Samsung PNxxD450/PNxxD490 Owners Thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 1860 Old 05-24-2011, 04:34 PM
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Spam protection I'm sure...
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post #332 of 1860 Old 05-24-2011, 04:37 PM
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Here it is:
http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...DTV-Review.htm
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post #333 of 1860 Old 05-25-2011, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsou View Post

Hey all, first time poster here! I'm a potential buyer of the euro version, the PS-51d450, and I believe it's pretty much the same set as the north american PN-51d450... The user reviews here and on Amazon are really great and this tv seems to be a good surprise in its price range (699 euros here in France). But i stumbled upon a review on the televisioninfo website...

That review is very harsh, especially considering the 720p resolution... I really don't care about owning a 1080p set as i believe the difference between 720p and 1080p on plasma panels in the 50' range is marginal. But the reviewer seems to think otherwise considering this panel... I've owned an "HD ready" 42" Hitachi set for the past 4 years and I was extremely satisfied with its PQ: the colours were natural and vivid, and it showed fine detail. Only the black level could have been deeper, and I want a bigger screen now!
So I am naturally drawn to this particular TV, but this review scares me a little, so I guess I need reassuring! Does the 720p really hurt on a 51" screen?? What about the scaling problems mentioned?

Thanks for your input!

Seems like a very in-depth review and thanks for the link. In the process of reading it now, quite surprised the black levels are that low! I'd never have thought, maybe the larger screen has better levels - I consider this plasma to be a slight improvement on 2 x mid-range Sony and Samsung LED's I purchased (and returned) at the beginning of this year.

Anyway, I can't comment on a 51" but can on viewing a 43" from only 1.5 meters away - pretty close (in the bedroom) and it's great. I don't spot any pixelisation (even with a well trained eye as a designer with 18 years work experience) - it seems possibly the reviewer is blowing this up out of proportion. A couple of scenes in 'Sunshine' in 720p show insanely fine details (on the exterior of the ship - heat shields) and the unit displayed them very well. I'm not noticing anything that for this price range bothers me. The movie itself was a brilliant experience - colours are natural yet rich and detail very decent. Black levels though (lots of space scenes) could have been better, all seemed quite mid-grey-ish and I wasn't able to lower those other than to raise the cell light, thereby raising brightness / white levels and creating more contrast, leading to an artificial perception of lower black levels!

What is the price of the D550 vs the D450 in your neck of the woods? I'd stretch to that if you can afford it. A 46" LCD with FHD might also be another option for you.

I wonder if the motion processing - refresh rate (thought that unique to LCD's?) - would be better in the D5 series? I can certainly state there is judder in scenes, the panning of objects in motion is not fantastic and something I noticed immediately as being inferior to the 2 x LED's (with 100 / 120hz processing).

By the way after reading more of the review the Local Media Playback write-up is completely incorrect: the unit plays mkv's, mp4's, divx, xvid's and has a really decent looking user interface far superior to that shown in the review - similar in fact to the Sansung blu-ray players such as the C5500 which I own.
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post #334 of 1860 Old 05-25-2011, 03:52 AM
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Thanks a lot for your input!
I also think that the reviewer is blowing the "faults" of this set out of proportion... I mean, it's the ONLY bad article I've read that bashes this TV... I think he was biased from the start, knowing that he was reviewing a fairly low priced 720p set...! As for your suggestions, there is no way I'm getting an LCD TV!! I'm dead set on plasma technology, as I prefer a low end plasma to a high-end LED any day! The PS51D550 could be an option, but it raises the price quite substantially (+300 euros, almost 400 bucks...!), and I'm not sold on 3D compatibility, so i don't really want to pay extra for it...
The funny thing about this review is that all measurable data is really quite good (ie black levels, color depth etc...), and the reviewer finally discards all the TV's merits only to focus on its lower resolution (and I believe 720p isn't that bad, Panny's low end 50" plasmas display a native res of 1024x768...)
I really want to trust the public opinion about this set, anyone here owning the 51" version care to chime in?
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post #335 of 1860 Old 05-25-2011, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsou View Post

