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2011 Panasonic Plasma [NO PRICE TALK]

637K views 3K replies 510 participants last post by  Plasma to OLED owner 
#1 ·
Hello,



I was about to buy a TV but after reading the panasonic issue thread I abandoned my plans. I want blacks that equal or surpass those of the Pioneer G9 Kuros, together with all the other benefits, like 3D etc...

So, what about the 2011 Panasonic plasmas ? Is there any information about the new series or do I have to wait until IFA Berlin or even CES ?


A list of what we can expect, maybe:


better blacklevels (perfect black ? )

no blacklevel rise

10 Lumen technics (lighter, less power consumption)

3D also in small sizes

better 3D glases (the avaible ones are a joke )

1080p motion on all models

no more 720p plasmas

thinner design (Samsung just released a 1/3 " thin LCD TV...)

a more modern design

Fuga Pioneer on the high end models

even faster phosphor for the high end models

2D-3D Conversation


Does this sound realistic or utopistic ?


greetings
 
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#2,754 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D /forum/post/20229314


I find both measures equally important.



Looking forward to the VT30 though, cause when it does the same as ST30 and GT30 (which has 0.018 cd/m2 by the way with a Klein K10) with both the On/Off black level and the ANSI black level at the same height, this would mean, Panasonic VT30 beats the Elite KURO 9G in terms of ANSI.

I think the problem here is the improper use of a non contact meter when it comes to a checkerboard test pattern.


2nd Gen Kuros black measurements do not change when properly measuring ANSI contrast. Ditto on the 2011 Panasonics (ST30 and GT30).
 
#2,755 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D /forum/post/20229314


I find both measures equally important.



Looking forward to the VT30 though, cause when it does the same as ST30 and GT30 (which has 0.018 cd/m2 by the way with a Klein K10) with both the On/Off black level and the ANSI black level at the same height, this would mean, Panasonic VT30 beats the Elite KURO 9G in terms of ANSI.


I measured with a Minolta LS100


Panasonic GT30 calibrated


black level ANSI is 0.027 CD/m2


Contrast ANSI 3300:1


Luminance White 90 CD/m2
 
#2,756 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/20228575


He never said that BB won't be selling any GT30s, he only confirmed that the 55GT31 on BB's site was not a typo. The 65" GT30 was definitely up on BB's site for a few days. Only the 55 incher was a GT31 which added a few pair of glasses and an Avatar DVD. The 65GT30 was just the TV with no goodies.


It seems kinda like it was last year when they had their own exclusive 50G20 and 50VT20, but also sold the regular 54VT24 and 58VT25.

That's right I assumed that's what he meant. My apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Mule /forum/post/20228799


Is this the Internet-equivalent of stuttering?

No, it's the internet version of mockery.


 
#2,758 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermPlasm /forum/post/20229857


Panasonic promised 30% more brightness with less power usage in these 2011 plasmas versus the 2010 models, is 29ftL 30% brighter than last year's GT and VT?.

They never said 30% brighter in all video modes. Certain video modes can get brighter.... a lot brighter. However, there will be consequences.
 
#2,759 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/20229880

They never said 30% brighter in all video modes. Certain video modes can get brighter.... a lot brighter. However, there will be consequences.

This makes sense to me. Every manufacturers "demo" mode looks horrible, why should PDP be any different?


Now they can show the TV off in real torch mode (Vivid mark II) and it can hang with LCDs at store demo areas.
 
#2,760 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/20229723


I think your ANSI numbers are flawed. For instance, I know for a fact that the black level on the KRP-500M does not change on a 8x8 checkerboard pattern. The ST30 I have did not change either. You cannot properly measure ANSI contrast with a non contact meter unless you know how to eliminate the light coming from the white squares in a checkerboard pattern.

One truth


is to publish the true values

NOT incorrect values


example:

http://www.televisions.com/tvs/pione...-in-Detail.php

Note the instrumentation


Contrast Ratio and Black Level:

No other TV can currently hold a candle to the KRP-500 in terms of reproducing deep blacks. In the lab, we determined an almost invisibly low residual illumination of just 0.007 candela per square meter, meaning we could hardly perceive it despite our greatest efforts. This typifies Pioneer's "Kuro" range, to which this set belongs more than any other: "Kuro" is Japanese for black.


Residual illumination on the comparison device, the PDP-LX 5090, was almost three times brighter than the KRP-500, with a darkest black of 0.02 candelas per square meter. The consequence of the nearly perfect black level is the huge in-picture contrast of 20,500:1 - this means that white points in the image shine up 20,500 times brighter than black ones. On the PDP-LX 5090, the in-picture contrast is "only" 9,000:1. This doesn't mean the 5090 is a poor device - far from it - this value actually places it well among the top devices. It resides happily just behind the KRP-500, with the second deepest black, and the second highest in-picture contrast ratio.
 
