Official Samsung 2011 PNxxD8000 Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldensunbluesky View Post

I can confirm that the pinkness is due to ageing of the pixels. The Samsung C8000 panels do not start out being pink. One forum member used his Samsung (can't remember which model) in 4:3 mode (without vertical grey bars) for a couple of years to watch free-to-air SD broadcasts. After those few years of abuse, his TV (when displaying a white or grey screen) now shows a strong pink bias covering the 4:3 areas of the screen and a reasonably well-balanced white/grey for the side bars.

Really, that sounds interesting, seeing as the C8000 has only been on the market for less than a year, 10.75 mos. to be more specific.

You must be thinking of the '09 B800 series; IIRC, they had the pink color shift problem; (I think the '08s had it too, I can't remember.)

I don't recall a single '10 C8000/7000/6500 mentioning a pink shift. I followed the Samsungs closely for quite a while in '10; if it was, indeed, talked about on AVS, if must've been a rare problem, if it existed.
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post #122 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 06:35 PM
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Is the line bleed better than the 7000 series? I have a store credit for a faulty 63" C series, waiting on the new models to surface to either pick up the plasma or the LCD. Line bleed is a big issue for me, as I do use a HTPC here and there for browsing internet and found the 7000 series lacking in this department.

Can anyone post a pic of some line bleed test screens? Pretty please
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post #123 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v0yce View Post

I've seen it mentioned a few times that the 7000 and 8000s are coming with vouchers for glasses.

Is this confirmed?

I picked up a PN59D8000 from Best Buy today and there is no voucher in the box for glasses.

If anybody is interested, Best Buy warehouse in Woodridge IL had approximately 65 units of this TV earlier today.
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post #124 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 06:55 PM
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so what are the chances that Samsung fixes the Cinema Smooth black level rise issue just on larger sized models?...is that even possible or just wishful thinking on my part?
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post #125 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I do black level measurements when requested by the customer, but it is for their amusement or educational purposes only; it doesn't effect the calibration.

It affects gammacalibration of the lowest IREs or am I mistaken?

And, I have to repeat my question Chad: How is it with the PWM-Noise near black when you take it versus the ST30?

I sit very close to the TV and so the real resolution and definition near black is important to me.

EDIT: The finer the PWM-noise near black the better.

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post #126 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneumatic View Post

Fair points

I probably should have been more clear about 2.2 only being wrong for dim lighting conditions. I just assumed that most of us calibrate for dim lighting conditions since that is the environment plasma is recommended for, and that which most of us would put more preference towards.

What gammasetting do you use?

I have to admit, that I use 2.22 in a pitch dark room wth my LG PK350 at the moment.

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post #127 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferran586 View Post

Chad,

I know you also just re-read the ST30 and got around the same that D-Nice did. Could the same have happened in this situation or did you already take those precautions? I am no way trying to second guess you.

No problem. Yes, I took those precautions on this one.

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post #128 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnxv6 View Post

Chad, Is there an improvement with the motion judder cancelor? I read somewhere that they were using a different chipset.

That is hard to say. I don't remember a lot about how it looked on the C7000/8000 because I did not use it much because of the MLL bug and the color bug those models have with 1080P/24 YCbCr input.
Going by memory rather than direct comparison, it didn't look quite as smooth as some others like an LG PK550 or a Panny V10. But whether that's good or not will be up to the individual. It did not seem to have any problems in it's operation as far as I could tell besides the MLL increase, which was subtle.

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post #129 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

59" and 64" are going to be nasty if they get the MLL down to 0.008fL or lower and mirror that performance. The post calibration charts are crazy good in everything else, but honestly, 0.0165fL is laughable for a $2300 50" panel in 2011. Did you mess with a D550 while you were there Chad?

No, just an LG 60PZ550 and a Samsung UN46D8000, both of whose reviews will be coming soon.

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post #130 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 07:55 PM
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hopefully Chad can get his hands on a 59" or 64" D8000/D7000 and post a review...buying a new TV these days is like a never ending homework assignment
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post #131 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

It affects gammacalibration of the lowest IREs or am I mistaken?

And, I have to repeat my question Chad: How is it with the PWM-Noise near black when you take it versus the ST30?

I sit very close to the TV and so the real resolution and definition near black is important to me.

EDIT: The finer the PWM-noise near black the better.

I think there was a long debate over that when CalMAN Pro was being developed... Black level compensation is what the discussion revolved around. I have my opinion on the subject, which you can probably guess, but it's too lengthy and involved for me to get into here and now.

Unfortunately I did not rememeber to specifically check for PWM noise near black; but from what I remember of how my pluge patterns looked, the ST30 was superior in that department.

