The Official Samsung PNxxC6500, PNxxC7000, and PNxxC8000 Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

From the Milori Trichromat-1 specifications:
Luminance Range: 0.05 800 cd/m2
.05 cd/m2 is 0.014593175 fL.
I have found this meter to give stable, repeatable, and believable (agrees with what I see) readings even far below that number. Now, it won't accurately measure the black level on a 9G Kuro, though.

The problem when you are dealing, as we are here, with light levels on the edge of the meter's accuracy is that you never know if you are within it or outside it, consistent or not. Get a real light meter and eliminate any doubt about the measurements.

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post #152 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PoorGuySansTV View Post

Thanks for the review Chad. I have been waiting for this. Will you be updating your website's ratings index with the latest reviews?

I will try to get to it soon.
I am thinking about ways I can revamp the ratings to make sure the proper emphasis is placed on the various picture aspects without splitting hairs.

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post #153 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

The problem when you are dealing, as we are here, with light levels on the edge of the meter's accuracy is that you never know if you are within it or outside it, consistent or not. Get a real light meter and eliminate any doubt about the measurements.

In this case, there's more doubt about things like sample to sample variation, possible change during break in, image retention influence, etc than the meter's accuracy.

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post #154 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

In this case, there's more doubt about things like sample to sample variation, possible change during break in, image retention influence, etc than the meter's accuracy.

Hey Chad when you saw all three brands (panny, samsung, lg) did you note how they handled standard def?
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post #155 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

In this case, there's more doubt about things like sample to sample variation, possible change during break in, image retention influence, etc than the meter's accuracy.

I'm disappointed that you think that. There are always variables that you can't control. You can control this one.

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post #156 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrist View Post

Hey Chad when you saw all three brands (panny, samsung, lg) did you note how they handled standard def?

No, I only looked at Blu Ray program material. I may start checking 480i composite video, though.

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post #157 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

No, I only looked at Blu Ray program material. I may start checking 480i composite video, though.

hey chad was there a big difference in the black levels from the samsung to the panny just by eye without all the technical stuff?
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post #158 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I'm disappointed that you think that. There are always variables that you can't control. You can control this one.

I've used this meter for years and have become very comfortable and familiar with it's limitations; I have no doubt of it's accuracy at these (or similar) levels.

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post #159 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by aim1126 View Post

hey chad was there a big difference in the black levels from the samsung to the panny just by eye without all the technical stuff?

Depends on who you ask, but yes. There was not that much difference between the LG and Sammy, though, but the Sammy's blacks were very slightly greenish tinged. Not nearly to the point of being bothersome; just enough to be noticeable.

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post #160 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 07:56 AM
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So wait, the C7000 has worse black levels than last year's comparable B650?
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post #161 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by NOAMattD View Post

So wait, the C7000 has worse black levels than last year's comparable B650?

it looks like it
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post #162 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:16 AM
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it looks like it

this sucks .. i was looking forward to the samsung. I didn't expect it to be as black as the panasonics, but didn't think it would be worse then last year .
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post #163 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:19 AM
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Looks like the focus was on 3D this year.
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post #164 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:20 AM
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Big mistake Sammy. B860 had great color accuracy already, now it appears that it had lower black levels as well. Shame on you sammy! Grab the 860 or 650 while they last I guess. My hope was that these would measure well thus you could figure that the C6500 would do fairly well for those of us that do not want to pay for 3d, but now it looks like the 2009's were better.
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post #165 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOAMattD View Post

So wait, the C7000 has worse black levels than last year's comparable B650?

According to Chad's readout, the C7000's black levels are about three times worse than the midrange B650 Samsung plasma from 2009.


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for my home theater setup
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post #166 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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You guys are getting all disappointed on a TV that you have not even seen. Black levels where not grey. They may have been 1 to 2 shades off of the G25 sitting right next to it.

-- One thing is for sure, maybe these 3D tv's are different as far as plasma goes, when we test a VT25 we will know for sure ( I guess we could test a C550, but I fear I would get stuck with it as that unit is getting no love. )

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post #167 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:42 AM
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ChadB, did you calibrate under controlled conditions? (a completely dark room) How long had the set been broken in for before you got ahold of it?


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post #168 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I've used this meter for years and have become very comfortable and familiar with it's limitations; I have no doubt of it's accuracy at these (or similar) levels.

How do you know if you have never used a real light meter to compare?

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post #169 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

You guys are getting all disappointed on a TV that you have not even seen. Black levels where not grey. They may have been 1 to 2 shades off of the G25 sitting right next to it.

