Samsung 2011 Plasma Lineup - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3464 Old 01-07-2011, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by schalliol View Post

Very interesting. Maybe I did the math wrong, but the dimensions I chose were with 0.4" added to each vs what I calculated the sides of the panel to be. If I did the math correctly, these don't look like only 0.4" unless the panels are not exactly the size listed (i.e. my MacBook Pro is 15.4" though they call it a 15")

A 51" class TV can be anywhere from 50.5" to 51.4" diagonal. For reference, the PN50C8000 was 49.9", but we don't know tenths of inches for '11 plasmas yet; by then, we'll know the overall dimensions, anyway.
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post #92 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 12:00 AM
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So, no info. on the '5' and '4' Series? (sizes, styles, slimness (only care if makes it weight less), lack of buzzing (like the 6,7,8 Series, supposedly))

I am wondering if the 43" will only be in 4 Series again, at 1024x768p; or if they also have a 5 Series at 1920x1080p, like they were supposed to last year. I'm thinking just 4 Series again.
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post #93 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyser View Post

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1294222203

Anyone see this FULL HD 3D passive technology at CES?

It's an elegant idea...two 1080p panels actively shuttering in front of a polarizing filter with cheap passive glassses. Unfortunately, the tech is pricy and intended for medical displays, not the consumer market . This article had all the details.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Sa...ee-3D-TV.shtml
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post #94 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

So, no info. on the '5' and '4' Series? (sizes, styles, slimness (only care if makes it weight less), lack of buzzing (like the 6,7,8 Series, supposedly))

I am wondering if the 43" will only be in 4 Series again, at 1024x768p; or if they also have a 5 Series at 1920x1080p, like they were supposed to last year. I'm thinking just 4 Series again.

http://ces.cnet.com/4326-32497_1-100...tag=mncol;page

That Cnet link to images a few posts back had the D680 (with touch of blue and claw stand) and the D490/450 images, no D550 images at all, which is what I want info on. Will the D550 models be as good as the C550 models were when compared to the higher tiers? (the 58 and 63inch C550 models had the same black levels as the same size C8000 models, I want to see if this gets repeated in 2011, if anyone at CES can answer this I would be very grateful)

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post #95 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I assume this means there will be an M-series thread in 2020.

Q: With your LCDs as good as they are, how long until Samsung stops making Plasmas?

Kevin Lee: Production costs for plasmas keep getting cheaper, letting us deliver more screen at a lower price. Because of this, we won’t be stopping plasma production any time soon. We see it going on for another ten years.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._CES_2011/6120
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post #96 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 12:44 AM
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thats what I expected. OLED will not be avaible in 50"+ for another 6-7 years. So, we have to stick with plasma, which is not a bad technologie, actually a real good tech. It just needs some company like pioneer, who were puching this tech to its limits...
I expect OLED to replace small LCD PC monitors within the next 5 years, nothing more. Its a hyped technologie, plasma can provide similar picture quality and thats at cheap production costs for 50"+ panels...
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post #97 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

I assume this means there will be an M-series thread in 2020.

Q: With your LCDs as good as they are, how long until Samsung stops making Plasmas?

Kevin Lee: Production costs for plasmas keep getting cheaper, letting us deliver more screen at a lower price. Because of this, we won't be stopping plasma production any time soon. We see it going on for another ten years.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._CES_2011/6120

Cool. So if they can keep halving the black level each year, by 2020 we'll be at 0.007 / 2^10 = 0.000007.
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post #98 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david437 View Post

0.004 only on the larg sized models or also on the 51" ? Because last year models dont have the same mll...

What source are you basing that on?

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post #99 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 07:46 PM
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I was thinking about picking up a C450, but that D450 sure looks sweet!
I hope they hold the price point...
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post #100 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew View Post

What source are you basing that on?

It's been well documented on AVS, that the 50" Samsung had a somewhat higher (worse) MLL on average than the 58" and 63" Samsungs.

My research calculates to ~.002-.003 fL higher MLL. Too much info., over many months, to go through it again. Maybe someone else has some links saved.
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post #101 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

It's been well documented on AVS, that the 50" Samsung had a somewhat higher (worse) MLL on average than the 58" and 63" Samsungs.

My research calculates to ~.002-.003 fL higher MLL. Too much info., over many months, to go through it again. Maybe someone else has some links saved.

Everything I've seen shows the larger models with the better black levels had a different firmware than the 50 inch versions, and later reviews of the 50 inch with later firmware show black levels on par with the larger sets.

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post #102 of 3464 Old 01-08-2011, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by theanimala View Post

True, but the new sets will sell much closer to their msrp's vs the older sets. I too wanted to wait but today I bought a 63c8000 for $2429 with the blu-ray player and 3d kit. I would love the new d series but I doubt I will get a price like that for at least another 6 months, and I've waited long enough. I am sick of my 7 year old 47" CRT rptv...

