My view on the C7000 Samsung plasma - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Im2sexy View Post

Links to these reports please.

Whats been proved wrong? I do a lot of reading thank you very much.

Rising blacks. You don't need post for proof. Call panasonic for yourself and ask. They'll tell you it's a "feature."
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post #92 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 08:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Rising blacks. You don't need post for proof. Call panasonic for yourself and ask. They'll tell you it's a "feature."

Umm yeah Panasonic claimed it was a feature last year and the rise was very drastic. I have yet to see someone post NUMBERS that they have measured out in the real world from a 2010 rising. Proof is not asking a corporation. Proof is backing up what someone claims with hard FACTS.
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post #93 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 09:15 AM
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Come on...

It is being blown out of proportion...

Did the 2009 models have it - yes...

Where the 2010 models re-designed - yes...

Will the 2010 models have it - they "might", but it won't be near as bad as the 2009 and will probably only be "visible" to videophiles....


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post #94 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 10:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Come on...

It is being blown out of proportion...

Did the 2009 models have it - yes...

Where the 2010 models re-designed - yes...

Will the 2010 models have it - they "might", but it won't be near as bad as the 2009 and will probably only be "visible" to videophiles....


All I was asking for was links to whoever has been measuring to see if there was a rise and all I got was crap and an attitude for no reason. "Call Panasonic" yeah like 20 different people cant call them and get 20 different answers WTF. Or being told to read, if these 2 are so up on it they should be able to easily provide links to posts or information. Guess FACTS are too much to ask for on an A/V SCIENCE forum
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post #95 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 10:37 AM
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I have a C7000 and a quick note regarding input lag: it is atrocious unless the set is in Game mode. I started MLB: The Show 2010 and trying to pitch or hit was nearly impossible. Input lag is imperceptible to me in Game mode, but it irks me that there is no game mode button on the remote and the option is buried within the menu structure...you have to go all the way to the general settings table and activate or deactivate it there. For comparison's sake, the G25 I returned had no noticeable input lag in any mode.
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post #96 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Im2sexy View Post

All I was asking for was links to whoever has been measuring to see if there was a rise and all I got was crap and an attitude for no reason. "Call Panasonic" yeah like 20 different people cant call them and get 20 different answers WTF. Or being told to read, if these 2 are so up on it they should be able to easily provide links to posts or information. Guess FACTS are too much to ask for on an A/V SCIENCE forum

This has been discussed to death......

Like the other poster said, the 2010's will rise, but at a much slower rate.
What should be discussed more is value. Also you have to remember that everyone has different values, and opinions.

Here's a LINK.......(I just Googled, "will my panasonic's blacks rise", pretty easy.)
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post #97 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elixxxer View Post

I have a C7000 and a quick note regarding input lag: it is atrocious unless the set is in Game mode. I started MLB: The Show 2010 and trying to pitch or hit was nearly impossible. Input lag is imperceptible to me in Game mode, but it irks me that there is no game mode button on the remote and the option is buried within the menu structure...you have to go all the way to the general settings table and activate or deactivate it there. For comparison's sake, the G25 I returned had no noticeable input lag in any mode.

Good point,
I also wish there was a "GameMode" button, also a "Pixel Shift" button.
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post #98 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 11:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectronicTonic View Post

This has been discussed to death......

Like the other poster said, the 2010's will rise, but at a much slower rate.
What should be discussed more is value. Also you have to remember that everyone has different values, and opinions.

Here's a LINK.......(I just Googled, "will my panasonic's blacks rise", pretty easy.)

I know all about that cnet link and I know how to use google

I was talking about measurements from THIS YEARS MODELS, FACTS MAN FACT. WE NEED NUMBERS THIS IS A SCIENCE FORUM!!!!
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post #99 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Im2sexy View Post


All I was asking for was links to whoever has been measuring to see if there was a rise and all I got was crap and an attitude for no reason. "Call Panasonic" yeah like 20 different people cant call them and get 20 different answers WTF. Or being told to read, if these 2 are so up on it they should be able to easily provide links to posts or information. Guess FACTS are too much to ask for on an A/V SCIENCE forum

As I said. READ BEFORE YOU POST. You are in the wrong thread to talk about rising blacks. See the title? READ THE TITLE. Now go find the CORRECT thread to ask that question. Advice. Use the dam search feature on this site. YOU WILL get plenty of results talking of 2010 black level rise.
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post #100 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elixxxer View Post

I have a C7000 and a quick note regarding input lag: it is atrocious unless the set is in Game mode. I started MLB: The Show 2010 and trying to pitch or hit was nearly impossible. Input lag is imperceptible to me in Game mode, but it irks me that there is no game mode button on the remote and the option is buried within the menu structure...you have to go all the way to the general settings table and activate or deactivate it there. For comparison's sake, the G25 I returned had no noticeable input lag in any mode.