Thanks a lot for your input!
I also think that the reviewer is blowing the "faults" of this set out of proportion... I mean, it's the ONLY bad article I've read that bashes this TV... I think he was biased from the start, knowing that he was reviewing a fairly low priced 720p set...! As for your suggestions, there is no way I'm getting an LCD TV!! I'm dead set on plasma technology, as I prefer a low end plasma to a high-end LED any day! The PS51D550 could be an option, but it raises the price quite substantially (+300 euros, almost 400 bucks...!), and I'm not sold on 3D compatibility, so i don't really want to pay extra for it...
The funny thing about this review is that all measurable data is really quite good (ie black levels, color depth etc...), and the reviewer finally discards all the TV's merits only to focus on its lower resolution (and I believe 720p isn't that bad, Panny's low end 50" plasmas display a native res of 1024x768...)
I really want to trust the public opinion about this set, anyone here owning the 51" version care to chime in?

Yes I'm not the best to judge on a large screen then showing inherent defects (although see none on the 43" from fairly close up). On the 51" it certainly depends on how far away from the screen you will be. Have you looked at the LG PK550 and the cost of that (might be able to get a lower price as it's last year's model and no 3D). Just saying, there are options...

I'm sure others will chime in here with 51" sets!
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post #336 of 1860 Old 05-25-2011, 04:14 AM
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Eheh someone on this thread said that the PK550 (which I seriously considered) was simply the worst TV he's ever owned! So I think I won't take the chance!! I think you're right, it will either be this set, ideally, or the ps51d550, only because of its 1080p res... Oh well!!
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post #337 of 1860 Old 05-25-2011, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsou View Post

Eheh someone on this thread said that the PK550 (which I seriously considered) was simply the worst TV he's ever owned! So I think I won't take the chance!! I think you're right, it will either be this set, ideally, or the ps51d550, only because of its 1080p res... Oh well!!

I've never seen it but frankly you can't rely entirely on others feedback - rather viewing sets (if possible) side-by-side. It's all highly subjective. Last year's got a good review - new model introduces 3d as does the Sammy D5 series. For my lounge I will be considering the 51" D550 or an alternative FHD unit as budget does allow for it. Best to stretch if you can... a tv should last you 5 years if decent, right?
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post #338 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 12:06 AM
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Mine is buzzing..not badly, been on for 2 hours now. The air cleaner drowns out the noise.


What about the grey bars on 4:3 programming? Are all the current plasmas like this? Do the Panasonics have this "feature". I find it highly annoying.
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post #339 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 12:11 AM
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Besides the minor noise (its not that loud, unless its muted and no other noise in the room)...it is an amazing set. Over the years I have owned a 37" Philips LCD, 42" Sony LCD, 47" LG LCD, 52" Samsung lcd, 60" sharp lcd currently in the living room. This kills the 60" sharp in PQ which has pretty bad backlight clouding and bleed on the corners.
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post #340 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEiYah View Post

Besides the minor noise (its not that loud, unless its muted and no other noise in the room)...it is an amazing set. Over the years I have owned a 37" Philips LCD, 42" Sony LCD, 47" LG LCD, 52" Samsung lcd, 60" sharp lcd currently in the living room. This kills the 60" sharp in PQ which has pretty bad backlight clouding and bleed on the corners.

Backlight clouding, flashlighting, light bleed is the unfortunate consequence of ESPECIALLY LED, less-so with LCD. The whole reason I went plasma. Drove me completely bonkers with frustration! No matter what little issues I have with this D450, nothing compares to that.
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post #341 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewbaddeley View Post

Backlight clouding, flashlighting, light bleed is the unfortunate consequence of ESPECIALLY LED, less-so with LCD. The whole reason I went plasma. Drove me completely bonkers with frustration! No matter what little issues I have with this D450, nothing compares to that.

