Kuro 6020fd died, what to get now? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone, my pdp-6020fd died , what's something that's close to this TV now in terms of black level/picture quality.
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post #2 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 09:23 AM
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I would just wait to see what the top of line 2011 plasmas offer and go from there.

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post #3 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 09:58 AM
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How do you know it's dead? There's sometimes trivial problems that can be cheaply repaired. If it's just a dead power supply for example that would be a much cheaper repair than trying to get something remotely comparable.
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post #4 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dlplover View Post
How do you know it's dead? There's sometimes trivial problems that can be cheaply repaired. If it's just a dead power supply for example that would be a much cheaper repair than trying to get something remotely comparable.
Don't, must have been lightning, fried dryer as well....Just going to throw away and get something else....
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post #5 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Xer0dIn View Post
Don't, must have been lightning, fried dryer as well....Just going to throw away and get something else....

What day do you put your trash out?


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post #6 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 10:40 AM
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What day do you put your trash out?
No kidding. If there's anything worth fixing, it's a Kuro.

Just about anything short of a new panel is probably worth replacing.
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post #7 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 10:44 AM
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No kidding. If there's anything worth fixing, it's a Kuro.

Just about anything short of a new panel is probably worth replacing.
agreed!

Xer0dIn - how about homeowner's insurance?


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post #8 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Xer0dIn View Post
Don't, must have been lightning, fried dryer as well....Just going to throw away and get something else....
You're outa your mind if you seriously intend to do that without trying hard to get it fixed.

There's nothing out there presently that will be better than what you've got... and hell, depending on what needs to be replaced, it could be a great time for a 6020FD to Elite mod.
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post #9 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Xer0dIn View Post
Hello everyone, my pdp-6020fd died , what's something that's close to this TV now in terms of black level/picture quality.
Xero, the Samsung 8000 series or the Panasonic V25 will exceed the old kuro. You might find good deals on 2010 models since the new models will probably be available in 2 months.
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post #10 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 11:14 AM
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Oh, and from what I've read about LGs, you may wanna look at their top models too!
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post #11 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post
Xero, the Samsung 8000 series or the Panasonic V25 will exceed the old kuro.
LOL. Here it comes again.

Did Pioneer call your sister ugly or something, discopaul?
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post #12 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 11:27 AM
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If your tech. ability is up to it you can find used parts online.
If you have to pay some one to transport and repair it may not be worth it.
The power supply alone is listed at ~$400 from Pioneer.

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/...m=PDP%2D6020FD
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post #13 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Noah View Post
LOL. Here it comes again.

Did Pioneer call your sister ugly or something, discopaul?
You seem to have an issue with a different point of view. I suppose I'm an infidel from your point of view!

Anyway, Xer0. Do yourself a favor and go check out the LG's, Panny's, and Samsungs.
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post #14 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post
You seem to have an issue with a different point of view.
Just what is your point of view and what is it based on?

Have you owned Kuros and compared them to these other brands?

I have no problems accepting other opinions, but opinions based on hearsay that contradict prevailing expert viewpoints carry little weight with me.
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post #15 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

Have you owned Kuros and compared them to these other brands?

Nah, Samsung doesn't pay him enough to afford a Kuro

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post #16 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

Just what is your point of view and what is it based on?

Have you owned Kuros and compared them to these other brands?

I have no problems accepting other opinions, but opinions based on hearsay that contradict prevailing expert viewpoints carry little weight with me.

I have not owned a kuro though I have seen them side-by-side with Sammies and Pannies.

Prevailing expert opinion? Well, accepting that statement, expert viewpoints aren't necessarily the final say. Numerous expert measurements show kuro weaknesses. Among them that are critical for me are poor processing, reduced off axis brightness, and average detail reproduction.
Look, I have never said the kuros are bad. In fact they were my 2nd favorite. I and others have posted reviews showing Sammies having unsurpassed if not superior color accuracy as well as the best processing of the major brands including Pioneer.
Like everyone you are certainly entitled to make decisions based on your criteria. Mine is different from yours. I always encourage prospective buyers to observe TV's of interest and not let others tell them what their own eyes can tell them.

You clearly have difficulty accepting differing points of view. I know you saw the numerous postings from experts that praise Samsung plasmas in other threads we were both a part of. If these are hearsay, I could just as easily claim your assertions are hearsay.

I have to wonder at this point if you aren't experiencing buyers remorse. This need to counter recommendations that aren't kuro certainly makes me wonder if you aren't secretly lusting for a 58" 8000 series Sammy. Thou truly dost protest too much!
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post #17 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 01:55 PM
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Nah, Samsung doesn't pay him enough to afford a Kuro

They do pay enough but they also know a comparison is academic because kuro is history!
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post #18 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 02:14 PM
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discopaul,

Find me a broadly accepted, objective reviewer who calls any 2010 model from any manufacturer superior overall to a 9G Kuro. I double dog dare you.

Yes, any model has its strengths and weaknesses, so weighing all the factors is the only way to make an informed decision.

