Buying Advice...PN58CN6500, similar Viera, or something else entirely? - AVS Forum
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been trying to choose a solid plasma to replace a dated but otherwise lovely 60" Sony SXRD. I would love to stay in the 55-58" bracket. Picture quality is obviously the largest deciding factor, but I also need something that can handle games fairly well.

I was looking at the CN6500, which I've heard good things about, but I've seen similarly priced Viera's with decent reviews. Or, is there another display someone might recommend that has great overall performance and a beautiful (long-lasting) picture?

My budget is running between 1500-2000 dollars. I would love to stay below the 1800 dollar price point, if at all possible.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:32 AM
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I've been in the EXACT same place for a year or so. Came down to the SAME 2 sets after I eliminated LG for having just a bit too much lag and not enough visual pop.


You shouldn't be upset with either(so long as the tv WORKS LOL!). For me it was down to the POP and sharpness of the Sammy vs the near zero game lag and smoothness of the Panny.

I went with Sammy for pop and less chance of rising black levels and it will be here in less than 4 hours. I'll tell ya how it worked out as soon as I get it set up!


And trust me......if I'm not happy I WILL say something. LOL!!!
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Much appreciated. Take your time with it and let me know how it works out. I'd love some insight.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:36 PM
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OK. I'm 8 hours in on my new c6500.

I have to admit I almost blew my top when I cranked up Halo Reach and saw piles of blur/ghosting when moving from side to side. HOWEVER the picture was so damned good I decided to keep it anyway and see if I could work it out.(more on this later)

I haven't updated the firmware since it has 1026 but I DID change to a c8000 in the service menu. I like the extra tweaking options quite a bit.

I don't think I could be much happier with the picture for movies and directv. I just don't. When my biggest problem is tryin to decide whether I wanna see every pore on their faces or to smooth it out to where they look like we see people every day I'm in a very good place.


Now....back to games. I started thinking to myself that I remembered my brother moaning about blurriness in Halo Reach and he still uses a glass CRT set. So, I decided to pop in COD MW 2. OHHHH HELL YEAH!!! No blurriness or ghosting at ALL. Had it in game mode and turned it off to see if it was blur or ghosting without game mode enabled. NOPE!! What I had thought was this sets only fault was a problem IN THE GAME!!

Oh annnnnd...............NO BUZZ!! There's the normal humming that plasmas give off, but no buzz. Certainly nothing like I've seen recorded on youtube.



I know I have tons of tweaks and hours of break-in to do but I think it's safe to say I'm extremely happy. Soooooooo glad I decided to return the LED set I ordered months ago and come over to the darkside that is plasma.

I have one thing that will be tough to get used to. Over the years nearly everything I've owned has been LCD in one form or another or glass CRT sets. I had no idea how natural it is for me to pause the TV and walk out of the room for hours sometimes. Well, time for me to learn a new way of doing things! Hell......it'll be cheaper on my power bill.



Once again........SUPER HAPPY thus far with the c6500!
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the great rundown Lantern. I was honestly leaning toward the C6500, so this really seals the deal for me. I've read too many good things about it thus far. And the fact that you're able to change the menus to emulate the 8000, huge bonus -- and something I was unaware of until now; thanks!

Now, to find the cheapest retailer...

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Old 10-15-2010, 07:22 AM
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Is the c6500 basically competitor to the Panasonic G20/25? I'm looking at the two and trying to decide between the G20 and 6500 myself.
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:39 AM
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I believe more or less it is. Next step down from the top 3d models. The GT25 sort of fits where the C7000 is.
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe it's a closer competitor to their 58S2, although the Samsung is the better performer (however, you can grab a 58S2 on the cheap, thereby mitigating the price-vs-performance argument a bit).
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:01 AM
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My Pioneer 5070 needs replacing so I'm looking at either the Samsung 6500 or Panasonic G20/25 in 50" size.

Few questions.

