2011 Panasonic Plasma [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 04:48 PM
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There was some supposed info released on another forum in regards to 2011 models:



1080Hz Sub-Field Drive: For the smoothest 3D motion.

24 Bit Panel: For thousands more shades per color.

20% Increase in Color: From 115% to 135% of HD Color Standard

Deeper Contrast: 0.001 ft-L in THX Mode.

Brighter Picture (and Better Efficiency): With a peak brightness that resembles LCD's.

Improved 3D & 2D Processing

New Nano Anti-Reflective Coating: Will produce a screen with virtually no glare.

Licensed Technology from Emo Labs and their 'Invisible Speaker': Better sound with "no speakers".

New & Improved GUI

Newly Designed Cosmetics with Thinner Panel & Thinner Bezel

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
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post #92 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 04:50 PM
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Source?
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post #93 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

There was some supposed info released on another forum in regards to 2011 models:

1080Hz Sub-Field Drive: For the smoothest 3D motion.

24 Bit Panel: For thousands more shades per color.

20% Increase in Color: From 115% to 135% of HD Color Standard

Deeper Contrast: 0.001 ft-L in THX Mode.

Brighter Picture (and Better Efficiency): With a peak brightness that resembles LCD's.

Improved 3D & 2D Processing

New Nano Anti-Reflective Coating: Will produce a screen with virtually no glare.

Licensed Technology from Emo Labs and their 'Invisible Speaker': Better sound with "no speakers".

New & Improved GUI

Newly Designed Cosmetics with Thinner Panel & Thinner Bezel

And while being energy star 5.0 certified to I suppose. That's ambitious to go for numbers the kuro didn't have using 30ish% more power.

If those specs are possible that set will be very expensive.

IMO that is too bug of a jump from 2010 to 2011 to be feasible.
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post #94 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RC-J View Post

And while being energy star 5.0 certified to I suppose. That's ambitious to go for numbers the kuro didn't have using 30ish% more power.

If those specs are possible that set will be very expensive.

IMO that is too bug of a jump from 2010 to 2011 to be feasible.

I would love for this to be true. New AR coating and thinner, more elegant designs would be welcome.

I saw a demo of those "invisible speakers" and they looked really neat.

.001 fL only in one picture mode sounds kind of strange though. Shouldn't MLL be the same regardless of picture mode?
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post #95 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

There was some supposed info released on another forum in regards to 2011 models:



1080Hz Sub-Field Drive: For the smoothest 3D motion.

24 Bit Panel: For thousands more shades per color.

20% Increase in Color: From 115% to 135% of HD Color Standard

Deeper Contrast: 0.001 ft-L in THX Mode.

Brighter Picture (and Better Efficiency): With a peak brightness that resembles LCD's.

Improved 3D & 2D Processing

New Nano Anti-Reflective Coating: Will produce a screen with virtually no glare.

Licensed Technology from Emo Labs and their 'Invisible Speaker': Better sound with "no speakers".

New & Improved GUI

Newly Designed Cosmetics with Thinner Panel & Thinner Bezel


Hi,

Any idea if there will be a rendered form of 2D to 3D conversion option with the 2011 Panny's? Samsung & Sony currently offer it & so will LG, Toshiba & Sharp - surely Panasonic should think about doing the same if only to stay up with the competition if nothing else?

Bazzy!
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post #96 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,

Any idea if there will be a rendered form of 2D to 3D conversion option with the 2011 Panny's? Samsung & Sony currently offer it & so will LG, Toshiba & Sharp - surely Panasonic should think about doing the same if only to stay up with the competition if nothing else?

Bazzy!

Yes it will, considering newer 2010 models in japan feature 2d-3d conversion
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post #97 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

Yes it will, considering newer 2010 models in japan feature 2d-3d conversion

Hi,

That's good to hear! I hope hope they are somewhat aesthetically pleasing next year and not have any of those nasty Panasonic "touches" to them!

Bazzy!
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post #98 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by heckheck View Post

Does anyone know roughly how Panasonic sales are doing this year? Has the debacle over rising blacks and other purported problems given them any grief in market share?

-Jim

panny reported on 29 july 1Q AVC division which included plasma TV rose 8% in sales YoY and ¥27.9b profit from ¥13.6b loss.

Further sales breakdown reveals plasma was up 6% YoY to ¥130.9b while LCD was actually up 36% to ¥102.3b
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post #99 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

There was some supposed info released on another forum in regards to 2011 models:



1080Hz Sub-Field Drive: For the smoothest 3D motion.

24 Bit Panel: For thousands more shades per color.

20% Increase in Color: From 115% to 135% of HD Color Standard

Deeper Contrast: 0.001 ft-L in THX Mode.

Brighter Picture (and Better Efficiency): With a peak brightness that resembles LCD's.

