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post #91 of 122 Old 12-14-2011, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by fcwdev View Post

I think IR issues are back to the level at least 4+ generations ago (i.e. worse than my Panny PX60)

I have an ST30 and I have never experiences any IR. No IR at any time of using my plasma. I would say I have about close to 600 or more hours on it. Now of course, I have seen remnants of some opaque logos or still graphics that I recently watched on a blank no input channel, but that is not IR and can never be seen watching normal content.

Many people here are paranoid about burn in—I am not directing this at you by the way— but if you simply see to balancing your content then all should be fine. Everyone here can argue all day about proper break-in techniques do's and don'ts, but at the end of the day it's about a reasonable amount of balance. Just the other day, I watched the History Channel for about 6 hours straight. The next day just to keep on top of the balance, I put my ST30 on HBO, put it in zoom mode and let it go for a 3 hours until automatic shut off kicked in.
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post #92 of 122 Old 12-14-2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nyislesfan View Post

I have an ST30 and I have never experiences any IR. No IR at any time of using my plasma. I would say I have about close to 600 or more hours on it. Now of course, I have seen remnants of some opaque logos or still graphics that I recently watched on a blank no input channel, but that is not IR and can never be seen watching normal content.

Many people here are paranoid about burn in—I am not directing this at you by the way— but if you simply see to balancing your content then all should be fine. Everyone here can argue all day about proper break-in techniques do's and don'ts, but at the end of the day it's about a reasonable amount of balance. Just the other day, I watched the History Channel for about 6 hours straight. The next day just to keep on top of the balance, I put my ST30 on HBO, put it in zoom mode and let it go for a 3 hours until automatic shut off kicked in.

Many people are "paranoid" about burn in for a reason. As I stated prior, there's a panel lottery and some panels are much better than others at resisting IR. Some people get lucky, some people not so much. You happen to have fallen into the lucky category, but not everyone does. Also, being on here as long as I have, I've seen more than a few cocky, overconfident folks such as yourself who abuse their sets like crazy because the don't immediately notice anything and come back a year or two later posting about the IR/BI they got.

Also, like I stated previously LCD's can get IR/BI as well (and other defects). For plasma 150-200hr break-in is a solid idea and then going easy up to 1-1.5k hours before being a bit more loose with your content. That's if you want to be careful (which obv. depends on how much you paid for your set). Other people abuse their sets endlessly from day 1 w/o any problem, but since manufacturers don't cover this defect, it's a game of chance.
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post #93 of 122 Old 12-14-2011, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Many people are "paranoid" about burn in for a reason. As I stated prior, there's a panel lottery and some panels are much better than others at resisting IR. Some people get lucky, some people not so much. You happen to have fallen into the lucky category, but not everyone does. Also, being on here as long as I have, I've seen more than a few cocky, overconfident folks such as yourself who abuse their sets like crazy because the don't immediately notice anything and come back a year or two later posting about the IR/BI they got.

Also, like I stated previously LCD's can get IR/BI as well (and other defects). For plasma 150-200hr break-in is a solid idea and then going easy up to 1-1.5k hours before being a bit more loose with your content. That's if you want to be careful (which obv. depends on how much you paid for your set). Other people abuse their sets endlessly from day 1 w/o any problem, but since manufacturers don't cover this defect, it's a game of chance.

Didn't realize I was being cocky and overconfident, but think what you want, I have no control over what you think.

Personally, I know of a few people—real life people who exist, not a poster on a forum—who own older plasma's and some newer ones. All use their plasmas just like me, watching it everyday normally. Not one of them have a ruined, burned in plasma. A sports bar I go to on occasion has plasmas hanging on the wall, it opened 4 years ago. They are Panasonic's and I believe all are still original sets. They are on 14 hours a day, 7 days a week. All still show no burn in after getting abused with still graphics that I would never attempt on mine. Not saying burn in is not possible. I just choose to not worry about that much, I do balance my watching habits.
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post #94 of 122 Old 12-14-2011, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nyislesfan View Post

Didn't realize I was being cocky and overconfident, but think what you want, I have no control over what you think.