Is the 6500 and 7000 the same quality otherwise except for the inclusion of 3D?
Can you get the the 8000 menu system for calibration with the 6500. I've read that you can calibrate the 6500 mll down to close the the G20.
Is there another alternative I missed?

I might consider the 7000 or GT25 if the 2D picture quality and black levels are better than the 6500/G20. 3D is a nice to have but not a priority. Want the best 2D between these 4 sets. Any opinion would be appreciated.
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Ostensibly, the main difference between the 6500 and 7000 is 3D support. However, I've read the 6500 black performance has been noticeably better than the 7000 -- whether or not this is due to the tech driving the displays' 3D engine, I cannot say for sure, but that is my guess.

Lantern is probably the man to ask where the menu tweaks are concerned, as I don't own the display, and was unaware that the 8000 calibration options were even available on the 6500 with a simple service menu adjustment (my mind was sufficiently blown when I read that this morning).

Although, as I said above, I do not own the display, I have read nothing but good things about the black performance of the C6500. It was Panasonic's 2009 and early 2010 displays that were in question there, as they (reportedly) lost black performance fairly quickly over time.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:11 AM
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For that price range and much closer to $1600 you might want to check out the LG 60PK950.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Besides the extra two inches, what are some of the other benefits of the 60PK950 when compared to the C6500 (I believe I've read a few reviews of the K950 that said it could handle 1080/24, and I seem to remember the C6500 could not...).
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:36 PM
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If anybody is still on the fence because its near impossible(at least for me) to see a c6500 in stores to side by side compare I can say that the c6500 sitting in front of me now is EASILY the match for the 2D performance of the c7000.



What I'm getting at is that it is not a stretch to compare the g25 and the c7000 assuming that the 7000 has the same picture quality. To be honest I'm thinking the 2d performance of my c6500 is better than what I saw in the 7000 in the stores. Maybe a product of one have 3d and the other not......just a shot in the dark on that one.


My two biggest fears on this set were 1 blur/ghosting in games and 2 the dreaded buzz. So much so that I was trying to ease the pain before even getting the set by telling myself that if the blur wasn't too bad its ok cause I don't game as hardcore anymore......and that if it did buzz I probably would get used to it since as anyone with a directv dvr or an xbox 360 can tell ya it sucks but it beats doing without. LOL!!!!

Luckily I am without either problem and couldn't be more excited about football games this weekend on my new toy.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commonmind View Post

Ostensibly, the main difference between the 6500 and 7000 is 3D support. However, I've read the 6500 black performance has been noticeably better than the 7000 -- whether or not this is due to the tech driving the displays' 3D engine, I cannot say for sure, but that is my guess.

Interesting. Where did you read that?

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Old 10-15-2010, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I honestly can't remember the source. I've read far too many reviews these past few days. There is an Amazon review for the 50" CN6500 that reinforces this statement, but it's not a reliable source, so I would take it with a grain of salt.

I'd also suggest taking anything I've said with a grain of salt, as I've been back and forth between so many models and so many different write-ups that anything I say is likely riddled with misinformation.

Sorry

If I happen along the info I'll be sure and pass it along for you.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Now I'm a little stumped. After reading more reviews for the PK950, I'm torn between it and the C6500.
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commonmind View Post

I honestly can't remember the source. I've read far too many reviews these past few days. There is an Amazon review for the 50" CN6500 that reinforces this statement, but it's not a reliable source, so I would take it with a grain of salt.

I'd also suggest taking anything I've said with a grain of salt, as I've been back and forth between so many models and so many different write-ups that anything I say is likely riddled with misinformation.

Sorry

If I happen along the info I'll be sure and pass it along for you.

Cool. I just always thought they were the same panels and I know that c7000s usually measure .007-.008 with cinema smooth off. If the c6500 goes even lower then that, it would be really impressive. I figured they were basically the same just minus the 3d.

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Old 10-16-2010, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commonmind View Post

Now I'm a little stumped. After reading more reviews for the PK950, I'm torn between it and the C6500.


