KuroControl program for Pioneer KRP500m/600m and Elites - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 341 Old 04-07-2010, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Talked to Pioneer support today. They told me that the hours counter has no impact on TV performance whatsoever.

Thanks for checking up on this! Its good to hear...

Also on a related note - ControlCal patched panels are being reported as European models instead of North American so I am quite sure that ControlCal is using the same mechanism to enable ISF modes for the KRPs..
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post #92 of 341 Old 04-07-2010, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TG_ONE View Post

The second time you go in to make a change to let's say ISF-day you have to switch the memory to somthing else then back to ISF-day or it won't save the changes to the monitor.

Are you sure? Take a look at my post above (#72) and see if that is what you are experiencing.


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post #93 of 341 Old 04-07-2010, 04:09 PM
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One final (well maybe ) request: Add a screen size dropdown list (SZM command) for setting the default size in ISF mode. Of course the workaround for most of us is to send SZMS00 via the Command box for dot-by-dot.


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post #94 of 341 Old 04-07-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Those are the non-ISF gamma commands and they don't work when ISF is active.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

You neeed enter your ISF gamma by entering values in the "ISF Gamma" grid. Bodosom posted the values earlier in this thread.

I wasn't aware ISF modes did not have this feature. Thank you both for the info.
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post #95 of 341 Old 04-07-2010, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Are you sure? Take a look at my post above (#72) and see if that is what you are experiencing.

Yes, Going in the second time I was adjusting primaries and monitoring with a meter on green. I made the adjustment pressed save ISF and when I pressed exit ISF I watched the green point return to the original value. It would save it if I switched to another memory and then back before making the adjustment. Maybe I am missing a step somewhere but this way worked for me.
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post #96 of 341 Old 04-07-2010, 07:24 PM
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I tried to activate the ISF modes on my 500m and my TV bricked...








Haha, just kidding!

I actually did activate the modes, and it worked like a charm. There were several times where the "Start ISF" didn't actually work (something about "Input string error" and stopping the load). Anyway, I felt I "messed" up a couple of times, but nothing serious happened.

The ISF-Day mode is amazing! It's well worth it to activate it. I think the KuroControl program is great. If you plan to use it, take it slow; if you do it too fast, stuff doesn't load all the way. I would do 1 input at a time, then exit and close the program, then manually switch the input with the remote, then do another input. Also, always remember to exit ISF before closing the program. Otherwise, I don't think anyone could mess up so badly that it would harm their TV, but then again, you use the program at your own risk.

Also, I have a question. When checking my Picture Settings, I see that Gamma is "3" and grayed out even though I manually set the color temperature. Is this correct?

Here's a picture of the ISF-Night:

***IMPORTANT CORRECTION: In the picture, my ISF gamma numbers are 9 and 10. This is INCORRECT! Please use 4 for -1 and 3 for -2!!! ***
LL
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post #97 of 341 Old 04-07-2010, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Traditional values included. Using the table below 4 is -1 is 2.2, 3 is -2 is 2.25.
Code:
value | gamma
1 -4  |  2.4
2 -3  |  2.3
3 -2  |  2.25
4 -1  |  2.2
5  0  |  2.1
6  1  |  2.0
7  2  |  1.95
8  3  |  1.9
9  4  |  1.85

Okay, I thought something was weird with the colors, so I changed the gamma to bodosom's values instead of "9" and "10", lol.
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post #98 of 341 Old 04-08-2010, 02:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TG_ONE View Post

Yes, Going in the second time I was adjusting primaries and monitoring with a meter on green. I made the adjustment pressed save ISF and when I pressed exit ISF I watched the green point return to the original value. It would save it if I switched to another memory and then back before making the adjustment. Maybe I am missing a step somewhere but this way worked for me.

This also happens if the AVS mode is set to something other then the ISF mode that you are calibrating - the ISF memory gets added, but when you exit, the AVS mode reverts back to what it was before..
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post #99 of 341 Old 04-08-2010, 08:14 PM
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Does this work with the Pro-151FD Elite?

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post #100 of 341 Old 04-09-2010, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

Does this work with the Pro-151FD Elite?

