Official Samsung 2011 PNxxD8000 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:13 AM
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I've seen it mentioned a few times that the 7000 and 8000s are coming with vouchers for glasses.

Is this confirmed?
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post #62 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrw2 View Post

Thanks for the review!

Just one question. To me brightness is a problem in the past 3D sets.

And about this Samsung? Brigthness it's higher than ST30 or Samsung 2010 models? PN50C7000 you found 45 fL but you comentted that can go higher.

"I calibrated peak white to match 2 other plasmas nearby to facilitate a three way comparison at around 45-47 fL, though it could have easily gone higher. "

Yes, brightness (light output) is higher on this than on the ST30, at least if comparing both sets with optimal calibrations. It is probably about the same or a little better than the C7000.
This is in 2D mode; I didn't review 3D mode, which is always less bright.

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post #63 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:16 AM
 
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Chad, when you measured .026 Mll on that C7000, was cinema smooth enabled?

Onto the D8000...

high blacks and cinema smooth not fixed? The ST30 is measuring .008 mll, this d8000 measured double that. So the ST30 blacks are 2x as dark correct?

I will wait to see you review the larger sizes before my final judgement.

Thanks for the review Chad.
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post #64 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

I know what you're trying to say that black levels should not be the main focus of the review but the fact that Samsung claimed .004 black levels and a fix for the CS bug has somewhat spoiled me

I was expecting close to 0.004 too. I thought last year's 50" C8000 measured in the 0.012 to 0.014 range, close to what a VT25 was supposed to after rising supposedly. Guess my memory isn't working well.

Quite disappointed to hear of the 0.0165 level with this year's model. Most of my watching is in the dark so I don't take comfort in its performance with ambient lighting.
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post #65 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:22 AM
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I posted this in the lineup thread but not this one so here goes. Will maybe the 7000 stand work on the 8000??? Probably not but that may be a fix for some; myself included.
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post #66 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maygit View Post

virtually every tv you buy nowadays does not have the base attached.

Samsungs largest screens have the stand already attached as with last years 63C8000.
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post #67 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Yes, brightness (light output) is higher on this than on the ST30, at least if comparing both sets with optimal calibrations. It is probably about the same or a little better than the C7000.
This is in 2D mode; I didn't review 3D mode, which is always less bright.

Thanks!

If you could, please, test the 64" D7000 model. It's important since you alert that the bigger models have much better black. Will give us a better idea of what these models can offer. 64" is my target...
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post #68 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:28 AM
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lets wait for d-nice blacklevel measurements... he has a better, more accurate meter...

for comparasion: chad b´s measurement on the ST30 was 0.0135 fl
D-nice´s measurement on the ST30 was 0.0082 fl

So, expect the samsung to have more or less the same blacklevel the ST30 has.
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post #69 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david437 View Post

lets wait for d-nice blacklevel measurements... he has a better, more accurate meter...

for comparasion: chad b´s measurement on the ST30 was 0.0135 fl
D-nice´s measurement on the ST30 was 0.0082 fl

So, expect the samsung to have more or less the same blacklevel the ST30 has.


Um Chad said he was going to re-measure, he thinks it running non-stop might have effected the measurement. The meter Chad used is perfectly fine for these tvs.
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post #70 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:37 AM
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Can anybody comment on the sound quality of the audio? Is it acceptable for normal TV use?
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post #71 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v0yce View Post

I've seen it mentioned a few times that the 7000 and 8000s are coming with vouchers for glasses.

Is this confirmed?

One person said that besides the free starter kit there was a voucher in the box (TV box) that is for an additonal 2 pairs of glasses. If so, that is a major plus.
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post #72 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david437 View Post

lets wait for d-nice blacklevel measurements... he has a better, more accurate meter...

for comparasion: chad b´s measurement on the ST30 was 0.0135 fl
D-nice´s measurement on the ST30 was 0.0082 fl

So, expect the samsung to have more or less the same blacklevel the ST30 has.