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post #132 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

What gammasetting do you use?

I have to admit, that I use 2.22 in a pitch dark room wth my LG PK350 at the moment.

I usually like 2.22 also, though on some TVs (Mits DLP RPTVs and Samsung LED LCDs) and in some lighting conditions I like a stronger number like 2.4.

Sometimes maximum light output can play a factor. If you have, say, a front projector with an oversized screen or an aging bulb (this happens a lot in real life) that can only achieve 8 fL of light output, a gamma of 2.4 makes the mid tones darker than a gamma of 2.22 and will compound the light output issue.

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post #133 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

No, just an LG 60PZ550 and a Samsung UN46D8000, both of whose reviews will be coming soon.

Any chance you'll be seeing the 550 for review? No interest in the web apps or slim factor. Curious if the black filter makes a difference and trying to figure out if the 7000/8000 is worth the money over the 550 if just picture attributes are considered.
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post #134 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Johnson View Post

Thank you very much. I said the same thing but no one believed me. May be they will believe you.

When doing a calibration on a new set. Chris will run a break in dvd before Chad arrives before calibrating. This is opposite of what YOU have been saying.
Calibrating after 100 hours or so will let you know if you bought a Lemmon or not. Don't want to pay for a calibration and then find out your set has issues.
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post #135 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBrandon View Post

Any chance you'll be seeing the 550 for review? No interest in the web apps or slim factor. Curious if the black filter makes a difference and trying to figure out if the 7000/8000 is worth the money over the 550 if just picture attributes are considered.

Chris handles that side of things more so than me. I would be happy to do it if we can arrange it.

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post #136 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 09:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

What gammasetting do you use?

I have to admit, that I use 2.22 in a pitch dark room wth my LG PK350 at the moment.

Please don't do that it makes me cringe

I replied to your PM but for anyone else wondering about the subject, 2.4 is what the majority of studio reference monitors use when mastering video content in dim lighting conditions. To see the image as intended you must use 2.4, no exception!

Also, human perception of brightness = Y^0.42, which translates to a display gamma of 2.38 (I round it up to 2.4).

These points cannot be argued with and yet all calibrators continue to use 2.2....anyway just putting the facts out there.
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post #137 of 5104 Old 03-18-2011, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBrandon View Post

Any chance you'll be seeing the 550 for review? No interest in the web apps or slim factor. Curious if the black filter makes a difference and trying to figure out if the 7000/8000 is worth the money over the 550 if just picture attributes are considered.

I'd really like to see how the 550 stacks up to the 8000 as well.
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post #138 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

That is hard to say. I don't remember a lot about how it looked on the C7000/8000 because I did not use it much because of the MLL bug and the color bug those models have with 1080P/24 YCbCr input.
Going by memory rather than direct comparison, it didn't look quite as smooth as some others like an LG PK550 or a Panny V10. But whether that's good or not will be up to the individual. It did not seem to have any problems in it's operation as far as I could tell besides the MLL increase, which was subtle.

Where can you or how do you enable the MJC on the D7000 and D8000 sets?
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post #139 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 07:07 AM
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Can a universal remote be used with these TVs or do they only work with Bluetooth remotes? Can somebody with access to one please give it a try? Thanks!
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post #140 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 07:25 AM
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Nothing against Chad, but this is the first set of a new model. With who knows what firmware.

I'll wait and see what happens over the next month or so before damning this set.

Personally, I think the black level wars are overblown.

Unless you watch TV in a completely or near complete dark room, you will NEVER see the difference in black level. That's important to some people, but there are a LOT of other picture qualities that go into a great picture besides black level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneumatic View Post

Well it looks like Samsung haven't made any improvements at all. *sigh*

So disappointed...


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post #141 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 07:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Nothing against Chad, but this is the first set of a new model. With who knows what firmware.

I'll wait and see what happens over the next month or so before damning this set.

Personally, I think the black level wars are overblown.

Unless you watch TV in a completely or near complete dark room, you will NEVER see the difference in black level. That's important to some people, but there are a LOT of other picture qualities that go into a great picture besides black level.






I agree, but this is an technical/enthusiast site. Blacks are key to picture quality and contrast. They will always be talked about, and very rightly so. .016 mll is unacceptable for a $2300 50" plasma tv in 2011. My S2 rose, so if I am paying this much, I expect DAMN good blacks. I will wait to pass judgement because who knows, these sets just came out and could get firmware fixes like last year.


I am getting a tv this year regardless from CP, and having it calibrated by Chad before being shipped. I will wait to hear reviews of larger Samsungs and Panasonics before making a final decision. Thanks for the review Chad.
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post #142 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Unfortunately I did not rememeber to specifically check for PWM noise near black; but from what I remember of how my pluge patterns looked, the ST30 was superior in that department.

