Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxST30 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Spanky View Post

the hell with that ..

im gonna form a lynch mob ..

I will bring the pitch forks! lol
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post #212 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 09:38 PM
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I saw an 50ST30 at Best Buy and it looked pretty good to me. By no stretch of the imagination did it look bad. Under those conditions I can't say it looked all that better then the other plasma around it. The colors were a bit more vibrant. Maybe a bit more detail. But who knows how the sets were adjusted.

Note: I am editing this to indicate that the sets below were LEDs.

They also had a Samsung 55D8000 and a 55D6000 on display. I liked the cosmetics of the 6000 better then the 8000. I just don't care for the silver. The D8000 just looked cheap to me with the the small sliver bezel and silver crows feet stand. I did like that the screen swiveled. I liked the black trim on the 6000 better even though the bezel was thicker. To me the D6000 looked like it was a much more substantial piece from a cosmetic standpoint.

The pictures on both looked good. But again I couldn't say they looked better then the other sets around them.

I didn't spend a whole lot of time with the sets. Next time I am going to bring a couple of my DVDs.

The sales person told me that there were a bunch of new models in the warehouse and that I should come back closer to the end of the month.

TWD
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post #213 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutdotnet View Post

I will bring the pitch forks! lol



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Originally Posted by TWD View Post

I saw an 50ST30 at Best Buy and it looked pretty good to me. By no stretch of the imagination did it look bad. Under those conditions I can't say it looked all that better then the other plasma around it. The colors were a bit more vibrant. Maybe a bit more detail. But who knows how the sets were adjusted.

They also had a Samsung 55D8000 and a 55D6000 on display. I liked the cosmetics of the 6000 better then the 8000. I just don't care for the silver. The D8000 just looked cheap to me with the the small sliver bezel and silver crows feet stand. I did like that the screen swiveled. I liked the black trim on the 6000 better even though the bezel was thicker. To me the D6000 looked like it was a much more substantial piece from a cosmetic standpoint.

The pictures on both looked good. But again I couldn't say they looked better then the other sets around them.

I didn't spend a whole lot of time with the sets. Next time I am going to bring a couple of my DVDs.

The sales person told me that there were a bunch of new models in the warehouse and that I should come back closer to the end of the month.

to quote dalton .. "opinions vary" ..

ty for the relatively comforting observation ..

i need to make a trip to BB me thinks ..
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post #214 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 10:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Samsung has a very cozy and underhanded relationship with Best Buy and their managers. Both companies are very disreputable so they're like two peas in a pod. A few of my low voltage customers are former BB and Magnolia employees and the things that they say go on behind closed doors explains a lot about why they're such a big advocate of Samsung products. They've even made TV commercials together.

Oh those evil scheming conniving bastards! Such insolence, teaming together to sell TV's like that!

C'mon man, who cares how they do their marketing...looks like best buy gives a 30 day return period so customers have nothing to lose if they don't like what they bought.

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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Also keep in mind that last year Chad measured the VT25 at .01 MLL when every other reviewer measured .004 on that set.

Chad also measured 0.005ftL on the 65VT25, so he obviously knows how to take proper readings and has the right equipment. The 0.01 reading was probably due to RB's as that's exactly what they're sposed to rise to. I'm sure he knows what 0.01 looks like as well (even I do).
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post #215 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

I saw an 50ST30 at Best Buy and it looked pretty good to me. By no stretch of the imagination did it look bad. Under those conditions I can't say it looked all that better then the other plasma around it. The colors were a bit more vibrant. Maybe a bit more detail. But who knows how the sets were adjusted.

In the end, in in the review no one said it looked bad. Looked good ! Everyone sometimes looks to much into numbers instead of the big picture.......even when it is not seen in person. To each his own though.
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Does anyone know if the 55" version is coming out soon? I noticed Cleveland Plasma isn't carrying it yet.

We will, not in stock.....

