Best Plasma TV for Gaming - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I know that every TV has been scrutinized to death on this forum regarding input lag and other gaming issues but I'm looking for some specific advice to help me out. I've done a lot of research myself but I'm hoping to get some quality input from you guys that is a little less scattered.

So basically I purchased a Samsung 46" LED (model #UN46C6300SF) a few days ago and I've been disappointed with it due to the input lag I get while playing games. The lag isn't too terrible with "game mode" on and other post-processing effects turned off but it is still noticeable to me while playing fast paced shooting games. I own a PS3, 360, and Wii. The PS3 and 360 are connected via HDMI cables and the Wii via component. Considering that this is a rather large purchase for me and I want it to last at least 5 years this input lag is a rather large issue.

Anyway, it seems that a lot of people are convinced that plasmas are the best for gaming. With this in mind I'm curious to know what the best plasma TV is for gaming, especially with regards to input lag. I'm not naive enough to think that there is truly a "best" but I'm sure there are plenty of informed opinions around these parts.

Basically I'm looking for something in the $1100 or less category, full 1080p, and 46-50 inches. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, Panasonic plasmas seem pretty appealing so far but I'm still not completely sold.
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post #2 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 07:37 AM
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Panasonic TC-P50G25 would be my choice. Seems the Panasonic has a very low input lag based on what others have said on the playstation forum.
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post #3 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 07:42 AM
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Here is an entire thread dedicated to plasma input lag. Search is your friend!

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post #4 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks mbyrnes but I've already looked over that thread. The input lag data is interesting but I am more interested in individual people's opinions of the best plasma for gaming with regards to input lag AND all other issues. That thread was a good place for me to start though.

Thanks for the reply neoshredder. I was looking at a similar model, the TC-P50G20. Do you know if there are any differences between the two? Also, there is another model, the TC-P50S2, that is about $200 cheaper than the G20.
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post #5 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Darkest_Red View Post

Thanks mbyrnes but I've already looked over that thread. The input lag data is interesting but I am more interested in individual people's opinions of the best plasma for gaming with regards to input lag AND all other issues. That thread was a good place for me to start though.

Thanks for the reply neoshredder. I was looking at a similar model, the TC-P50G20. Do you know if there are any differences between the two? Also, there is another model, the TC-P50S2, that is about $200 cheaper than the G20.

I think the G20 and S2 are similar in that aspect. They both have 1080 lines of motion resolution. THe U2 has 900 lines and C2 has 720 lines. Go with the S2 or G20 for gaming imo. I got the G25 due to superior blacks and more accurate picture. "The S2 doesn't show 24fps and the G25 does" http://forum.digitalhow.com/panny-g2...ml#post4166414
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post #6 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 08:02 AM
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for gaming, I'd go LCD but I hear Panny has the least amount of IR. I don't recommend the LG. My plasma has awful IR even in short gagming.
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post #7 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input Goatse. Do you prefer LCD simply because it doesn't have the IR problems that can be associated with plasmas? I've always been a big LCD fan but my new Samsung has made me reconsider my position due to the input lag.
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post #8 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 08:09 AM
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I would also recommend the Panasonic G20.

My G10 had zero image retention even when paused for long periods of time.

My current TV(Samsung) has crazy image retention.

I really like my Samsung but, if I were a "gamer", I would go with the Panasonic.
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post #9 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks THE_DEAN_001. The G20 is definitely the most appealing to me right now. I've heard the G10 was excellent for gaming so I would expect the G20 to be pretty good as well.
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post #10 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 08:53 AM
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pretty much. I never owned a panny but i hear they are better about IR but no plasma is immune. If you do alot of gaming, go LCD. I regret my plasma purchase, underestimated how bad and long IR lingers.
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post #11 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

pretty much. I never owned a panny but i hear they are better about IR but no plasma is immune. If you do alot of gaming, go LCD. I regret my plasma purchase, underestimated how bad and long IR lingers.

Hmm I'm not sure what qualifies as a lot of gaming. I would say I do at most 4 hours a day and at most 15 hours a week.
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post #12 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 09:13 AM
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I recently had to bring back my G20 due to a bad power supply, had it not gone out, I would have kept it for a long time. The IR wasn't bad at all on it, I played many of hours with it and don't ever remember saying damn I gotta do some slides now... When I traded it in I went for a Samsung, just to see the difference, I personally like the picture quality more with the samsung, but the IR is pretty bad. My top recommendation would def be those 2 though. I would go with the g25, or higher for panasonic, or the c700 or 800 for the samsung, but those will be more expensive. I can't really say much about the input lag though as I have never really noticed it, or tried to look for it, I'm not big on online gaming so it wouldn't really be an issue for me... either that or both the plasmas I have owned never really had any...
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post #13 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 09:14 AM
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LG plasma has high input lag, so count it out regardless of IR issues.