#2,762 ·
Since Italian is your first language:


Qual è il tuo metodologia di misurazione nero con ANSI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomotronic /forum/post/20230066


One truth


is to publish the true values

NOT incorrect values


example:

http://www.televisions.com/tvs/pione...-in-Detail.php

Note the instrumentation


Contrast Ratio and Black Level:

No other TV can currently hold a candle to the KRP-500 in terms of reproducing deep blacks. In the lab, we determined an almost invisibly low residual illumination of just 0.007 candela per square meter, meaning we could hardly perceive it despite our greatest efforts. This typifies Pioneer's "Kuro" range, to which this set belongs more than any other: "Kuro" is Japanese for black.


Residual illumination on the comparison device, the PDP-LX 5090, was almost three times brighter than the KRP-500, with a darkest black of 0.02 candelas per square meter. The consequence of the nearly perfect black level is the huge in-picture contrast of 20,500:1 - this means that white points in the image shine up 20,500 times brighter than black ones. On the PDP-LX 5090, the in-picture contrast is "only" 9,000:1. This doesn't mean the 5090 is a poor device - far from it - this value actually places it well among the top devices. It resides happily just behind the KRP-500, with the second deepest black, and the second highest in-picture contrast ratio.
 
#2,763 ·
You understand that the value is incorrect HDTVtest GT30


a hdtv can not keep the same value

on a black screen and ANSI checkerboard


the proof is clear


Panasonic TX-P46VT20B plasma Review

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panas...0110125978.htm



Calibrated black level (black screen)


0.013 cd/m2


Calibrated black level (ANSI checkerboard)


0.044 cd/m2




Panasonic TX-P42C3B Plasma Review

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panas...1103211056.htm



Calibrated black level (black screen)


0.04 cd/m2


Calibrated black level (ANSI checkerboard)


0.17 cd/m2



NB: possible that the instrumentation Klein K 10

with the filter of the new Panasonic GT30

alter the detection and the value.
 
#2,765 ·
several posts deleted


members should help other members: not attack them or tell them not to post


keep this in mind if you want to continue to post here


Thanks
 
#2,766 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomotronic /forum/post/20230165


You understand that the value is incorrect HDTVtest GT30


a hdtv can not keep the same value

on a black screen and ANSI checkerboard


the proof is clear.

The proof is clear that you do not know how to measure ANSI with an LS-100 and David at HDTVtest clearly does. His methodology is documented in his review of the GT30.
 
#2,767 ·
Atomotronic, you have posted this information repeatedly over at HDTVTest (using several different user names, I might add) and my reply to you here is the same: measure the ANSI contrast from a GT30 and you will see this for yourself.

Quote:
a hdtv can not keep the same value

on a black screen and ANSI checkerboard

Plenty of LCD displays show this behavior. The only exceptions are when dynamic backlighting is used (for example, Samsung's auto-dimming near black) which will create a difference between the black screen and ANSI measurements.


I'm not sure why you use my measurements from the 2010 displays (which DID show a rise in black level with the checkerboard pattern) as "proof" for your arugment, but then claim on other forums that I am a liar and that I manipulate figures because I am a fan of Plasma display technology, just because the 2011 displays perform better than you expected in this regard. The truth is more boring, I'm afraid: I'm simply reporting the measurements as they come from the meter.


-David M
 
#2,768 ·
#2,769 ·
I know what a LS-100 is and know how to use it. Since you seem unwilling to answer my question and your post history on other sites (i.e. ISF Master on hdtvtest.co.uk), your numbers are just that... numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomotronic /forum/post/20230610

Luminance Meter Minolta LS-100/LS-110



Applications:


Virtually all types of display


Luminance

Contrast Ratio


Luminance uniformity

http://home.davidson.com.au/new/072008/KM-Display.htm

http://www.konicaminolta.com/instrum...110/index.html
 
#2,770 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomotronic /forum/post/20230066


One truth


is to publish the true values

NOT incorrect values


example:

http://www.televisions.com/tvs/pione...-in-Detail.php

Note the instrumentation


Contrast Ratio and Black Level:

No other TV can currently hold a candle to the KRP-500 in terms of reproducing deep blacks. In the lab, we determined an almost invisibly low residual illumination of just 0.007 candela per square meter, meaning we could hardly perceive it despite our greatest efforts. This typifies Pioneer's "Kuro" range, to which this set belongs more than any other: "Kuro" is Japanese for black.


