Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxST30 Thread [No Price Talk] - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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She just got delivered for some testing the other day. Ah, the joy of having a thinner designed Panasonic . Nice and thin at about 2".
--More to come.......Including a review from Chad B around midnight tonight

Chad B wrote a reveiw >>> Click Here



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post #2 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 05:29 PM
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what an awesome looking tv.cant waite to see the tests
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post #3 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 05:45 PM
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The plastic film and feature sticker are hiding how the bezel looks. The box is sexy though

Are those some sort of metal hold down inserts above the white handles?

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post #4 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

She just got delivered for some testing the other day. Ah, the joy of having a thinner designed Panasonic . Nice and thin at about 2".
--More to come.......Including a review from Chad B around midnight tonight


Awesome- Chris you know how to excite the customers!

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post #5 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 05:56 PM
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New owner of a 50ST30 here coming from a defective 50VT25 with 373hours in.
Those Gray plastic pieces over the white ones are actually holding another piece of carton that keeps the Base of the TV from moving. I feel the packaging is a bit more solid compared to the VT25.
I'm now testing out Foo Fighters Wembley Blu Ray via PS3, so far Picture is as good as I when I first saw a non calibrated VT25. The blacks are deep, picture is sharp/clear, 60hz is with no flicker so far. The motion smooth setting gives that soap opera effect LEDs give off. A Home Theater is something I highly recommend, the VT25 spoiled me in this area which is why I never upgraded. Well that's all that comes to mind, back to testing.
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post #6 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 07:04 PM
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I wonder if I should sell my S2 now and upgrade to an ST30, decisions decisions... Guess the review will help with that decision!
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post #7 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 07:06 PM
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The AR filter looks just like the VT25 in that picture.
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post #8 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreventerWind View Post

I wonder if I should sell my S2 now and upgrade to an ST30, decisions decisions... Guess the review will help with that decision!

ST30 will kick the S2 squarely in the ass.
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post #9 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 08:10 PM
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Panasonic TC-P50ST30

The new ST30 series is Panasonic’s reasonably priced, super slim 3D plasma. When Cleveland Plasma was able to get one in for review, I was eager to see the latest high performance plasma from a brand that I have a great deal of respect for.
Chris had a 50ST30 breaking in right beside it’s more expensive brother, the 50VT25. I was pleasantly surprised at the ST30’s streamlined profile; not only is the thickness slashed, but the bezel is nice and trim as well.
The ST30 picks up what I would consider to be an average amount of glare for a plasma; in a moderately lit room, reflections are inevitable but not overly distracting. It’s screen does a commendable job of staying dark with a bit of sunlight in the room, so with a little effort it’s black levels won’t run for cover during the day. However, it’s still not a great match for super bright rooms because it’s light output is moderate compared to many plasmas.

Before calibration:

I began my time with ST30 in it’s most accurate picture mode, Cinema. Standard and Vivid mode looked very unnatural. Other than switching the picture mode, nothing else in the ST30’s picture adjustments was changed for this first round of viewing. 1080i and 1080P/24 HDMI sources were tested.
First up was my trusty DVE restaurant scene. As the picture appeared and the carrots and other colorful food panned across the screen, I initially noticed that the carrots looked somewhat flat and lacking in vibrancy. Panning was smooth, maybe too smooth; but the image looked detailed and clean. Dark objects looked neutral and easily visible; they did not sink down into a black blob as on some TVs. The overall presentation was pleasing, if a bit flat, until the people came into view. At that moment, I saw that the ST30 managed to make flesh tones look a bit pale and purplish at the same time.
After moving on to some other material, I saw some strange shimmering and blockiness in the buildings during the opening seconds of The Dark Knight. These artifacts were distracting, but fortunately they did not last long. Blacks and contrast looked outstanding in moderate ambient light. The picture was grain free, and I was once again impressed with the natural looking shadow details. However, flesh tones didn’t look realistic, and colors like the yellow school bus looked a little pale and muted.