Use my plasma almost exclusively for gaming, no IR, no complaints - Panasonic VT25.

Would recommend any Panny plasma for gaming.
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post #14 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korvas View Post

I recently had to bring back my G20 due to a bad power supply, had it not gone out, I would have kept it for a long time. The IR wasn't bad at all on it, I played many of hours with it and don't ever remember saying damn I gotta do some slides now... When I traded it in I went for a Samsung, just to see the difference, I personally like the picture quality more with the samsung, but the IR is pretty bad. My top recommendation would def be those 2 though. I would go with the g25, or higher for panasonic, or the c700 or 800 for the samsung, but those will be more expensive. I can't really say much about the input lag though as I have never really noticed it, or tried to look for it, I'm not big on online gaming so it wouldn't really be an issue for me... either that or both the plasmas I have owned never really had any...

Thanks Korvas. That's too bad about your power supply, very unfortunate. I will have to look into the Samsung although they seem to be known for having pretty bad input lag (the LCD's anyway).
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post #15 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StainedGlass View Post

LG plasma has high input lag, so count it out regardless of IR issues.

Use my plasma almost exclusively for gaming, no IR, no complaints - Panasonic VT25.

Would recommend any Panny plasma for gaming.

Awesome, thanks for the advice. I'm glad to hear that the IR isn't as big of an issue as people sometimes make it out to be. I play a lot of different games and watch TV once in awhile also so I don't think it would be an issue for me.
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post #16 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 10:33 AM
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even an hour of gaming would give me good 2-3 hour of IR of the HUD. input lag hasn't been an issue with me on the LG. Like I said I hear Panny is better but also equivalent panny is about 800bux more.
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post #17 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 11:09 AM
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I used PC Mode with my Sammy LNA650 to avoid input lag. Don't perceive any with my Panny VT25, use Custom Mode for all content including gaming. I do get IR though, don't assume it won't happen. But IR removal is fairly easy now that I've had my TV since June, usually goes away after a half hour of watching non-static content.
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post #18 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 11:38 AM
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i have the 50s2 and it is a great gaming tv. low input lag and i have zero ir no matter how long i play games. i am always skeptical when ppl say they have ir with the s2's because i never get ir. the longest gaming session i had was for 8 hrs with black ops and yet zero ir. panasonic is a great gaming tv.
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post #19 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srixon View Post

i have the 50s2 and it is a great gaming tv. low input lag and i have zero ir no matter how long i play games. i am always skeptical when ppl say they have ir with the s2's because i never get ir. the longest gaming session i had was for 8 hrs with black ops and yet zero ir. panasonic is a great gaming tv.

Thanks for the advice srixon. The s2 is another model I'm considering. When you say it has low input lag do you mean low as in you notice but it doesn't bother you or low as in unnoticeable? The reason I ask is because I can't stand the feeling of input lag even if it is low, I need it low enough that I can't tell it's there.
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post #20 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 01:31 PM
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Plasmas may very well have the best input lag. I have a panasonic s1 I game on, and its fine and everything, but I think that when it comes to gaming, LED lcds blow plasmas away VISUALLY. The samsungs look great to me, they make a great LED lcd. Lag is a different story.
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post #21 of 98 Old 12-01-2010, 01:56 PM
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input lag has nothing to do with the display technology.
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post #22 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

Plasmas may very well have the best input lag. I have a panasonic s1 I game on, and its fine and everything, but I think that when it comes to gaming, LED lcds blow plasmas away VISUALLY. The samsungs look great to me, they make a great LED lcd. Lag is a different story.

Thats interesting, I've never heard anyone say that LED's are that much better picture wise than plasmas when it comes to gaming. Is there any reason you feel like you can make such a general statement? Or are you just saying the best LED's will blow away the best plasmas?

Either way, input lag is probably a bigger deal to me. As long as the PQ is still pretty exceptional I can deal with knowing that an LED may be at a slight advantage.
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post #23 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

input lag has nothing to do with the display technology.