Residual illumination on the comparison device, the PDP-LX 5090, was almost three times brighter than the KRP-500, with a darkest black of 0.02 candelas per square meter. The consequence of the nearly perfect black level is the huge in-picture contrast of 20,500:1 - this means that white points in the image shine up 20,500 times brighter than black ones. On the PDP-LX 5090, the in-picture contrast is "only" 9,000:1. This doesn't mean the 5090 is a poor device - far from it - this value actually places it well among the top devices. It resides happily just behind the KRP-500, with the second deepest black, and the second highest in-picture contrast ratio.

Are you Italian?

I´m Portuguese.

In the Italian site DDAY.IT, they measured the ansi black level of the panasonic V20 0,006 cd/m2. and in a totally black screen they result was 0,028 cd/m2.

I have already posted here that i compared my V20 with my friend´s Pio 5090, and the V20 shows more contrast and blacks in mixed pictures, but the Kuro have a lower black level in 0 IRE .

It´s confusing but is true.


What do you say about this?
 
#2,771 ·
#2,772 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by schnura /forum/post/20228211


I actually have one in my home right now. I live in White Plains, NY and the Scarsdale, NY store got a shipment and I went right down and picked up the 50" GT30.


We're loving it. I picked up the Avatar Starter kit with two glasses and we're having a ball. My gf stuck in the flash card of our last vacation and we did the 2D to 3D conversion and wow this TV looks fantastic, this is a fun way to use a TV.


The Wi Fi works great streaming the web.

What do you mean exactly by the wifi works great streaming the web? Do you mean like a netflix widget? a DLNA stream from your computer (curious how well that's going to work)?? I am pretty sure the GT30 doesn't have a web browser...


But hmmm, my A/V guy is getting mine straight from the Panasonic rep/distributor, and they still have no idea or ETA (although it seems as if they know when it will be in basically...when it comes in...). Just curious who is getting what and how at this point if Best Buy doesn't even have them in yet :p .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomotronic /forum/post/20228843


I measured with a Minolta LS100


Panasonic GT30


black level ANSI is 0.027 CD/m2


Contrast ANSI 3300:1


Luminance White 90 CD/m2

Well, barring the ongoing argument on whether these measurements are valid or not, is this.....good?
 
#2,774 ·
Atomotronic you're getting into bad territory is difficult here to defend your point even if Dnice has no reason they believe in him, make better land in another forum
how ever I believe what you claiming.



The important value is the value ANSI

NOT value black screen
 
#2,775 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris /forum/post/20230536


Atomotronic, you have posted this information repeatedly over at HDTVTest (using several different user names, I might add) and my reply to you here is the same: measure the ANSI contrast from a GT30 and you will see this for yourself.

Judging by the way how a Plasma TV works there should be a difference between a Full 0 IRE and ANSI patern. When there's content on screen like for example an ANSI patern compared to a Full 0 IRE patern there is more electricity pumped onto the Plasma cells. This would mean the idle state of the black ANSI patern should be higher compared to a Full 0 IRE screen. If this would not be happening black levels on Plasma TV's would be 0cd/m2.


Now I have no doubt you measured correct and are absolutely not at fault here but rather the AR filter hindering you're Klein K-10 to measure light output accurately thus creating a false measurement.

Quote:
Plenty of LCD displays show this behavior. The only exceptions are when dynamic backlighting is used (for example, Samsung's auto-dimming near black) which will create a difference between the black screen and ANSI measurements.

Well a LCD display when not using any form of dimming of the backlight always has the backlight running at the same intensity no matter if there's a Full 0 IRE or Full 100 IRE patern shown. This means the black levels don't differ when measuring either a Full 0 IRE patern or an ANSI patern.
 
#2,776 ·
I have "no reason" for what?


I suggest you research the indiviual you are attempting to defend as he has gotten the same response/reception on multiple forums from multiple people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore /forum/post/20231680


Atomotronic you're getting into bad territory is difficult here to defend your point even if Dnice has no reason they believe in him, make better land in another forum
how ever I believe what you claiming.



The important value is the value ANSI

NOT value black screen
 
#2,778 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by $$Buck-Naked$$ /forum/post/20231883


Judging by the way how a Plasma TV works there should be a difference between a Full 0 IRE and ANSI patern.

Then you really don't know much about plasmas. Better yet your information you think you know is dated at best.


The 2011 Panasonics have the same black level on a 0% stimuli pattern and when measuring black on an AnSI pattern. You are more than welcome to test it for yourself. Just make sure you have the right methodology when doing it.
 
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