Improved 3D & 2D Processing

New Nano Anti-Reflective Coating: Will produce a screen with virtually no glare.

Licensed Technology from Emo Labs and their 'Invisible Speaker': Better sound with "no speakers".

New & Improved GUI

Newly Designed Cosmetics with Thinner Panel & Thinner Bezel

That's pretty ambitious. I'll believe it when I see it.
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post #100 of 3328 Old 08-08-2010, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by pcdo View Post


That's pretty ambitious. I'll believe it when I see it.

+1 might as well throw in World Peace as well
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post #101 of 3328 Old 08-09-2010, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Source?

It was posted over in the HiDef Forum, amidst others - the poster was a new guy who posted that info several times and then just vanished. No source or any extra info. Someone is having fun pulling everyone's chain

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post #102 of 3328 Old 08-09-2010, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

It was posted over in the HiDef Forum, amidst others - the poster was a new guy who posted that info several times and then just vanished. No source or any extra info. Someone is having fun pulling everyone's chain

That's how rumors get started.

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post #103 of 3328 Old 08-09-2010, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

I only buy from places that offer a free 5 year extended third party warranty if at all possible.

You will probably be waiting forever... Most manufacturers give a one year warranty on a set that is supposed to last over 30,000 hours.

I paid an extra $300 for a 3 year warranty from Best Buy.
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post #104 of 3328 Old 08-09-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallijonn View Post

You will probably be waiting forever... Most manufacturers give a one year warranty on a set that is supposed to last over 30,000 hours.

I paid an extra $300 for a 3 year warranty from Best Buy.

Hi!

Most places in the UK also offer mainly standard warranties but some brands also offer a free 5 year warranty from time to time depending on the time of year but usually only Japanese brands. The Korean brands never offer this but for those one has to go to some of the few select retailers who do offer either their own or third party warranties.

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post #105 of 3328 Old 08-09-2010, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pcdo View Post

That's pretty ambitious. I'll believe it when I see it.

I don't believe it, but I am willing to be pleasantly surprised.

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post #106 of 3328 Old 08-09-2010, 02:27 PM
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What month in 2011 should their new 65 inch model be released?
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post #107 of 3328 Old 08-09-2010, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

I was in Best Buy yesterday and the guy was telling me the G20s already have some Kuro tech in them. Who knows what's true.

It's not but the screens are better than the year before. The VT20/VT25 which are using a newer version of the NEO-PDP were supposedly a collaboration of the old panasonic engineers and the absorbed Pioneer engineers. How true is that? Speculation at best. That being said the VT20 is a VERY good TV, I'm curious as to how it will age...
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post #108 of 3328 Old 08-09-2010, 04:05 PM
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Hi All,

IFA 2010 will soon be taking place in Berlin so that should give us an idea of things to come hopefully!

Bazzy!
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post #109 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 05:07 PM
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I've come to the conclusion over the last few months, that Panasonic is about 3 years behind Pioneer in terms of the kind of display they can produce. Even with all the Pio engineers working for them, getting this technology to be cost efficient takes time.

It looks like the 2011 VT series should be pretty damn close to a 9G Kuro, while the G might get closer to the 2010 VTs.

2012 MIGHT be "the year" - the year when Panasonic has 101/500m performance.

We're looking at 2013 here for absolute black. I also predict Samsung gets there first.

The Sony xbr4 was a really amazing lcd for the time ($3500), but 3 years later, there is a model that outperforms it for under $800.

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post #110 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

I've come to the conclusion over the last few months, that Panasonic is about 3 years behind Pioneer in terms of the kind of display they can produce. Even with all the Pio engineers working for them, getting this technology to be cost efficient takes time.

It looks like the 2011 VT series should be pretty damn close to a 9G Kuro, while the G might get closer to the 2010 VTs.

2012 MIGHT be "the year" - the year when Panasonic has 101/500m performance.

We're looking at 2013 here for absolute black. I also predict Samsung gets there first.

The Sony xbr4 was a really amazing lcd for the time ($3500), but 3 years later, there is a model that outperforms it for under $800.


Hi,

I understand your viewpoint & agree with most of it but I feel that it might actually take somewhat longer if at all. With Pioneer out if the way, big players like Panasonic & Samsung do not have to give a hoot about being what they produce as long as it can compete with what else is out there in the market place. They will solely & mainly be committed to having an advantage over each other & if you look at how these big companies traditionally operate, they pretty much offer the same sort of performance/features with their sets & compete mainly on price.

Pioneer's lead was unassailable & now with Pioneer gone, there is no clear standard bearer to aspire to or compete with. Panasonic & Samsung are only mainly concerned with the mass market and that is where they will always concentrate unless a new player comes into the market who raises the stakes as significantly as Pioneer did - they might just respond then.