I agree 100%. Flashlighting, and clouding were so annoying that I went through 3 sets to settle on this one. For the price, you get amazing value

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post #342 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 09:24 AM
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Well I think I've pretty much made up my mind, I'll go fot the PS51D450 and see what it's worth!! Reading all the positive opinions, I feel confident... I 'll blind buy it over the weekend or next week (a retailer has 4 of them 5 minutes from home, but he told me he hasn't unpacked a single one of them for display, as he wants to get rid of all the 2010' "c" models first!!! He's okay with selling them to informed costumers though!!) I'll come back for a review! Thanks for all the info!
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post #343 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 09:33 AM
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I picked up my pn51d440 from Sam's last week. Everything works well and the picture is looking good. The only problem that I have is when I go from a non HD channel to an HD channel. I input the channel number and it switches but says that I have no input device. If I jump back to the original channel and then jump to the HD channel a second time, it seems to work fine. Anyone have any thoughts on this issue?
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post #344 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsou View Post

Well I think I've pretty much made up my mind, I'll go fot the PS51D450 and see what it's worth!! Reading all the positive opinions, I feel confident... I 'll blind buy it over the weekend or next week (a retailer has 4 of them 5 minutes from home, but he told me he hasn't unpacked a single one of them for display, as he wants to get rid of all the 2010' "c" models first!!! He's okay with selling them to informed costumers though!!) I'll come back for a review! Thanks for all the info!

I bought my 43D450 from Best Buy before seeing it on display. I figured since I already brought and returned 3 others, what difference would it make anyway? Seeing it in your home is the best way to test it, even though it can be a hassle. Good luck with your purchase, hopefully it meets your needs!

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post #345 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 10:23 AM
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Hello all,

Just purchased the Samsung PN43D490 and wondering if there are any gamers on here with the same tv?

Wondering if someone can help me figure out how to calibrate it to display brighter whites. For example, I like playing hockey games on my Xbox 360 and the ice looks dark and faded compared to when I played the same game on my older Vizio 37" LCD. Same cable and everything... thanks for any help.
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post #346 of 1860 Old 05-26-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewbaddeley View Post

Yes I'm not the best to judge on a large screen then showing inherent defects (although see none on the 43" from fairly close up). On the 51" it certainly depends on how far away from the screen you will be.

There shouldn't be any difference, when comparing Samsung D450/D490 43" TV to 51" TV, of the same model line, at the same distance. The reason is, these TVs are not both '720p', as in the broadcast standard of 1280x720p; in fact, neither is. Rather, The 43" TV is 1024x768p, and the 51" TV is 1360x768p. If you do the math, the 51" TV has proportionally more resolution for it's increased screen size over the 43" TV; so, the detail should be equal.
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post #347 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 12:37 AM
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That's right QZ1! Let's not worry then! Will pick it up tomorrow!
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post #348 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 02:14 AM
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This truly is an amazing TV.

I've never seen such a nice looking TV after buying countless LEDs... this looks a ton better! Also, going side by side with my 1080p LED HDTV, the resolution is not a problem at all... Maybe if I was 2 inches away from the screen... who does that? :P

All in all, it blows out my 1080p LED HDTV which I spent $1200 on just a few months ago out of the water! Wish I'd have saved money and bought this from the get go. Such a nice TV. Watching movies is such a fun adventure now (instead of worrying on my LED TV that if I strafe too far to the right the left side will look so bright because of the awful viewing angles).

This model FTW and Plasma in general FTW.
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post #349 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEiYah View Post

been on for 2 hours now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius481 View Post

I picked up my pn51d440 from Sam's last week. Everything works well and the picture is looking good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CupuhJoe View Post

Just purchased the Samsung PN43D490

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsou View Post

Will pick it up tomorrow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrelyn View Post

This truly is an amazing TV.

Assuming you all have a camera......lets see some pictures or video.

I can't get enough.
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post #350 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 08:28 AM
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I posted my calibrated settings earlier, please refer to that post. I have no done some more calibrating in 1366*768 native mode from an HTPC. Altough this mode is seriously off at start, it actually becomes even better than 720p/1080p modes once it is calibrated.