I am in a similar situation. That is a killer price mind if I ask where you were able to score that?
Black levels are always the holy grail, but I rarely completely turn the lights out, so it may not be that big a deal for me. The Cinema Smooth might be an issue (but you can always turn it off... and use the 3:2 pull down).. hard to say if you'd notice the difference. The buzzing sounds likes it is hit or miss. The blinking could be really annoying is they can't get that under control. If they did truly fix these problems in the 2011 models, the extra inch wouldn't be bad ... decisions, decisions.
I doubt you'll see a price anywhere near that ($2500) for like another year, when the 2012 models are announced ... IHMO
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post #103 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 12:12 AM
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So for someone like me who wants a 42"-46" what are the prices of these new Plasma's likely to be do you think? NOt interested in all the super duper gizmos, just as good a picture as possible as a reasonable price?

Do you think we're talking under $1000/£1000 for a 42-46" D7000 for example? But it's beginning to look like Samsung don't do (good) Plasma's this small, so they're not a choice for me...
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post #104 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by koffas View Post

Assuming the subfield refresh rate is the same for 60 and 50 Hz sources (so either 10 or 12 subfields/frame @ 600 Hz), I still can't grasp why there is an MLL difference. Unless something funky is being done with how those subfields are weighted/compiled, they're still being pulsed at the same frequency.

When you feed the screen a 60Hz signal it displays it at 60Hz. When using 50Hz the screen converts it to 100Hz.
The theory is that 24Hz, 30Hz and 60Hz is displayed at 60Hz and 25Hz, 50Hz is displayed at 100Hz (which results in the brighter black level). 24Hz with Cinema Smooth is displayed at 96Hz (with the brighter black level).

http://dennisthomsen.dk/2010/08/sams...cinema-smooth/
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post #105 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 11:33 AM
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Just bought a PN63C8000 at a good price with the 3d glasses/bluray bundle. It won't be shipped for at least another week. I'm wondering if I should cancel the order and wait for the PN64D8000.

Any idea on MSRP of the PN64D8000 vs. PN63C8000? When do we typically see the new model year on store shelves?

Is the touch remote backwards compatible? I understand you can watch a live source on the remote, correct?

Finally, I wonder if the thinner/lighter 3D glasses w/bluetooth and IR are compatible....
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post #106 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oktane View Post

Just bought a PN63C8000 at a good price with the 3d glasses/bluray bundle. It won't be shipped for at least another week. I'm wondering if I should cancel the order and wait for the PN64D8000.

Any idea on MSRP of the PN64D8000 vs. PN63C8000? When do we typically see the new model year on store shelves?

Is the touch remote backwards compatible? I understand you can watch a live source on the remote, correct?

Finally, I wonder if the thinner/lighter 3D glasses w/bluetooth and IR are compatible....

Mind asking what you paid? I was going to wait but loved th pricing i got on the 63c8000. Mine too won't come until next week. If yours is better perhaps i can make them meet the price. FYI, I paid $2429 with bundle, I bet the new d series comes in $1000 more.
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post #107 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

I think the silver bezel and crows feet stand are horrible. But everone has their own likes and dislikes. The 6500 looks nicer, although is that a shiny silver item in the bezel edge? Panny did the same in the VT35. Can one of these damn manufacturer's not make a plain thin matte black bezel?

+1
All these hi def tv engineers need to do is take a look at these forums to see what people really want to make an awesome set! The bird foot on the 8k is gawdy along with the silver,but the mll numbers,if true, sound good. The 6.5k looks better.I wonder what the advertised mll for this will be.
I may have to get out my rosary and pray Pioneer makes a comeback when the
economy improves(in about 10 years).
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post #108 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 12:32 PM
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Well if you care enuff about design to complain about the foot, you should also care enuff to realize this tv belongs hanging on your wall, and that the ugly stand really pose no problem.
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post #109 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew View Post

Everything I've seen shows the larger models with the better black levels had a different firmware than the 50 inch versions, and later reviews of the 50 inch with later firmware show black levels on par with the larger sets.

The only f/w upgrade known to improve black levels on the 2010 sets was 1017. CNET's testing occured late in the game... their 50" C7000 was on 1024 f/w and their 50" C8000 was on 1026 f/w.

I compiled all the data here...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19315821

The only question is how much higher the MLL is on the 50" sets. D-Nice has measured a small (0.002 fL) increase relative to the 58/63" panels. For some reason, CNET's 50" MLL is much worse off -- and it's not owing to Cinema Smooth.
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post #110 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolatc View Post

When you feed the screen a 60Hz signal it displays it at 60Hz. When using 50Hz the screen converts it to 100Hz.
The theory is that 24Hz, 30Hz and 60Hz is displayed at 60Hz and 25Hz, 50Hz is displayed at 100Hz (which results in the brighter black level). 24Hz with Cinema Smooth is displayed at 96Hz (with the brighter black level).

http://dennisthomsen.dk/2010/08/sams...cinema-smooth/

Yeah, I've read his blog but my understanding (much of it thanks to xrox's posts) is that the MLL is tied to the subfield initialization steps. Please feel free to correct any of my thinking.

