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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > 2011 Panasonic Plasma [NO PRICE TALK]
RichB's Avatar RichB 09:20 AM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_B View Post

The AR filter appears to be better on the VT30 series compared to the ST/GT30's.

" New A/R screen filter (different from new A/R screen filter on P65VT30)"

Yes, but there is this:

Quote:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1305229

A secondary consideration is the single sheet of glass design, which some people like and some don't (because of the reflection some see between the front glass and the glass behind).

I keep asking if the one-sheet of glass design introduced an extra pane of glass. If true, this could actually reduce the picture quality versus the G series.

- Rich

Bigham16's Avatar Bigham16 09:33 AM 01-18-2011
I am confused. Is the VT30 the online line that has the single sheet of glass? What is the difference between "single sheet" and "Flush Glass Design"?
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 09:36 AM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigham16 View Post

I am confused. Is the VT30 the online line that has the single sheet of glass? What is the difference between "single sheet" and "Flush Glass Design"?

This "single sheet" is where the glass goes all the way across, no indention for bezel.

The black bezel you see is not on top of the glass, the glass runs all the way across on top of the black area


Bigham16's Avatar Bigham16 09:45 AM 01-18-2011
Yeah I understand that and thanks but do the VT and GT both have this or is there a difference in the two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

This "single sheet" is where the glass goes all the way across, no indention for bezel.

The black bezel you see is not on top of the glass, the glass runs all the way across on top of the black area



ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 09:50 AM 01-18-2011
http://ces.cnet.com/1801-32500_1-50098428.html

This video leads me to believe the GT is a one sheet of glass design, but has two panes of glass, where the VT is one sheet/one pane, but I dunno.

This year the VT has it's own panel, while the GT and ST share another version.
Bigham16's Avatar Bigham16 09:56 AM 01-18-2011
Awh, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

http://ces.cnet.com/1801-32500_1-50098428.html

This video leads me to believe the GT is a one sheet of glass design, but has two panes of glass, where the VT is one sheet/one pane, but I dunno.

This year the VT has it's own panel, while the GT and ST share another version.


eonibm's Avatar eonibm 10:04 AM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_B View Post

The AR filter appears to be better on the VT30 series compared to the ST/GT30's.

" New A/R screen filter (different from new A/R screen filter on P65VT30)"

Yes, they all have new A/R filters, but the P65VT30 has a better one, which one would expect given the much higher cost.
Chris_B's Avatar Chris_B 10:16 AM 01-18-2011
So given the "better AR filter", the VT30 line should handle lit windows/lights better and the picture shouldn't be as negatively affected compared to the ST/GT series (or the 2010 line as well). At least that is how I interpret it. We shall see (hopefully) soon.
RichB's Avatar RichB 10:34 AM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

This "single sheet" is where the glass goes all the way across, no indention for bezel.

The black bezel you see is not on top of the glass, the glass runs all the way across on top of the black area


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

http://ces.cnet.com/1801-32500_1-50098428.html

This video leads me to believe the GT is a one sheet of glass design, but has two panes of glass, where the VT is one sheet/one pane, but I dunno.

This year the VT has it's own panel, while the GT and ST share another version.

When the panel has a extra sheet of glass there are actually 3 sheets of glass. I am not convinced the CNET girl is very technical. The G Series was 2 sheets without the extra glass last year and it does appear that the bezel is on-top of the glass.

However, while I some have said that there is no extra pane of glass, I have not had anyone back that information up with a source, so I remain skeptical.

- Rich
HotBBQ's Avatar HotBBQ 12:02 PM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

Meaning it's going to be their lowest end 1080p model for 2011. It's their only 1080p plasma thus far without 2D.

What a bummer, you have to watch everything in 3D?
Bigham16's Avatar Bigham16 12:50 PM 01-18-2011
I just can't seem to find enough information if the rest of the 2011 line has the one sheet of glass or not. I remain skeptical as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

When the panel has a extra sheet of glass there are actually 3 sheets of glass. I am not convinced the CNET girl is very technical. The G Series was 2 sheets without the extra glass last year and it does appear that the bezel is on-top of the glass.

However, while I some have said that there is no extra pane of glass, I have not had anyone back that information up with a source, so I remain skeptical.

- Rich


dsmith901's Avatar dsmith901 01:10 PM 01-18-2011
So, re the glossy bezel, didn't anyone here go to CES and see a display model? With all the insiders posting here surely someone has seen an advance demo unit. Don't be shy - clue us in! Thanks.
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 01:32 PM 01-18-2011
Ok, here is a tidbit:

Quote:


the gt30 has what we call "flush design" where if you run your finger across you'll feel a very tiny bezel but next to non. the vt30 is flat entire way around with metallic accents around the outside.