Regardless of what you think of Chad's meter, this fact remains: CinemaSmooth still increases the black level of the Samsung Plasmas. That's a huge disappointment.
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post #73 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobl3 View Post

Um Chad said he was going to re-measure, he thinks it running non-stop might have effected the measurement. The meter Chad used is perfectly fine for these tvs.

could be, lets just wait until more measurements are avaible before judging.
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post #74 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 09:12 AM
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That's a pretty lousy black level and it still rises with CS amazingly. Samsung claimed they achieved the same MLL as the VT25.

I wouldn't expect a miraculous reduction with the bigger sizes either. Last year the 50" models were .009-.01 and the bigger sizes around .007-.008. It was a very small difference.
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post #75 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Again the bigger units had a lower black level last year for whatever reason. We will see how the bigger sets turn out. They may indeed be at the .004 rating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david437 View Post

lets wait for d-nice blacklevel measurements... he has a better, more accurate meter...

Hold the phone. Has an independent test been done on Chads meter VS D-Nice's meter? In the end we will see what others get on the exact PN51D8000 model, as mentioned. Keep in mind the bigger units got better readings last year. Just because Chad came up with a different measurment on the ST30, he has a bad meter? Could have been as simple as unit variation. In the end one would have to test about 10 units, then divid it all out to come up with an average, as there will always be unit variation. That is why taking someone setting and putting them in another set does not always work.

To each his own though

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post #76 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 09:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveland plasma View Post

again the bigger units had a lower black level last year for whatever reason. We will see how the bigger sets turn out. They may indeed be at the .004 rating.

Hold the phone here. Has an independent test been done on chads meter vs d-nice's meter? No one ever complained about chads meter before. In the end we will see what others get on the exact pn51d8000 model, as the bigger units got better readings last year. Then we will know...... Just because chad came up with a different measurment on the st30, he has a bad meter? Could have been as simple as unit variation.

If anyone cares to send chad a new meter he will sure test it out, they are about $7k new

7k?!?!?!?
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post #77 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^Yep. Keep in mind when a calibrator is doing up a fresh unit there is no need to measure black level. That is for review purposes only for the most part.

Heck in the end, one could by a new meter and who's to say that it is any good, lol.

A review is a matter or opinion in the end. One has to get out there and deside for themselfs what the best fit is .......

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post #78 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 09:53 AM
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one of most important things to remember is that ChadB is honest about his readings.

I look forward to more of his honest and accurate reviews!
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post #79 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:05 AM
 
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What I don't understand is, the 50" C8000 measured at .009-.01 among many calibrators, yet the 51" D8000 measures .016? SO worse?
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post #80 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:09 AM
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The Klein K-10 (about $7000 and the meter D-Nice uses) is more accurate testing low black levels. But as Chris said, black level measurement doesn't normally play a role in TV calibration, which is what I do for a living. I do black level measurements when requested by the customer, but it is for their amusement or educational purposes only; it doesn't effect the calibration. From what I've read from people who have used and tested them, the Klein and the i!Pro are neck and neck accuracy wise for normal calibration duty. I know 'cause I've researched it, wanting one myself; but I do the reviews on a volunteer basis, so...
But regardless, at the black levels we're talking about with the D8000, the C5 has no trouble giving an accurate black reading.

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post #81 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldensunbluesky View Post

I was expecting close to 0.004 too. I thought last year's 50" C8000 measured in the 0.012 to 0.014 range, close to what a VT25 was supposed to after rising supposedly. Guess my memory isn't working well.

Quite disappointed to hear of the 0.0165 level with this year's model. Most of my watching is in the dark so I don't take comfort in its performance with ambient lighting.

Measurements on the 63C8000 by some were as low as .007. Maybe they will get the D8000 to .004, maybe not.
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post #82 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Nobl3 View Post

Awesome! I suppose Chad will review? We'll finally get to see if this baby matches 8G Kuro blacks

Don't count on it.
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post #83 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

You needed Cnet to tell you that?

