LG also has floating blacks, probably worse than Panasonic - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 116 Old 07-15-2010, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp View Post

all i need is the pj350's service menu. than im out. but out of a million people no one knows the dam thing. lol. my set doesn't suffer what yours does. but the colors shift on bright scenes. I seen it a couple times but it's not a big deal. but i bet its correctable in the dam service menu.

Good luck with the service menu. I'm sure you will be as successful with that as you are with constructing sentences.
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post #92 of 116 Old 07-15-2010, 04:01 PM
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would you like to teach me to write please..... i'll teach you how to fight! cut down trees, catch crabs, fish, & how to get laid. lol. how about that. you want to trade.
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post #93 of 116 Old 07-15-2010, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp View Post

would you like to teach me to write please..... i'll teach you how to fight! cut down trees, catch crabs, fish, & how to get laid. lol. how about that. you want to trade.

I get the feeling that the "catch crabs, fish, & how to get laid" lessons are all one lesson.
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post #94 of 116 Old 07-15-2010, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

is there a small claims court in Spain? Are you in Spain?

Yes, I'm in Spain, and there's something similar to small claims: under 900€ you don't need a solicitor. It can still be quite expensive though, and IANAL.
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post #95 of 116 Old 07-16-2010, 01:29 AM
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Try contacting:

Netherlands
LGESC(LG Electronics European Shared Service Center B.V.)

SSC


Veluwezoom 15,
1327AE Almere, The Netherlands

Telephone:

31-36-5478-888

31-36-5478-795


and ask for mediation.


I can eventually contact them if you find someone there picking up your case and supply them your testfiles and this internet story.
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post #96 of 116 Old 07-16-2010, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Marconist,

Might you be able to post a video clip for him, showing how the demo looks on your set? That way, he would be able to demonstrate the difference to LG.


Not much of an argument to them, I fear.
A side-by-side comparision in a demoroom or so is what he needs.

Or just someone at LG that cares about his case.
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post #97 of 116 Old 07-16-2010, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp View Post

would you like to teach me to write please..... i'll teach you how to fight! cut down trees, catch crabs, fish, & how to get laid. lol. how about that. you want to trade.


I thought you were dead!

http://gawker.com/5587210/the-deadli...yline=true&s=i
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post #98 of 116 Old 07-16-2010, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconist View Post

Try contacting:

Netherlands
LGESC(LG Electronics European Shared Service Center B.V.)

Thanks for the tip, but I think that department has a different purpose: googling for LGESC I found this job offering where they describe LGESC as providing "services to 14 European Marketing & Sales Subsidiaries, in the following areas: Tax, Legal, Treasury, Insurances, Accounting and Standards."

No product support.

Maybe LGELS (LG Electronics European Logistics & Services B.V.).
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post #99 of 116 Old 07-16-2010, 04:46 AM
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Give it a try.
These departments are all in the same location, so the telephone operator can probably help you find the right person.
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post #100 of 116 Old 07-16-2010, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olivluca View Post

I considered the option (I only have 2 days left, though, since a repair has a warranty of just 3 months and it's clear now that they tried to delay the issue).
However, in one of his messages the LG rep told me that the service center did the right thing, they contacted the product engineers and they confirmed that my panel is working fine.


You did make the complaint, and request service, because the repairs were not done right, within the 90 day period. You can document that. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that you have only have a ninety day window, in which to wrap everything up. Also; it continues to be an open complaint from back when they took your set into the shop, on the original service call.

If you bought it at a local merchant, go into that store and tell your entire story to the manager. Take your wife with you, and if you have a child or two, take them along. Go in at a time when there are sure to be a reasonable number of shoppers in the video area. Plead with him to help you out by following up with LG to get your set fixed or replaced. Be very reasonable sounding. If the manager refuses to help you out, then you can start to mention that you will be forced to sue the store. At that time, you can start to speak just loud enough, spelling out how LG broke your set, and refuses to even come back and repair it, so that other shoppers can hear what you are saying. Do not shout; just elevate your voice, just enough to where the manager will see that other shoppers are getting the wrong impression about how he looks after customers.
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post #101 of 116 Old 07-16-2010, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

You did make the complaint, and request service, because the repairs were not done right, within the 90 day period. You can document that. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that you have only have a ninety day window, in which to wrap everything up. Also; it continues to be an open complaint from back when they took your set into the shop, on the original service call.

