung c450 be as good as CRT for input lag?
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post #16 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cumbaya19 View Post

so would the samsung c450 be as good as CRT for input lag?

As far as I understand, CRTs have the least amount of input lag of any TV technology out there today, with plasma (similar in tech) being second. Just remember to turn off any processing settings you can (ie edge enhancement, NR, Dynamic Contrast, etc) as these would add to the input lag time. I'm also a big gamer, and I'm ordering a plasma next week to use.
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post #17 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 08:44 PM
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Using a PS50B650, I mostly game on it. At least 3/4 of all usage of this set is gaming so yeh I don't think you'll have a problem. Expect some IR, especially for the first few hundred hours but after that you'll mostly be fine, any IR will be gone in 15 or so minutes at most.
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post #18 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encrypted Neuron View Post

As far as I understand, CRTs have the least amount of input lag of any TV technology out there today, with plasma (similar in tech) being second. Just remember to turn off any processing settings you can (ie edge enhancement, NR, Dynamic Contrast, etc) as these would add to the input lag time. I'm also a big gamer, and I'm ordering a plasma next week to use.

CRT's are just about guaranteed to be input lag free.

Plasma's generally have low input lag for an HDTV, on average they have the least amount but some brands *samsung* have more than others due to excessive image processing methods some of which may not always be defeatable plus their scaliers in both plasma and LCD lag worse than others but do a better job at it than most hence why they lag worse.

all this being said there are quite a few LCD HDTV's availible that have just as low input lag.

Panasonic LCD's with IPS-Alpha panels (32 & 37" sizes only with this panel) have very low lag, just as low and in many cases lower than plasmas and this holds true on them without even using game mode on them as well as when using non-native resolutions.

Sharp LCD's when in game mode also perform very well, just as well most of the time. as i've yet to own one personally but i do own a Panny LCD with an IPS-Alpha i cannot comment on which has less pixel blur when playing games with low lag but i would speculate that the Panasonic's do because the Sharps use a VA based panel and any VA based panel i've used that did have low input lag had smearing problems with certain images. that being said i've only heard good things from gamers who own Sharp LCD's so it must not be as bad on them as i have seen on other brand TV's but you never know.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #19 of 52 Old 03-26-2010, 11:56 PM
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Panasonic 65" V10 here and I use it for my PS3 and PC (both on HDMI) and wouldnt change it for anything.
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post #20 of 52 Old 03-27-2010, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gameguy369 View Post

Panasonic 65" V10 here and I use it for my PS3 and PC (both on HDMI) and wouldnt change it for anything.

How much maintenance do you have to perform on it, ie: running pictures and patterns to wash or prevent IR? Have you had it a while?
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post #21 of 52 Old 03-27-2010, 07:00 AM
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I got GH: Smash Hits yesterday and went to play it but I stunk, it was because of lag on my 50c450, I ran the calibration and got a 42ms lag rating, after that I played fine considering that I hadn't played a GH in almost a year. The Samsung plasma sets definitely have more lag than Panasonic plasma sets, roughly 1 frame I would guess. Still way better than their LCDs. (I ran a 2009 Panasonic plasma at 30ms for lag, my 2007 Panny was at 16ms)

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post #22 of 52 Old 03-27-2010, 01:24 PM
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I own a Samsung PN50B550 plasma, and so far I have had zero issues with burn in during gaming sessions. At worst, I end up with some IR that lingers for about 10-15 minutes. Then again, my set is relatively new (almost a month old), and there's the possibility that even IR won't be that big of an issue the older the set gets.

In short: go for it.
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post #23 of 52 Old 03-27-2010, 01:31 PM
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Panasonic plasma for gaming. No contest. As long as you take the time to wash the screen of IR after long sessions, burn-in won't be a problem. I keep the break-in slides loaded in my DVD player to blank the screen after long gaming sessions.