I stated earliert that you should avoid expanding levels becasue of gamma change. Well, I think i need to adjust that. The TV seem to automatically expand levels anyway in 720p and 1080p, so it actually works best with expanded levels in native (1366*768) too, but you have to adjust brigthness and contrast accordingly. I find that you can go no higher than 75 i contrast or the gamma starts to dip at 80IRE. This is no biggie because the picture is really bright at contrast 75 (and gamma -1) if you feed the tv expanded (0 - 255) levels. Expanding the levels do, unfortunately, introduce some banding, but this is hardly noticeable.

You can get better gamma and avoid banding if you feed the tv 16 - 235. However, this will reduce peak luminace by roughly 30%. So it is a trade-off.

Now, using color correction through pixel shaders in MPC-HC

( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=912720 )

I was able to reduce the Delta E on red to 0.9, Green to 3.3 and blue 3.7. The secondaries were excellent as well: yellow 0.8, cyan 2.5 and magenta 1.2

Delta E below 5 is good, below 3 is almost impossible to spot the difference if you dont compare side by side with another TV set, and below 1 is so little deviance that our eyes simply cannot tell.

This means that the color reproduction on this set, once properly calibrated by an external CMS which in this case is done on the HTPC, is simply stunning.

The greyscale will also have Delta E around 2-4 across the entire scale. It is close to perfect apart from a slight nonlinearty of blue and red that makes blue a little to high in the lower and higher part, and red (in contrast) a little to high in the middle part.

The PQ is simply stunning in this mode. 1080p that is dowsized through simple bilinear scaling (which is the standard if you dont change anything in EVR in windows 7) does not remove much detail at all and without a native 1080p set next to it noone will be able to spot the diffrerence without having their nose touching the screen. (the tvs interal scaler from 1080p works equally well!)


To be blunt, on the viewing distance where 1080p resolution of the display would matter, the TV is to noisy too look at (plasma tend to be) so there is really nothing to gain from a higher resolution... Further, compared to a 1080p LCD this TV will show a LOT more detail because of better motion resolution.
Those LCD or LCD-LED sets (if not the soap-opera effect of IFC are added which makes me wanna throw up) will only give you about 400 lines of resolution when things are moving (which is the whole point of movies...) while this set retains details during movements.

However there are two downsides of this set.

First, the out-of-box color and greyscale is not very good at all. If you ar not going to calibrate you will be MUCH better of with a lower Panasonic plasma that are fairly accurate out-of-box. However, once calibrated this set will be even better than even a high-end panasonic (out-of-box).

The second dowside is that 24p does not work very well at all. I have tried it a lot but it gives some weird kind of judder that i just cant stand. This is why i use the set at 60hz which leaves us with the normal, tolerable, 3:2 judder we are all used to.

So for those that don't mind a little 3:2 judder (24p@60hz) and can get their hands on a colorimeter, this TV is simply fantastic. However, i cannot recommend it to people who know nothing about calibration because there are so many settings that can seriously mess you PQ up on this set, and you need to know where to look for it to get it right. You can get a fairly good PQ by eye-balling it using a disc with calibration patterns. But to get it really good you need a colorimeter.
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post #351 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 08:54 AM
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I would also like to add that altough the harsh review mentioned above is correct in most areas, they put to much emphasize on the resolution. Frankly, I think this is related to the lab where the test the set. If you do not sit extremely close the resolution will not be a problem. Anyhow, this is very easy to check for your self. Just go to your local shop, stand as far from the tv as you would in your sofa, and look if you can see the pixels. If not, well then there is no problem.
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post #352 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 09:21 AM
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Thanks for all the info Grimmy! Looks like a set with a lot of potential, I think I'll provide the necessary effort to calibrate it right.
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post #353 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 09:44 AM
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By the way Grimmy, you seem to be quite knowledgeable when it comes to calibration, so what do you think of the Spyder TV? Is it worth the investment?
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post #354 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 11:26 AM
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Hello everyone! First time poster on avs forum here. I picked up my PN51D450 yesterday and am super excited!