Samsung's main thrust is LCD TV's & it always has been - I doubt very much that they will invest for better blacks for Plasma when the majority of sales is in LCD & not for the 1% of videophiles - this is why they are all offering more & more features allied with the heavy marketing propaganda but each year, we only ever get incremental performance increases from these companies. Panasonic is run by a bunch of conservative old farts who use a very traditional business model & rarely ever change it. JVC was a very minor company when it was owned by Panasonic in the 70's & 80's but it use to regularly blow Panasonic out of the water in all the core product areas the two companies use to compete in - JVC use to strive for innovation, quality & best performance whilst Panasonic just did then what it is doing today - applying the same today - plodding along. I predict that unless Panasonic raise their game significantly, they themselves will be culpable for any future decline in the Plasma market - there are just too many LED LCD Players around offering very highly "attractive" TV's & your average buying Joe Public will always go with what the masses say & do (he does not have to think that way)!

We should ideally be looking next year at a set from Panasonic that would surpass even the G10 Kuro with Fuga Processing seeing as they have had all the tech & quite some time to implement it but I bet you that will just not happen.

Bazzy!
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post #111 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,

I understand your viewpoint & agree with most of it but I feel that it might actually take somewhat longer if at all. With Pioneer out if the way, big players like Panasonic & Samsung do not have to give a hoot about being what they produce as long as it can compete with what else is out there in the market place. They will solely & mainly be committed to having an advantage over each other & if you look at how these big companies traditionally operate, they pretty much offer the same sort of performance/features with their sets & compete mainly on price.

Pioneer's lead was unassailable & now with Pioneer gone, there is no clear standard bearer to aspire to or compete with. Panasonic & Samsung are only mainly concerned with the mass market and that is where they will always concentrate unless a new player comes into the market who raises the stakes as significantly as Pioneer did - they might just respond then.

Samsung's main thrust is LCD TV's & it always has been - I doubt very much that they will invest for better blacks for Plasma when the majority of sales is in LCD & not for the 1% of videophiles - this is why they are all offering more & more features allied with the heavy marketing propaganda but each year, we only ever get incremental performance increases from these companies. Panasonic is run by a bunch of conservative old farts who use a very traditional business model & rarely ever change it. JVC was a very minor company when it was owned by Panasonic in the 70's & 80's but it use to regularly blow Panasonic out of the water in all the core product areas the two companies use to compete in - JVC use to strive for innovation, quality & best performance whilst Panasonic just did then what it is doing today - applying the same today - plodding along. I predict that unless Panasonic raise their game significantly, they themselves will be culpable for any future decline in the Plasma market - there are just too many LED LCD Players around offering very highly "attractive" TV's & your average buying Joe Public will always go with what the masses say & do (he does not have to think that way)!

We should ideally be looking next year at a set from Panasonic that would surpass even the G10 Kuro with Fuga Processing seeing as they have had all the tech & quite some time to implement it but I bet you that will just not happen.

Bazzy!

They'll definitely surpass Kuro within the next 3 years. I mean, they have the Pio engineers. It will most likely start with the V series, and then trickle down to the G series the next year, and maybe the S after that.
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post #112 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 05:40 PM
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Panasonic and Samsung never had to worry about Pioneer's plasma performance in the first place. Pioneer was never a major player in their market and a threat to Panasonic's PDP sales.

With the Pioneer patents, former Pio engineers, and Panasonic's own PDP manufacturing prowess, I have a hard time believing that Panny is missing something technically to equal or exceed the performance of a 500M/101FD. Rather, I think the main stumbling block is trying to get that level of performance while also meeting their other major objective of reducing manufacturing costs year over year.
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post #113 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Panasonic and Samsung never had to worry about Pioneer's plasma performance in the first place. Pioneer was never a major player in their market and a threat to Panasonic's PDP sales.

With the Pioneer patents, former Pio engineers, and Panasonic's own PDP manufacturing prowess, I have a hard time believing that Panny is missing something technically to equal or exceed the performance of a 500M/101FD. Rather, I think the main stumbling block is trying to get that level of performance while also meeting their other major objective of reducing manufacturing costs year over year.

As LG and Samsung improve their black levels, which both have dramatically this year, Panasonic is going to have to make strides in their MLL as well. If the trend continues, it looks like both Sam and LG could match this years Panasonic MLL. They don't have a choice
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post #114 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

As LG and Samsung improve their black levels, which both have dramatically this year, Panasonic is going to have to make strides in their MLL as well. If the trend continues, it looks like both Sam and LG could match this years Panasonic MLL. They don't have a choice

Samsung improved their black levels last year and got very close or equal to Panasonic territory, but they actually went backwards this year if you look at the measurements for 2010 models.

LG also improved this year to about where Samsung was last year, but who knows how next year's models perform? For all we know, LG may drop out of PDP altogether (they were considering doing that last year). At the end of the day, these are both LCD heavy companies and I don't expect any serious investment in PDP tech or further improvements in black level, especially LG.