ST30 has a larger bezel
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 01:35 PM 01-18-2011
Another:

Quote:


From what I remember seeing and being told, the VT, GT and ST we're all single sheets of glass, meaning that they have the subtract glass and a final (top) glass panel, which has the filter and anti-glare coating applied directly on the surface


tjdean01's Avatar tjdean01 02:20 PM 01-18-2011
@Bigham16
LOL, I've read the whole day's posts and I've seen you ask the same question over and over and not get an answer. I will finally answer (though you might not be happy with it!). The 2011 VT has the Infinite Black Panel Pro, which is definitely better than the 2010 GT25's Infinite Black Panel. The 2011 VT30 has the Infinite Black Panel Pro 2, which is definitely going to be better than the 2011 GT30's Infinite Black Panel 2. So, the question becomes, is Infinite Black Panel 2 better than Infinite Black Panel Pro 1? It's not even worth arguing because I don't think any reps have even taken a stab at this one yet! Personally, though, I think the ST30/GT30 will be very, very similar to the 2010 VT25.

RE: Single layer glass design
Getting the information of whether it's 2 or 3 pieces of glass is hard and I don't think anyone here knows. We know that all plasmas need the pixels encapsulated between two layers of glass, but there's no way of knowing whether the outside layer of glass is the necessary 2nd pane of glass or if it's a 3rd just thrown in for looks, like on the more expensive Sharp Quattron LEDs. What do you think?

Diagram 1: Mid-range LG plasma PK550
Diagram 2: Higher-range LG plasma PK750

Judging from this, the PK750 has no unnecessary glass. Thoughts?

And, someone on here mentioned that the Panasonic PZ800U had the normal 2 layers of glass, and a 3rd layer thrown on the tops just for looks. The diagram, again, doesn't suggest this: PZ800U Diagram
Bigham16's Avatar Bigham16 02:36 PM 01-18-2011
LOL!! Seems to happen on most forums. I was thinking the same thing that the 2011 GT would be close if not the same as the 2010 VT25. I pulled the trigger today on the 58VT25 at BB. Couldn't pass up the price I was offered and I understand it's a "nice" TV . Cool diagrams and thanks for the links. To bad Panasonic doesn't share more right now.

Could you build your own plasma from Sears?

Thank you for the feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdean01 View Post

@Bigham16
LOL, I've read the whole day's posts and I've seen you ask the same question over and over and not get an answer. I will finally answer (though you might not be happy with it!). The 2011 VT has the Infinite Black Panel Pro, which is definitely better than the 2010 GT25's Infinite Black Panel. The 2011 VT30 has the Infinite Black Panel Pro 2, which is definitely going to be better than the 2011 GT30's Infinite Black Panel 2. So, the question becomes, is Infinite Black Panel 2 better than Infinite Black Panel Pro 1? It's not even worth arguing because I don't think any reps have even taken a stab at this one yet! Personally, though, I think the ST30/GT30 will be very, very similar to the 2010 VT25.


xrox's Avatar xrox 02:36 PM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdean01 View Post

@Bigham16
LOL, I've read the whole day's posts and I've seen you ask the same question over and over and not get an answer. I will finally answer (though you might not be happy with it!). The 2011 VT has the Infinite Black Panel Pro, which is definitely better than the 2010 GT25's Infinite Black Panel. The 2011 VT30 has the Infinite Black Panel Pro 2, which is definitely going to be better than the 2011 GT30's Infinite Black Panel 2. So, the question becomes, is Infinite Black Panel 2 better than Infinite Black Panel Pro 1? It's not even worth arguing because I don't think any reps have even taken a stab at this one yet! Personally, though, I think the ST30/GT30 will be very, very similar to the 2010 VT25.

RE: Single layer glass design
Getting the information of whether it's 2 or 3 pieces of glass is hard and I don't think anyone here knows. We know that all plasmas need the pixels encapsulated between two layers of glass, but there's no way of knowing whether the outside layer of glass is the necessary 2nd pane of glass or if it's a 3rd just thrown in for looks, like on the more expensive Sharp Quattron LEDs. What do you think?

Diagram 1: Mid-range LG plasma PK550
Diagram 2: Higher-range LG plasma PK750

Judging from this, the PK750 has no unnecessary glass. Thoughts?

And, someone on here mentioned that the Panasonic PZ800U had the normal 2 layers of glass, and a 3rd layer thrown on the tops just for looks. The diagram, again, doesn't suggest this: PZ800U Diagram

AFAIK the 3rd glass panel is not just for looks. It is there to act as a substrate for the AR filter.