I sooooo know what you're going through! To be frank, I think the c6500 has a juuuust slightly better picture and blacks. However, the LG brings correct 24hz playback(whether ya notice or not) and is apparently MUCH less apt to be a buzzer.

As far as gaming goes the LG is supposed to have less trailing than other brands but typically LG has had slightly more lag, but mostly only super nerds like myself would notice.

(slight gripe is they have outward facing hdmi slots like the panny.)


In the end I would say this set competes well in image quality while avoiding the rising blacks and buzzing of other brands. So, if you are buying online for the lowest price and don't wanna deal with the chance of sending sets back until you get a quiet one I would absolutely go with the PK950. Just make sure you buy from a good dealer with easy return policies if something DOES go wrong.


Whichever way you go, so long as there isn't a glaring problem, I think you will be happy with any of these sets in your home. And that's the funny. These set REALLY look better than they do on the show floor once you get them outta the super lights. A real added bonus for something you thought was good enough to buy in the first place!




Ooops! Forgot one thing. I really like the wand and app display on the LG. If you are by chance using this set in the bedroom it would make for a nice addition. In the living room its still nice but not as much of a plus as in the bedroom. But, that's just me....I like gadgets.
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commonmind View Post

Now I'm a little stumped. After reading more reviews for the PK950, I'm torn between it and the C6500.

commonmind, I'm in the same boat as you since I'm torn between these 2 sets. Which has the better AR filter in your opinion, LG's true black filter, or Samsung?
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantern View Post

I sooooo know what you're going through! To be frank, I think the c6500 has a juuuust slightly better picture and blacks. However, the LG brings correct 24hz playback(whether ya notice or not) and is apparently MUCH less apt to be a buzzer.

As far as gaming goes the LG is supposed to have less trailing than other brands but typically LG has had slightly more lag, but mostly only super nerds like myself would notice.

(slight gripe is they have outward facing hdmi slots like the panny.)

In the end I would say this set competes well in image quality while avoiding the rising blacks and buzzing of other brands. So, if you are buying online for the lowest price and don't wanna deal with the chance of sending sets back until you get a quiet one I would absolutely go with the PK950. Just make sure you buy from a good dealer with easy return policies if something DOES go wrong.

Whichever way you go, so long as there isn't a glaring problem, I think you will be happy with any of these sets in your home. And that's the funny. These set REALLY look better than they do on the show floor once you get them outta the super lights. A real added bonus for something you thought was good enough to buy in the first place!

Ooops! Forgot one thing. I really like the wand and app display on the LG. If you are by chance using this set in the bedroom it would make for a nice addition. In the living room its still nice but not as much of a plus as in the bedroom. But, that's just me....I like gadgets.

I'm just as picky. I moved my Wii to an old 36" Wega simply because I couldn't handle the minuscule amount of lag I experienced on my SXRD while playing anything that required accurate pointer control.

Basically, my dilemma is this: the PK950 is larger, has an all glass front (something I appreciate), has good PQ but some problems with image retention; the C6500 may have slightly better PQ, low profile inputs, and, so far as I can tell, no retention issues to speak of, but I may be investing in an electronic beehive (sans the honey, which is the best part!).

I feel a lot like I did a few years ago when looking at the 60A2020 and Mitsubishi rear projection whose model number I can't seem to remember right now -- they were nearly identical from a performance standpoint; these two displays feel about the same as well.

Although...I am a little concerned about image retention -- I have three kids, who are all frequent gamers, and I work from the home, which means I am in-and-out of the living room all day and do not like the idea of turning on and off the TV every time I wander in to get my mind of the particular block of code that is pissing me off at that moment. I'm also a reformed hardcore gamer, and I'm sure I'll be itching to sit down with the new TV to do some gaming myself.

I guess what I really want is that magical site to come up in my searches which compares these exact two displays against one another and tells me, irrefutably, which one is the better choice -- I have horrible buyer's remorse, if I ever feel I didn't make the right decision.