Based on the experience of others I vote no because:
- The command set on the 111/151 is quite limited.
- It is serial only.

The first bit means there's very little that be done via control commands and the second bit means it doesn't work over the network. I believe the network interface on the televisions is limited to HMG.


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post #101 of 341 Old 04-09-2010, 08:01 AM
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HMG = Home Media Gallery? Better than nothing I suppose. I'll try it and see what I can do.

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post #102 of 341 Old 04-09-2010, 05:38 PM
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I want to thank xsiv4ce again for making the KuroControl program.

I activated my ISF-Day on my 500m, and I loved my 500m before, but ISF-Day seriously takes the display on another level. My colors aren't perfect since I just used D-Nice's settings, but wow, I feel like a "veil" has been removed, and the display is so close to perfect (it'll probably be "perfect" once it's calibrated) that I'll have trouble justifying another display until my 500m breaks. I can barely even see the phosphor trails anymore in videogames, which bugged me before.

Anyway, for those interested in activating their ISF modes with the KuroControl program, here's what happened for me:

1) I connected to my 500m
2) Waited for it to load all the settings
3) Pressed the Change button next to Model:
4) A box popped up with 2 options "Pioneer 50 Europe" and "Pioneer 50 Japan" and a warning saying that the program will disconnect, and the TV will need to turn off after it says "Turn TV off." on the TV
5) I clicked on Pioneer 50 Europe and pressed Ok
6) The program froze, I went to check out the TV, which said to turn it off, so I did (with the TV remote)
7) After I turned off the TV, the program unfroze and I closed it, reopened, and started the whole ISF activation procedure
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post #103 of 341 Old 04-09-2010, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

Does this work with the Pro-151FD Elite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Based on the experience of others I vote no because:
- The command set on the 111/151 is quite limited.
- It is serial only.

The first assertion is probably incorrect. A 151/111 reference may have a more comprehensive listing of commands including the ones used by ControlCAL to set up ISF modes. Or it may work completely differently. In either case it's probably simpler and more cost effective to get ControlCAL.


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post #104 of 341 Old 04-09-2010, 08:29 PM
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I have a ControlCal License I bought when I wanted to use it with the 150, but just downloaded the new version so I can use it with the 151. Thanks for the help.

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post #105 of 341 Old 04-10-2010, 01:57 AM
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Just enabled all ISF day/night modes on my 500M tonight thanks to KuroControl. Wow do they ever look great! As if the PQ isn't ridiculous enough as it is...

I've never calibrated anything in my life so I was a little nervous as this is uncharted territory for me. After reading both this and the KuroReader threads very carefully I decided to take the plunge. Because once you understand what this program does, you realize that it cannot brick your TV. Correct me if I'm wrong but all it's doing is sending commands, it's not replacing the firmware.

Here's a quick newbie step-by-step guide:

-Connect any computer with a network port to your KRP/Elite Kuro with a crossover cable.
-Download KuroReader, read the thread, and get your network settings working. This was actually the hardest part for me. (Also note the number of usage hours in the service menu; the next step erased mine.)
-Now run KuroControl and follow the steps provided. The scariest part is when you change to the Euro model, but it only takes 2 seconds and then you restart your TV. Voila.
-Turn back on your Kuro, re-enable IP Control and restart KuroControl. Now follow the steps to enable ISF.

The program is not perfect but overall it's very simple to use. Even if you get errors or hit the wrong buttons you won't mess anything up. The TV will just keep saying "no" until you give it the proper command. When in doubt, just exit ISF, restart the program and try again. Also, hitting "refresh" solved a problem where I was unable to enter RGB values.

And if you enter any reference settings (D-Nice), make sure you save it to an xml file so you don't have to manually enter the numbers every time for each input.

Thanks again to xsiv4ce and his generous donation of his time so we can take our Kuros to the next level. ISF modes are awesome!
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post #106 of 341 Old 04-10-2010, 03:14 AM
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I just used the program on my 600M, Amazing! The PQ is on a different level now. Blacks are inky, colors are outstanding with a few minor tweaks.

This thread is gonna get interesting when people start posting their own XML files for day/night.
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post #107 of 341 Old 04-10-2010, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trem0lo View Post

And if you enter any reference settings (D-Nice), make sure you save it to an xml file so you don't have to manually enter the numbers every time for each input.

