S1 vs. S2 vs. G25 vs. $$$ - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I know this has been asked before and I've gone through many posts but still had a few question. About me, this will be my first plasma purchase; I've been an LCD guy and only recently my eyes have been opened (literally).

Anyway, due to money limitations I am considering either the P58S2 or the P54G25 ; rough prices. I've seen a P58S1 in a bar I go to for football and was blown away at the picture quality, the room even had a lot of light (TV was 90 degrees to windows). The S1 didn't have any glare and I thought the PQ was great. I am assuming the S2 will be even better since it has the NeoPDP. So my question is: is the loss of 4" in picture size worth the extra quality of the G25? I mainly watch movies and play PS3, I don't care what TV looks like since football is broadcast in HD (in my world that is all that counts for TV PQ). I also don't care about internet apps since I have a PS3. The TV will be in a room with a fair amount of sunlight (non-direct and 90 degrees to the large windows, similar to bar TV placement).
Also, is the THX mode worth the loss of 4" in size? And does the THX mode show movies in a dark/dim manner. My LCD became very dim when in movie mode (non-THX). My LCD was 52" so the G25 would still be bigger.

I will purchase this in January sometime and I just wanted to get your final thoughts. Lastly, do TV prices drop after Christmas?

Thank you and sorry for the long post.
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post #2 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 04:00 AM
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I feel the G25 produces a much better picture and is close to the top in picture quality at a decent price. I've also heard that the S1 actually had a better picture than the S2 and there is a big difference between the S2 and G25 in picture quality. So I would definitely go for the G25 as I did. And THX Mode is great as well as Custom and Game Mode. All good for different reasons.
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post #3 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 06:20 AM
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I'll take the 4 extra inches. Look also at the LG 60pk550, it's a nice one in your price range. People complain about the glare on LG, but is better in a bright room than my old WS65513 rear projection set.
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post #4 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 08:51 AM
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The S1 also has a NeoPDP too by the way.

Anyways I'd take the bigger S2, but the G25 has a better reflection filter from what I heard.
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post #5 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 09:02 AM
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I had the 58s2 for a few days and it had a very grainy picture. When I went back to BB, I noticed that it showed a lot more graininess than nearly every tv surrounding it on the wall. Blacks however were excellent, much better than I expected from a TV of its price. I would consider just spending the extra dough on the g25, since it's not too much more and I hear it's quite close to the quality of the top of the line vt25. You will be missing a bit on the screen size, but the graininess really bothered me enough that I would sacrifice the extra size.
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post #6 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 09:02 AM
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I am looking at same thing, leaning toward 58". Price went back up on these sets though with 149.00 shipping on Amazon.

15% more screen real estate on 58" compared to 54".

http://www.displaywars.com/54-inch-16x9-vs-58-inch-16x9
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post #7 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 09:16 AM
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What about the S2 vs the G25 for the same screen size?

For someone like me who mainly watches sports, Discovery HD, etc, with a lot of SD watching by the kids and very little movie watching, will the increase in PQ of the G25 be worth the extra coin vs the S2 (looking at 46" units BTW).
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post #8 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 10:32 AM
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Are the S2 sets really that bad? I'm looking to go for a big screen this time around, but the options are pretty slim once you go to 60" and above. The opinions on the S2 models seem pretty mixed, but the 65VT25 is way out of my price range. I was also looking at the Sammy 63C550, but the input lag is apparently atrocious, and along with some other caveats, that pretty much leaves me with the 65S2. If the G25 came in any size larger than 54", I think my choice would be obvious, but as it stands, giving up 11" for better features is a tough pill to swallow. I suppose that I could wait for the 2011 models to show up, but my old DLP really needs to be put out to pasture, so I was hoping to purchase within the next few weeks.
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post #9 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco County View Post

Are the S2 sets really that bad? I'm looking to go for a big screen this time around, but the options are pretty slim once you go to 60" and above. The opinions on the S2 models seem pretty mixed.....

It's not that the S2 is "that bad", rather the G25 and VT25 are "that much better". The S2 is a admittedly a lower-end model, and the jump in overall picture quality and performance between an S2 and a G25 is WAY bigger than the jump from a G25 to a VT25 (which is only slight for regular 2D content).


Quote:


I was also looking at the Sammy 63C550, but the input lag is apparently atrocious, and along with some other caveats, that pretty much leaves me with the 65S2. If the G25 came in any size larger than 54", I think my choice would be obvious, but as it stands, giving up 11" for better features is a tough pill to swallow.