Yes, I can document everything, since I always used their web form (no public email address is available) and I have all the replies, quoting my original message.
But the fact is that they maintain that the repair was done properly and everything is fine

Edit: I'll see if the THX guys reply to my request, I hope they'll say that's not acceptable for a thx certified panel to behave that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

If you bought it at a local merchant, go into that store and tell your entire story to the manager.

I didn't buy from a local merchant
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post #102 of 116 Old 07-16-2010, 12:23 PM
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Write a formal business letter and send it by registered post to a high-level executive at LG (how about Simon Kang, the President and CEO of LG Electronics?). Send another copy to the LG Marketing office in Spain.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. An executive does not like complaints on his desk and has the authority to make things happen.

Make sure you write a respectful complaint letter. You can find online tips for this. Example: http://www.writinghelp-central.com/a...nt-letter.html

My Sandy Bridge Gaming/HTPC Build

Cyrix PR166+ → AMD K6 200 → Intel Celeron 266 → AMD Athlon 1GHz → AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ → Intel i5-2500K
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post #103 of 116 Old 07-17-2010, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, keeping in mind this message from offlines, I played today my test videos and the tv doesn't do it anymore.

Am I happy? Definitely not: the black level is now always high and I'm left with no recourse to complain

The only test that still shows a fluctuation (and quite a big one) is playing these pictures, with the 10% square the black is fantastic, with any other square (smaller or bigger) the black is pure s**t, every other fluctuation you see in the video is no longer present



Folks, beware with LG, they surely know this, that's probably why they told me to wait.
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post #104 of 116 Old 07-17-2010, 12:40 PM
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So, you have just encountered an entirely new defect. Therefore you can get in touch with their tech support people, and request that they start a brand new service ticket. Close the book on the old one.

Do not rely strictly on email or text communications. Call and speak to some people in tech support.

I saw where you responded to me; saying that you did not purchase from a local vendor. Did you purchase it online? You still should call who ever you purchased it from, and ask for them to help you out, by talking to LG, in order to get your set fixed. It is still under warranty, so the vendor should be willing to help you get it fixed or replaced.
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post #105 of 116 Old 07-17-2010, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

So, you have just encountered an entirely new defect.

It's not new, I already reported it to them before starting this thread.
In fact I thought that it was quite definitive, since, contrary to what they said, it clearly shows that the panel is perfectly capable to achieve a good black (heck, a perfect black) even when excited with a bright detail (the 10% square).
But, no, they said it's normal

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Therefore you can get in touch with their tech support people, and request that they start a brand new service ticket. Close the book on the old one.

It's not up to me, they won't

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Do not rely strictly on email or text communications. Call and speak to some people in tech support.

I already called the service center, they told me to contact LG. I prefer written communication since, at least, I have some proof of what happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

I saw where you responded to me; saying that you did not purchase from a local vendor. Did you purchase it online? You still should call who ever you purchased it from, and ask for them to help you out, by talking to LG, in order to get your set fixed. It is still under warranty, so the vendor should be willing to help you get it fixed or replaced.

I'll try, thanks.
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post #106 of 116 Old 07-17-2010, 01:03 PM
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You should call LG customer support. Not the repair people. They are not authorized to deal with it, until they get ordered to do so by LG Customer Service. Written documentation is fine, but it also allows them to pick and choose how they want to deal with you.

It has gotten you no where. For cripes sake; call the LG Customer Service people, and start having some real time conversations with them.

Be polite, and just explain to them what the problem is, and would they please send out a service person to fix it.

Stop sending in video clips, and relying on online communications. You are just hurting your chances. Call LG Customer Service. That is what it is set up for. Do not dialog online with them. Talk to them on a real phone; you know, where you can respond, and they can ask questions, on a real time basis.

Perhaps you should have your wife make the call, since you may bring too much emotional baggage, from the past history, into play.

