Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxST30 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 8460 Old 03-13-2011, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
But the Panny Haters in this thread have told us how the GT30 will perform when it gets released next month and are only here to stir up trouble We (and they) need to wait for real world black level testing from reputable known sources.


Yeah it looks like they've weaseled their way around their own price match policy again like they did last year with the G20 and VT20. Someone over at HDJ said the 55GT31 will come with two pair of glasses.
I checked out the specs for it on Best Buy.
It does say it comes with 2 pairs of glasses and Avatar DVD.
I'm assuming that's a typo and it comes with Avatar blu-ray 3D though.
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post #362 of 8460 Old 03-13-2011, 09:44 PM
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Maybe we should stick to the ST30's black level's considering this is its official thread.
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post #363 of 8460 Old 03-13-2011, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by H_Prestige View Post
I saw the ST30 at Best Buy today. Both a 50" and a 42". It looked absolutely FANTASTIC under the lights. The filter was as good as any plasma I've seen, even better than the VT20 and VT25 they had out on the show floor. The screen looked as black as an LCD, not a hint of the washed out look that plagues many plasmas.
Very nice to see people getting to see these units in stores and commenting how they look good instead of reading to deeply into reveiws.......
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post #364 of 8460 Old 03-13-2011, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Very nice to see people getting to see these units in stores and commenting how they look good instead of reading to deeply into reveiws.......
Hey Cleveland, would you shoot for the ST30 or one of Samsung's new models?
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post #365 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
Yeah it looks like they've weaseled their way around their own price match policy again like they did last year with the G20 and VT20. Someone over at HDJ said the 55GT31 will come with two pair of glasses.
In fairness, the warehouse club stores do the same thing; and, really, they can't just change the model #, like stores could do many years ago. Panasonic has to agree to vary the TV slightly (an input and/or aesthetic difference), as I am sure you know, in order to provide them with a legally different TV, to qualify for the different model #, to avoid price matching.
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post #366 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 01:16 AM
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While the ST30 and GT30 might have different MLLs, (though I doubt it, as I said), I would highly doubt the ST30 and VT30 would have the same MLL.

As others have said, they have ways to improve or worsen the MLL. MLL is such an important differentiater, especially for videophiles, to which the VT30 is geared; I really think it will be better.

I hope the GT30 has a 'moderately' better MLL then ST30; otherwise, I would consider a Samsung D7000, which would mean a 59" TV instead of 55" TV.
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post #367 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 02:59 AM
 
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Panasonic is touting "infinite black pro 2" on the VT30 so I guess that is some indication that its black level is probably better than the ST30.
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post #368 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by andymnfun View Post
Hey Cleveland, would you shoot for the ST30 or one of Samsung's new models?
you would need to wait on this one. no reviews yet on the Samsung.
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post #369 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by XxHoosierpannyhater View Post
Because we know Panasonic has a history of lowering blacks in software updates...
Details please. I seem to remember that V10s built after July of '09 were shipped with an updated firmware onboard, but i don't remember any black levels on any models being fixed with a software update. Please give details about which models lowered their black levels with software updates, and how this was accomplished. Links would be sufficient.

And why is it that on one hand you say that Panasonic has a history of lowering blacks in software updates (which would imply that you know that it's possible to change black levels with software/firmware), while on the other hand you maintain that since the GT30 has the same panel as the ST30 then the black levels will be the same?

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post #370 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13WaysToBleed View Post
I checked out the specs for it on Best Buy.
It does say it comes with 2 pairs of glasses and Avatar DVD.
It sounds like Best Buy is giving a "Panasonic TY-EW3D2MMK2 Ultimate 3D Starter Kit" (Avatar 3D + 2 Rechargeable Glasses), which is a similar updated kit than the one Costco gave with the purchase of a TC-46PGT24 Panasonic TV.

Paul
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post #371 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post
They are the same panel. The GT30 isn't going to magically give much better blacks.
Your logic doesn't hold up.

If I placed a new vt25 next to a 2000+ hour vt25-- its a given the black levels will show about a .005 ftL difference despite the fact the panels are identical.

Obviously this was an unintended consequence but it shows that the panels black levels can vary for reasons not related to the panel.
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post #372 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 09:40 AM
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Delivery of 50" ST30 complete.