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post #216 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 10:51 PM
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Well finally pass the 100 our break in, 102 to be exact. I did however spend the last 4-5 on Tekken and Battlefield Bad Co 2, and I have to say the IR on this baby is amazing. I'm not sure how the pixel orbiter works on this set since it just gives you an option for enable and disable but it seems to be doing it's job. I'm coming from a VT25 which had 373+ hours in and after a gaming session I would run the white bar or slides to help clean off IR. I would pause every now and then to run a blank screen and sometimes the scrolling white bar looking for any hints of IR. I would literally be less than an inch from the screen looking for IR and it's just hard to find. This is with my eyeball setting from avs 709 in Game mode 64 contrast and 65 brightness. I do have to agree as far as skintones, I spent 30 mins messing with contrast, color, color temp and just couldn't get it right. I'll just wait on what else show up from others sets and compare to mines.
Also to add some info on heatf, I have had the set running since day one up til now reaching current 102+ hours. Considering it has no fan it's kept itself cool, the top vents hasn't reached a too hot to touch temperature. So far I'm satisfied for what it does, I do have a little over 3 weeks to decide if I'll keep or upgrade to another set.
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post #217 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 10:52 PM
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At what Hz is the ST30 refreshing during 3D playback? I'm curious what my options are in connecting a 3D capable, 1080p120 graphics card. It seems odd to me that it would use 48Hz for cinematic playback if it is capable of 120Hz, which most 3D displays are.
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post #218 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneumatic View Post

Oh those evil scheming conniving bastards! Such insolence, teaming together to sell TV's like that!

C'mon man, who cares how they do their marketing...looks like best buy gives a 30 day return period so customers have nothing to lose if they don't like what they bought.



Chad also measured 0.005ftL on the 65VT25, so he obviously knows how to take proper readings and has the right equipment. The 0.01 reading was probably due to RB's as that's exactly what they're sposed to rise to. I'm sure he knows what 0.01 looks like as well (even I do).

It's not the readings, it's his meter.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
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post #219 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Azuran View Post

Well finally pass the 100 our break in, 102 to be exact. I did however spend the last 4-5 on Tekken and Battlefield Bad Co 2, and I have to say the IR on this baby is amazing. I'm not sure how the pixel orbiter works on this set since it just gives you an option for enable and disable but it seems to be doing it's job. I'm coming from a VT25 which had 373+ hours in and after a gaming session I would run the white bar or slides to help clean off IR. I would pause every now and then to run a blank screen and sometimes the scrolling white bar looking for any hints of IR. I would literally be less than an inch from the screen looking for IR and it's just hard to find. This is with my eyeball setting from avs 709 in Game mode 64 contrast and 65 brightness. I do have to agree as far as skintones, I spent 30 mins messing with contrast, color, color temp and just couldn't get it right. I'll just wait on what else show up from others sets and compare to mines.
Also to add some info on heatf, I have had the set running since day one up til now reaching current 102+ hours. Considering it has no fan it's kept itself cool, the top vents hasn't reached a too hot to touch temperature. So far I'm satisfied for what it does, I do have a little over 3 weeks to decide if I'll keep or upgrade to another set.

How about some pictures with blu ray movies? Or even a picture of a full black screen.

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post #220 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 11:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

It's not the readings, it's his meter.

But his meter read 0.005 on the VT25....and he's not a noob so he knows what 0.013ftL looks like...
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post #221 of 8449 Old 03-08-2011, 11:50 PM
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I don't have any of the 3D glasses but from Simulated 3D/Apocalypse Storm 3D/Killzone 3 SP 3D demo 24p is grayed out with a setting of 60hz. You are able to fiddle with motion smooth settings though.
After running Band of Brothers, Inception, and Avatar(non3d) Blu rays the skin tone just doesn't give that just right feeling. Although I'm looking for it, I'm sure a regular movie goer wouldn't notice at all. Skin tones are a bit more off from my Time Warner HD box.
Black full screens you'll notice an IR if you do a quick switch from a high contrast static image that's been on screen for a while. This noticeable as I switched from PS3 wallpaper to blu ray loading black screen, which went away after a few seconds after blu ray loaded. I'm just have a tad bit more happy with how this handles IR compared to VT25 I had, though it's still early in it's running hours.
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post #222 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 04:06 AM
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What about the media center on these new 2011 models. Can they play MKV? I think the ST30 manual mentioned it...
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post #223 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotetu View Post