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post #24 of 52 Old 03-27-2010, 08:51 PM
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Just get an LCD dude. Trust me. Yes plasma still has slightly better PQ if you dont take into account that the only plasmas that can still keep up with current lcd's LOSE CONTRAST OVER TIME. Kuro's are gone, Pany's lose contrast, and Samsung's are IR magnets that produce lower contrast and the same amount of input lag compared to their LCD's. This isnt coming from some fanboy either. I have been arguing for plasmas for the last few years and I owned a PN50A650 which had banding and was replaced by a B550, and I also own a G10. I am a big gamer and I wish I just bought an lcd last year instead. I'm tired of seeing an ESPN logo's ghost in bottom right corner when Im playing MW2. I'm tired of seeing the IR from my Speedometer in Forza3 when I'm playing BF2. Its highly unlikely that you will ever get burn in, but if you are a gamer like me, you will never be able to escape from IR. You're constantly going to worry about whether or not your TV is going to get damaged if you have another 2 hour session of MW2. Do yourself a favor and find an lcd that is known to have a generally uniform screen and acceptable input lag. If Sony and Sammy didnt fix their bad input lag from their 09 models, LG's have always been great lcd's to game on.
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post #25 of 52 Old 03-27-2010, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

Panasonic plasma for gaming. No contest. As long as you take the time to wash the screen of IR after long sessions, burn-in won't be a problem. I keep the break-in slides loaded in my DVD player to blank the screen after long gaming sessions.

Wow... pretty lame that you have to constantly maintain your baby... I guess you are not bothered by phosphor lag either, huh?
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post #26 of 52 Old 03-27-2010, 11:04 PM
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having owned a Panny 50X1 for a few months now and it has 550 hours on it i honestly do not see how IR is such a major issue to the average person

does our Plasma get IR? yep.

do i see the IR when watching TV, Playing games? very rarely.

we use an Asus O!Play on it quite a bit to playback music on the stereo and its menu's can cause some major IR after quite a few hours but that is the only time i see it due to the very basic and mostly black menu's and screen saver it has built in.

switch back to TV and not one sign of IR with the vast majority of material.

watching during the day results in the IR with a black screen being about 5-10x harder to see as well.

lastly, it takes all of 10 min running the IR remover to get rid of the IR in a dark room to the point that you would seriously have to get up outta your chair and stand in front of the TV with a black screen in a dark room to see the slight IR that is still left.

so in short, I really do not see how IR bothers people to the point that they hate a TV at least on Panasonics, I could understand if IR was visible on anything other than a black screen in a dark room but its not so really what is the big deal overall?

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #27 of 52 Old 03-28-2010, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony6225 View Post

Just get an LCD dude. Trust me. Yes plasma still has slightly better PQ if you dont take into account that the only plasmas that can still keep up with current lcd's LOSE CONTRAST OVER TIME. Kuro's are gone, Pany's lose contrast, and Samsung's are IR magnets that produce lower contrast and the same amount of input lag compared to their LCD's. This isnt coming from some fanboy either. I have been arguing for plasmas for the last few years and I owned a PN50A650 which had banding and was replaced by a B550, and I also own a G10. I am a big gamer and I wish I just bought an lcd last year instead. I'm tired of seeing an ESPN logo's ghost in bottom right corner when Im playing MW2. I'm tired of seeing the IR from my Speedometer in Forza3 when I'm playing BF2. Its highly unlikely that you will ever get burn in, but if you are a gamer like me, you will never be able to escape from IR. You're constantly going to worry about whether or not your TV is going to get damaged if you have another 2 hour session of MW2. Do yourself a favor and find an lcd that is known to have a generally uniform screen and acceptable input lag. If Sony and Sammy didnt fix their bad input lag from their 09 models, LG's have always been great lcd's to game on.

That is some of the worst advice I've seen on these forums. IR does exist, but it is not a problem that people need to freak out about.

I was in this same situation 5 months ago when I needed a big screen for gaming. I did a ridiculous amount of research here on these forums and others as well.

First things first, and this is the important part. No big screen LCD has ever, nor will in the near future EVER compete with a plasma when it comes to gaming performance.

The issue is twofold. Let's get the easy thing out of the way first. Response times. The best big screen LCDs have a response time of 2ms. That's not bad at all, but it's no comparison to a plasma where response time is for all intents and purposes is non existent. .001ms means ZERO. There is no arguing this point and anyone who tells you differently is lying to your face.