Thanks again to xsiv4ce and his generous donation of his time so we can take our Kuros to the next level. ISF modes are awesome!

Grats on the ISF modes!

How is ISF-Day w/ D-Nice's settings looking on your 500m? I really like it except on some of the highlights, there's an odd overblown cream color (e.g. when the sun is on someone's face). Do you see any of this? It only happens on really bright portions of the content.

Also, have you tried the KuroReader? For some reason, my KuroReader can't read the ISF gamma settings when I press "Get Settings."
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post #108 of 341 Old 04-10-2010, 01:56 PM
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FWIW, one of the reputable calibrators on this forum told me he doesn't recommend using this program. He says that changing the display to the Euro model is not the proper way to active ISFccc modes and that it will cause more harm than good. I asked him about the program because he is calibrating my display next week and I'd rather not pay for the ControlCal patch if KuroControl was safe and he could use it to calibrate 500m.
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post #109 of 341 Old 04-10-2010, 02:07 PM
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I think this is actually what bodosom said as well in differnt words - that you are better off getting the patch and then using KuroControl once you have the modes activated.

It seems like there isn't much difference between what the two do, but since ControlCal is not open source we have no way of knowing. Also, I expect that calibrators may be more comfortable using ControlCal since it's more "official" and maybe sanctioned by Pioneer.

Functionally, it seems like they are doing the same thing though.
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post #110 of 341 Old 04-10-2010, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powertoold View Post

For some reason, my KuroReader can't read the ISF gamma settings when I press "Get Settings."

(off topic)Sometimes KuroReader will timeout when reading gamma. And if you press Get Settings again, it appends the next settings to the Kuro Settings window, so you need to use the scroll bar to view the last appended settings at the bottom of the page. Or you can press the Clear button and then press Get Settings again to see current readings at the top of the page. If you need more help, post any issues in the KR thread (see my sig link).


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post #111 of 341 Old 04-10-2010, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

Also on a related note - ControlCal patched panels are being reported as European models instead of North American ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsxn View Post

changing the display to the Euro model is not the proper way to active ISFccc modes and that it will cause more harm than good.

The relevant issues have been discussed in the KRP thread. If someone reports a NA-KRP with ISF modes enabled via any program and FST* is equal to 95 or 96 (the North American codes for 500/600) then that's evidence of an alternate method. I think it's worth remember that there were always concerns about voiding the Pioneer warranty when enabling ISF and to date there's been no official statement from Pioneer about it. All methods I'm aware of reset the transient hour counter. ControlCAL provides an ISF "undo" for service which also resets the transient hour counter.

*Anyone can use KuroControl to send the FST and share the results.


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post #112 of 341 Old 04-10-2010, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikk7 View Post

This thread is gonna get interesting when people start posting their own XML files for day/night.

Anyone have something to share for the 101FD yet?
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post #113 of 341 Old 04-11-2010, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The relevant issues have been discussed in the KRP thread. If someone reports a NA-KRP with ISF modes enabled via any program and FST* is equal to 81 or 82 (the North American codes for 500/600) then that's evidence of an alternate method. I think it's worth remember that there were always concerns about voiding the Pioneer warranty when enabling ISF and to date there's been no official statement from Pioneer about it. All methods I'm aware of reset the transient hour counter. ControlCAL provides an ISF "undo" for service which also resets the transient hour counter.

*Anyone can use KuroControl to send the FST and share the results.

First, Let me thank xsiv4ce for what a great job that you have done for this community, we can not thank you enough for sharing your hard work with us!

For FST code, my set's original code was S95 for a NA model 500m, after changing it to EU model, it now reports S91:

FSTS91 - set to European
FSTS95 - set to North American

I think ControlCal uses the exact same method to enable ISF mode on KRP, otherwise, "patched" units won't show up as EU model. Regarding warranty, IMHO, regardless which way you go (ControlCal or KuroControl), we will be in some kind of gray area if we enable ISF mode. If ControlCal were OK, Turbe would never provide a rollback program to reverse it for service call, but you can do it using command FSTS95 via KuroControl anyway (or via netcat - ethernet or a terminal using RS232).