Input lag is mostly related to the amount of processing the TV puts the image through before outputting it on the display, right? So I guess the reason LCD's are more commonly associated with more input lag is because of the extra processes they have to execute in order to generate faux 120 hz and 240 hz images?
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post #24 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Darkest_Red View Post

Thats interesting, I've never heard anyone say that LED's are that much better picture wise than plasmas when it comes to gaming. Is there any reason you feel like you can make such a general statement? Or are you just saying the best LED's will blow away the best plasmas?

Either way, input lag is probably a bigger deal to me. As long as the PQ is still pretty exceptional I can deal with knowing that an LED may be at a slight advantage.

Plasma should best LCD when it comes to PQ. There is a reason why new LCD's are moving towards glossy LED, trying to mimic the plasma picture. The advantage of LCD for gaming or use as a PC monitor is that there is absolutely no worry of IR. But the disadvantage of LCD for gaming is input lag which often forces one to use a Game Mode and make sacrifices in PQ, but this varies by set with some allowing Game Mode to produce a pleasing picture.

I think you are better off assuming that you will have to deal with IR if you go plasma for a gaming TV. If you think IR won't happen I think you'll find yourself unpleasantly surprised when it does occur.
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post #25 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 12:11 PM
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I recently bought a g25 for a spare bedroom and after doing the 100 hour break in ive gamed on it plenty. I have tried the ps3 and the wii on it. I compared it to my hd rpcrt after i noticed that i was not feeling any input lag.

I have to say that the panel is pretty fast if i switch from the panny to the crt the crt does feel slightly more responsive but the g25 is really nice for gaming. I played games im familiar with and have tight gameplay ex mega man 10. No issues at all regarding input lag. Even with 480i the input lag is almost non existent. I honestly dont believe you will feel it unless directly comparing to crt afterwards.

As far as image retention i havent had any besides when i play wii in 4x3 mode if i run the build in slide I can see faint lines between the aspect ratios.
Phosphor lag or ghosting is evident on the display its about equal to my true 120hz samsung 2233rz computer monitor. Its still alot better then the other two 60hz lcds in the house though.

Overall i definately think you will be happy with this tv for gaming.
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post #26 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton View Post

Plasma should best LCD when it comes to PQ. There is a reason why new LCD's are moving towards glossy LED, trying to mimic the plasma picture. The advantage of LCD for gaming or use as a PC monitor is that there is absolutely no worry of IR. But the disadvantage of LCD for gaming is input lag which often forces one to use a Game Mode and make sacrifices in PQ, but this varies by set with some allowing Game Mode to produce a pleasing picture.

I think you are better off assuming that you will have to deal with IR if you go plasma for a gaming TV. If you think IR won't happen I think you'll find yourself unpleasantly surprised when it does occur.

Thanks for the input Dayton. Do you really think IR will be an issue with a Panasonic G20/25? I tend to mix up games when I'm gaming, I rarely ever play the same one for more than 2-3 hours.

Regardless, it will definitely be something I'm cautious about. I tend to treat my electronics with special care. I'll look into how exactly I should go about taking care of it if I manage to pick one up sometime soon.
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post #27 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micl0ud View Post

I recently bought a g25 for a spare bedroom and after doing the 100 hour break in ive gamed on it plenty. I have tried the ps3 and the wii on it. I compared it to my hd rpcrt after i noticed that i was not feeling any input lag.

I have to say that the panel is pretty fast if i switch from the panny to the crt the crt does feel slightly more responsive but the g25 is really nice for gaming. I played games im familiar with and have tight gameplay ex mega man 10. No issues at all regarding input lag. Even with 480i the input lag is almost non existent. I honestly dont believe you will feel it unless directly comparing to crt afterwards.

As far as image retention i havent had any besides when i play wii in 4x3 mode if i run the build in slide I can see faint lines between the aspect ratios.
Phosphor lag or ghosting is evident on the display its about equal to my true 120hz samsung 2233rz computer monitor. Its still alot better then the other two 60hz lcds in the house though.

Overall i definately think you will be happy with this tv for gaming.

Thanks man, very helpful post with a lot of information. I appreciate it!

It's good to hear from someone first hand that the lag is almost unnoticeable when going from a G25 to a CRT. I don't think I will notice it at all because I've been gaming on a 32" Phillips LCD and a 40" Sony Bravia LCD for the past 3 years and I've never noticed input lag with either of them. The Samsung I just bought is the first TV I've ever used where I've noticed input lag, even in game mode. It's a shame too because the Samsung is amazing in all other regards (at least in my opinion) and the design is super sleek and sexy. It's just not worth the curse of the input lag I'm afraid.
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post #28 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Darkest_Red View Post

Thats interesting, I've never heard anyone say that LED's are that much better picture wise than plasmas when it comes to gaming. Is there any reason you feel like you can make such a general statement? Or are you just saying the best LED's will blow away the best plasmas?