Calibration:

Cinema mode calibrated well, with good overall performance. I noticed strong, full resolution at all scan rates, though the light output was more limited than I expected. I was able to get about 36-37 fL of light output with small measurement windows, which is a good amount for dark rooms. As with some other Panasonic plasmas, shadow detail was slightly exaggerated. Thankfully, that is greatly preferable to the opposite presentation of shadow detail being too dark.
Since light output in Cinema mode would be too low for a bright room, I also calibrated Custom mode to use as a Day mode. Custom has a great variety of advanced adjustments in the user menu. I was able to get slightly more light output from Custom, and combined with the lower gamma, Custom appeared to be a decent choice in situations where Cinema looks too dark. Custom’s Panel Brightness adjustment allows an even brighter picture, though color decoding becomes nonlinear with signal level at the mid and high positions. Only the low setting appeared to allow accurate color, with mid and high making flesh tones look beet red. The picture also had noticeable pumping and instability at the high setting. Because the low Panel Brightness setting limits the light output, Custom ended up being only a little brighter than Cinema.
There was a selection for Motion Smoother on ST30; it was on weak (low) by default. Turning it off made pans look much more realistic and eliminated the shimmering/blocking artifacts. With a 1080P/24 input and Motion Smoother turned off, pans and motion appeared very similar to that of the LG PK550 plasma; in other words, they looked great!
The black level, measured with a Milori Trichromat-1 meter profiled off an i1Pro Spectro, and with a black blanket blocking any ambient light, measured .0135 fL at the time of the review. While following up a few days later, I got a lower number. I was pleasantly surprised that the black level measured exactly the same with the modified ANSI contrast ratio measurement; that indicates very stable blacks. The modified ANSI contrast resulted in a good measurement of 1981:1.
After switching to my demo material, I was surprised to see that flesh tones still did not look very realistic, since the measurements did not indicate any unusual problems. Though they were improved compared to the out of the box settings, I ended up having to make a fairly strong tint adjustment toward green to eliminate the pesky purplish look. With the final tweak complete, it was time to spend some serious time with the Blu Ray player.


After calibration:

The ST30 looked very good with any demo material I threw it’s way. By this time, the sun had set, and the room was quite dark. The images had good contrast, and there was now a good sense of depth. I looked for signs of floating blacks and the dirty screen effect and found nothing. The image was stable and clean, with no contouring. Shadow detail looked neutral and easily visible. The image was open and easy on the eyes, with pure whites. If anything, the overall presentation leaned a bit toward the cool side. Color was good, though not terribly vibrant, in most scenes. However, depending on scene lighting, I would sometimes get a feeling that flesh tones were a little greenish or a little violet. Yellows still appeared muted, though only by a miniscule degree.

Panasonic TC-P50VT25 (FW 3.5) vs. Panasonic TC-P50ST30

Of course, with a VT25 sitting right beside the ST30, I made the inevitable comparison both before and after calibration. The displays were fed by a high quality HDMI distribution amplifier.
Moderate room lighting
Glare: similar, but VT25’s glare is a little more filtered/subdued and has a slightly more purple tint.
Screen washout (power off): very close, but ST30’s screen remains slightly darker.
Buzzing: slightly more audible from VT25, though not enough to be concerned about.
Source: 1080i and 1080P/24 from DVE and The Dark Knight Blu Rays.

Before calibration: VT25 THX mode, ST30 Cinema mode, all factory default settings for chosen mode

