Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxST30 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Vader182 View Post

It'll likely be out in smaller sizes (like the 50'') later this year, hopefully.

I don't think it's very likely at all. There was a surplus of 50" VT25s well after production ceased, and the year before that there was a surplus of 50" V10s long after production ceased and the year before that there was surplus of 50" PZ800Us for almost a year after production ceased.

The buying public has spoken - there doesn't seem to be enough interest in a "smaller" 50 inch flagship model based on the past years.

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post #992 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I don't think it's very likely at all. There was a surplus of 50" VT25s well after production ceased, and the year before that there was a surplus of 50" V10s long after production ceased and the year before that there was surplus of 50" PZ800Us for almost a year after production ceased.

The buying public has spoken - there doesn't seem to be enough interest in a "smaller" 50 inch flagship model based on the past years.

I guess if you got the money then your going big anyways.
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post #993 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 09:20 AM
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First, it's true, Panasonic couldn't move as many of these 50" panels, so why keep making them in that size. They couldn't keep up on 65" sizes, so there is a real market for that.

Second, I appreciate that at least they can continue to have a real flagship product. Panasonic could very well have cut the VT series and gone with the ST and GT as the new top models and then you'd have an even slower integration of new tech. Budget consumers will win in the end, since many features from the top of the range trickle down in 2 to 3 years time. The majority of the buying public is most likely not upgrading every year or every other year.

I wish it wasn't this way either, but at least there still gets to be a high end enthusiast product for B&M and there's a sense of quality and advancing of pdp vs. the way Samsung and LG work.

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post #994 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

You're right and what makes it even better, as ChadB measured, was an ANSI contrast that was exactly the same as on/off contrast. Even an old 8G Kuro review of the 6010 on HTMag had it's checkerboard pattern/ANSI contrast with blacks measuring .008 ft/L as opposed to .004- which was it's measurement for on/off contrast.

There is a definite increase in the contrast on mid/high APL scenes compared to last year's S2. .008 makes low APL scenes sort of grey/black glowing, but on everything else, it's a pretty deep black that glows. It's got a little lower MLL than my S2, as well, but that's probably more unit to unit variations than anything.

That's interesting. What was the ANSI black level for the VT25 and GT25?
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post #995 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by H_Prestige View Post

That's interesting. What was the ANSI black level for the VT25 and GT25?

I'm not sure other than what ChadB measured on the VT25- ANSI of around 1500:1, I think. He measured idle luminance at .01 ft/L. Still, if he initially measured the ST30 at an even higher MLL, yet it still beat the VT25 on ANSI, I'd say that's an improvement, even if the VT25 was still looking a little deeper in black. Most of that was probably evident with letterbox bars- or he may have viewed low APL content, The Dark Knight to come to that conclusion more definitively.

Then again, I can probably throw most of this out the window, since I remember his G10 ANSI readings were almost 4000:1. Maybe it was because light output was higher?

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post #996 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Thats weird because Chad B said it was very smooth, even as good as the VT25 I think.

With Motion Smoothing off, I notice too many scenes where the motions of actors or camera pans are a little jittery/not smooth. I was watching Closer last night and the scene where Julia Roberts and Clive Owen meet up in a restaurant, Clive walks to the table and sits down... as he's sitting down, the motion is not smooth at all. And when I was watching Planet Earth, there were many scenes where the passing mountain shots weren't the smoothest either.

I've noticed some dithering as well, but turning on VIDEO NR to strong takes care of that problem for the most part. I just hope I have the correct settings on my tv.

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post #997 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert311 View Post


With Motion Smoothing off, I notice too many scenes where the motions of actors or camera pans are a little jittery/not smooth. I was watching Closer last night and the scene where Julia Roberts and Clive Owen meet up in a restaurant, Clive walks to the table and sits down... as he's sitting down, the motion is not smooth at all. And when I was watching Planet Earth, there were many scenes where the passing mountain shots weren't the smoothest either.

I've noticed some dithering as well, but turning on VIDEO NR to strong takes care of that problem for the most part. I just hope I have the correct settings on my tv.

The judder is most likely a natural artifact of 24fps and therefore not a detriment.
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post #998 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 11:15 AM
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I've got the slides loaded up and drive plugged in but can't find out how to get to it for the life of me.
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post #999 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I don't think it's very likely at all. There was a surplus of 50" VT25s well after production ceased, and the year before that there was a surplus of 50" V10s long after production ceased and the year before that there was surplus of 50" PZ800Us for almost a year after production ceased.

The buying public has spoken - there doesn't seem to be enough interest in a "smaller" 50 inch flagship model based on the past years.

Yep, I totally agree.

I think the only chance of another VT30 is a 60" version, only if Panasonic were losing out on too many sales to Samsung 59" D8000 & D7000 plasmas. Even a 60" version is probably less than a 50/50 chance, IME.
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post #1000 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 13WaysToBleed View Post

My only concern right now is that the motion isn't as smooth as I'd like. Didn't someone mention something about this and that there was a setting change that smoothed it out? At first watch it was making me feel a little disoriented too. But I suspect that's because of the jump up in size as I've been watching a 50" the last 4 years. I remember the 50" doing the same thing to me till I got accustomed to it.