Either way, input lag is probably a bigger deal to me. As long as the PQ is still pretty exceptional I can deal with knowing that an LED may be at a slight advantage.

Well,

I guess that statement is pretty general.

my experience IS in fact brand limited, so I am being a tad unfair. I have gamed on 3 panasonic plasmas that i own. The most recent set is still my main gaming set, as I mentioned in the original statement.

I suppose what impresses me most about the better LED sets is there ability to produce great light output. A better model LED with good blacks and great light output produces the most impressive looking pictures with video games IMO. Full detail and lots of light output is what I am prefering these days.

My biggest complaint with my Panasonic plasmas is the limited light output. I hear the S2 is brighter then my S1, but I set one up for a family member and couldn't notice the difference.

Other then that I love the plasma, games look great. I still think the light output is king with games though.


I think your in a good spot with the UN46C6300SF, but if input lag is your #1 priority, then I guess you have to move on.
It's just my opinion and preference, not fact.
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post #29 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 01:04 PM
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I've been gaming pretty intensely on a vt25 for the past 2-3 months. I see IR here and there (played NFS:HP and the white speedometer left IR after playing for 7 straight hours) but it has gone away within an hour of switching the tv to full screen cable content (without any static logos of course).

This is the first plasma I've gamed on and it's been fantastic. Everything from fast paced FPS'es to racing games to rhythm games to fighters are fantastic and show little to no lag.
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post #30 of 98 Old 12-02-2010, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

Well,

I guess that statement is pretty general.

my experience IS in fact brand limited, so I am being a tad unfair. I have gamed on 3 panasonic plasmas that i own. The most recent set is still my main gaming set, as I mentioned in the original statement. I have a cheaper, non-aquos Sharp LCD as well, but the Pannys blow it out of the water.

I have toyed around with games on various new LED panels. It's just my opinion, but if you get a good LED set, you shouldn't have to worry about the problems that cheaper sets have, like screen uniformity, bad black levels or slow refresh rates that leads to motion blur. Alot of these sets have pretty impressive blacks now, great colors, great depth of field to the image, and above all else, incredible light output.

I suppose what impresses me most about the better LED sets is there ability to produce great light output while maintaining full detail. Thats the big reason why I would prefer them for gaming this day and age. It just brings the image to life. I am talking about light output, and just because an image is bright doesn't mean its going to be blown out, or clipping white, it simply means the image is brighter. Thats extremely important to bring out the punch in video games, IMO. I am not brand or technology bias in any way. I have only owned Panasonic plasmas because the deal has always seemed right on them when it came time to buy. Bang for Buck factor.

The biggest turn off with my plasmas is there on the dull side, and quite dark when playing video games, even with aggressive settings. I don't always want to play video games in the dark.

From what I understand, my input lag numbers with the TC-P50S1 plasma are pretty good. But in all honesty, I have never noticed input lag on any tv technology. Perhaps I havn't played on a bad tv yet, but i have played on various brands and technologies at peoples houses, and never once noticed a thing. With online FPS games...you should be more concerned about server latency or host advantage anyway.

I think your in a good spot with the UN46C6300SF, but if input lag is your #1 priority, then I guess you have to move on.
It's just my opinion and preference, not fact.

Thanks for the response. I'm really interested to see how the PQ of a G20 compares to the Samsung LED I have now, hopefully it won't look worse but judging by what you're saying it definitely seems like a possibility.

Honestly I never would have thought that input lag was a big deal but trust me, it is VERY annoying when you notice it. I understand that there are other inherent issues with online FPS gaming (such as the host advantage and server latency you mentioned) but they are issues you can't really help unless you get a faster internet connection.

With input lag the big problem is that you can FEEL the issue and SEE its impacts much more easily than you can with host advantage. Just imagine going to line up a headshot and feeling like your reticule is "floating" past the target. Even when it's not significant it can be quite annoying. In game mode the games are not necessarily unplayable but there is just a constant voice in my head reminding me that my motions are not as fluid as they could be (or used to be).

Anyway, what type of plasmas do you have? Any 2010 models?
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