Personally, I know of a few peoplereal life people who exist, not a poster on a forumwho own older plasma's and some newer ones. All use their plasmas just like me, watching it everyday normally. Not one of them have a ruined, burned in plasma. A sports bar I go to on occasion has plasmas hanging on the wall, it opened 4 years ago. They are Panasonic's and I believe all are still original sets. They are on 14 hours a day, 7 days a week. All still show no burn in after getting abused with still graphics that I would never attempt on mine. Not saying burn in is not possible. I just choose to not worry about that much, I do balance my watching habits.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to insult you. What I'm saying is that it's very easy if you haven't run into a problem to just wing it and figure everything will be ok. My LCD that got IR cost more than your ST30 so it was by no means a cheapo monitor, but hey what do I know LCD can't get IR right? My point is do whatever you want on your own set, but if you're giving someone else advice it's better to err on the cautious side than the reckless side - unless you're willing to pay for someone's set if something negative happens as a result of what you told them.
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post #95 of 122 Old 12-14-2011, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to insult you. What I'm saying is that it's very easy if you haven't run into a problem to just wing it and figure everything will be ok. My LCD that got IR cost more than your ST30 so it was by no means a cheapo monitor, but hey what do I know LCD can't get IR right? My point is do whatever you want on your own set, but if you're giving someone else advice it's better to err on the cautious side than the reckless side - unless you're willing to pay for someone's set if something negative happens as a result of what you told them.

@dlplover

I fully understand and respect your point of view. I do forget sometimes, that unlike us and others on these board, There are those who actually don't bother to research the technology they plan of buying and using everyday. I was very cautious during the first 200 hours on my ST30. I also see to it that I balance my viewing habits. I feel anyone planing to use a plasma normally with mixed content will "likely" be fine. But if you are buying a plasma to day trade, that's a bad idea. Baseball is the only sport I feel that might/could be an issue for a plasma owner. If a baseball fan watches 162 games a year, after a few years that could be an issue. Baseball is also slow enough for an LCD, so a plasma for baseball action isn't a must have. But for my Hockey games, I need my plasma

dlplover, you have a Elite Kuro, right? Seen a few in person, great sets. I just enjoy the look of plasma much better then LCD. Here is to hoping our sets last a long time!
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post #96 of 122 Old 01-02-2012, 07:57 PM
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Well, I have a Panasonic VT25 and this has occurred while watching 4hrs of Ghost Adventures back to back on "The Travel Channel HD" via my DVR. The HD portion is visible even after slides/white wash left on for 20 minutes/ & full screen TV viewing. I've uploaded some images. It is mostly visible on a green slide or white background. My contrast was 60, and brightness was 62. I have about 700-800hrs on my set. Purchased 12/09/10.
I love this TV, but burn in is real, and those that say they don't have it probably haven't looked hard enough. If you are a gamer, and have played for many hours on your set, most likely it's there and you just haven't noticed it.
On the matter of station logo's, something needs to be done to get these Turner/Discovery channels to change their ways. Does it really need to come down to a class action lawsuit to make these logo's transparent or too at least move them round the screen after commercial breaks?
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post #97 of 122 Old 01-02-2012, 09:08 PM
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Greenhorn - I suggest you try pixel protector. http://www.pixelprotector.com/default.asp I have it and I think it works pretty good. I get stubborn image retention sometimes on my plasma. I have a 2.5 year old panasonic 50v10. I watch alot of ESPN and mine will get a faint image of that ticker bar if left on there too long. I run the snow screen overnight and it gets rid of it. It's worth a shot. I agree with you about stations and there stupid logos though. They need to get rid of them! Especially ESPN, there logo constantly stays on the screen. Along with that sports ticker bar. I hate it!
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post #98 of 122 Old 01-03-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green horn View Post