At what Hz is the ST30 refreshing during 3D playback? I'm curious what my options are in connecting a 3D capable, 1080p120 graphics card. It seems odd to me that it would use 48Hz for cinematic playback if it is capable of 120Hz, which most 3D displays are.

Capable of outputting it is not the same as being able to input it. The only sets that can output 120hz @1080P are a very small handful of LCD monitors that use dual-DVI.

Everything else is limited by HDMI and doesn't have the necessary bandwidth. Like every other 3DTV on the planet, they're pretty much limited to 1080P@24 fps (30 if you're lucky) or 720P @ 60fps (120hz). HDMI is physically incapable of inputting 1080P @ 120hz at the moment.
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post #224 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Samsung has a very cozy and underhanded relationship with Best Buy and their managers. Both companies are very disreputable so they're like two peas in a pod. A few of my low voltage customers are former BB and Magnolia employees and the things that they say go on behind closed doors explains a lot about why they're such a big advocate of Samsung products. They've even made TV commercials together.

The salesman at Best Buy did everything he could to get me to buy a Panasonic plasma over a Samsung..
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post #225 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 07:08 AM
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New to site...
Looking to upgrade my 42" Panny plasma 720p from 6 years ago.
Aside from price, any thoughts on purchasing 2011 55"ST30 as opposed to 2010 Sony 55" NX810? I realize the Sony is high-end TV, but I question the picture quality and the side viewing of the Edge LED vs. plasma. My TV room does not have lighting issues. I understand the 3D works better on plasma. However, I'm hearing alot of mixed messages on the St30 on this and other forums. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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post #226 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joppcpa View Post

New to site...
Looking to upgrade my 42" Panny plasma 720p from 6 years ago.
Aside from price, any thoughts on purchasing 2011 55"ST30 as opposed to 2010 Sony 55" NX810? I realize the Sony is high-end TV, but I question the picture quality and the side viewing of the Edge LED vs. plasma. My TV room does not have lighting issues. I understand the 3D works better on plasma. However, I'm hearing alot of mixed messages on the St30 on this and other forums. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

If you are considering a pricier LED based LCD set you should hold out until the higher end plasmas are out and reviewed, including the GT/VT series Panasonics and the higher end Samsung sets.
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post #227 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Spanky View Post

....info comes from a march join date user .. and it doesnt say where he obtainted this info ..

i have my doubts tbh ..

information on the guts of a tv that hasnt even been released yet is some seriously privvy stuff ..

You should do a little checking around before spouting off. VFR has access to inside information that very few here have. Just because he joined that other forum only recently means nothing everybody on that forum knows who he is - and he's been here at AVS for a long time. Search for his posts here at AVS if you want to question his credibility.

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post #228 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

If you are considering a pricier LED based LCD set you should hold out until the higher end plasmas are out and reviewed, including the GT/VT series Panasonics and the higher end Samsung sets.

Thanks - These TVs are both well priced via employee purchase plan. The tough part is as a 2010 model, the NX810 wont be there for long - on close out essentially. The sony is certainly visually appealing with the single glass panel, but I'm fearful of buyers regret once the 2011 pannys are out....
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post #229 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by joppcpa View Post

Thanks - These TVs are both well priced via employee purchase plan. The tough part is as a 2010 model, the NX810 wont be there for long - on close out essentially. The sony is certainly visually appealing with the single glass panel, but I'm fearful of buyers regret once the 2011 pannys are out....

The top end LED sets are very good and still the best choice in very specific (high lighting) environments.

