Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxST30 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 12:35 AM
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Just got a 42st30 today to fit into a piece of bedroom furniture. Since this is the only option at this size for 3D, I'm hoping to make the best of it. SO.....

can someone please post all the preferred picture settings for ST30 line to get it close to a calibrated set???? Thanks in advance for any help/advice!
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post #272 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 02:54 AM
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Okay, this is VERY far fetched speculation, but if the ST30 black levels are indeed worse than last years g20 series, could it be that Panasonic just has chosen to set the levels that way deliberately so that they could improve the levels with GT30 and VT30?

I mean, they left out the 96 Hz 24p support from all 2010 North American models except the vt series, but in european version Pannys from s2 to vt-series all tvs displayed 24p as 96 Hz. The way Panasonic is acting in North American market suggests that they want to make people buy the most expensive model if they want to enjoy best possible blu-ray playback.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that GT30 and VT30 had better black levels than ST30 even if they have the same panel.
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post #273 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Spanky View Post

cnet confirmed same panel AND same electronics in the st and gt ..

if the pcb is different .. then apparently cnets "reliable" source has lied to them ..

also can you please provide a link to that information ..

im curious about the source ..

thx ..

If the ST and GT shared the same panel AND electronics they would both have cooling fans, yet the ST doesn't while the GT does. So Panasonic feels the GT needs extra assistance with heat dissipation despite having the same internals? Doesn't seem right to me. Some of the electronics must be different.
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post #274 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post

If the ST and GT shared the same panel AND electronics they would both have cooling fans, yet the ST doesn't while the GT does. So Panasonic feels the GT needs extra assistance with heat dissipation despite having the same internals? Doesn't seem right to me. Some of the electronics must be different.

It's already been explained that the ST is a lot fatter. It doesn't necessarily confirm anything. It could just mean the GT/VT have their heat trapped into a much tighter space and need fans to disperse it.
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post #275 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul33993 View Post

It's already been explained that the ST is a lot fatter. It doesn't necessarily confirm anything. It could just mean the GT/VT have their heat trapped into a much tighter space and need fans to disperse it.

This would seem to be correct. Even back in 2009, the G10 had two fans, while the G15 which is the same TV only with a thinner upper rear cabinet had four fans.

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post #276 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 08:42 AM
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Something else I noticed was rated power consumption figures.
At 50" the gt runs ~15% higher than the st.
At 55" the gt/vt run ~10% higher than the st.
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post #277 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VFR View Post

Something else I noticed was rated power consumption figures.
At 50" the gt runs ~15% higher than the st.
At 55" the gt/vt run ~10% higher than the st.

I think I read somewhere that the models with darker filters run at a higher voltage to combat the dimmer picture because of the darker filter. Not sure how true that is though.

Headed off to Best Buy today to see if they have any of the new models and also to play with the ipad 2 I'll snap some pics if I see anything worthwhile.
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post #278 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 09:31 AM
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Has anyone been able to compare the maximum brightness of 3d compared to last years models? Has this been improved? I saw the French article on the GT30 that said 3d was dimmer than last year and was surprised since I thought that was one of the big things they addressed this year.
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post #279 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I think I read somewhere that the models with darker filters run at a higher voltage to combat the dimmer picture because of the darker filter. Not sure how true that is though.

I recall reading the same thing.
I also thought the gt and st share the same filter and the vt gets the upgrade.
If thats the case the extra juice required to increase light output must be insignificant as the gt and vt are rated within a few watts of each other.

At this point who knows.
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post #280 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul33993 View Post

It's already been explained that the ST is a lot fatter. It doesn't necessarily confirm anything. It could just mean the GT/VT have their heat trapped into a much tighter space and need fans to disperse it.

ST is not "a lot fatter" than GT/VT. The difference is only a few mm.
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post #281 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by H_Prestige View Post
ST is not "a lot fatter" than GT/VT. The difference is only a few mm.
Which comes out to almost 20 percent thicker. It's not insignificant. Especially considering the amount of heat plasmas generate. That may or may not make the difference.
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post #282 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 02:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Don't call people misinformed when you yourself are misinformed. Panasonic engineers openly claimed to have beaten Kuro black levels in their newest PDP panels for the 2011 TVs.

