My view on the C7000 Samsung plasma - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 213 Old 07-18-2010, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello AVS. As some of you may know I have now become an owner of my very 1st plasma. I've owned LCD pretty much all my life. I'm now an B8500 and PNC7000 owner. I thought I'd give my views on this set in order to help people in a future purchase. Or have an idea of what to consider. Or not. Keep in mind this is my 1st Plasma and this is all my personally thought on plasma.

Why Plasma
Well, many people have asked me why I have chosen a plasma set vs LCD/LED/DLP. Being an 8500 owner. Chossing a plasma was kind of a hard thing for me. I'm very used to how an LCD looks. Bright picture. Pop. ETC. Coming from my 8500. The best blacks I've ever seen. But it didn't do what I really needed it to be able to do. GAMING I was looking for something a bit more smooth and faster. Maybe something that can make my games look even better. (Game mode on 8500 IMO sucked). NFL seasons coming back and after watching FIFA. I began to notice my LCD could not keep up with the ball speed. It'd always blur. Off angle viewing as everyone knows is very bad for an LCD. So I was looking for something that many people could also come over and enjoy the view. And so I got my plasma.

Why Samsung C7000
There were a few sets that I had to consider. I looked highly at both pros and cons of each sets. These were the sets I did consider.
  • G20
  • VT20/25
  • S2
  • C8000
I viewed sets in store for a while. Talked around a bit about the pros and cons of each set. In the end I chose my C7000. I must say if the Panasonic sets did not have the rising black issue. I would have purchased a VT20. But due to rising blacks I did not get a Panasonic. This is what I thought of Panasonic Pros:
  • Outstanding PQ(VT20/25 the being the best)
  • Input Lag
  • deep blacks
Panasonic cons:
  • Rising/floating Blacks(deal breaker)
  • Design
So all said and done I has to pass. I then started to consider an LG set. I then started to think of what it is that I really want. One thing I had learned was that 3D did catch my eye. not for movies or shows. For one reason only. GAMES. I believe it is the gaming industry that will push 3D and make it bigger as the years go buy. I started to like the idea of a future proof set. So i started to look into 3D. Samsung caught my eye. Which lead to my purchase.

C7000/C8000
This became a pretty hard decision for me to make. I've made threads asking for help. Looked around. Did everything I could to help make my mind up. In the end. I got the 7000. Reasons why I did were simple.
  • Price-7000 was a cheaper set
  • PQ-Both sets looked great. The only difference you can really see in these sets is when they turned off. The 8000 is more black
  • Options-what i could do with what I spent
The difference wasn't worth the money. The main thing people said was. "Well, was an extra 400 bucks?" Which got me thinking. Why would it be worth that much more? Black filter? Black filter does not seem to give the set better PQ. All it's seem to do was 2 things. 1. Make the set able to hold its colors better in light. 2.Make the set look black when off oppose to grey. If it were to make blacks become more black then I'd think its worth the upgrade. But just to filter light? I'd rather spend 30bucks on some black out shades and call it a day. MJC? Well, considering you could do a firmware update on the 7000 to have it have the features of the 8000? I didn't see why you'd get the 8000 after doing so. That and I have noticed that the last update we have gotten on the 7000 has made this "Soap Effect" go away. Which is the only reason I'd even change my set to an 8000. Making it pointless for me to consider otherwise. I could get more for the money with the 7000. So in the end. That's what I got.

Usage
This set is being used for everything. Gaming. Movies. Sports and comp monitor. I'd say its about 90%gaming and comp monitor and the other 10% Movies and sports.

Gaming
I chose not to do a break in. I figured it was a bit extreme and to many people seem to just nit pick at there sets rather then try to enjoy them. So once I got this puppy mounted and hooked up. I turned on the games. Yes, gamers were the very 1st thing used on this set. Yes, it was used in game mode. I played MW2 for about 3 hours strait. I have to say gaming is PERFECT on this set. Input lag is low. 20MS Average. Plenty low enough for me. Colors were better then on my 8500. It's amazing how much more detail and fast this set was over my 8500. It's almost as if I've never played this game in true HD. I found myself wanting to keep playing so I could view the new look of the game. It was quite a different experience for me. If your a gamer. This is a GREAT SET to get.

Movies
movies are great on this set as well. Everything looks way more real compared to an LCD set. Even a buddy of mine who knows nothing about HD came over and his 1st words were "Woah, it looks so real." one major thing about this set is DETAIL. This thing has amazing detail. I was watching AVATAR on this set and I started to see thing's I've never seen on my 8500. You just see so much more detail on this set. Skin tones. Wrinkles in skin. Hair. Etc. I now wonder how blue they are suppose to be in the movie as both sets had complete different views on each other. 8500 is super blue and the 7000 is a but lighter blue. It didn't look bad. Just made them look more human. Space scenes. WOW. Much. Just amazing.