I personally do not think they have caught the PDP in a lot of key areas including motion handling, overall contrast and viewing angle.
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post #230 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 07:43 AM
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Yes, I agree. I think viewing angle is the deciding factor, which leads me to plasmas despite the tempting pricing on NX810. Thanks for your help.
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post #231 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Azuran View Post

Well finally pass the 100 our break in, 102 to be exact. I did however spend the last 4-5 on Tekken and Battlefield Bad Co 2, and I have to say the IR on this baby is amazing. I'm not sure how the pixel orbiter works on this set since it just gives you an option for enable and disable but it seems to be doing it's job. I'm coming from a VT25 which had 373+ hours in and after a gaming session I would run the white bar or slides to help clean off IR. I would pause every now and then to run a blank screen and sometimes the scrolling white bar looking for any hints of IR. I would literally be less than an inch from the screen looking for IR and it's just hard to find. This is with my eyeball setting from avs 709 in Game mode 64 contrast and 65 brightness. I do have to agree as far as skintones, I spent 30 mins messing with contrast, color, color temp and just couldn't get it right. I'll just wait on what else show up from others sets and compare to mines.
Also to add some info on heatf, I have had the set running since day one up til now reaching current 102+ hours. Considering it has no fan it's kept itself cool, the top vents hasn't reached a too hot to touch temperature. So far I'm satisfied for what it does, I do have a little over 3 weeks to decide if I'll keep or upgrade to another set.

How is the phosphor trailing? in specifically, on games running at a lower FPS (you mentioned bad company 2 and killzone) Im very sensitive to trailing, i had to take a samsung plasma back because it was hideous!
Thanks for your review!
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post #232 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by pneumatic View Post

Oh those evil scheming conniving bastards! Such insolence, teaming together to sell TV's like that!

C'mon man, who cares how they do their marketing...looks like best buy gives a 30 day return period so customers have nothing to lose if they don't like what they bought.



Chad also measured 0.005ftL on the 65VT25, so he obviously knows how to take proper readings and has the right equipment. The 0.01 reading was probably due to RB's as that's exactly what they're sposed to rise to. I'm sure he knows what 0.01 looks like as well (even I do).

Chad's meter is sensitive down to .01 fL. VT25's measure .004 out of the box. Neither of his two readings were correct. The sets he measured wouldn't have had enough hours for the blacks to rise that much. I'll wait for a better MLL measurement for the ST30.
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post #233 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mastperf View Post

The salesman at Best Buy did everything he could to get me to buy a Panasonic plasma over a Samsung..

That's pretty much been my BB experience as well.

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post #234 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 11:01 AM
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That's pretty much been my BB experience as well.

That was my experience at literally every BB and HHGregg I ever went to when looking at TV's and debating at the time between the VT25 and the PN58C8000. And yet none of the salespeople I ever talked knew anything about the rising or floating blacks issues with the Panasonics. Then again when I returned the PN58C8000 I bought due to horrendous directional-buzz, they said they'd never heard of that problem either. But I always found it quite odd that these guys just seemed to completely dismiss the Samsungs out of hand when you could see on their display models how bad the video-processing was on the Panny's..
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post #235 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

of course under bright lighting any plasma will look bad, troll.