I was about to post something about this as well.

I don't know if it's the fact that I came from a 42" TV or that I've never had a plasma, or what... but I have a hard time following fast movement or fast camera pans. I guess it could possibly be a 24p 60hz issue as well but I don't think so.

I watched Star Trek last night and I had a hard time seeing what was going on in certain scenes.

//edit: It may have been the fact that I was watching in zoomed mode (since I'm still breaking in the TV for no black bars)
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post #1001 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 02:51 PM
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This is interesting, I also notice some judder still, but motion smoother just doesn't help. 48hz is supposed to be better than before. I wouldn't say it's unusable. 60hz has improved though, as my S2 had problems handling a scene that my ST30 was able to show smoothly. Overall though, I've found the motion to be very smooth.

It may improve more on the step-up models.

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post #1002 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 03:19 PM
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What exactly is that motion smoother? I returned TWO LCD LED's that when I turned that on in games you could see how it didnt blend the image well when you moved around faster especially in 3rd person games if you turned there would be weird effects on the character but with the ST30's theres absolutely no sign off odd effects the image looks just like its suppose to but smoother. I was fully expecting more crap out of that lol Im so impressed with this TV.
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post #1003 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert311 View Post

With Motion Smoothing off, I notice too many scenes where the motions of actors or camera pans are a little jittery/not smooth. I was watching Closer last night and the scene where Julia Roberts and Clive Owen meet up in a restaurant, Clive walks to the table and sits down... as he's sitting down, the motion is not smooth at all. And when I was watching Planet Earth, there were many scenes where the passing mountain shots weren't the smoothest either.

I've noticed some dithering as well, but turning on VIDEO NR to strong takes care of that problem for the most part. I just hope I have the correct settings on my tv.

i find the motion handling of my st30 to be on par with the gt25s i had ..

im satisfied ..

anything i find that is less than smooth i can usually attribute to the source ..

i notice the minimal judder effect during credits .. much like the gt25s .. but doesnt negatively impact movie scenes/footage ..

the dithering is basically the same as my gt25s ..

is planet earth 24 or 60 fps content ??

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Originally Posted by MASKOAA View Post

What exactly is that motion smoother? I returned TWO LCD LED's that when I turned that on in games you could see how it didnt blend the image well when you moved around faster especially in 3rd person games if you turned there would be weird effects on the character but with the ST30's theres absolutely no sign off odd effects the image looks just like its suppose to but smoother. I was fully expecting more crap out of that lol Im so impressed with this TV.

i agree ..

i had a 6500 and 6300 led samsung tv that made video games look very wierd when amp was turned on ..

this tv has much less impact in that regard ..

but as with the led .. you shouldnt be playing games with motion smoother on newayz .. it introduces lag ..
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post #1004 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 03:31 PM
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The lag it introduces is still less then LCD-LED without AMP on lol.
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post #1005 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MASKOAA View Post

The lag it introduces is still less then LCD-LED without AMP on lol.

yeah .. both the effect itself and the negative impacts it introduces are less than led tech ..

but the ratio of smoothing to soa and lag is similar i think .. just weaker all around ..

i guess if you like the way it looks and dont mind the lag then have at it ..

its just preference of course ..
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post #1006 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 05:48 PM
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I use it in single player games that are 30fps or less.
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post #1007 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Spanky View Post

is planet earth 24 or 60 fps content ?

from what I got after looking online, it's actually 25fps because it was originally shot for the EU area. And apparently they use 25fps over there, so I guess we can call it 24fps.

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post #1008 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert311 View Post

from what I got after looking online, it's actually 25fps because it was originally shot for the EU area. And apparently they use 25fps over there, so I guess we can call it 24fps.

I'm pretty sure its 23.976. The ones I have are, I guess they could have been slowed down but I doubt it.
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Originally Posted by Robert311 View Post

from what I got after looking online, it's actually 25fps because it was originally shot for the EU area. And apparently they use 25fps over there, so I guess we can call it 24fps.

Planet Earth ist in 23.976!
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post #1010 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

You're right and what makes it even better, as ChadB measured, was an ANSI contrast that was exactly the same as on/off contrast. Even an old 8G Kuro review of the 6010 on HTMag had it's checkerboard pattern/ANSI contrast with blacks measuring .008 ft/L as opposed to .004- which was it's measurement for on/off contrast.

Then, the 8G KURO was not as good as I thought. On/Off I get 0.00145 ftl and ANSI 0.00357 ftl with my potituned LG PK350.
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post #1011 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 08:49 PM
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I did a search but didn't find anything in this thread. Does this set have overscan at 720p that cannot be removed like the S2 or was this fixed in this set and presumably the other 2011 sets? If someone could check, just feed the TV a 720p signal from a TV station like Fox or ESPN and check if it can be changed to Full with Size 2. Thanks.