Blacks
Yes, blacks are black. They are not grey in any way. The 8500 does have much more inky blacks compared to this set. BUT, you do not lose detail with blacks like you would on the 8500. before I honestly never knew what anyone was talking about when it came to losing shadow detail and "black crush" and what not. Although the blacks are not as inky. i do think they are plenty black enough and love the amount of detail you can get. Shadow detail is best I've seen. Spaces scenes are just a "wow" factor. The letterbox bars do not disappear into the bezel like the 8500. Far from a deal breaker.

Burn In and IR
Am i worried about burn in? Not really. I can tell you one thing. This site will make you worry WAY TO MUCH about things that do not happen. Or happen by small chance. As I've stated. I did not do break in and the very 1st thing on this set used was games. MW2 3 hours. I'm using it to type this review. I'm not concerned about burn in. IR? Pretty much none. The ONLY time I've ever gotten it was when there was any white to black. Example. My PlayStation menu was a pure black background. The white time and bars etc did have IR when in a black back round. It literally went away within 30 seconds. I'm not concerned at all about this set having a stuck image.

Buzz
If your not a member of AVS. None lol. If you are. Very minor. What I mean? The only way you can hear buzz on this set is you clearly walk behind the set and put your ear to it. You really have to listen to it. Regardless of content. White/black. The buzz is still very minor and you'd ever notice it unless you placed your ear to the set.

Conclusion and thoughts
Overall this is an excellent set and I'm very glad I now own my 1st plasma. To many LCD people tend to think LCD/LED is the only great thing going on with TV. When In fact a plasma has distinct advantages of its own. Its all in what YOU see in the set. I do tons of gaming and haven't had 1 single problem on this set. Things like BURN IN and IR being so dramatically bad really need to be laid to rest. From what I can see. Burn in is no longer a factor anymore. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. To me. This set has overall better PQ and detail then my 8500. Just less darker blacks. Gamers and PC users. Don't be afraid of plasma sets. They really are great. If theres anything I've missed in all this. Just ask. i'll be more then happy to be able to help others in any way I can. Thanks for taking the time to read this. All in all. I enjoy my set very much. And hope you all the best of luck in your next purchase. GOOD LUCK!

JukeBox360
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post #2 of 213 Old 07-18-2010, 08:29 PM
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wow, i thought the same thing when i bought my first plasma 2 weeks ago! i pickled up an Lg pj350 42inch. The first thing I noticed was the details, & the color depth. I would have got the 550, but I got a really, really good deal. I played battle field 1943, & wipout HD, first thing. However, I use it more as a computer monitor. Im not to concerned about IR either. but i will play on the safe side & not game on it much.

I recommend this tv. it has outstanding color depth, excellent menu controls, & a cool design. I know there's tv's out there that are better. but they cost alot more. at $500.00 bucks i just bought a porsche.
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post #3 of 213 Old 07-18-2010, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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lol. What made u buy ur first plasma vs LCD?
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post #4 of 213 Old 07-18-2010, 10:39 PM
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Input Lag -- You said it was 20MS average but you did not post any image verification of those numbers in the AVS lag thread. This leads me to believe that you used some 'other' form of testing besides the accepted standard here at the forum. It would sure help if you could do a lag test using the standard methods, and post the images showing the results. (I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just saying it would be nice)

Line Bleed -- Virtually all plasma sets suffer from this issue, even the Pioneer Kuros, but the question is how badly? I was able to immediately spot some quick examples viewing the c7000 in the store, which has me worried the line bleeding might be worse than average. Can you comment on this?

P.S. - If you don't already know what line bleeding is, it's probably best if you forget I even mentioned it. Don't go looking for it.

One day at a time...
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post #5 of 213 Old 07-18-2010, 10:51 PM
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1.what's line bleeding.

2. I don't know, I had my heart set on an lcd. But the off axis viewing, and cost! played a factor. I enjoy the pop lcd's give. But outside that pop there's alot of problem's. So, far plasma, has better color's to me, better detail. cost loads less. looks amazing when watching lord of the ring's. anyhow I got wood, & I got to go to sleep! I still love to have an xbr8.
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post #6 of 213 Old 07-18-2010, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

Input Lag -- You said it was 20MS average but you did not post any image verification of those numbers in the AVS lag thread. This leads me to believe that you used some 'other' form of testing besides the accepted standard here at the forum. It would sure help if you could do a lag test using the standard methods, and post the images showing the results. (I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just saying it would be nice)

Line Bleed -- Virtually all plasma sets suffer from this issue, even the Pioneer Kuros, but the question is how badly? I was able to immediately spot some quick examples viewing the c7000 in the store, which has me worried the line bleeding might be worse than average. Can you comment on this?