Thanks for your answer!

I always found the PWM-noise near black distracting on my LG PK350, cause I was so used to the fine noise at my olds S10 plasmas.

Unless LG found something in that category this year, my guess is, that it will be a Panasonic this year, though I had the Samsung D8000 clearly in my mind of buying possibilities.

EDIT: And thanks for your answers about gamma too. I will try 2.4 and switch back and forth between it and 2.22 and also I will try to change my calibrationprofile to a setting that don't include black level compensation.

EDIT2: BTW I watch movies normally with only 25ftl of lightoutput. I will see, if I have to ramp that up with a gamma of 2.4

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post #143 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by pneumatic View Post

Could raise green+blue instead to avoid losing light output.

Well I'm assuming that can't be done since the green+blue pixels would have aged and lost brightness faster than the red, therefore resulting in the pinkish tint in the first place.

I'll try to find that thread and pictures to show you guys the pink bias on an aged Samsung Plasma. I also seem to recall some other members here who have mentioned the pinkness of Sammy Plasmas but can't recall if they specified whether this was the picture out-of-the-box or only after clocking a significant number of hours.
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post #144 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Really, that sounds interesting, seeing as the C8000 has only been on the market for less than a year, 10.75 mos. to be more specific.

You must be thinking of the '09 B800 series; IIRC, they had the pink color shift problem; (I think the '08s had it too, I can't remember.)

I don't recall a single '10 C8000/7000/6500 mentioning a pink shift. I followed the Samsungs closely for quite a while in '10; if it was, indeed, talked about on AVS, if must've been a rare problem, if it existed.

Yes, if you examine the structure of my post, you'll see that I did not specifically state that it was the C8000 that had resulted in the aged pinkish 4:3 picture. I did specifically state that I couldn't remember which Samsung model was affected by this.

From other forum members' experience and my own real-life findings, even 2010 Samsungs have a pinkish hue. I simply put both findings together (aged pinkish screen on 2+ year old Sammy and pinkish screen of 2010 Sammy in showroom) and suspected that the RGB phosphors aged more unevenly on the Sammy Plasmas as compared to other plasma manufacturers.

Again, I'll try to find the links to support my findings and post them here.
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post #145 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 11:05 AM
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Okay... Found the link.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/sh....php?t=3056414

My apologies for it was not on these forums but a Singapore forum. Keep in mind that in Singapore, UK and a few other countries, the C7000 is equivalent to the US C8000 which has the extra black filter and the same aesthetics.

Look at the pictures in the link and read your way down to post number 3 for a picture of the burned-in Sammy Plasma. It's not a 2 year old model but actually a 3 year old model that showed the aged pinkish panel in the 4:3 aspect portion of the screen.

So to confirm, no one here has noticed a pinkish tint on an aged 2010 Sammy Plasma in the showroom when standing next to plasmas from Panny or LG?
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post #146 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

That is hard to say. I don't remember a lot about how it looked on the C7000/8000 because I did not use it much because of the MLL bug and the color bug those models have with 1080P/24 YCbCr input.
Going by memory rather than direct comparison, it didn't look quite as smooth as some others like an LG PK550 or a Panny V10. But whether that's good or not will be up to the individual. It did not seem to have any problems in it's operation as far as I could tell besides the MLL increase, which was subtle.

Do the d700 and d8000 have the mjc or not. why cant we get an answer to this question???????????????????????????????????????????????
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post #147 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jae3cpamd View Post

Do the d700 and d8000 have the mjc or not. why cant we get an answer to this question???????????????????????????????????????????????

I'd like to know too and if it performs better than last years models.
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post #148 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jae3cpamd View Post

Do the d700 and d8000 have the mjc or not. why cant we get an answer to this question???????????????????????????????????????????????

It has been stated elsewhere that they do not. I'm sure someone will link to it.
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post #149 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FraG_AU View Post

Is the line bleed better than the 7000 series? I have a store credit for a faulty 63" C series, waiting on the new models to surface to either pick up the plasma or the LCD. Line bleed is a big issue for me, as I do use a HTPC here and there for browsing internet and found the 7000 series lacking in this department.

Can anyone post a pic of some line bleed test screens? Pretty please

Someone posted a pic...its just as bad unfortunately
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post #150 of 5104 Old 03-19-2011, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Someone posted a pic...its just as bad unfortunately

Are you talking about the D7000 LCD or D7000 plasma? I know that sounds stupid, but the OP did mention both LCD and plasma, and Samsung was wise enough to name both types the same thing...
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