Also, I really have no idea how you can praise Samsung processing with its undefeatable sharpening. If I want things to look painfully artificial, I'll buy an LCD...I'd prefer it if plasmas weren't bastardized in the same way.
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post #19 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Noah View Post

discopaul,

Find me a broadly accepted, objective reviewer who calls any 2010 model from any manufacturer superior overall to a 9G Kuro. I double dog dare you.

Yes, any model has its strengths and weaknesses, so weighing all the factors is the only way to make an informed decision.

Also, I really have no idea how you can praise Samsung processing with its undefeatable sharpening. If I want things to look painfully artificial, I'll buy an LCD...I'd prefer it if plasmas weren't bastardized in the same way.

Noah, you're asking a ridiculous question. For the same reason I saw no reviewer comparing a defunct Fugitsu (at one time regarded as one of the best) to contempary plasmas from that period, I haven't seen a review make a similar kuro 9G/sammy comparison.
Again, my decisions aren't skewed towards what some reviewer(s) says. I may agree, I may disagree. I have my own mind, and my own criteria defines what I ultimately choose! I see no need to validate my decisions based on reviewers or downplaying other brands.

As for the sharpness argument, you still didn't answer my logical question. Why are you assuming zero means something else? Samsung plasmas allow the user to set sharpness to 0. Because Pioneers may have a separate sharpness defeat means nothing. Samsung may have simply chosen not to add a separate defeat because they assumed most people know what "0" means!
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post #20 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 03:02 PM
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well if it really was a power surge it is most likely a power supply issue. I mean think about it the cord connects to that PCB and something there will let go. if you can find the part number it is not hard to replace. Now that does not mean you have to fix the tv it is your money but list it on ebay say you had a power surge someone will buy the set and at least get something out of it.

I would look at panasoic, samsung, LG I am in the middle of buying a tv I am on my second. I have a couple panasonics and my last g series I struggled to the color accuracy on. it is funny my cheap x series 720p set had better out of the box color than my more expensive g15 but it did not have as good of black levels and has worse image retention.

I bought a 60pk550 lg because of the price and it was 60" as opposed to 58. the picture quality was very nice but it had no anti-reflective filter so during the day in my living room the glare was too much. I have read the 750 had issues but the 950 has the filter and the only issue i the price really. if you don't care about 3d it would be a set to look at I may try it out.

I now have a PN-58C8000 paid $1750 for a floor model. Very nice picture. might not have as good of blacks as the panasoic but better color accuracy for sure and the detail is amazing. It however has the infamous hum or "buzz". it is the coils in the TV from what I have read. My wife can't hear it. I can't even hear it in some situations. If I lay on the couch can't hear it. if I sit up I can at low volume. I am pondering on returning it for a panasonic or the lg 950 if I can't find a way to not hear the hum or buzz. I have read even changing the mount height can change it.

honestly though I can't find the perfect TV there is probably going to be a settling point. you just have to decide what it important more important blacks, color, reflection, or if your ears can pick up on the hum or buzz of the samsung. it is a real issue some people it just does not bother. my wife thinks I am crazy but I can hear it plain as day and she can't. I would say the panel hum is 3 times as loud as my panasonics.

I guess my whole point to that rant is if the Kuro had no flaws to you it may be worth fixing. I would like to try out a high end panasonic but they are in the middle of the model switch over so they did not have a vt series 58" to try. I may try to find one in a different store and buy it to do a side by side.

I think the thing that pisses me off right now is picture quality has not been an issue with any of the models to me so far it has been other design flaws. the picture of both the LG and the samsung were very nice.
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post #21 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

I haven't seen a review make a similar kuro 9G/sammy comparison.

David Katzmaier at CNet uses a PRO-111FD as his reference display and compares every HDTV he reviews to it. He is by no means alone in doing so, either. As I recall, both Sound & Vision and Home Theater Magazine reviewers also use Kuros as a reference, just to name two more. The fact that they aren't in production certainly hasn't deterred comparisons.

Here's an excerpt from Katzmaier's review of the PN50C7000, for example:
Quote:


The numerous shots of space provided some of the best examples; the void between the stars, the letterbox bars and the shadow in front of the Enterprise's warp drive in Chapter 5, for example, all appeared a bit darker than on the G20 and the UNC8000, but lighter than on the VT25, LH8500 and our reference Pioneer.


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Again, my decisions aren't skewed towards what some reviewer(s) says. I may agree, I may disagree. I have my own mind, and my own criteria defines what I ultimately choose! I see no need to validate my decisions based on reviewers or downplaying other brands.

It sounds to me like you're dismissing reviewers out of hand because they don't represent your (oddly parochial) views that don't place a particularly high value on picture quality.

I'm certainly not suggesting that you shouldn't make up your own mind, but when you go around recommending various brands/models in a manner than flies in the face of objective data and objective reviews, you can certainly expect someone like me to take you to task on it.

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As for the sharpness argument, you still didn't answer my logical question. Why are you assuming zero means something else? Samsung plasmas allow the user to set sharpness to 0. Because Pioneers may have a separate sharpness defeat means nothing. Samsung may have simply chosen not to add a separate defeat because they assumed most people know what "0" means!

You've completely missed the boat here. I'm not calling for a separate control.