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-proclaim...asma-tvs/4241/

Wow.. I take back my apology, I didn't get corrected. They actually DIDN'T say anywhere that they matched 9G blacks, just like I thought. So yes, you are misinformed.
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post #283 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 05:05 PM
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i posted some comments in that hd guru Panny article, and HD guru responded , kinda interesting. I signed up here to share with you guys.


ME
Quote:


The famous Chad B reviewed the ST30, says the blacks are ok , alot of people complaining about how high they are considering all the hype (like in this Panny hype article) about how awesome the blacks should be. example:
We were told the 2011 ST series models has black that are at the same level of the 2010 G series which came in .008 ft lamberts.

in chad B's review he writes
The black level, measured with a Milori Trichromat-1 meter profiled off an i1Pro Spectro, and with a black blanket blocking any ambient light, measured .0135 fL

so yea. maybe the 2011 GT and VT series, with THX, can improve blacks? they all use the same panels so it doesn't seem like they would improve much at all.



HD GURU
Quote:


The Trichomat-1 is a tri-stimulus contact probe. I am not aware of any of these types of products having a luminance accuracy of under .05 ft. lamberts (and many are only accurate to .1 ft lamberts).

As for all TVs using the same panels, Panasonic calls the VT30 model an infinite black pro 2 panel, while the GT is infinite black. Regardless of how they are achieving claimed deeper blacks, the proof will be in measuring with a meter with better light level accuracy (than a tri-stimulus contact probe) to determine the actual black level. When we get ourhands on a production sample I will make my readings and report them.

My subjective look at the VT30 at CES and at the line show tells me its quite deep. FYI, I place my hands over the screen where there is black content to form a tube to block out as much of the ambient light as possible and then place my eye over my hands. Completely subjective, though one can see how much residual glow there is on the panel. The only way to really know black level is to measure in a dark room with a sensitive, accurate instrument.

HD Guru

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post #284 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 05:24 PM
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Thanks chad, I've tried those settings and is a bit more tolerable. I did notice the off skintones were more of an eyesore on time warner hd box, not so much on some ps3 games, but blu ray seemed fine. I'll try more in ps3 games and blu rays tomorrow, at a friends comparing his samsung led 55c8000 to ST.
The overdrive halo from fast moving objects show up in areas that the ST handles much more naturally. I know they are two different techs, but I just wanted to see what I could be missing if any. Man this guy sure likes his set bright contrast is at 100 and backlight is at 14 of 20.
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post #285 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny VIn View Post

i posted some comments in that hd guru Panny article, and HD guru responded , kinda interesting. I signed up here to share with you guys.


ME




HD GURU
The Trichomat-1 is a tri-stimulus contact probe. I am not aware of any of these types of products having a luminance accuracy of under .05 ft. lamberts (and many are only accurate to .1 ft lamberts).

As for all TVs using the same panels, Panasonic calls the VT30 model an infinite black pro 2 panel, while the GT is infinite black. Regardless of how they are achieving claimed deeper blacks, the proof will be in measuring with a meter with better light level accuracy (than a tri-stimulus contact probe) to determine the actual black level. When we get ourhands on a production sample I will make my readings and report them.

My subjective look at the VT30 at CES and at the line show tells me its quite deep. FYI, I place my hands over the screen where there is black content to form a tube to block out as much of the ambient light as possible and then place my eye over my hands. Completely subjective, though one can see how much residual glow there is on the panel. The only way to really know black level is to measure in a dark room with a sensitive, accurate instrument.