Thanks so much for the replies, they've been a big help!
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:37 AM
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OK, I hate to break any bubbles, but the c6500 so far has just as much IR as any plasma I've seen. Its extra bad right now since it's still WELL within the first 100-200 hours of break-in where IR is usually much higher.

Just last night I fell asleep before turning my slides on and after the movie I had DVRed ran completely out it left Cartoon network on for 3 hours till I woke up. Yep you guessed it......big fat cartoon network logo stuck on my tv screen. I turned my slides on and went back to bed. Woke up another 3 hours later and the logo was completely gone.


There's not really any way around IR with plasmas. Now BURN-IN is much harder to do these days. From what I've experienced with recent IR it is temporary lasting at 2-3 days if you REALLY screw up.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:46 AM
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BTW, I really like the glass on the LG. It's quite reflective, but I've never had my TVs in a place where I can see reflections(HC gamer lol).


Anyway. I thought I'd mention that I FOUND THE BUZZ! It's silent with my head to the tv, behind the tv and in any of my usual viewing positions. HOWEVER, if I get close to the wall behind me it must reflect off the wall and I can hear it. Sounds like the high pitch noise made from old tube tvs. So, as long as I don't put my head in that 1' square at the back of the room I'm happy. Soooooooo....I'm HAPPY!
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdean View Post

commonmind, I'm in the same boat as you since I'm torn between these 2 sets. Which has the better AR filter in your opinion, LG's true black filter, or Samsung?

I've heard nothing but good things about the LG. Unfortunately, I can't speak for the Samsung, as I haven't found a really comprehensive review that covers the FilterBright quality of this particular display -- I know they use different qualities of filters on different models, and I'm not sure where the 6500 falls in that hierarchy.
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commonmind View Post

I've heard nothing but good things about the LG. Unfortunately, I can't speak for the Samsung, as I haven't found a really comprehensive review that covers the FilterBright quality of this particular display -- I know they use different qualities of filters on different models, and I'm not sure where the 6500 falls in that hierarchy.

commonmind, there are expert & user reviews posted for both these sets at testfreaks.com. Both score very well. Keep us informed of your decision and post your impressions once you have your new LG or Sammy.
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I've been over to Test Freaks already -- which didn't help matters, considering the two displays are so similarly scored

I'm giving myself until the end of the day today and I'll make my choice. And I will absolutely post my impressions here. Considering Lantern's already got the C6500, if I pick up the LG at the very least you'll have two subjective points-of-view to help you along a bit. I'm sure my reaction will be just the same as his -- I'll fret up until it gets to my door, plug it in, and be amazed by its performance and wonder why I worried so much.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:34 AM
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commonmind, have you seen Onecall's incredible pricing on the PK950? Not sure how long its good for.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely! I have a window open with the PK950 sitting in a cart on Onecall.com, and another open with the C6500 sitting in a powersellernyc.com cart.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:47 AM
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The prices on both of these is insanely low.

the extra 2 inches might be the decider for me if I don't go with a 73" mitsu rptv

the lg being 2" bigger and 130-150 cheaper might be the final straw if I go this way.
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:10 PM
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Fellows, the MLL of the C8000, C7000, C6500/6400, and even the C590 and C550/540 are all similar. The reason for different readings is that, after one of the firmware updates, the MLL improved a lot. Also, for MLL, the 50" versions are, usually, not anywhere near as good as the 58" and 63" versions. Whether CS is on or off makes a difference, also, and sometimes quite a bit. Also, there is somewhat of a difference from panel to panel. The result is, that each of the aforementioned TVs, in 58" or 63", with firmware updated, and CS off, has typically measured 0.0065 - 0.009 fL.
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:23 PM
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There isn't a precise equivalency, when comparing Samsung and Panasonic, but this is how it goes, IMHO:

VT25/20 - C8000
GT25/24 - C7000
G25/20 - C6500/6400
S2 - C590 and C550/540
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