Well, I have a Panasonic VT25 and this has occurred while watching 4hrs of Ghost Adventures back to back on "The Travel Channel HD" via my DVR. The HD portion is visible even after slides/white wash left on for 20 minutes/ & full screen TV viewing. I've uploaded some images. It is mostly visible on a green slide or white background. My contrast was 60, and brightness was 62. I have about 700-800hrs on my set. Purchased 12/09/10.
I love this TV, but burn in is real, and those that say they don't have it probably haven't looked hard enough. If you are a gamer, and have played for many hours on your set, most likely it's there and you just haven't noticed it.
On the matter of station logo's, something needs to be done to get these Turner/Discovery channels to change their ways. Does it really need to come down to a class action lawsuit to make these logo's transparent or too at least move them round the screen after commercial breaks?

Do you think the burn in was from a single 4Hr session the "Travel Channel" after the 700 to 800 hours? Did you skip commercials?
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post #99 of 122 Old 01-03-2012, 09:51 AM
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I have the same issue as green horn. In fact, it's almost eerily similar to his situation. I have the 42 inch GT25 set to THX mode since taking it out the box. The TV has over 1200+ hours on it. I too watched the Travel Channel (Ghost Adventure and No Reservation) from time to time and have IR of the "HD" portion of their logo (Live broadcast though, so it was with commercials). It's been over 3 months and the IR is still there (have avoided the Travel Channel since noticing the IR). At this point, I'm just going to resume using it normally as I only notice it with full screen whites anyway but still a letdown as I have older plasma TVs from 2007 that does not suffer from long term IR.
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post #100 of 122 Old 01-03-2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by g12eyfox View Post

I have the same issue as green horn. In fact, it's almost eerily similar to his situation. I have the 42 inch GT25 set to THX mode since taking it out the box. The TV has over 1200+ hours on it. I too watched the Travel Channel (Ghost Adventure and No Reservation) from time to time and have IR of the "HD" portion of their logo (Live broadcast though, so it was with commercials). It's been over 3 months and the IR is still there (have avoided the Travel Channel since noticing the IR). At this point, I'm just going to resume using it normally as I only notice it with full screen whites anyway but still a letdown as I have older plasma TVs from 2007 that does not suffer from long term IR.

I just sent back my 60ST30 for IR issues along with pink and green tint, but the IR was the deal breaker for me. I have owned several plasmas before, and I know how to vary content, etc. On my ST30 I waited until about 150 hours and thought it would be safe for my daughter watch 4:3 material with gray bars for 1 - 2 hours per day, given that the set is on at least 6 - 8 hours with full screen content. Well, guess what, uneven wear on the 4:3 window, and also several channel logos. Nothing I tried would fix it either, after about 30 - 40 hours I finally gave up and went back to my cheaper LG 60PV450........that I watched hours and hours of 4:3 content with black bars, no issues at all.

I keep reading here and out on the net that something changed with Pansonics since they went to 3D.......and based on my experience I think the reports are correct. I had a 2007 Panasonic that I didn't even try to be careful with because it was a secondary set..........no IR at all.

I feel bad for everyone that is having this issue, I was fortunate enough to have bought my ST30 from Amazon with the holiday return policy, otherwise I would be stuck being that I had it for 40 days before I noticed the IR.
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post #101 of 122 Old 01-03-2012, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by g12eyfox View Post

I have the same issue as green horn. In fact, it's almost eerily similar to his situation. I have the 42 inch GT25 set to THX mode since taking it out the box. The TV has over 1200+ hours on it. I too watched the Travel Channel (Ghost Adventure and No Reservation) from time to time and have IR of the "HD" portion of their logo (Live broadcast though, so it was with commercials). It's been over 3 months and the IR is still there (have avoided the Travel Channel since noticing the IR). At this point, I'm just going to resume using it normally as I only notice it with full screen whites anyway but still a letdown as I have older plasma TVs from 2007 that does not suffer from long term IR.

Even-though you are pretty far along, I would recommend not using THX mode with the default Size 2 . From what I understand it disables the pixel orbiter, at least on the VT30.