P.S. - If you don't already know what line bleeding is, it's probably best if you forget I even mentioned it. Don't go looking for it.

I didn't post picture because my camera sucked. As I've said before. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this set. Would a video help? I could try that. Also. I have no idea what line bleed is. And I haven't seen anything wrong(least to my eyes) with this set. The ONLY time I've ever seen any for of odd color or something like that is before a movie. When the screen is all green with white lettering. I see little strips of tinted line. Kinda white but kinda the whatever color the background is. Like if it's a green background then it's a lighter green color. But again. I only see this in that green picture before a movie. I've never seen it during an actual movie. Or gameplay. Etc. Some times 600hz causes an artifact on a very small moving object. Reminds me of what an LCD would do. If you turn off that motion effect you don't get any issues.
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post #7 of 213 Old 07-18-2010, 11:43 PM
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Congratulations on your new plasma. I'm sure you will enjoy it for years to come!
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post #8 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 05:17 AM
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One other difference between the Panny and the Sammy is the fit of the 3D glasses.

Panny's design is far less comfortable and lets light shine in the sides of the glasses.

The op mentioned being interested in gaming. Fit of the glasses would be an important factor in this environment, as you tend to move more than when watching a movie.

For this reason alone, the Sammy was a good choice for your intended use.
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post #9 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Derek Dean View Post

Congratulations on your new plasma. I'm sure you will enjoy it for years to come!

Thanks! I now plan on getting another plasma. They really ate great sets.

Question though. I've only put about 20 hours or so on my tv and for some reason. The PQ has gotten BETTER since 1st use. My blacks are even blacker then day 1. Why would this be? That just how a plasma works?
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post #10 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Thanks! I now plan on getting another plasma. They really ate great sets.

Question though. I've only put about 20 hours or so on my tv and for some reason. The PQ has gotten BETTER since 1st use. My blacks are even blacker then day 1. Why would this be? That just how a plasma works?

Things will probably look even better in about a week or so. I thought my 63c550 looked a little grainy when I first got it. But after getting the setting right and a month of use...hd images are now sharp and clear. Colors and blacks are also deeper.
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post #11 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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So age to the tv makes it better? I do see the grain issue. But I only see it when something is zoomed in.
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post #12 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 08:50 AM
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I didn't notice reading but what size did you buy?
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post #13 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't notice reading but what size did you buy?

Sorry about that. PN50C7000. I did want the 58 but we didn't have it. I might be getting a 58C8000 as well. Going to wait a while though. Need time to admire this set for now.
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post #14 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Sorry about that. PN50C7000. I did want the 58 but we didn't have it. I might be getting a 58C8000 as well. Going to wait a while though. Need time to admire this set for now.

Juke, I think you and me were in the same boat. We seemed to follow each other around in the different threads: b8500, lx9500, etc

Anyways, I also went and bought the same exact set yesterday. I got a great deal on it too. Your summary is spot on - can't disagree with any of your points. I love this TV!
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

So age to the tv makes it better? I do see the grain issue. But I only see it when something is zoomed in.

Plasmas, at least the 3 I've owned, do seem to improve some with age. I may have noticed some "grain" because I went from a 50" to a 63" at the same seating distance. I don't know what happened, but the tv picture definitely got clearer. I know for a fact that my vision didn't suddenly get better over the past month.
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post #16 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

So age to the tv makes it better? I do see the grain issue. But I only see it when something is zoomed in.

FYI, if you ever want to experiment with bias lighting, it may make your blacks look even deeper. I got into bias light earlier this year and like it. On wide screen movies the black bars now drift from almost bezel black to bezel black...depending on what's on the screen. Basically, they don't stand out or draw any attention to themselves.

The closest comparison I can make is the 2009 58b650. (I hope ClarkeBar doesn't mind.) http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7pu0b/e...clife/id4.html

The b650, c7000, and 63c550 black levels measure about the same. So even without bias light, your tv's blacks should look great.
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post #17 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alkoholik View Post


Juke, I think you and me were in the same boat. We seemed to follow each other around in the different threads: b8500, lx9500, etc

Anyways, I also went and bought the same exact set yesterday. I got a great deal on it too. Your summary is spot on - can't disagree with any of your points. I love this TV!

Yes. I have noticed you and i ways seem to end up in the same threads lol. Glad people seem to agree with what I've said on this set. Figured it might help buyers in the future as well. This is an amazing set for amazing price. Plus the whole package with it!? STEAL. Do you game on this set as well?

Runner. What I'd bias lighting? My set will benefit from this?
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Yes. I have noticed you and i ways seem to end up in the same threads lol. Glad people seem to agree with what I've said on this set. Figured it might help buyers in the future as well. This is an amazing set for amazing price. Plus the whole package with it!? STEAL. Do you game on this set as well?

Runner. What I'd bias lighting? My set will benefit from this?