It's extremely unfortunate that Panasonic does not offer the G25 in 58" and 65" as it leaves a huge hole that is begging to be filled. Just based on other threads and discussions like this here over the past 5 years, i think there would be a good market for a mid-priced 58"-65" big screen for those who want much better than lower end performance 2D set but don't want to pay a substantial premium for the top-of-the-line 3D model to get it. If i were in charge, the S2 would have been capped out at 54 inches and make the G25 into the 2D alternative to the VT series by offering it in the 58" and 65" sizes.


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I suppose that I could wait for the 2011 models to show up, but my old DLP really needs to be put out to pasture, so I was hoping to purchase within the next few weeks.

I imagine the 65S2 would still be a huge improvement over your DLP no?

There is some talk here that in 2011 Panasonic may be releasing their 58" and 65" models in the springtime instead of their usual late summer release dates and if that's true, then the 65S2 may get scarce before Panasonic makes it's usual January press release about the new model lineup where they outline what they'll be offering. Right now nobody really knows what kind of model lineup is planned for 2011. For all we know, they may get a clue and start capping the S3 out at 54 inches, then offer the G35 in the 58"-65" range, or consolidate their model lineup from the current 6 or so series to only 3 and offer the big sizes in all of them to compete with Samsung.

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post #10 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UWGRAD View Post

Hello,

I know this has been asked before and I've gone through many posts but still had a few question. About me, this will be my first plasma purchase; I've been an LCD guy and only recently my eyes have been opened (literally).

Anyway, due to money limitations I am considering either the P58S2 ($1,100) or the P54G25 ($1,350); rough prices. I've seen a P58S1 in a bar I go to for football and was blown away at the picture quality, the room even had a lot of light (TV was 90 degrees to windows). The S1 didn't have any glare and I thought the PQ was great. I am assuming the S2 will be even better since it has the NeoPDP. So my question is: is the loss of 4" in picture size worth the extra quality of the G25? I mainly watch movies and play PS3, I don't care what TV looks like since football is broadcast in HD (in my world that is all that counts for TV PQ). I also don't care about internet apps since I have a PS3. The TV will be in a room with a fair amount of sunlight (non-direct and 90 degrees to the large windows, similar to bar TV placement).
Also, is the THX mode worth the loss of 4" in size? And does the THX mode show movies in a dark/dim manner. My LCD became very dim when in movie mode (non-THX). My LCD was 52" so the G25 would still be bigger.

I will purchase this in January sometime and I just wanted to get your final thoughts. Lastly, do TV prices drop after Christmas?

Thank you and sorry for the long post.

Just about everything everyone has written in the above posts is accurate information, which in itself is a little unusal. It really comes down to you, if you really think the bigger the better I would go with the biggest you can afford. As far as picture quality it also comes down to your past experience with tvs. If your like randy walters who knows the best picture quality and will not be happy with a little less picture you definetly want to sacrifice size for a better picture. But from what I read about you you wont miss a little better picture cause your fram of reference, from past viewing experinces, is from a novices just like my own. I have a panasonic 42 x1, and it is one of panasonics lower price sets, and Im happy. Could I be happier yes but Im satisfied. Like the one post says above I would look at the lg550 if you dont have a bright room.
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post #11 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

S2 stuff.

Thanks for the reply. There's no doubt that the S2 would be a big step up for me, but unless there's an irresistible sale price on the 65S2 in the next couple of weeks, I think I'll hold out and see if Panasonic does indeed introduce some mid-tier sets at the 58" or 65" sizes. I don't buy new large sets very often, so I can wait a few months if there ends up being some higher-quality options to choose from.
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post #12 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 12:30 PM
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I bought the 65s2 and couldn't be happier. I looked at the VT25 but couldn't justify the price difference because I really didn't think the picture was much better. This TV replaced my Sony 60" SXRD and so far the picture is superior to the SXRD.
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post #13 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mliebs8 View Post

I bought the 65s2 and couldn't be happier. I looked at the VT25 but couldn't justify the price difference because I really didn't think the picture was much better. This TV replaced my Sony 60" SXRD and so far the picture is superior to the SXRD.

I've seen a handful of comments about grainy picture on the S2's, but they're sporadic enough that it makes me think that those users had defective sets. If Panasonic doesn't announce a 58G35 in a couple of weeks, I think the 65S2 is gonna be my new set.
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post #14 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Brisco County View Post

I've seen a handful of comments about grainy picture on the S2's, but they're sporadic enough that it makes me think that those users had defective sets. If Panasonic doesn't announce a 58G35 in a couple of weeks, I think the 65S2 is gonna be my new set.