Just giving it 2 hours to reach room temp before power on. Wifi dongle included.

Asked my wife where she would like it to go (upgrade from 47" x54 Panny RP CRT).

"Up your ass" was the reply She is not amused (broke the news of the arrival this morning).
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post #373 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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post #374 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 09:56 AM
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At least this time I gave her a little advanced notice, when the 47" was delivered in 2002 we were yet to be married, the first hint there was the arrival of the Circuit City truck, her words then: "If its over 50" I'll kill you".
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post #375 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post

Asked my wife where she would like it to go (upgrade from 47" x54 Panny RP CRT).

"Up your ass" was the reply She is not amused (broke the news of the arrival this morning).

Haha. At least you get a week (or two) on your own to enjoy your new toy
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post #376 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post

Delivery of 50" ST30 complete.

Just giving it 2 hours to reach room temp before power on. Wifi dongle included.

Asked my wife where she would like it to go (upgrade from 47" x54 Panny RP CRT).

"Up your ass" was the reply She is not amused (broke the news of the arrival this morning).

I received my 50ST30 yesterday and fired it right up, no worries about room temp here So far, the overall picture looks great. To my non-calibrated eyeball, the blacks are dark and stable. No pulsating. Also no buzzing. Tested BluRay via PS3 - stunning. Also a quick gaming test (Fallout: New Vegas) didn't show any lag, but that is probably not the most demanding game to test for lag.
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post #377 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post

Delivery of 50" ST30 complete.

Just giving it 2 hours to reach room temp before power on. Wifi dongle included.

Asked my wife where she would like it to go (upgrade from 47" x54 Panny RP CRT).

"Up your ass" was the reply She is not amused (broke the news of the arrival this morning).

That was pretty sneaky; but she'll get over it once she gets a gander at the pq and black levels.
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post #378 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

I wonder if the VT30 will ship pre-risen and be at .006 mll (3x the expected black level). Just like the ST30?

That would be crap. Then I would keep my modified PK350, which has 0,005 cd/m2 On/Off and 0,012 cd/m2 ANSI.

Prof. Dr. Turrican M.D.
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post #379 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Prof.Who View Post

I wouldn't lose much sleep over two pairs of glasses, but I really only need 50 inches. Well more accurately, my wife only wants 50 inches.

Be a man and get yourself the 65 inches, you deserve!

Prof. Dr. Turrican M.D.
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post #380 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post

Delivery of 50" ST30 complete.

Just giving it 2 hours to reach room temp before power on. Wifi dongle included.

Asked my wife where she would like it to go (upgrade from 47" x54 Panny RP CRT).

"Up your ass" was the reply She is not amused (broke the news of the arrival this morning).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandu View Post

I received my 50ST30 yesterday and fired it right up, no worries about room temp here So far, the overall picture looks great. To my non-calibrated eyeball, the blacks are dark and stable. No pulsating. Also no buzzing. Tested BluRay via PS3 - stunning. Also a quick gaming test (Fallout: New Vegas) didn't show any lag, but that is probably not the most demanding game to test for lag.


If any of you new owners can follow directions in the OP Here to measure the input lag of the new lines, it'd be greatly appreciated by a number of users.
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post #381 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

Panny haters? Stir up trouble?

They are the same panel. The GT30 isn't going to magically give much better blacks. If you want to believe it will then fine, but don't call people haters and wanting to stir trouble, we are only using common sense. Same panel = same blacks.

The fact that CNEt was told by Panasonic the same thing reinforces this.

HDGuru is a unreliable site anyways. Saying the meter Chad was using isn't reliable is a joke.

Like I said before, same glass doesn't necessarily mean the same blacks.

The DSP software doing the driving has a lot to do with the picture you see (read up on PDP panel driving). Your making the assumption all of the TVs (ST,GT,VT) are using the same driving method. You just can't know that yet without insider info. It's a quite common practice to have the same chips in lots of products but just simply disable/enable features based on the level of the product. Happens all the time in microprocessors they use "fuses" to do this. So even though you have a low end chip if it's in the same series as the high end chip it could be identical to the high end chip yet some of the fuses are blown to limit the features. Since these are DSP's were talking about here it's possible different TVs have different versions of the driving code. I can tell you from a manufacturing/design perspective It's a LOT cheaper to use the same components and enable/disable features in software/hardware.