This is very true. You must use game mode in order to enjoy gaming on this set. Turning game mode on and off really doesn't bug me. But I do agree. There should just be a button on the remote to do a quick on and off.
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post #101 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

This is very true. You must use game mode in order to enjoy gaming on this set. Turning game mode on and off really doesn't bug me. But I do agree. There should just be a button on the remote to do a quick on and off.

Doesn't the TV remembers if the game mode was on or off on a particular input ?
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post #102 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Well, I got a chance to see these two (C7000 and VT25) side by side yesterday and there is no comparisson - the Panasonic is clearly the better TV - at least in my opinion.

First, I had the TV guy make the settings as close to exactly the same on both TVs as possible and the Panasonic was the clear winner no matter what he did.

The Panasonic looked brighter, had better whites and better blacks and better color all the way around.

I also, for the first time, actually looked at the bezel of the Samsung C7000 closer and felt it - it looks and fees terribly cheap - the "textured" plastic (it felt like plastic, not sure what it is) was just way too unattractive - it cheapened the TV by a lot. If it would have had the same bezel as the C6500, then the TV would have looked very nice.

However, the huge font logo for SAMSUNG looked "out of place" in relation to the more subdued smaller font logo for the Panasonic.

All in all, everything about the Panasonic I liked better - the picture quality and the design - minus the fact that the Samsung is much thinner.

Again, this is just my opinion - but the trip made up any doubt I had in my mind.

My Panasonic P65VT25 is on order from a local dealer and should be here in a few weeks!

Now to find a wall mount that will hold this thing, lol.


I'm not sure this is a great comparison. After all, the Panasonic generally goes for about $1000 more than the Samsung. For an extra 50% of the cost of the C7000 I would expect the Panny to be better than the Samsung in every conceivable way. Do a lot of folks really cross shop the VT25 and C7000? Hell, you could even get a C8000 for less than the VT25.
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post #103 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Guibs View Post

Doesn't the TV remembers if the game mode was on or off on a particular input ?

Yes it does, it would just be nice to have an "easy button".
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post #104 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac707 View Post

I'm not sure this is a great comparison. After all, the Panasonic generally goes for about $1000 more than the Samsung. For an extra 50% of the cost of the C7000 I would expect the Panny to be better than the Samsung in every conceivable way. Do a lot of folks really cross shop the VT25 and C7000? Hell, you could even get a C8000 for less than the VT25.

Not many will dispute the VT25 has better PQ (at least with its starting MLL measurement). Heck, for the price difference, it better. CNET performs side-by-side comparisons of the TVs it reviews with what it considers to be its competition (plus their reference Kuro). They compared the PN50C7000 to the G20 and VT25, among others.

Comparison models (details)
LG 50PK950 50-inch plasma
Panasonic TC-P50G20 50-inch plasma
Panasonic TC-P50VT25 50-inch plasma
Samsung PN50C590 50-inch plasma
LG 47LE8500 47-inch full array local dimming LED
Samsung UN55C8000 55-inch edge-lit local dimming LED
Pioneer PRO-111FD (reference) 50-inch plasma

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...ml?tag=rvwBody

People can choose to find fault with CNET, but I certainly trust Mr. Katzmaier's analysis more than those who post in-store observations. There is way too much self-justification in these threads... people trying to convince others in order to convince themselves.
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post #105 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectronicTonic View Post


Yes it does, it would just be nice to have an "easy button".

Exactly.
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post #106 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac707 View Post

I'm not sure this is a great comparison. After all, the Panasonic generally goes for about $1000 more than the Samsung. For an extra 50% of the cost of the C7000 I would expect the Panny to be better than the Samsung in every conceivable way. Do a lot of folks really cross shop the VT25 and C7000? Hell, you could even get a C8000 for less than the VT25.

I agree with that I saw the Panny VT25 at BestBuy. That might have a little better picture than the C7000, but the C7000 still had a very good picture for a lot less money than the Panny VT25. I bought the C7000. I thought it was a much better value because it also came with a free 3D Blu-Ray player and 3D glasses.
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post #107 of 213 Old 08-16-2010, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree with that I saw the Panny VT25 at BestBuy. That might have a little better picture than the C7000, but the C7000 still had a very good picture for a lot less money than the Panny VT25. I bought the C7000. I thought it was a much better value because it also came with a free 3D Blu-Ray player and 3D glasses.