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Originally Posted by lifesun View Post

I just sent back my 60ST30 for IR issues along with pink and green tint, but the IR was the deal breaker for me. I have owned several plasmas before, and I know how to vary content, etc. On my ST30 I waited until about 150 hours and thought it would be safe for my daughter watch 4:3 material with gray bars for 1 - 2 hours per day, given that the set is on at least 6 - 8 hours with full screen content. Well, guess what, uneven wear on the 4:3 window, and also several channel logos. Nothing I tried would fix it either, after about 30 - 40 hours I finally gave up and went back to my cheaper LG 60PV450........that I watched hours and hours of 4:3 content with black bars, no issues at all.

I keep reading here and out on the net that something changed with Pansonics since they went to 3D.......and based on my experience I think the reports are correct. I had a 2007 Panasonic that I didn't even try to be careful with because it was a secondary set..........no IR at all.

I feel bad for everyone that is having this issue, I was fortunate enough to have bought my ST30 from Amazon with the holiday return policy, otherwise I would be stuck being that I had it for 40 days before I noticed the IR.

lifesun,

Do these reports cite anything specific to IR? Can you provide a link?

As I mentioned earlier I am having IR issues on my VT30. My first unit was returned mainly for the pink and green blotches, but had IR. Now my replacement unit is starting to show some minor IR. I've been super careful, but I am getting vertical IR line right around the edge of the 4:3 area. I do not watch 4:3 content, but I notice many of the commercials are still in 4:3.
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post #102 of 122 Old 01-03-2012, 12:10 PM
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Thanks for the feedback fcwdev. I had it enabled in the menu but just assumed it was activated in all modes (standard, thx, custom, etc.).
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post #103 of 122 Old 01-03-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcwdev View Post

Even-though you are pretty far along, I would recommend not using THX mode with the default Size 2 . From what I understand it disables the pixel orbiter, at least on the VT30.




lifesun,

Do these reports cite anything specific to IR? Can you provide a link?

As I mentioned earlier I am having IR issues on my VT30. My first unit was returned mainly for the pink and green blotches, but had IR. Now my replacement unit is starting to show some minor IR. I've been super careful, but I am getting vertical IR line right around the edge of the 4:3 area. I do not watch 4:3 content, but I notice many of the commercials are still in 4:3.


Sorry, I don't have any links. If you google plasma burn in, burn in fix, etc. I found that a vast majority of the complaints pertain to later model Panasonics and some Samsungs. I stopped looking for more info a few days ago when I found out that I was within the return period, so I am happy its going back.
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post #104 of 122 Old 01-03-2012, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fcwdev View Post

Do you think the burn in was from a single 4Hr session the "Travel Channel" after the 700 to 800 hours? Did you skip commercials?

Yep! Mind you, I love ghost Adventures, but hate commercials hence the reasoning behind a DVR. Yes, I did skip through the commercials and was back to the program in 15-20sec. I had no idea what was happening. I would consider myself pretty cautious about what I watch. The static image was not there in November (or at least I did not see it over normal programs/Movies). I watched 4 episodes of GA's and turned off the TV. A few days back, I noticed something odd while watching another program on (CBS), and was like, what is that in the lower right corner (I could see it from 8-10ft away). I went to a clear screen and bam, there it was as you see in the pictures. I was so pissed!!! Here I paid over $2K for this TV, and was careful, and this is what happened.
I will say, it's fading a little, but I still notice it and can see the (HD) portion. I don't think you can see it in the pictures, but the whole thing was there, not just the (HD), but the words travel channel (the whole logo). I'm sure I'm not the only plasma owner out there that has been effected by these bright station bugs/logos/ or what ever they are called. I see " g12eyfox" is having the same issue and millions more.
Now, I'm not here to bad mouth plasma. In fact, as it stands, I find plasma to be the best/warmest/as close to CR tube as a TV can get. Each technology of TV viewing has it's weakness, unfortunately for plasma, it's this image retention/burn in.
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post #105 of 122 Old 01-04-2012, 09:27 AM
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Doing a quick google search, I found the review on the VT30 that mentioned issues with Image retention when compared to the pre-3D models (2009): http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1303892383

However, there is no actually numbers/scientific method used to truly confirmed it besides the reviewer anecdotal experience.
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post #106 of 122 Old 01-04-2012, 10:05 AM
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I just want to add here that I have a 60GT30, and I have burn in or image retention from playing gears of war 3. I had played for hours after having done a 100 hr break in.