HD Guru

Yeah, yeah, yeah, another ignorant slam on my meter. I say ignorant because I can prove it's ignorant; I'm not just calling people names.
The Trichromat-1 is rated by the manufacturer to read accurate color down to .05 cd/m2, which when converted to fL is .0146. And with luminance being easier to read than color, it's accurate below that number for measuring blacks. Someone else here on the form made a similar judgement about a D2 meter not being able to measure the black of a PK550 plasma. This is his statement and D-Nice's answer:

I don't think you can trust anything the i1D2 tells you when measuring much less than 0.4 or 0.5 fL. You'll get a measurement, it just doesn't necessarily have much to do with reality.


D-Nice:
The D2 is quite capable of accurately measuring luminance (including the minimum luminance level) on a PK550. No one said anything about the accuracy of RGB xy below 0.01fL In other words, yes, the color accuracy of the meter is going to stray below it's rated range, but it can still be perfectly capable of giving a reasonably accurate luminance reading quite a ways below that.

I also own a Chroma5 which is also rated down to .05 cd/m2. However, it starts to give junk readings much below it's rated range. I don't know exactly where it's cutoff is, but I know if I tried to measure a display that was .004 or so it'd come back with some ridiculous number. So not all meters are created equally, even ones rated down to the same levels.

BTW, I also measured the blacks of the 2010 G25 at .0083, which is within experimental error of their measurement of .008, which I suppose was taken with their expensive Minolta meter..
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post #286 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 09:51 PM
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I saw an ST30 in Best Buy today, but it was only running in 3D mode. They replaced the VT25 3D display with the ST30. I played around with settings a bit but they didn't have a remote so I had to use the buttons on the side, which was annoying. A couple quick adjustments though and it definitely looked a lot better than the default store settings. Certainly the brightest I've seen a plasma look in a Best Buy, even when looking through the glasses, and the colors have a lot of pop. Also, the panel design looks fantastic in person. The promo pictures don't do it justice. It's a sleek, stylish design and seemed a lot thinner than last year's Panasonics..
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post #287 of 8449 Old 03-11-2011, 10:33 PM
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Any buzzing?

"Buzzing: slightly more audible from VT25, though not enough to be concerned about."

lol. What does this MEAN? My g20 drives me up a wall. According to CNET the G20 was also worse than the VT25. Subjective, unfortunately.
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post #288 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarieAntoinette View Post

Any buzzing?

"Buzzing: slightly more audible from VT25, though not enough to be concerned about."

lol. What does this MEAN? My g20 drives me up a wall. According to CNET the G20 was also worse than the VT25. Subjective, unfortunately.

What I meant by that is during the calibration and evaluation I occasionally could hear buzzing from the 2 plasmas that were both on and sitting side by side. It depended on what was being displayed. It wasn't as loud as either my PS3 or my Xbox 360 is at home, though. When I heard it, I walked up to them a couple times to hear which panel was doing the most buzzing. The VT25 was contributing more to the buzz than the ST30.
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post #289 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 06:40 AM
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Mr. chadb , i wanted to thank you for reviewing the unit. arguing about the accuracy of the black level reader thing is probably the geekiest thing i have ever partaken in.
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post #290 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny VIn View Post

Mr. chadb , i wanted to thank you for reviewing the unit. arguing about the accuracy of the black level reader thing is probably the geekiest thing i have ever partaken in.

Thanks! Yeah, I have to agree. Even my wife calls me a nerd.
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post #291 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 08:28 AM
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Chad,
I concur with everything you are saying. Using my Chroma 5 I have had what I consider to be accurate luminance readings down to .008ftl. I base this on readings that you, D-nice and other calibrators have received on the same models of tv.

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post #292 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 11:50 AM
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One thing to note, the built-in speakers are pretty cheap. They distort easily on some materials. Although Im not worried about that as I have separate audio components, I just wanted to point that out.

About DLNA through a wireless connection, some HD material lag as expected, all the videos are not in alphabetical order and for some reason, it can't or doesn't display everything shared in the folder. For example, I have over 200 1080p movies in one folder, and the TV is only able to display 13 titles, yet it can display almost or all of my SD movies, which is over 2 TB. But, like I said, it's a pain trying to look for a specific movie to watch as it doesn't list it in alphabetical order.
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post #293 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Chad,
I concur with everything you are saying. Using my Chroma 5 I have had what I consider to be accurate luminance readings down to .008ftl. I base this on readings that you, D-nice and other calibrators have received on the same models of tv.