You have nothing to lose. If you get no the first time. Call back at a different time of day. Calling customer service is like rolling dice. Keep calling until you get someone reasonable on the phone. Of course you or your wife should make sure to sound very calm and reasonable.

Customer Service phone staff get shouted at a lot, so they appreciate it when someone treats them in respectful and courteous manner.
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post #107 of 116 Old 07-17-2010, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I don't really think I can pursue this any further.
Yes, I can call LG and complain...about what? Black level? "Boo hoo, call us back when the green starts failing".
Look what happened to offlines, in a different country, they scheduled a service call and the service center found the black level ok.
After all, even if my model was top of the line in 2009, we must never forget that LG is a budget brand, so we can't really expect for them to be better than the expensive brands
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post #108 of 116 Old 07-18-2010, 06:41 AM
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Just FYI: I emulated the floating black test on my US model 50PK750. My set does not exhibit floating blacks in standard or THX picture modes. Turning Dynamic contrast ON / OFF makes no difference. My set is running firmware version 05.00.00, build date: February 2010 with 417 hours run time.
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post #109 of 116 Old 07-22-2010, 05:58 AM
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Hi guys.
I've the same problem of olivluca, and the LG assistance says is not a problem.
with the new test, I've the same strange black with 10% white.
I say strange because the black is REAL (spyder2 says 0.00) and it's not normal at all.
My doubt is that in 1 or 2 years the black come more gray than now..

Sorry (always) for my english
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post #110 of 116 Old 07-24-2010, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterfry View Post

Just FYI: I emulated the floating black test on my US model 50PK750. My set does not exhibit floating blacks in standard or THX picture modes. Turning Dynamic contrast ON / OFF makes no difference. My set is running firmware version 05.00.00, build date: February 2010 with 417 hours run time.

Film it?
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post #111 of 116 Old 07-29-2010, 07:48 PM
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Here is a short video of olivluca's floating black test played directly from the Netcast YouTube client on my 2010 LG 50PK750.

&fs=1" width="644" height="390">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&fs=1" />[ATTN POSTER: YouTube Insert Error: Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly. Click here to see how YouTube videos should be embedded. There could also be a technical issue that's not your fault. Click 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" target="_blank">here to view the video on YouTube's site. If this link doesn't work, you did something wrong.]

The video quality is not very good but you can see the black level is not floating.
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post #112 of 116 Old 07-30-2010, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
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@sterfry, as I said, even my set has stopped doing the floating thing, however it still shows a strange effect with these pictures.
Put the first six or seven on an usb stick and look at them with the integrated photo viewer in slide show mode (supposing that the pk750 has one). Edit: and make sure to hide the menu bar on the tv, otherwise it will affect the result.
As reported by me, offlines and in another forum, while all other images show a piss poor black (previously floating, now just awful black), the 10% square shows a perfect black.
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post #113 of 116 Old 07-30-2010, 06:35 AM
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@olivluca, I saw your earlier post about your black level no longer floating. I posted the video at the request of TomGreen321.

With the images you provided my TV does exhibit a lower black level on the 10% square if I set the images to advance automatically - no menus showing. I haven't noticed the black levels fluctuating with normal video content.

I knew the PK750 wasn't going to be perfect. I thought it was an acceptable compromise of performance, features and price.
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post #114 of 116 Old 07-30-2010, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterfry View Post

With the images you provided my TV does exhibit a lower black level on the 10% square if I set the images to advance automatically - no menus showing.

That's interesting, since up until now everybody that tested could see the same. so it seems it is indeed a feature of these panels and not a sporadic incident (though the statistical sample is still too small).
It could be that 10% white is the level they use to calibrate the panels, hence the perfect black, or that these panel are capable of kuro like blacks, but the feature will be unlocked in 2011 or 2012 models
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post #115 of 116 Old 08-27-2010, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Another case has been reported.
The sample is growing and I suppose it will grow more once people start looking for the issue.
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post #116 of 116 Old 10-04-2010, 02:39 PM
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I actually just bought a PJ350 over the weekend and have noticed a problem when watching blu-ray, for some reason only blu-ray.

If there is a dark scene that quickly goes to light, or vice versa, there are sections of the image that fade to black and white.

Anyone else had that problem?
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