DVE restaurant 1080i: VT25 color more vibrant; carrots look more real on VT25. Pans and movement much more fluid on ST30, possibly too smooth; VT25 pans look choppy in comparison. Fleshtones too purplish on ST30, and a little too ruddy on VT25; VT25 looks more pleasant and natural with fleshtones. VT25 has slightly more pop and depth in this mostly bright scene. Whites look a little bluish on VT25, a little more correct on ST30. VT25 has stronger overall color. ST30 has slightly more shadow detail; dark objects in the picture are slightly more visible and defined. Overall preference for VT25 because of it’s better fleshtones and vibrancy.
The Dark Knight 1080i: ST30 has some strange, very brief shimmering panning artifacts in buildings during opening scene. Pans again look choppier on VT25. Dark objects look more neutral on ST30; slightly purplish on VT25. VT25 had more depth and pop, and colors look much more exciting, though slightly exaggerated. Most colors are more realistic and natural on VT25 except for very dark objects, whose color looks more neutral on ST30. Yellow school bus looks slightly pale on ST30. Blacks and contrast look a bit better on the ST30, most likely because it’s screen washes out slightly less in moderate room light.
DVE montage 1080i: again some shimmering movement artifacts in ST30, even though it’s pans look smoother overall than the VT25. Slight false contouring visible in clouds on VT25; looks like white clouds have a slight green “layer”, and subtle gradiations in bright clouds have a layered look on the VT25. Only shows up in certain scenes; not all scenes with clouds. ST30 is free of this artifact.
DVE restaurant 1080P/24: most comments for 1080i apply. Pans look a little too smooth on ST30. Pans look more choppy on VT25, but more like film. VT25 bright objects look slightly highlighted, though overall it’s depth, vibrancy, and fleshtones are superior.
The Dark Knight 1080P/24: most comments for 1080i apply. Again occasional shimmering and blocky spurts in ST30, visible in panned buildings. ST30 has a mild “soap opera” look, with pans looking a little too smoothed out; not as bad as a typical LCD, but enough to take away some of the feel of film. Overall, VT25 looks far more natural.


After calibration (VT25 THX 96Hz, ST30 cinema, both calibrated to 36 fL, room mostly dark):

There is a selection for motion smoother on ST30; it was on weak. Turning it off eliminates soap opera effect and shimmering/blocking artifacts. Interestingly, motion is still slightly smoother with 1080P/24 on ST30 than on VT25 with 96Hz mode on. Motion with 1080i is similar.
Restaurant 1080P/24 (Blu Ray): Colors now close, but VT25 is still a bit richer and the ST30’s color looks a little less vibrant. Shadow detail looked slightly more neutral toned on ST30. However, the ST30’s color was a bit variable; guy on left looked a little yellowish, while woman on right did not look yellow enough. Very slight. Overall preference for VT25 due to slightly more natural color.
Montage 1080P/24 (Blu Ray): Clouds look a tiny bit discolored at times on VT25. Sometimes violet, sometimes I see a greenish false contour. Contouring was most noticeable on scene with helicopter in midair with clouds on right and building on left. ST30’s fleshtones lack a bit of yellow compared to VT25. Blacks are slightly darker on VT25. Overall preference is a toss-up. Slightly prefer fleshtones and blacks on VT25, but prefer shadow detail and more natural clouds/whites on ST30.
Dark Knight 1080P/24 (Blu Ray): Slightly more earthy-toned presentation from VT25. Remarkably similar overall, with just a tiny edge in shadow detail for the ST30. Shadow detail a tiny bit bluish on VT25. VT25 appears just a bit brighter at times- probably due to different gamma. More evidence of color and fleshtone variability on ST30- some faces in certain scenes look more violet, and some look more yellowish. Blacks slightly darker on VT25. Overall slight preference for VT25.

Overall I was happy with the ST30, especially considering how well it compared with the excellent VT25. It surprised me that these two sets looked much more alike than different, with mostly subtle differences dominating my viewing notes. Thanks Panasonic!

 

Panasonic 50ST30 Cinema mode3.pdf 202.568359375k . file

 

Panasonic 50ST30 Custom (day) mode3.pdf 202.66796875k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Panasonic 50ST30 Custom (day) mode3.pdf (202.7 KB, 117 views)
File Type: pdf Panasonic 50ST30 Cinema mode3.pdf (202.6 KB, 157 views)

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post #10 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 08:45 PM
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Thanks Chad!