It could be due to defective sets but I haven't seen similar complaints for the G series or any Samsung or LG plasmas. Go and demo it yourself. Put on a dvd with an average amount of grain and see whether you can deal with the output. Animated movies or crystal clean sources won't have any grain issues so don't bother with those.
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post #15 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you to everyone for your input, I greatly appreciate it. I think I might lean towards the G25 and get a huge screen in the future. I am a college student with some extra cash so I will wait for a big picture with a clean picture when I have real money some day. Thinking back at my LCD TV, any type of graininess or glitch (I think they call it "judder") drives me nuts and I would prefer the better contrast.

Also, do prices usually drop after Christmas?

Thank you.
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post #16 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 03:50 PM
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I have a 58S1 for a little over a year now, and I couldn't be happier.
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post #17 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neoshredder27 View Post

... And THX Mode is great as well as Custom and Game Mode. All good for different reasons.

Can you tell me more about these two modes as far as PQ? Do they become dim or dark? My LCD became dim once I put it into movie mode (non-THX) and the same occurred for game mode. I can handle a little dimming but I don't want the colors to crap out.
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post #18 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillMan17 View Post

I have a 58S1 for a little over a year now, and I couldn't be happier.

Well actually you could've, but it would have cost you a lot more

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post #19 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UWGRAD View Post

Can you tell me more about these two modes as far as PQ? Do they become dim or dark? My LCD became dim once I put it into movie mode (non-THX) and the same occurred for game mode. I can handle a little dimming but I don't want the colors to crap out.

Standard Mode is the only real dim mode. Custom and Game are brighter than THX. Game Mode has the flashy colors that are good for video games, sports, cartoons, and stuff like that. Custom is like a brighter version of THX.
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post #20 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neoshredder27 View Post

...Custom is like a brighter version of THX.

Is THX worth it? I've never had a TV with it. It seems if it is the same/similar to Custom then I should just get the S2 and save money. How close can an S2 come to G25 once professionally calibrated?
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post #21 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by UWGRAD View Post

Is THX worth it? I've never had a TV with it. It seems if it is the same/similar to Custom then I should just get the S2 and save money. How close can an S2 come to G25 once professionally calibrated?

I think THX looks better. I don't use Custom so maybe I wasn't totally accurate by saying Custom is like THX but brighter. I think it sacrifices PQ by making it brighter. But many do like Custom. S2's Custom might not be exactly the same as the G25 either. Blacks are slightly better on the G25. I would assume that would apply to all the modes. Btw I like Warm 1 much better than Warm 2. I don't know why they use Warm 2 as the setting for THX. Oh yeah and way better AR Filter and 1 less piece of glass to avoid distortion that the S2 supposedly has issues with.
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post #22 of 51 Old 12-18-2010, 11:43 PM
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You may want to remove the prices from your OP. I started a similar thread a few days ago and it was removed and I received a warning for posting "non-MSRP prices." I definitely do not see the harm in it but apparently some mods for this forum like to show how big their e-peens are.

On a side note, I am still considering the G25 as well. I have read that this Panasonic cannot properly process 1080p/24 material. Would this effect games on PS3 or only blu-rays? What type of problems does it cause?
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post #23 of 51 Old 12-19-2010, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by icyfire22 View Post

It could be due to defective sets but I haven't seen similar complaints for the G series or any Samsung or LG plasmas. Go and demo it yourself. Put on a dvd with an average amount of grain and see whether you can deal with the output. Animated movies or crystal clean sources won't have any grain issues so don't bother with those.

So, the graininess would be a result of the source content, then? This set will be used probably 75% for HD gaming, and the rest of the time for new-release DVD and Blu-ray movies, so I'm not sure I would even come across it. And, I unfortunately live in a podunk town with one Best Buy, and not much else, so I'm not sure if I would even be able to do much demoing, anyway.

Also, regarding the game mode discussion: Is it true that the Panasonic sets don't need to be played in game mode at all in order to maintain low input lag? The Samsung equivalent to the S2 apparently has the sweet spot of 1-2 frames of lag in game mode, but that mode is said to absolutely gut the picture quality. Even worse, lag in other modes is supposedly well over 100ms, which is right out. Being able to play twitch games in any picture mode on the Panny would be huge bonus for me.
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post #24 of 51 Old 12-19-2010, 10:58 AM
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You may want to remove the prices from your OP. I started a similar thread a few days ago and it was removed and I received a warning for posting "non-MSRP prices." I definitely do not see the harm in it but apparently some mods for this forum like to show how big their e-peens are.

It's not about that. AVS is here only for technical discussions, not price discussions. The mods, administrators, and the owners of AVS have very good reasons why Price Talk isn't allowed and 99% of us here wholeheartedly agree. The forum rules, which you and i agreed to when we registered here, prohibit price talk. The mods here are actually pretty cool and give us a lot of leeway if we discuss the technological merits of a particular TV vs others as long as the thread doesn't turn into a pricing thread.