The top-of-the-line TV is rarely, if ever, the best value; that should be common sense.

The VT30 won't be the best value compared to the GT30 and ST30; (it remains to be seen, which of the latter two will be best value.)

Watch out. You may receive a warning for insulting a poster.
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post #84 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Actually this has never been tested and is a job for myth busters ! We actually will be doing this in the future, but the test will take a while to run.

Thank you very much. I said the same thing but no one believed me. May be they will believe you.
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post #85 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:49 AM
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so the non-professionals who received their D8000/D7000 and claimed no Cinema Smooth black rise and fabulous black levels was more of a placebo effect or wishful thinking?...I was getting all psyched up myself...now it's back to the drawing board...guess I'm going to have to wait for the VT30 and LG LW9500/7700 to see if they can wow me

I can see the larger Samsung models having improved blacks levels but I'm not sure if it can drop that much
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post #86 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

The Klein K-10 (about $7000 and the meter D-Nice uses) is more accurate testing low black levels. But as Chris said, black level measurement doesn't normally play a role in TV calibration, which is what I do for a living. I do black level measurements when requested by the customer, but it is for their amusement or educational purposes only; it doesn't effect the calibration. From what I've read from people who have used and tested them, the Klein and the i!Pro are neck and neck accuracy wise for normal calibration duty. I know 'cause I've researched it, wanting one myself; but I do the reviews on a volunteer basis, so...
But regardless, at the black levels we're talking about with the D8000, the C5 has no trouble giving an accurate black reading.

Chad, I have always respected your integrity on these threads. What is obvious is that some posters are disenchanted with your findings and are looking for excuses to criticize your equipment and/or methodology. I told them not to expect miraculous improvements in 2D picture quality. But again, no one believed me.
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post #87 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:52 AM
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I'm sure Chad's meter and readings are fine (with slight variation)...seems like people just want the TV to have better black levels and are criticizing his equipment versus just dealing with the fact that maybe Samsung has not met their .004 claims this year...same people were criticizing him when his ST30 black levels were higher then anticipated
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post #88 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

The Klein K-10 (about $7000 and the meter D-Nice uses) is more accurate testing low black levels. But as Chris said, black level measurement doesn't normally play a role in TV calibration, which is what I do for a living. I do black level measurements when requested by the customer, but it is for their amusement or educational purposes only; it doesn't effect the calibration. From what I've read from people who have used and tested them, the Klein and the i!Pro are neck and neck accuracy wise for normal calibration duty. I know 'cause I've researched it, wanting one myself; but I do the reviews on a volunteer basis, so...
But regardless, at the black levels we're talking about with the D8000, the C5 has no trouble giving an accurate black reading.

From what i read it seems that this TV is very good. I am with you on this whole black level stuff. You could have said that this TV calibrates better than any other tv and that it has pefect color accuracy and gamma and people would still look away and just read the black level. It really only seems to be on this site that people care so much about black levels. I mean just look how many people viewed and posted on the Blacks Doubling thread.

PSN: Biggsmooth
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post #89 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 11:00 AM
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Thanks for the review, Chad. Do you guys have plans to have a look at the 59 or 64 as well?

Hopefully, I can get my picture settings to come close to that color accuracy.
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post #90 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 11:21 AM
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Can everyone please step away from the ledge? Who cares if the black level is not quite as low as you were hoping? The picture quality is fantastic, the TV looks great, costs less than Panasonic, probably has no buzz this year, and you guys still want to complain and talk about 'Oh, I guess I have to go buy a Panasonic now?"

The guy who posted his opinion on the black level with and without CS engaged, saying they looked identical, is probably RIGHT...they probably do look identical...to most of us. If he didn't notice it, most people won't, either.

Is it really worth not buying an otherwise fabulous TV just because the black level is slightly higher than a competing model? A competing model with a host of other issues?
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