You know, it really is very amusing to me how some people become so smitten by a brand of product that it will cause them to zero out and attack anyone who dares point out an issue with their precious (in this case,) Panasonic plasma. I guess maybe for the less intelligent folks unable to see past 3 inches from their nose, I should have pointed out exactly why I thought the samsung looked better. Well XxHoosierdaddy (very clever name by the way) I was referring to the processing and in addition the fact that everything on the samsung was not purple like on the Panny. In addition, the color was EXTREMELY dull on the panny and looked just right on the Samsung and for the record, I do not care for Samsung a tiny bit. LED displays usually can't hold a flame to a plasma but in this case, the Samsung spanked the Panny in that department. Oooh I know someone wants to shoot me with a large calibur firearm right now but try to be objective here. I know 100% without a doubt, anyone who saw those 2 sets next to each other in ANY setting no matter how dark or bright would know in their heart which one looked better. Perhaps that particular ST30 was damaged or had issues, I don't know, but what I do know is that it looked like crap especially next to a display that looked 10 times better. I never compare things that are effected by each of the different technologies when 2 different species of sets are next to eachother as I am a logical person. Notice I did not mention a thing about black levels. Black levels can only be truly judged in a dark room unless you are buying the set for PRIMARY bright setting use. So a "Troll", as you put it, I am not, however I think it is quite obvious to most in this thread what you are so I will not waste the time typing it. And for the record, SOME OF THE WORST PROCESSING I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!
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post #236 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 05:52 PM
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I ran Dead Space 2 Demo, Killzone 3 Demo, Medal of Honor, Battlefield Bad Co 2 and it does have phosphor lag. I never noticed until I to looked for it, I did have to raise sensitivity from my norm to 80%+ to notice it very much in the FPS. Dead space it was noticeable when I was running around corners or passing by still objects. I didn't see a green trail like I've seen in other videos so that's why I may have not noticed prior to looking for it.

I'm curious if anyone has experienced a black screen but had light noise on it. This usually happens as ps3 turns on and loads up xmb, I noticed it also on some dark scenes of Killzone demo and Medal of Honor Disc game. Maybe I'm just looking for something wrong, I just didn't notice on VT25.
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post #237 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 07:26 PM
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I guess im just going to have to see a video of the trailing.
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post #238 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

You should do a little checking around before spouting off. VFR has access to inside information that very few here have. Just because he joined that other forum only recently means nothing everybody on that forum knows who he is - and he's been here at AVS for a long time. Search for his posts here at AVS if you want to question his credibility.

-_-

i bet vfr isnt as bothered by my ignorance of his avs status as you are ..

and im certain he doesnt need you defending him ..

perhaps it was hasty .. perhaps i should have "checked" to make sure he wasnt a noob first .. but clearly my instincts were not that off course ..

as neat and tidy as his post is .. its still questionable (much less so now obviously) since he didnt quote his source and considering that those are currently company secrets ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuran View Post

I ran Dead Space 2 Demo, Killzone 3 Demo, Medal of Honor, Battlefield Bad Co 2 and it does have phosphor lag. I never noticed until I to looked for it, I did have to raise sensitivity from my norm to 80%+ to notice it very much in the FPS. Dead space it was noticeable when I was running around corners or passing by still objects. I didn't see a green trail like I've seen in other videos so that's why I may have not noticed prior to looking for it.

I'm curious if anyone has experienced a black screen but had light noise on it. This usually happens as ps3 turns on and loads up xmb, I noticed it also on some dark scenes of Killzone demo and Medal of Honor Disc game. Maybe I'm just looking for something wrong, I just didn't notice on VT25.

i expect it to do the same image doubling effect that last years gt25 did with lower fps material ..

doesnt bother me tho .. its still superior to lcd/led ..

the "light noise" you are experiencing is disturbing to me ..

plz elaborate on exactly what it is youre seeing ..

of you mean like on dark areas there is a "fuzzy" noise then thats dithering ..

from what ive read so far the st30 has a much cleaner look than last years gt25 as far as dithering goes .. but i would expect at least some dithering upon close inspection ..

how noticable is this effect .. and at what distance can you see it ??
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post #239 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pneumatic View Post

But his meter read 0.005 on the VT25....and he's not a noob so he knows what 0.013ftL looks like...

No, I understand but when he measures (at least from my understanding) he's using a black cloth draped over the display. I doubt he does many measurements in a light controlled room. If it's not pitch black in a room, it can be hard to differentiate between .005 and .01 ft/L.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
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post #240 of 8449 Old 03-09-2011, 10:28 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53TdDioc4Po
I saw this same thing with the same test and thought it was normal. Then I saw it again on some full black screens and some images during a Medal of Honor CS.
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