All the while it is possible all of the series will have the same driving method, thus the same blacks. But you just can't know this yet without insider info or until the sets come out and they get tested.

As a good example of this... A lot of CRT TV's (many manufacturers) at one time used "Sony Trinitron" tubes because they were arguably the best out there. Now did all of the TVs perform exactly the same because they all had the same tube? No...

Anyway. all of the panels this year are basically the same between ST,GT,VT from my understanding; only the filters really set them apart.

-David

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post #382 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Gandu View Post

I received my 50ST30 yesterday and fired it right up, no worries about room temp here So far, the overall picture looks great. To my non-calibrated eyeball, the blacks are dark and stable. No pulsating. Also no buzzing. Tested BluRay via PS3 - stunning. Also a quick gaming test (Fallout: New Vegas) didn't show any lag, but that is probably not the most demanding game to test for lag.

Thanks for posting that brief reaction. What about phosphor trails, assuming you are sensitive to them, and have a benchmark against which to judge?

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post #383 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Details please. I seem to remember that V10s built after July of '09 were shipped with an updated firmware onboard, but i don't remember any black levels on any models being fixed with a software update. Please give details about which models lowered their black levels with software updates, and how this was accomplished. Links would be sufficient.

And why is it that on one hand you say that Panasonic has a history of lowering blacks in software updates (which would imply that you know that it's possible to change black levels with software/firmware), while on the other hand you maintain that since the GT30 has the same panel as the ST30 then the black levels will be the same?

Hey, I think he was being sarcastic. I don't know but that is how i read it.
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post #384 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 02:35 PM
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Hey, I think he was being sarcastic. I don't know but that is how i read it.

He was definitely being sarcastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

Because we know Panasonic has a history of lowering blacks in software updates...

Not necessarily software updates. Just different software.
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post #385 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

Thanks for posting that brief reaction. What about phosphor trails, assuming you are sensitive to them, and have a benchmark against which to judge?

Don't think I am sensitive/aware of them. I will put in Black Ops and quickly pan the view around, I assume they should show up there? Is there another way to test for it?
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post #386 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 04:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Details please. I seem to remember that V10s built after July of '09 were shipped with an updated firmware onboard, but i don't remember any black levels on any models being fixed with a software update. Please give details about which models lowered their black levels with software updates, and how this was accomplished. Links would be sufficient.

And why is it that on one hand you say that Panasonic has a history of lowering blacks in software updates (which would imply that you know that it's possible to change black levels with software/firmware), while on the other hand you maintain that since the GT30 has the same panel as the ST30 then the black levels will be the same?

I guess you cannot detect sarcasm, which my statement was.
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post #387 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 04:42 PM
 
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Yes, its TECHNICALLY possible that the GT30 can beat the ST30's MLL(shipping with different software), but it just won't happen.

The G series has had the same MLL as the S series for years. It most likely is not going to change this year. I don't know why some people are expecting 8G blacks on the GT30.
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post #388 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

I guess you cannot detect sarcasm, which my statement was.

Well you've been on a vendetta against Panasonic and going around various Panasonic threads spreading disinformation and stirring up trouble for such a long time now during your anti-Panasonic crusade that it's hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or just being a jerk. Your post history tells a lot about your agenda.

You already stated that you won't be buying another Panasonic and that you're going to buy a Samsung so why are you continually coming into the Panasonic threads other than to be an ass? You serve no purpose here and you don't help anybody so i why are you in all the Panny threads?

Next time you claim to be sarcastic, at least use the Sarcasm smiley.

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post #389 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

Yes, its TECHNICALLY possible that the GT30 can beat the ST30's MLL(shipping with different software), but it just won't happen.

The G series has had the same MLL as the S series for years. It most likely is not going to change this year. I don't know why some people are expecting 8G blacks on the GT30.

*shrug* Maybe because in interviews Panasonic engineers have clearly indicated that the GT30 is supposed to have similar black levels to last years GT25?
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post #390 of 8460 Old 03-14-2011, 05:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

*shrug* Maybe because in interviews Panasonic engineers have clearly indicated that the GT30 is supposed to have similar black levels to last years GT25?

The GT25 has .008 mll, which is the same Mll D-Nice measured on the ST30....

So you are saying the GT30 will match the GT25, which also matches the ST30, like I just said?
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