Bias lighting is a light that you would attach to the rear of your TV to reflect light off the back wall. Ideally the bulb would be a 6500k color temperature light as a properly calibrated TV is calibrated to 6500k.
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post #19 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 10:38 AM
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Congrats Juke!!! Ive had four plasmas and all seem to look better with age. I have over 250hrs on my 58c8000 and it looks better everyday lol best plasma I ever owned!!! Ditto on reasons not going with 2010 panny!!! My brother got vt25 and exchanged for c8000!

Stop weezing the juice!
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post #20 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 10:38 AM
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Also, GREAT review!!!

Stop weezing the juice!
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post #21 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 10:55 AM
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Nice review JukeBox. How many sets to you go through before ending up with the C7000?

People have panned the set because of how it looks under the bright lights of Best Buy. Funny what a Consumer Reports and CNET review will do.
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post #22 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 11:01 AM
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Thanks for the indepth review. I wish I found this site a month ago when I bought my Sony Bravia LCD. I think I've overpaid for my LCD but there's no point of crying over spilled milk.
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Originally Posted by hiyatran View Post

Thanks for the indepth review. I wish I found this site a month ago when I bought my Sony Bravia LCD. I think I've overpaid for my LCD but there's no point of crying over spilled milk.

Don't feel too bad. If your Sony Bravia is like my friends, it's a nice tv. When something is black on that tv it is BLACK. As in that part of the tv screen has turned off type of black.
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post #24 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by prerunnerv6 View Post

FYI, if you ever want to experiment with bias lighting, it may make your blacks look even deeper. I got into bias light earlier this year and like it. On wide screen movies the black bars now drift from almost bezel black to bezel black...depending on what's on the screen. Basically, they don't stand out or draw any attention to themselves.

The closest comparison I can make is the 2009 58b650. (I hope ClarkeBar doesn't mind.) http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7pu0b/e...clife/id4.html

The b650, c7000, and 63c550 black levels measure about the same. So even without bias light, your tv's blacks should look great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im2sexy View Post

Bias lighting is a light that you would attach to the rear of your TV to reflect light off the back wall. Ideally the bulb would be a 6500k color temperature light as a properly calibrated TV is calibrated to 6500k.

Where can I get this bias lighting? Noob question I know. But 1st time I've ever even heard about this.lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjb4 View Post

Congrats Juke!!! Ive had four plasmas and all seem to look better with age. I have over 250hrs on my 58c8000 and it looks better everyday lol best plasma I ever owned!!! Ditto on reasons not going with 2010 panny!!! My brother got vt25 and exchanged for c8000!

Well that's great!
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Originally Posted by mjb4 View Post

Also, GREAT review!!!

Thanks. If you feel I missed anything just LMK. 1st time I've ever done something like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

Nice review JukeBox. How many sets to you go through before ending up with the C7000?


People have panned the set because of how it looks under the bright lights of Best Buy. Funny what a Consumer Reports and CNET review will do.

About 5 lol
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Originally Posted by hiyatran View Post

Thanks for the indepth review. I wish I found this site a month ago when I bought my Sony Bravia LCD. I think I've overpaid for my LCD but there's no point of crying over spilled milk.

Your most welcome. I hope this can help people in there future purchase. Sony is still a great set BTW. But as you said. No point in crying over spilled milk.
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post #25 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 12:16 PM
 
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Well you can order through cinema quest and its about $80 or google "6500k bias lighting" and theres tons of info. Sounds like you could do it for as little as $25 with stuff you would pick up at your local hardware store.
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post #26 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Well you can order through cinema quest and its about $80 or google "6500k bias lighting" and theres tons of info. Sounds like you could do it for as little as $25 with stuff you would pick up at your local hardware store.

Thank you. I'm going to look into this right away.
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post #27 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Well you can order through cinema quest and its about $80 or google "6500k bias lighting" and theres tons of info. Sounds like you could do it for as little as $25 with stuff you would pick up at your local hardware store.

I Googled it. But problem is I have no idea whats considered good. lol
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post #28 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

I Googled it. But problem is I have no idea whats considered good. lol

Sorry, I didn't mean to get the thread off on a tangent.

Here are some inexpensive ways to experiment with bias light:

http://www.brothersontech.com/blog/n...lighting-cheap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gP4a-U-FCk


It's not for everyone, but it's helped me in my situation. If you don't get eyestrain in a dark room, then you may not need it.
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post #29 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 05:11 PM
 
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^^^ What he said LOL. That first link seems the easiest and cheapest solution. Unless the TV is wall mounted. I bet if you search AVS there is probably tons of info just on here.
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post #30 of 213 Old 07-19-2010, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Question. Thought I'd ask here before trying to make another thread. Since this is my 1st plasma. How do I break it in? Make it "age" evenly? How do you do this to this set?
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