The second issue is something that ALL HDTVs face to some degree, input lag. This is the delay from the time you press a button on a controller to the time it registers on the TV. Now this is something that is completely dependent on the manufacturer and the image processing the TV is using. Game modes cut down on most image processing features thus reducing the input lag. People on these forums have done tests for input lag on LCDs and plasmas and it was the G10 series that has the lowest amount of input lag. You should look those up because they were a big factor in my purchasing a G10.

If you are really intent on doing your own tests, it's pretty simple. Go to a store with the TVs you want to test or a friends place with rock band 2 and the guitar with the sensor that comes with the band kit. Turn on game mode for whatever screen you are testing and run the calibration. This might work best at someones house and not a store but it's a way you can do it yourself. I've tested using this process on a cheap Sony 32inch LCD, my G10, an S1, and a 7000 series LED LCD from Samsung. LCDs almost always have notoriously bad times for input lag especially Samsungs.

The people who tell you that they game on Samsung LCDs and it's perfectly fine are the people who aren't serious about gaming, or just aren't good at games, especially shooters. The response times and input lag is absolutely terrible and as far as I'm concerned, it's impossible to play games competitively on large screen LCDs.

I've played over 180 hours of Modern Warfare 2 and I can tell you without hesitation that the G10 plasmas provide the best experience to be had on a big screen. Despite the black level issues, if gaming in your main concern I still recommend a Panasonic plasma over anything else.

As far as IR goes, it happens. I've played MW2 and Assassin's Creed 2 for hours and there is almost always some part of the HUD that gets retained. The longest I've had something stay on the screen was a day after a marathon session of AC2. The important thing to remember about IR is that you won't notice it unless the screen is a solid color and you really need to look for it. I notice it because I sit about 3.5 feet away from a 54 inch screen.

BTW, it's funny that you said 90% gaming and 10% tv because when I doing my research I posted that I need a TV for gaming and my usage was going to be 80% gaming and 20% everything else. You might be able to find all the posts I made regarding this very issue.

So in conclusion if gaming is your concern, I recommend a Panasonic plasma over anything else. No issues with response time and the least issues with input lag. This comes from a guy who bought an HDTV for gaming and almost nothing else. DO NOT buy an LCD for gaming. You sound like you are serious about gaming and if performance matters, then your gameplay will suffer on an LCD, especially a Samsung.

One final thing, I know it sounds like I'm going out of my way to bash Samsung, but I've had really bad experiences when it comes to gaming on their LCDs. I think image quality on Samsung LCDs compared to other LCDs is the best and they are the best looking TVs being made right now, but they simply aren't for gaming. Always go plasma for gaming.
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post #28 of 52 Old 03-28-2010, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb32 View Post

Wow... pretty lame that you have to constantly maintain your baby... I guess you are not bothered by phosphor lag either, huh?

I meant after long, long sessions. Otherwise, I don't worry about it at all. And, no, phosphor lag isn't noticeable to me, so I'm very fortunate in that regard. I know some people are very sensitive to it.

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post #29 of 52 Old 03-28-2010, 01:39 AM
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I own a G15 & a LZ800.

Well if you intend to use the panel as a desktop computer, it's a no no with a Plasma. The dithering will make everything look worst.

If you intend for gaming only, Plasma is the way to go.
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post #30 of 52 Old 03-28-2010, 08:31 AM
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New to this thread, but the topic is relevant to where I'm at decision wise. Two questions:

1) What is this "IR" you are talking about? I know its not Infra Red, and looks to relate to burn-in somehow. Just not familiar with this particular use of that acronym.

2) How do DLP RPT sets fare input lag wise?

The reason for #2 is that I am trying to decide between a Mitsu 73" DLP (73837) and a Panasonic 65" Plasma. I'm leaning towards the Mitsu simply because where the TV will be there is a significant amount of light (even a skylight overhead) and I'm worried about reflection on the plasma. So if I am looking at a DLP, I'd like to know if anyone knows about Input Lag on this --- if there is any. Plasmas dont seem to have any, which is great! If RPTs are the same, then I can rule that out of my decision criteria.

I am a pretty hardcore gamer, especially FPS games, so its definitely something I have to account for.

Thanks
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