Pioneer used something called a bonded filter which means the AR filter is directly bonded to the surface of the 2nd layer of glass eliminating the need for a 3rd layer.
fairchild99's Avatar fairchild99 04:16 PM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotBBQ View Post

What a bummer, you have to watch everything in 3D?

You can buy a 3D set and just use it for 2D and reap all the improvement.
tjdean01's Avatar tjdean01 04:48 PM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

AFAIK the 3rd glass panel is not just for looks. It is there to act as a substrate for the AR filter.

Pioneer used something called a bonded filter which means the AR filter is directly bonded to the surface of the 2nd layer of glass eliminating the need for a 3rd layer.

It's looking like the VT30 will use the same design as that Pioneer, with the filter attached right to the glass. This would be so much better.

Do you have any way of knowing if certain TVs are like the Pioneer, or if they they have 3 layers? For example, that LG PK750 with the front "skin" glass sure is a lot heavier than the PK550, which we know only has 2 layers. Could the 750 have 3?
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 05:49 PM 01-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

AFAIK the 3rd glass panel is not just for looks. It is there to act as a substrate for the AR filter.

Pioneer used something called a bonded filter which means the AR filter is directly bonded to the surface of the 2nd layer of glass eliminating the need for a 3rd layer.


Yepp, and this is how the VT and GT are, unsure on the ST.
rogo's Avatar rogo 05:39 AM 01-19-2011
"The G Series was 2 sheets without the extra glass last year and it does appear that the bezel is on-top of the glass."

Correct, the G bezel is not flush. "Tiny" as posted below yours? Um, whatever. It looks cheap. Of course, so does the silver edging.
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 06:20 AM 01-19-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

"The G Series was 2 sheets without the extra glass last year and it does appear that the bezel is on-top of the glass."

Correct, the G bezel is not flush. "Tiny" as posted below yours? Um, whatever. It looks cheap. Of course, so does the silver edging.



Did you go to CES and actually see them? Or are you offering opinion off web pics?
amjustice's Avatar amjustice 06:42 AM 01-19-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post


Did you go to CES and actually see them? Or are you offering opinion off web pics?

VT 30 is the only one with one sheet of glass. I heard it from the panny rep myself at CES
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 06:52 AM 01-19-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by amjustice View Post

VT 30 is the only one with one sheet of glass. I heard it from the panny rep myself at CES

We cleared that up already. I'm the one that posted the info earlier, my reference to him was his opinion of the looks. He's stated several times he's not happy with them, and Id like to know if thats just from some web pics, or did he look at them up close.
specuvestor's Avatar specuvestor 07:04 AM 01-19-2011
Rogo is a recurring visitor of CES
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 07:09 AM 01-19-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Rogo is a recurring visitor of CES

Thanks rogo. (j/k)

If thats the case, fine, I just wanted to know if he'd actually seen them. The personal pictures of the VT I saw, looked good IMO. But, as many things, design is subjective, or in the eye of the beholder.
RichB's Avatar RichB 07:16 AM 01-19-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by amjustice View Post

VT 30 is the only one with one sheet of glass. I heard it from the panny rep myself at CES

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

We cleared that up already. I'm the one that posted the info earlier, my reference to him was his opinion of the looks. He's stated several times he's not happy with them, and Id like to know if thats just from some web pics, or did he look at them up close.

Really?

We know the font is a single sheet of glass.

Do we really know for certain that how many sheets of glass are used in the VT30? Is it 2 or 3?

- Rich
H_Prestige's Avatar H_Prestige 07:18 AM 01-19-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdean01 View Post

It's looking like the VT30 will use the same design as that Pioneer, with the filter attached right to the glass. This would be so much better.

Do you have any way of knowing if certain TVs are like the Pioneer, or if they they have 3 layers? For example, that LG PK750 with the front "skin" glass sure is a lot heavier than the PK550, which we know only has 2 layers. Could the 750 have 3?

Panasonic was already doing this last year with the G and VT series.

Only difference now is that the VT30 will have the outer glass extending all the way across the bezel.
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 07:20 AM 01-19-2011
This is what I was told.

Quote:


the VT, GT and ST we're all single sheets of glass, meaning that they have the subtract glass and a final (top) glass panel, which has the filter and anti-glare coating applied directly on the surface.

This is exactly how the best Kuros were designed

The VT is the single sheet "design"
The GT has the slim bezel
Dunno on ST
ElwayLite's Avatar ElwayLite 07:20 AM 01-19-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Prestige View Post

Panasonic was already doing this last year with the G and VT series.

Only difference now is that the VT30 will have the outer glass extending all the way across the bezel.

Well said, I had a lot of jumbled info yesterday.
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