-- One thing is for sure, maybe these 3D tv's are different as far as plasma goes, when we test a VT25 we will know for sure ( I guess we could test a C550, but I fear I would get stuck with it as that unit is getting no love. )

ya but the contrast level was kinda low from the readings

and ya guess we have to wait for the vt25
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post #170 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:46 AM
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The black level was measured with 45fl light output.
The normal mode has only a light output of 19fl.

I am wondering what the blacklevel would when setting the light output
not as high as 45fl?

Regards
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post #171 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

You guys are getting all disappointed on a TV that you have not even seen. Black levels where not grey. They may have been 1 to 2 shades off of the G25 sitting right next to it.

-- One thing is for sure, maybe these 3D tv's are different as far as plasma goes, when we test a VT25 we will know for sure ( I guess we could test a C550, but I fear I would get stuck with it as that unit is getting no love. )

thats true, i will hold judgement until i get my set next week
but you definitely should check out the c550 just for comparasion reasons as theres no other 2010 samsumg plasmas available
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post #172 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by G20Fan View Post

.033 black level? LOL Glad i go the G20 becasue even if the blakc level rises..it will still be better than samsungs plasmas

Seriously. 0.006-.007fL multiplied by 3 is still .018-.021 fL.
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post #173 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aim1126 View Post

thats true, i will hold judgement until i get my set next week
but you definitely should check out the c550 just for comparasion reasons as theres no other 2010 samsumg plasmas available

I am not going to test a TV that might not sell in the future. We get $0 cash from anyone to review units.
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How do you know if you have never used a real light meter to compare?

I trust Chads judgement, along with many others. We get $0 cash from anyone to review units. If someone would like to send us different meters at no cost to use, PM us and we will send an address to ship to. When Chad comes out he has about $12K worth of test equipment. We would love to get some free calibration gear to test out for people

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post #174 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

ChadB, did you calibrate under controlled conditions? (a completely dark room) How long had the set been broken in for before you got ahold of it?

Yes, it was dark. I am not sure about break in time; it was playing the break in DVD when I got there earlier that day, but I am not there every day.

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post #175 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I am not going to test a TV that might not sell in the future. We get $0 cash from anyone to review units.

haha that is true, why do you think that there hasnt been any love for the c550, i saw one at the store and didnt think it was bad at all, i actually liked it a lot
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post #176 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:13 AM
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chad why did you have to do this to me

i wanted 3d but panasonics are more expensive , but after seeing this review of the 7000, and i'm pretty sure the 8000 will not be too different, i might have to go with panasonics.

I was going to get the 58 sammy now i got to get the 54 panny ( due to price )
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post #177 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

How do you know if you have never used a real light meter to compare?

As I pointed out earlier, this is well within (more than a factor of 2) the meter's specified range, and the readings I have gotten from that meter have been consistent and agreed with what I see even below it's specified range.

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post #178 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:15 AM
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Not going to get all hung up on measurements but I admit I'm a bit disappointed it doesn't match at last year's black level numbers (but then again its just this one unit and this one calibrator's result). Lets see how it goes as more sets get out there. However overall PQ, features and aesthetics is what I'm most interested in and Cleveland Plasma thinks this set is a good set by all accounts so I'm hopeful I'll be satisfied when mine come in. If its that horrible I can just return and move on but still hoping is not as bad as a single measurement makes it to be as some here are speculating!
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post #179 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:23 AM
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Not going to get all hung up on measurements but I admit I'm a bit disappointed it doesn't match at last year's black level numbers (but then again its just this one unit and this one calibrator's result). Lets see how it goes as more sets get out there. However overall PQ, features and aesthetics is what I'm most interested in and Cleveland Plasma thinks this set is a good set by all accounts so I'm hopeful I'll be satisfied when mine come in. If its that horrible I can just return and move on but still hoping is not as bad as a single measurement makes it to be as some here are speculating!

Good thinking. I wouldn't let one measurement on one sample be the final word either.
My final thoughts on the subject are this: when all 3 tvs were lined up side by side in the dark and fed a 0% signal, yes, the blacks on the LG and Sammy looked a couple shades lighter than the Panny. To some people who view in a totally dark room, that may be a big deal. To other people who view with a lamp on, especially if the lamp is in front of the TV, it will not be a big deal. There is sample to sample variation to consider. The one I measured may measure on the high side of normal for that model. The C7000 does a lot of things right; there are many other factors that should be taken into account.

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Chad B is online now  
post #180 of 7951 Old 04-09-2010, 09:35 AM
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I was at bb over the weekend, and I saw a led un46b7100 next to plasma pn50c550, I don'tkniw what kind of settings the led had, but the blacks were so dark in the plasma that the led looks grey. I was really impress with the c550. I was waiting for the reviews of the c8000, and the vt25. Know I'm a little desapointed in the c7000.

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