Price threads such as yours clog the forum and are off topic. If you want to talk about pricing, there are other AV forums like Highdefforum that do allow it.

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post #25 of 51 Old 12-19-2010, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nadroj1485 View Post

You may want to remove the prices from your OP. I started a similar thread a few days ago and it was removed and I received a warning for posting "non-MSRP prices." I definitely do not see the harm in it but apparently some mods for this forum like to show how big their e-peens are.

On a side note, I am still considering the G25 as well. I have read that this Panasonic cannot properly process 1080p/24 material. Would this effect games on PS3 or only blu-rays? What type of problems does it cause?

It processes it well enough imo. Not perfect but hardly noticeable. At least to my eyes. And PS3 doesn't do 1080p/24 for games.
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post #26 of 51 Old 12-19-2010, 04:46 PM
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Price threads such as yours clog the forum and are off topic. If you want to talk about pricing, there are other AV forums like Highdefforum that do allow it.

My thread was not about pricing, I was simply asking for recommendations (very similar to this thread.) I mentioned the prices at the end of my thread because I thought it would help aid those making the recommendations. I just wanted to warn the OP because my entire thread was removed (instead of simply deleting the line with the prices) and I think this one has some good information in it.
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post #27 of 51 Old 12-19-2010, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by neoshredder27 View Post

It processes it well enough imo. Not perfect but hardly noticeable. At least to my eyes. And PS3 doesn't do 1080p/24 for games.

Do LCD's suffer from the same problem? I have a 32" Samsung LCD (720P 60Hz) and I have not noticed any significant problems with BD, however I have only watched a few on it since I purchased this TV.
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post #28 of 51 Old 01-03-2011, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello again,

As the time is drawing near to purchase, I had a chance to view an S2 and G20 side by side at Sears. The lighting was OK. I put the S2 in cinema mode and the G20 in THX (both 50"). I really couldn't notice a huge difference. The G20 did have better contrast and the colors were more correct, but it seems that calibration could fix this on the S2. Also, the THX mode had an Olive color tone to it; just as I suspected before ever seeing THX.

Here is the story, I put the G20 in THX mode, then walked around. I came back and started the Blue-Ray player. When the movie started I was like "WOW", then I noticed someone changed it to custom; so I changed it back to THX and the Olive color tone appeared. I was disappointed.

So it seems that a "true movie" picture is dingy, if that is the case then I don't see the point in getting a G20 or G25.

Can someone clear this up. What is really so bad about the S2?

Thank you.
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post #29 of 51 Old 01-03-2011, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by UWGRAD View Post

Hello again,

As the time is drawing near to purchase, I had a chance to view an S2 and G20 side by side at Sears. The lighting was OK. I put the S2 in cinema mode and the G20 in THX (both 50"). I really couldn't notice a huge difference. The G20 did have better contrast and the colors were more correct, but it seems that calibration could fix this on the S2. Also, the THX mode had an Olive color tone to it; just as I suspected before ever seeing THX.

Here is the story, I put the G20 in THX mode, then walked around. I came back and started the Blue-Ray player. When the movie started I was like "WOW", then I noticed someone changed it to custom; so I changed it back to THX and the Olive color tone appeared. I was disappointed.

So it seems that a "true movie" picture is dingy, if that is the case then I don't see the point in getting a G20 or G25.

Can someone clear this up. What is really so bad about the S2?

Thank you.

Nothing. Maybe you won't notice the deep blacks in a lighted room at Sears. A darker room would be where the Cinema experience is most enjoyable similar to the movie theaters. If you can't tell the difference, maybe the S2 is better for you. But I think the G25 looks a little better. But if you are willing to calibrate it, maybe you can get a similar picture to the G25.
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post #30 of 51 Old 01-03-2011, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neoshredder27 View Post

Nothing. Maybe you won't notice the deep blacks in a lighted room at Sears. A darker room would be where the Cinema experience is most enjoyable similar to the movie theaters. If you can't tell the difference, maybe the S2 is better for you. But I think the G25 looks a little better. But if you are willing to calibrate it, maybe you can get a similar picture to the G25.

Thank you for your response. The lighting at Sears wasn't dim or dark, but it sure wasn't nearly as bright as the Best Buy "fake tanning while you shop" lights. I do agree the G series looked better but there wasn't a HUGE difference like other people seemed to notice. Maybe my eye sight is crap. The only TV that blew me away where I could definitely see a huge increase in PQ was the VT series.

I'll keep looking, I'm going to check out the TVs at American, they have dim lighting so the differences should be more prevalent.

Thank you.
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