I know that I am not going to change anyone's mind here, but I know for a fact that if I had played on my soon to be 3 year old G15 that there wouldn't have been burn in. In fact I had many multiple hour sessions on that plasma and never resulted in temporary IR or burn in.

I am convinced that these newer sets are more susceptible to burn in than that of older ones.

I just hope that I can get rid of this burn in I have now...
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post #107 of 122 Old 01-04-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

I just want to add here that I have a 60GT30, and I have burn in or image retention from playing gears of war 3. I had played for hours after having done a 100 hr break in.

I know that I am not going to change anyone's mind here, but I know for a fact that if I had played on my soon to be 3 year old G15 that there wouldn't have been burn in. In fact I had many multiple hour sessions on that plasma and never resulted in temporary IR or burn in.

I am convinced that these newer sets are more susceptible to burn in than that of older ones.

I just hope that I can get rid of this burn in I have now...

What do you have burned in from Gears 3. I played it briefly on my VT30 before getting too nervous about IR, but thought it was relatively safe since there was no regular on screen static images. The ammo status fades in and out, etc. I'm now playing it on my older V10 and agree with your comments. I see temporary IR on the V10, but it always fades.
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post #108 of 122 Old 01-04-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

I just want to add here that I have a 60GT30, and I have burn in or image retention from playing gears of war 3. I had played for hours after having done a 100 hr break in.

I know that I am not going to change anyone's mind here, but I know for a fact that if I had played on my soon to be 3 year old G15 that there wouldn't have been burn in. In fact I had many multiple hour sessions on that plasma and never resulted in temporary IR or burn in.

I am convinced that these newer sets are more susceptible to burn in than that of older ones.

I just hope that I can get rid of this burn in I have now...

Burn in and stubborn ir are two different things!

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post #109 of 122 Old 01-04-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcwdev View Post

What do you have burned in from Gears 3. I played it briefly on my VT30 before getting too nervous about IR, but thought it was relatively safe since there was no regular on screen static images. The ammo status fades in and out, etc. I'm now playing it on my older V10 and agree with your comments. I see temporary IR on the V10, but it always fades.

On the top right, the ammo, or hud I suppose, is there with a shotgun image. That image is there and mostly noticeable when there is white on the tv. Other than that I don't see it often. I am hoping this is temporary IR, but it does have a hint of red to it which might mean in is burn in?

Maybe that disappears in campaign mode? Not sure. I play a lot online.

One other thought, someone in my house hold left my tv on for almost...22 hours straight . It was one a static image too...And that image was there for the better part of a week, now I think I may see some remnants here and there...but I think about 99% of it is gone.
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post #110 of 122 Old 01-04-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Burn in and stubborn ir are two different things!

I get the two terms confused.

I do believe I have burn-in though judging by the length of time I have seen the same image on my screen...
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post #111 of 122 Old 01-04-2012, 08:24 PM
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My ir/burn in/ghosting from Ncaa 2010 hasn't gone away yet, and its been over 100 hours(vt20) since I noticed it(even after pixel flipper and snow runs). Ill update at the 1000 hour mark, but I don't see it changing.
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post #112 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 08:08 AM
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I purchased the TC-P65VT30 in Dec 2011. I have an MJ series with EEP updated. I ran the Evangelo slides and have D-nice settings. (Seems THX looks better IMHO). I have 512 hours on the TV as per the admin menu. I started gaming on the TV ~2 months after getting the unit.