Will be very interesting to see a ST30 vs. a GT 30. Will the black levels improve ? the colors? Will THX make that much difference? Hmm...
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post #11 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 08:46 PM
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Thank you Chad!
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post #12 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 08:49 PM
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So Black Levels are WORSE compared to the S2 and G25? This is a huge surprise.
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post #13 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 08:53 PM
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Thanks Chad, good review. Did the lack of ISF mode in the ST model affect the quality of calibration you were able to do on the set? I noticed you said flesh tones were a bit yellow and other colors were a bit flat, would having the ISF mode fix this issue? Originally I was debating between the ST or the GT but since they don't have the ISF mode, i'm more leaning towards the VT mode.
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post #14 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 09:02 PM
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Based on the graphs, the lack of ISF mode didn't seem to hinder. Cinema surprised me, really dang decent chart.

I am surprised about the black level too honestly. I guess we will have to see what the GT and VT ends up doing.
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post #15 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutdotnet View Post

Thank you Chad!

Lolz, me too. I just got mine yesterday!
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post #16 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 09:29 PM
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They have not fixed the poor gamma problem in the custom pro mode either. Why have selectable gamma when it tracks the way it does? If the GT and ST have the same panel what does that say for th GT? The GT does have THX so that is a plus.

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post #17 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 09:38 PM
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But, Don, the gamut in the Cinema mode is terrific. There are some of us who don't use Custom.

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post #18 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayleneasod View Post

Thanks Chad!

Will be very interesting to see a ST30 vs. a GT 30. Will the black levels improve ? the colors? Will THX make that much difference? Hmm...

ST and GT are the same exact panel so there won't be a difference. Either Chad's measurement isn't accurate or we've been seriously misled about the performance of these panels. .013 fL is a TERRIBLE black level and is on par with 2007 Panasonics.
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post #19 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

But, Don, the gamut in the Cinema mode is terrific. There are some of us who don't use Custom.

Larry

Yes the gamut "looks" good however Chad did say the colors were a bit off. Yellowish and purplish in spots. THere are those that will use custom mode for daytime viewing. Not everyone will use just the cinema mode on this display as light output is on the low side. I know you like your light ouput in the high 20's.

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post #20 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Prestige View Post

.013 fL is a TERRIBLE black level and is on par with 2007 Panasonics.

The black level's not terrible.

I found the difference in visible black level between it and the 50VT25 to be slight.

Noticeable in a totally dark room? Easily, with a blank screen, both sets sitting side by side. Not very noticeable at all with any picture content on the screen, though.

Think about it... If the G25 has blacks at .0083, but the blacks float (rise) with any pic content on the screen; and the ST30's black is rock solid, is there going to be much difference?

The ST30's ANSI contrast measured higher than the G25's...

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post #21 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 11:04 PM
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I think there are going to be quite a few people "disappointed" by the outcome. Based on what you have said, I personally don't think they should be. But there were quite a few that thought that since the ST/GT/VT all share the same panel. The ST will be better than the current VT. And "VERY LOW" black levels.

Regardless, does sound like a great TV for the money.

Now need to decide what to suggest to a friend of mine. Either get a GT25 for a very good price, or spend a bit more for the ST..... hmmmm.
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post #22 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 11:31 PM
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The ANSI is up about 700 from the S2 that Chad measured last year. Still, he was measuring better ANSI performance with a 5 series Samsung, but hey...

Colors seem to calibrate better and there's a gamma that averaged over 2.2

Wish there had been a G25 side by side, as well.

Thanks for the review, Chad.

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post #23 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutdotnet View Post

But there were quite a few that thought that since the ST/GT/VT all share the same panel. The ST will be better than the current VT. And "VERY LOW" black levels.

Thanks, that helps me understand the outcry here. While I don't think I was totally out of touch, I make a point not to get caught up in the pre-release hype or even other reviews... Trying to minimize any bias or preconceived ideas.
I wasn't aware of all the expectations.