KuroControl works great! I have my set's ISF modes enabled and calibrated with very nice results with an EyeOne Lite. If there are interest, I can post my setting and charts.

Once again, big thank you to xsiv4ce!

Dong99
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post #114 of 341 Old 04-11-2010, 08:36 AM
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I posted my comments about this in the main KRP thread, but I just wanted to thank xsiv4ce for his excellent program. ISF modes are a beauty.
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post #115 of 341 Old 04-11-2010, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powertoold View Post

Grats on the ISF modes!

How is ISF-Day w/ D-Nice's settings looking on your 500m? I really like it except on some of the highlights, there's an odd overblown cream color (e.g. when the sun is on someone's face). Do you see any of this? It only happens on really bright portions of the content.

I haven't noticed the cream color yet, no. Admittedly I haven't had the chance to watch too many movies on the ISF modes yet. I'll keep my eyes open for it. Did you enter the 9 point gamma correctly in KuroControl? The numbers to represent -1 and -2 are 4 and 3. I was a little confused about that when I did it.
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post #116 of 341 Old 04-11-2010, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsxn View Post

FWIW, one of the reputable calibrators on this forum told me he doesn't recommend using this program. He says that changing the display to the Euro model is not the proper way to active ISFccc modes and that it will cause more harm than good. I asked him about the program because he is calibrating my display next week and I'd rather not pay for the ControlCal patch if KuroControl was safe and he could use it to calibrate 500m.

My best quess is that the isf patch form controlcal and the kurocontrol work in a similar fashion. " reputable calibrators" are in the business of making money and will not necessarily show you the cheapest solution to the problem.
Neither method is officially sanctioned by Pioneer so you void your warranty with either method.
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post #117 of 341 Old 04-11-2010, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trem0lo View Post

I haven't noticed the cream color yet, no. Admittedly I haven't had the chance to watch too many movies on the ISF modes yet. I'll keep my eyes open for it. Did you enter the 9 point gamma correctly in KuroControl? The numbers to represent -1 and -2 are 4 and 3. I was a little confused about that when I did it.

Yup, my gamma numbers are correct now. Initially, I used 9 and 8 but knew something was wrong with the colors after setting it. Bodosom posted the right values here:

1 -4 | 2.4
2 -3 | 2.3
3 -2 | 2.25
4 -1 | 2.2
5 0 | 2.1
6 1 | 2.0
7 2 | 1.95
8 3 | 1.9
9 4 | 1.85

About the odd looking highlights, I'm not seeing it as much anymore. Only on a few occasions where the lighting is bright and there are some spectacular highlights do I notice it (e.g. on an elephant in the sun).
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post #118 of 341 Old 04-11-2010, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

If someone reports a NA-KRP with ISF modes enabled via any program and FST* is equal to 81 or 82 (the North American codes for 500/600) then that's evidence of an alternate method.

^Those are the Elite 101/141 codes (it's difficult to read the small font in the SM). The NA-KRP codes are FST 95 and 96 (500/600M) as Dong99 noted for his 500M above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dong99 View Post

Regarding warranty, IMHO, regardless which way you go (ControlCal or KuroControl), we will be in some kind of gray area if we enable ISF mode.

True, but there may be an advantage for ControlCal users possibly leveraging Turbe's assistance and Pioneer contacts if a warranty issue comes up.


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post #119 of 341 Old 04-11-2010, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umass66 View Post

My best quess is that the isf patch form controlcal and the kurocontrol work in a similar fashion.

False

Quote:


" reputable calibrators" are in the business of making money and will not necessarily show you the cheapest solution to the problem.

Since I was the one who provided that comment, I know you are wrong. I recommend to my customers the best practices based on what I know. Price is irrelevant to me unless the customer clearly states they want to go the "cheapest" route.

Quote:


Neither method is officially sanctioned by Pioneer so you void your warranty with either method.

Pioneer is out of the display market and will no longer make any third party application "official". However, one will receive far more technical support (including assistance from Pioneer) if they go the ControlCAL route.


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post #120 of 341 Old 04-11-2010, 12:14 PM
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D-Nice, thanks for clarifying all of this.

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