Unfortunately, burn-in is real. The Call of Duty HUD is burned in at all the edges of the screen. I played on standard setting with the pixel orbiter turned on. Here we are in Sept 2012 and no matter what I do the HUD image is visible on white and green scenes. I'm really disappointed mad.gif considering the what I paid for the unit.

People burn in is real and just because it doesn't happen to you or those it does happen to are in the minority does not alleviate their very real grievances. In fact right on one of the very 1st pages on the manual it warns you about this issue not being covered by the warranty. If this wasn't a known issue the manufacturer would not warn you about it.

Now every time a snowy or grassy landscape comes on I am reminded of my $2600 mistake. eek.gif
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post #113 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 12:26 PM
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Plasma burn-in is definitely real. Every manual and online FAQ from the manufacturer will tell you that. Samsung states "nothing static for more than 5% (!) of the viewing time" or something like that. 5%!

Anecdotally, Samsung handles burning and IR the best. Mine (E530) gets IR very easily, and very quickly - but after a few minutes of mixed content or the scrolling screen, it's gone. I put on 300 hours in slides and scrolling first, as well. Still tons of IR. Anyone who doesn't see it isn't looking for it! White, grey and green screens show you everything!
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post #114 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

Plasma burn-in is definitely real. Every manual and online FAQ from the manufacturer will tell you that. Samsung states "nothing static for more than 5% (!) of the viewing time" or something like that. 5%!
Anecdotally, Samsung handles burning and IR the best. Mine (E530) gets IR very easily, and very quickly - but after a few minutes of mixed content or the scrolling screen, it's gone. I put on 300 hours in slides and scrolling first, as well. Still tons of IR. Anyone who doesn't see it isn't looking for it! White, grey and green screens show you everything!

My two Samsung LCD panels have pretty much the same warning in the manual as my Pioneer plasma. wink.gif
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post #115 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by HTguru3 View Post

My two Samsung LCD panels have pretty much the same warning in the manual as my Pioneer plasma. wink.gif

Unfortunately I placed too much stock on this forum's ubiquitous refrain of "burn in is a thing of the past." I saw the warning in the manual after the burn in happened. Use caution or buyer beware.
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post #116 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 01:14 PM
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As mentioned in another thread. Run a full white screen for as many hours as it takes to get rid of the IR/burn-in problem. Try a maximum test of. 48-72 hours straight white screen without turning the TV off. If this doesn't work at least you can say you tried everything.
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post #117 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

As mentioned in another thread. Run a full white screen for as many hours as it takes to get rid of the IR/burn-in problem. Try a maximum test of. 48-72 hours straight white screen without turning the TV off. If this doesn't work at least you can say you tried everything.

Thanks Andy! I will definitely give this a try.
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post #118 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 01:46 PM
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Just a note - due to how plasmas work, a "full white screen" slide will not be the maximum brightness of the plasma cell, so it will not be the maximum stress to bring the uniformity back. This is why the IR scrolling bar is narrow, you know? There are better ways to try to fix IR, like snowy/static screen, or pixel flipper programs. All-white is for fixing LCD image persistence, not plasma. Just thought you should know.

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post #119 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 02:01 PM
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Ok ... not sure what to do.
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post #120 of 122 Old 09-25-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

Just a note - due to how plasmas work, a "full white screen" slide will not be the maximum brightness of the plasma cell, so it will not be the maximum stress to bring the uniformity back. This is why the IR scrolling bar is narrow, you know? There are better ways to try to fix IR, like snowy/static screen, or pixel flipper programs. All-white is for fixing LCD image persistence, not plasma. Just thought you should know.

zoyd posted an mpg which he did up on high def junkies. Perhaps he posted it here too. Search under the thread to do with IR/Burn in there. Better than running the scrolling bar as it does not time out. Just crank it up to maximum contrast and with the alternating black and white you do not get hit by ABL.

Edit: The thread is Burn Baby Burn..... Post #138
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