Glad to hear that, Donny. Thanks.
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post #294 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 01:58 PM
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Chad,

I would ignore HD Guru's comments. He is very misinformed about the luminance capabilities the Trichromat-1/C5/D2.

BTW, I'm getting a consistant 0.0083fL on the 50ST30 with my K-10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Yeah, yeah, yeah, another ignorant slam on my meter. I say ignorant because I can prove it's ignorant; I'm not just calling people names.
The Trichromat-1 is rated by the manufacturer to read accurate color down to .05 cd/m2, which when converted to fL is .0146. And with luminance being easier to read than color, it's accurate below that number for measuring blacks. Someone else here on the form made a similar judgement about a D2 meter not being able to measure the black of a PK550 plasma. This is his statement and D-Nice's answer:
I don't think you can trust anything the i1D2 tells you when measuring much less than 0.4 or 0.5 fL. You'll get a measurement, it just doesn't necessarily have much to do with reality.

D-Nice:
The D2 is quite capable of accurately measuring luminance (including the minimum luminance level) on a PK550. No one said anything about the accuracy of RGB xy below 0.01fL
In other words, yes, the color accuracy of the meter is going to stray below it's rated range, but it can still be perfectly capable of giving a reasonably accurate luminance reading quite a ways below that.

I also own a Chroma5 which is also rated down to .05 cd/m2. However, it starts to give junk readings much below it's rated range. I don't know exactly where it's cutoff is, but I know if I tried to measure a display that was .004 or so it'd come back with some ridiculous number. So not all meters are created equally, even ones rated down to the same levels.

BTW, I also measured the blacks of the 2010 G25 at .0083, which is within experimental error of their measurement of .008, which I suppose was taken with their expensive Minolta meter..

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post #295 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Chad,

I would ignore HD Guru's comments. He is very misinformed about the luminance capabilities the Trichromat-1/C5/D2.

BTW, I'm getting a consistant 0.0083fL on the 50ST30 with my K-10.

Thanks for weighing in on the ftl of the ST30. That puts it right in line with the Panny rep's statements from the other day and my expectations for the set.
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post #296 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Chad,

I would ignore HD Guru's comments. He is very misinformed about the luminance capabilities the Trichromat-1/C5/D2.

BTW, I'm getting a consistant 0.0083fL on the 50ST30 with my K-10.

Thanks, and I'm glad to hear your reading on the ST30.
By the way, did you measure with both 1080P/24 and another scan rate? I'm just curious if that has any impact, and I don't have access to the review sample any more.
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post #297 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #298 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

By the way, did you measure with both 1080P/24 and another scan rate? I'm just curious if that has any impact, and I don't have access to the review sample any more.

480i to 1080p/24
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post #299 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 02:45 PM
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Just got back from Best Buy and looked at the 50st30. I liked it. They had a 55 c650 and the 50vt20 near by. I have a 50vt25 so I used the vt20 to compare with. The st is a lot thinner. Also I like the stand being sleek and square.

The coolest part was the bezel. It seemed as though you could see the panel behind it, like a halo going around the middle of the bezel. The top layer of the bezel is clear. But it still leaves the same lip over the screen as the vt25 does. The bottom corners are more rounded than the top two bc of the speakers.

I switched it to cinema and did nothing else. The vt was on a 3d demo so I didn't mess with it and the Sammy was switched to cinema too. The st looked to me much more natural. But more dim. The blacks looked good. I didn't notice any offness in the skin tones. Also I got very close (eyelashes almost touching) and saw minimal dithering. From any distance the glare was MUCH worse on the Sammy.

Overall I thought it was nice. I also looked at the Sony x810 or something. It had the monolithic panel. It was very cool. Can't wait to see it on the vt30.
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post #300 of 8449 Old 03-12-2011, 02:47 PM
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I didn't notice any offness in the skin tones.

Post calibration, I haven't seen this either.
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