For a given PDP cell, the black level you see is the end result of integrating over the initialization periods of all the subfields that compose a frame. I.e., it's not a direct function of the frame refresh rate. Each individual cell is initalized and reset 600 times/sec. So at a 600 Hz subfield drive, we know there are 10 subfields in a single 60 Hz frame. The marketing litarature on the Samsung UK site states there are 12 subfields in each 50 Hz frame -- "Every frame is seamlessly smooth because we put 12 full subfields into each frame. That's 600Hz." So no 2:2 pulldown to 100 Hz.

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/t...ype=prd_detail

So perhaps the MLL difference is related to the additional subfields needed to compose a 50 Hz frame vs a 60 Hz frame?

Cinema Smooth has a frame refesh rate of 96 Hz (4:4 pulldown), which doesn't evenly divide into a 600 Hz subfield refresh. So unless Samsung is using a variable subfield drive or some sort of frame interpolation is occuring @ a fixed 600 Hz subfield drive, I don't know how many subfields are used to a compile each 96 Hz frame.
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post #111 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

If I were you I would return it. You will get twice as deep blacks, possibly buzzing fixed, cinema smooth has been fixed, smaller bezels. Massive improvements.

Just returned it. Kept the C6900 Blu Ray player for the $163 bundle price. When do you guys think the PN51D8000 will hit stores?
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post #112 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 03:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pato79 View Post

Just returned it. Kept the C6900 Blu Ray player for the $163 bundle price. When do you guys think the PN51D8000 will hit stores?

March if they hold their release traditions... 2 months!
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post #113 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 03:41 PM
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Same timeframe for the 64 incher?
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post #114 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oktane View Post

Just bought a PN63C8000 at a good price with the 3d glasses/bluray bundle. It won't be shipped for at least another week. I'm wondering if I should cancel the order and wait for the PN64D8000.

Any idea on MSRP of the PN64D8000 vs. PN63C8000? When do we typically see the new model year on store shelves?

Is the touch remote backwards compatible? I understand you can watch a live source on the remote, correct?

Finally, I wonder if the thinner/lighter 3D glasses w/bluetooth and IR are compatible....

Samsung has been saying they're keeping the prices (MSRP) the same this year. One extra inch for the same price.

From what I've read of the touchscreen remote, it can re-display the live source or another source not being displayed on the TV, sort of a PIP effect.

Has it been confirmed that the D-series plasmas are using bluetooth glasses? The specs only say "bluetooth" for the LED sets.
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post #115 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tsk23 View Post

Samsung has been saying they're keeping the prices (MSRP) the same this year.

I believe it when I see it. With commodities rising everywhere (checked the price of copper lately), something will have to give: either price or quality.

One thing for certain; expect few discounts on release. Like with everything else now you can get the best prices for last year gear.
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post #116 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimala View Post


Mind asking what you paid? I was going to wait but loved th pricing i got on the 63c8000. Mine too won't come until next week. If yours is better perhaps i can make them meet the price. FYI, I paid $2429 with bundle, I bet the new d series comes in $1000 more.

Where did you got yours?, good price for 63"

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post #117 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 05:26 PM
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Hi All,

Not that it means anything but Samsung are quoting a Dynamic Contrast Ratio of 3,000,000:1. Ironically, last year, Samsung quoted the C8000 Series to have a DCR of 7,000,000:1. I know the numbers in themselves are meaningless & brands normally exaggerate them over the slightest improvement from the previous years models so I am wondering why they have quoted a "relatively massive" drop in the Contrast Ratio spiel?

I would find it very odd if the D8000 had lesser blacks than the C8000 given that it is newer model with improvements highlighted in their info sheet over last years models?

Bazzy!
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post #118 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 05:42 PM
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Could the "local contrast enhancer" be a sharpening algorithm, kinda like the effect that is explained here:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...nhancement.htm

Birgir "keyser"
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post #119 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 05:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi All,

Not that it means anything but Samsung are quoting a Dynamic Contrast Ratio of 3,000,000:1. Ironically, last year, Samsung quoted the C8000 Series to have a DCR of 7,000,000:1. I know the numbers in themselves are meaningless & brands normally exaggerate them over the slightest improvement from the previous years models so I am wondering why they have quoted a "relatively massive" drop in the Contrast Ratio spiel?

I would find it very odd if the D8000 had lesser blacks than the C8000 given that it is newer model with improvements highlighted in their info sheet over last years models?

Bazzy!



They will reportedly have 2x deeper blacks by CNET.
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post #120 of 3464 Old 01-09-2011, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Not that it means anything but Samsung are quoting a Dynamic Contrast Ratio of 3,000,000:1.

Don't pay attention to those numbers.. they mean nothing. My Kuro is listed as having less ratio than that and I can tell you now it has better blacks than any being released this year.
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