The problem with Samsung's processing is that zero isn't zero. Turning sharpness all the way down will still leave you with ringing. This is easily verifiable with any number of test patterns and has been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere. The fact that you're oblivious to it speaks volumes.
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post #22 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

David Katzmaier at CNet uses a PRO-111FD as his reference display and compares every HDTV he reviews to it. He is by no means alone in doing so, either. As I recall, both Sound & Vision and Home Theater Magazine reviewers also use Kuros as a reference, just to name two more. The fact that they aren't in production certainly hasn't deterred comparisons.

Here's an excerpt from Katzmaier's review of the PN50C7000, for example:




It sounds to me like you're dismissing reviewers out of hand because they don't represent your (oddly parochial) views that don't place a particularly high value on picture quality.

I'm certainly not suggesting that you shouldn't make up your own mind, but when you go around recommending various brands/models in a manner than flies in the face of objective data and objective reviews, you can certainly expect someone like me to take you to task on it.

You've completely missed the boat here. I'm not calling for a separate control.

The problem with Samsung's processing is that zero isn't zero. Turning sharpness all the way down will still leave you with ringing. This is easily verifiable with any number of test patterns and has been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere. The fact that you're oblivious to it speaks volumes.

So are you implying Katzmaier is saying kuro is better overall than Samsung?
Where is the data to support ringing? I have yet to see test reports to confirm this. I have asked you to supply this evidence before and all I've gotten is crickets chirping!

Conversely, refer to this recent link showing kuro vs samsung.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1311878&page=4
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post #23 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 03:56 PM
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I don't think there's a real need to beat up discopaul. The OP stated that he wanted a set that's close to his Kuro's black level and picture quality. Discopaul listed some options that are good options for the OP to look at.

What I have noticed is that OP has not expressed any interest in fixing his set, but rather just doing away with it and purchasing something new. I can under this because it may not be that easy for the OP to do this. Not everyone has the know-how or the will to go through the trouble to try and fix a 60" plasma. I have a 180lb 65" plasma and unless the tech guy could come to my house, open up some little panel and replace a board or something, I would do the same and just shop for a new set. I'm surprised people keep trying to get the OP to fix his set when the title of the thread asked "what should he get now", not "how do I fix my broken tv?".
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post #24 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogbuehi View Post

I don't think there's a real need to beat up discopaul. The OP stated that he wanted a set that's close to his Kuro's black level and picture quality. Discopaul listed some options that are good options for the OP to look at.

.

He didn't just list some options, he said "the Samsung 8000 series or the Panasonic V25 will exceed the old kuro". While this may be true in regards to his criteria of what makes a good tv, this contradicts what a great majority of professional reviewers regard as what makes the best tv. The opinion of the professionals is that the kuro is still top of the line, superior to everything else. Saying blindly "Samsung 8000 or panny v25 will exceed the the old kuro" is misleading to the OP
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post #25 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by karlmalone1 View Post

He didn't just list some options, he said "the Samsung 8000 series or the Panasonic V25 will exceed the old kuro". While this may be true in regards to his criteria of what makes a good tv, this contradicts what a great majority of professional reviewers regard as what makes the best tv. The opinion of the professionals is that the kuro is still top of the line, superior to everything else. Saying blindly "Samsung 8000 or panny v25 will exceed the the old kuro" is misleading to the OP

Ok, last time. Did you happen to read in the link the post that said this from AVForums. It's in reference to the Samsung 50C7000?

"Overall this really is an excellent set of results and Samsung’s video processing remains the benchmark against which other consumer displays are measured."

http://www.avforums.com/review/Samsu...ma-review.html
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post #26 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

Ok, last time. Did you happen to read in the link the post that said this from AVForums. It's in reference to the Samsung 50C7000?

"Overall this really is an excellent set of results and Samsung’s video processing remains the benchmark against which other consumer displays are measured."

http://www.avforums.com/review/Samsu...ma-review.html

It's only been two weeks and you've already forgotten that D-Nice flushed your processing turd down the crapper?
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post #27 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 04:59 PM
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It's only been two weeks and you've already forgotten that D-Nice flushed your processing turd down the crapper?

Silly me, paying attention to outside reviewers. D-Nice says so, his faithful of course agree, so it must be so
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post #28 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 05:46 PM
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What's even funnier is that the reviewer does not even mention the words "Kuro" or "Pioneer" in his review, but rather says only that the C7000 has "some of the best video processing on the market." How you go from that to claiming the guy said it's better than Kuro is beyond me, or anyone else with a rational mind.

And interestingly enough, Kuro is no longer "on the market." Hmmmm...puts that statement in an even less convincing light as support for your claim,
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post #29 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 05:51 PM
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Wow, I'd be inquiring how to get the 6020 fixed rather than ditching it for another brand.
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post #30 of 56 Old 02-17-2011, 05:58 PM
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I would recommend the Panasonic VT25. In Pioneer's last year of production, they actually contracted Panasonic to make most of their panels. When they dissolved their TV line, Panasonic also purchased many of their panel patents. I believe that some of that quality did role over to Panasonic's new high end models.
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