They Are honestly both great sets. You can't go wrong in whichever one you chose. And honestly. The only thing I'd say I dot like about my set is the size. 50 just seems to small. Other then that. I love it.
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post #108 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

They Are honestly both great sets. You can't go wrong in whichever one you chose. And honestly. The only thing I'd say I dot like about my set is the size. 50 just seems to small. Other then that. I love it.

You never exchanged it for the 58?
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post #109 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

There is way too much self-justification in these threads... people trying to convince others in order to convince themselves.

So true
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post #110 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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You never exchanged it for the 58?

Nope. As much as I said I should have I still didn't.
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post #111 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motortiger View Post

I agree with that I saw the Panny VT25 at BestBuy. That might have a little better picture than the C7000, but the C7000 still had a very good picture for a lot less money than the Panny VT25. I bought the C7000. I thought it was a much better value because it also came with a free 3D Blu-Ray player and 3D glasses.

We must have been looking at different sets...

Because the VT25, in my opinion, blew away the C7000 and C8000 - there was no comparison...


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post #112 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

We must have been looking at different sets...

Because the VT25, in my opinion, blew away the C7000 and C8000 - there was no comparison...


I tried doing this comparison but here is the problem. At Bestbuy I went to (two of them) they show the Panasonic using a Bluray 1080p source, but they show the Samsung using a source from component video. The best that could have been was 1080i, and that could have been up-converted from something else. I would like to see the Samsung with the same Bluray source.

In this case of course the Panasonic looked much better, but swap the sources and the Samsung will look better. I asked them to put the Bluray on the Samsung but they said they can't... That is a bunch of bs imo, but whatever. I am trying to find a way to do a fair comparison, but honestly for about $1300 less with the 3D starter kit included it would be really hard for me to see the Panasonic picture to be worth that much.
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post #113 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Price bs performance!? Worthit? Nope
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post #114 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 12:38 PM
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When I did the comparison, I had the TV guy use the exact same source and put it on the exact same channel (for TV) and the exact same feed for the HD, they were already using the exact same cables, etc.

I even had him put the settings on the TVs as close as they possibly could.

The VT25 blew away the Samsung in every instance - it was not even close.

Again, this is just my opinion and others may very well like the look of the Samsungs over the VT25.

Also, the bezel of the C7000 and C8000 was not attractive, it looked and felt like grainy plastic - it cheapened the look of the TV a lot - again, my opinion.

That, and the HUGE font SAMSUNG on the TV versus the more subdued smaller font Panasonic made the Panasonic much more ascetically pleasing.

Actually it was not just my opinion, it was the opinion of my friend I had with also, and the TV guy...


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post #115 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 12:46 PM
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Best way to compare would be with a Panasonic BD player that has 2 HDMI outputs and hook that up to a VT25 and a C8000 to compare. I saw both next to each other and The picture on the VT25 seemed over saturated for me. Of course that can be fixed with calibration but the Sammy was pretty much awesome out of the box. And for the price difference there's no way one could justify getting the VT25 over the C8000 with a free BD player and glasses.
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post #116 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Price bs performance!? Worthit? Nope

The law of diminishing returns applies to just about everything. Even TV's. Just because its not worth it to you doesnt mean someone else isnt willing to spend the extra pocket money to get the best set currently available. Even if its only a little better.
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post #117 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 05:39 PM
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I guess you didn't mind the color banding or the dithering on the panasonic?

Personally, I did/do.

Drives me crazy to see a modern TV look like my 15 year old PC with chunky color bands.

No thanks. I'll turn a light on in the room and not notice the black level difference.

On the other hand, no amount of light turning on is going to make the Panasonic look smooth with low contrast gradiants.

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Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

We must have been looking at different sets...

Because the VT25, in my opinion, blew away the C7000 and C8000 - there was no comparison...



buytme
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post #118 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 08:04 PM
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And for the price difference there's no way one could justify getting the VT25 over the C8000 with a free BD player and glasses.

This was an offer only offered in the past? Just got a C8000, and if Sammy has a promo, or what have you, I would love to take advantage of it.
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post #119 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 08:49 PM
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Nice write up Juke.

I'll be getting a 63c550 in a few months if everything goes according to plan, I just don't see much value in super thin TVs or in 3d so I'll be saving a lot of money and getting a massive flat panel, who cares if it is an extra inch thick?

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post #120 of 213 Old 08-17-2010, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice write up Juke.

I'll be getting a 63c550 in a few months if everything goes according to plan, I just don't see much value in super thin TVs or in 3d so I'll be saving a lot of money and getting a massive flat panel, who cares if it is an extra inch thick?

I had almost gotten that set due to size and price as well. But I was never really impressed with the sets PQ. So I didn't get it. I honestly might get that set just to try it out. Home use is always better then the crap demos shown in store.
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