I think Panasonic made the biggest stride with plasma tech this year reaching .004 fL on the VT (halving their typical black level from the past few years), and equaling the best 8G Kuros. Samsung and LG are still hovering in Panasonic black level territory from 3-4 years ago. There is absolutely no way LG or Samsung will reach 8G Kuro blacks.
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post #115 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 05:55 PM
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Looks like we know where the Pioneer engineers who DIDN'T get hired by Panasonic went...

Level playing field for the win. I wouldn't really mind if LG surpassed the other two out there to take the Kuro crown. They generally try to make quality products instead of artificially gimping some of them.
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post #116 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Samsung improved their black levels last year and got very close or equal to Panasonic territory, but they actually went backwards this year if you look at the measurements for 2010 models.

LG also improved this year to about where Samsung was last year, but who knows how next year's models perform? For all we know, LG may drop out of PDP altogether (they were considering doing that last year). At the end of the day, these are both LCD heavy companies and I don't expect any serious investment in PDP tech or further improvements in black level, especially LG.

I think Panasonic made the biggest stride with plasma tech this year reaching .004 fL on the VT (halving their typical black level from the past few years), and equaling the best 8G Kuros. Samsung and LG are still hovering in Panasonic black level territory from 3-4 years ago. There is absolutely no way LG or Samsung will reach 8G Kuro blacks.

If they want to remain competitive with Panasonic, they'll either find a way to lower their MLL, or drop out of PDP IMO
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post #117 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

If they want to remain competitive with Panasonic, they'll either find a way to lower their MLL, or drop out of PDP IMO

I think Samsung will stay in the PDP business unlike LG, but I don't think they will try to lower their MLL to 8G or 9G Kuro level, as that will require too much investment. Samsung PDP will obviously continue to compete VERY strongly with Panasonic PDP, but it will do so through lower prices, sleeker cosmetics, and features, the same way it has been doing the last couple of years.

Or then again, maybe Samsung will get ballsy and just reverse engineer the Kuro plasmas and take whatever litigation comes their way. I certainly wouldn't complain.
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post #118 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Panasonic and Samsung never had to worry about Pioneer's plasma performance in the first place. Pioneer was never a major player in their market and a threat to Panasonic's PDP sales.

With the Pioneer patents, former Pio engineers, and Panasonic's own PDP manufacturing prowess, I have a hard time believing that Panny is missing something technically to equal or exceed the performance of a 500M/101FD. Rather, I think the main stumbling block is trying to get that level of performance while also meeting their other major objective of reducing manufacturing costs year over year.

This is why I thought Panasonic was so bullish about improving luminous efficacy. 10 lumen tech was supposed to allow for a host of improvements, one of which was dramatically reducing cost.

The optical filter was supposed to be something that wouldn't be needed once 10 lumen tech was implemented, although I don't understand this from an engineering standpoint. This was supposed to also radically cut cost.

The 10 lumen thread shows all the improvements that could be made- can't remember near any of them other than improved blacks and grayscale.

I'm not sure what the 2010 S,G, and VT are at -somewhere above 5 lumens/watt. If the 2007 models were 2 lumens/watt, it's possible that they're up to 8 if Panasonic is claiming 4x luminous efficacy?

There could possibly be a run from LG, since they've become determined to release very high quality products into the marketplace.

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post #119 of 3328 Old 08-20-2010, 10:56 PM
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I think Samsung will stay in the PDP business unlike LG, but I don't think they will try to lower their MLL to 8G or 9G Kuro level, as that will require too much investment. Samsung PDP will obviously continue to compete VERY strongly with Panasonic PDP, but it will do so through lower prices, sleeker cosmetics, and features, the same way it has been doing the last couple of years.

Or then again, maybe Samsung will get ballsy and just reverse engineer the Kuro plasmas and take whatever litigation comes their way. I certainly wouldn't complain.

As per my previous post, this is the same strategic mistake plasma guys made more than 5 years back. The threat to plasma makers are not the other plasma makers. It is the LCD guys.
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post #120 of 3328 Old 08-23-2010, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Looks like we know where the Pioneer engineers who DIDN'T get hired by Panasonic went...

Level playing field for the win. I wouldn't really mind if LG surpassed the other two out there to take the Kuro crown. They generally try to make quality products instead of artificially gimping some of them.

Back in May someone posted this tantalizing tidbit but the thread didn't get too much attention. In fact no one replied.

"Did LG present a study on absolute blacks?"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&highlight=lg

Link is to this agenda, scroll down to section 42.2

https://www.sidmembers.org/ScriptCon...tSearchString=

"... we wonÂt be stopping plasma production any time soon. We see it going on for another ten years." -- Kevin Lee, VP, Smart TV Partnerships (Samsung), 1/7/11
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