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post #1012 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 09:22 PM
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post #1013 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

I did a search but didn't find anything in this thread. Does this set have overscan at 720p that cannot be removed like the S2 or was this fixed in this set and presumably the other 2011 sets? If someone could check, just feed the TV a 720p signal from a TV station like Fox or ESPN and check if it can be changed to Full with Size 2. Thanks.

With ESPN I can select Full and HD size 2.
Wish Fox I can select Full and H size 2.
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post #1014 of 8443 Old 03-26-2011, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 13WaysToBleed View Post

With ESPN I can select Full and HD size 2.
Wish Fox I can select Full and H size 2.

This would also depend if you depend if you STB or whatever is set to output the native resolutions or if everything is set at 1080. As in an htpc it doesn't auto change by channel.
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post #1015 of 8443 Old 03-27-2011, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

I did a search but didn't find anything in this thread. Does this set have overscan at 720p that cannot be removed like the S2 or was this fixed in this set and presumably the other 2011 sets? If someone could check, just feed the TV a 720p signal from a TV station like Fox or ESPN and check if it can be changed to Full with Size 2. Thanks.

I want to know this too. My parents have a U1 that does this, so I just assumed all Panasonics will keep having overscan at 720p. I like to output 720p from my cable box when watching a channel that's coming in in 720p instead of converting it to 1080i. However, this isn't a dealbreaker for me.

What might be a dealbreaker is the fact that it can't handle 24fps correctly. I don't understand how people can be saying that 60hz is smoother than 96hz on the vt25. I've become sensitive to 3:2 pulldown judder since I've learned the difference between what that looks like and 24fps on a blu ray or in the theater. I can put up with it when watching TV shows, but I really want to have it right for blu rays. I was going to try to get a samsung, but they have the cinema smooth bug. Would I want to sacrifice picture quality and get some other TV displays 24fps correctly (I can't afford the vt)? Especially considering I probably use it about 90-95% for TV shows and only 5-10% for blu ray. Probably not but I have a little OCD.
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post #1016 of 8443 Old 03-27-2011, 08:15 AM
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I want to know this too. My parents have a U1 that does this, so I just assumed all Panasonics will keep having overscan at 720p. I like to output 720p from my cable box when watching a channel that's coming in in 720p instead of converting it to 1080i. However, this isn't a dealbreaker for me.

What might be a dealbreaker is the fact that it can't handle 24fps correctly. I don't understand how people can be saying that 60hz is smoother than 96hz on the vt25. I've become sensitive to 3:2 pulldown judder since I've learned the difference between what that looks like and 24fps on a blu ray or in the theater. I can put up with it when watching TV shows, but I really want to have it right for blu rays. I was going to try to get a samsung, but they have the cinema smooth bug. Would I want to sacrifice picture quality and get some other TV displays 24fps correctly (I can't afford the vt)? Especially considering I probably use it about 90-95% for TV shows and only 5-10% for blu ray. Probably not but I have a little OCD.
I would say no but its up to you. Seems like plasmas only do it on the high end you would probably have to go lcd. But the nice ones are more expensive. Seems only the V for panny gets 96hz this year.
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post #1017 of 8443 Old 03-27-2011, 08:46 AM
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I want to know this too. My parents have a U1 that does this, so I just assumed all Panasonics will keep having overscan at 720p. I like to output 720p from my cable box when watching a channel that's coming in in 720p instead of converting it to 1080i. However, this isn't a dealbreaker for me.
The german Panasonics do not overscan. That's odd.
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post #1018 of 8443 Old 03-27-2011, 09:08 AM
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If anyone bought from BestBuy I'm pretty sure the price just dropped there. I know for a fact the 42 inch model dropped like 40 dollars so I just went and got my refund for that so if anyone else bought from them look up your size on their site and see if it dropped for you to.

I think its okay for me to mention this since I'm not mentioning total price right?
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post #1019 of 8443 Old 03-27-2011, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 13WaysToBleed View Post
With ESPN I can select Full and HD size 2.
Wish Fox I can select Full and H size 2.
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
This would also depend if you depend if you STB or whatever is set to output the native resolutions or if everything is set at 1080. As in an htpc it doesn't auto change by channel.
My box was set to 1080i. Just changed it to 720p and tried again.
I can now select Full and HD size 2 for both channels.
However when I was playing around with these settings last night, selecting size 2 left a white line at the top of the screen at one point and I had to switch back to size 1. It's not doing that at the moment though.
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post #1020 of 8443 Old 03-27-2011, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MASKOAA View Post
If anyone bought from BestBuy I'm pretty sure the price just dropped there. I know for a fact the 42 inch model dropped like 40 dollars so I just went and got my refund for that so if anyone else bought from them look up your size on their site and see if it dropped for you to.

I think its okay for me to mention this since I'm not mentioning total price right?
Okay that's really weird, because I noticed my 50" ST dropped $50 at Best Buy. But now it's back to the second sale price. I was gonna go and get my $50 back, but that price was only effective for a day or 2. damn.

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