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post #24 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 11:46 PM
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I foresee closeout 2010 GT/VT's being a hot commodity if this is any indication of the GT30/VT30. Color is good, everything else almost manages to be a step back from prior model years. Pretty amazing (not in a good way) this is what a mid range plasma (from the supposed industry leader) produces in 2011. I say that because didn't the G20/25 debut at the same MSRP with the better units measuring 0.007fL in addition to a rock solid THX mode? Maybe they have baked the MLL rise into the box now?
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post #25 of 8449 Old 03-04-2011, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Thanks, that helps me understand the outcry here. While I don't think I was totally out of touch, I make a point not to get caught up in the pre-release hype or even other reviews... Trying to minimize any bias or preconceived ideas.
I wasn't aware of all the expectations.

No problem Chad. I honestly don't get it either. This is the "bottom tier" 3D set from Panasonic. And it sounded like it really is a dang good TV. No floating blacks, maybe they have even taken care of the black rise. And a respectable cinema mode, and a pretty good starting price point.

I do hope for the sake of the Panasonic fan boys (I am one), that the GT and even more so the VT come out swinging. We will just have to wait and see.
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post #26 of 8449 Old 03-05-2011, 03:16 AM
 
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Chad reviews are trustworthy. I have a theory that they are shipping them "already risen".


They supposedly have the "Infinite Black" of the VT25, right?

Well the Vt25 measured .004 mll, risings will triple at the end. So it will end up at .012-.013, which is right exactly in the ballpark of what Chad measured. It all makes sense to me.


I wonder if the VT30 will ship pre-risen and be at .006 mll (3x the expected black level). Just like the ST30?
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post #27 of 8449 Old 03-05-2011, 04:05 AM
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I'm glad to hear there were no reports of floating blacks. a very Big + for me. And if the black levels are baked in at a stable level from the get go than they're not all that bad.

BTW, thanks for the review Chad.
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post #28 of 8449 Old 03-05-2011, 06:24 AM
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Wow it isn't taking long for fanboys to start making excuses. So is it already assumed that this TERRIBLE black level (yes, a black level worse than the S2 is terrible) is a stable "post rise" level? And that there are no floating blacks? So basically Panasonic's best efforts on this model for 2011...assuming the above...is to have blacks on par with last year's LGPK550 and worse than last year's Samsung C550? Sorry, there is no positive spin that can be put on that. These results are laughable. Then again, the only model we should really be concerned about is the VT30 as that is the only model they have 96hz on, which will be used to compare apples to apples with the Samsungs and LGs (3:3).

I really hope that VT has better, stable blacks lower than last year or all the money in the world won't be able to justify CNET from awarding them top dog this year. I want the best this year and that is Panny's only hope. LOL, already heard the new LG are mirrors and blacks aren't that much improved....next thing you hear the CS will be faulty on Sammies and we will all be saying "wait till next year" or "OLED!!!".
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post #29 of 8449 Old 03-05-2011, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Prestige View Post

ST and GT are the same exact panel so there won't be a difference. Either Chad's measurement isn't accurate or we've been seriously misled about the performance of these panels. .013 fL is a TERRIBLE black level and is on par with 2007 Panasonics.

There is no ST30 black level measurement's in his PDF's. So where are you pulling .013fL from?

-SiGGy
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post #30 of 8449 Old 03-05-2011, 07:25 AM
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Hey
I ordered a 2011 P50S30 last night at BB, its supposed to be here on the 10th. I mainly just watch sports, dont even own a bluray player and rarely watch movies. Im coming from a samsung 50 plasma 2008 model 720p (was stolen) Should I upgrade to the ST ? Im not really concerned about the 3d aspect since I dont want to sit in my living room with glasses on and Im sure my kids would break them anyway...... Any Suggestions?
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Panasonic Viera Tc P60st30 60 Inch 1080p 600 Hz 3d Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P50st30 50 Inch 1080p 3d Plasma Hdtv
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