I am now about to start breaking-in my new 51D450 but I've also read from few places that break-in is no longer necessary for samsung plasmas, especially the 2011 models lines. Is this true? I've never owned a plasma before so I have no experiences in this. However I still tend to do at least 200 hours break in. If it is still necessary, are 200 hours long enough? and can I use the below settings?

Mode: Movie
Contrast: 64 (58 for dark room/low light settings)
Brightness: 36
Color: 48
Tint: G 54/46 R
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Warm2
DNR: OFF
DNIE: OFF
Dynamic contrast: OFF
Black level: OFF
Edge enhancement: OFF


Thanks in advance!
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post #355 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 06:25 PM
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Just got my PN51D450 this afternoon for the gameroom. Switched out the old 32" Sony LCD (from 2005) and hung the 51" beast up in it's place. I'll post pictures soon.
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post #356 of 1860 Old 05-27-2011, 11:05 PM
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I can hear buzzing noise from my PN51d450 when breaking-in with the break-in DVD, it's slight but noticeable when close to the plasma and the room is quiet. Is it normal or should i exchange it? I read somewhere that 51D450 doesn't make noise.

Thanks!
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post #357 of 1860 Old 05-28-2011, 04:08 AM
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All plasmas make a slight buzzing sound when they show a bright picture. This is perfectly normal and something we have to live with. With normal volume you should not be able to hear it though.

The only point of a break in dvd is that aging the display a little in the beginning can stabilize it, regarding color etc. Thus it is not a good idea to calibrate right away, and if you dont want to wait a break in dvd is a good thing. But regarding burn in, todays plasmas are simply to resistant. I used too have an n old (2005 model) plasma with much more IR than this samsung, but I never had any real burn in despite lots of video games with maximum contrast..

Regarding calibration with a colorimeter - heres all info anyone can need:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

And also for those with a HTPC can do color correction by means of pixel shaders in MPC-HC

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=912720

Note, if you use shaders to correct color, a slow graphics card won't be able to scale the picture using shaders as well. This is no problem because simple bilinear is best for downscaling (1080p -> 1366* 768) and scalaling 720p conten to 1366*768 (if you using native) is such a small amount of scaling that there will be very little loss of quality.

One point of advice though. If you plan on using a HTPC and NOT correct color with a colorimeter and shaders, then you should use 1080p and have bicubic scaling in MPC-HC to scale everything up (DVD etc) to 1080p. I think this will give the best quality, because the TV will scale from 720p anyway and we do not want more scaling than neccesary. However, if you mostly watch 720p movies/tv series THEN 720p is the best resolution to feed to the TV.

Another word of advice. The sharpness setting is quite mild all the way up to 10 so one might experiment with that, especially for non 1080p content!

To to sum up: best PQ is colorimeter + 1366*768 from a htpc.
Next best thing is 720p or 1080p with color and tint properly set, which can be achived with a test-pattern with flashing color bars thanks to the TVs ability to show one color at a time.
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post #358 of 1860 Old 05-28-2011, 02:28 PM
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Thank you for your input Grimmy! for me there sure are a lot to learn about Plasmas. I'll finish the break-in period first and then do the calibration. And I'll report back what I found and how the Plasma turn out!

Another quick question: during the break-in period, can I watch full screen programs with normal-viewing settings(contrast, brightness, sharpness and etc) for a few hours a day? so is it also suggested to use break-in settings?

Thanks!
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post #359 of 1860 Old 05-28-2011, 03:03 PM
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Hey folks!

I am a newbie owner of the PN51D450 and have read the entire thread here.

I want to say thanks to all of you that have put forth the effort to teach and inform those of us that are getting one of these TVs or possibly thinking about getting one.

I have a few questions.

1. Do I understand correctly that the best way to hook this unit up to any HD source is with the settings on the source at 1080P and allow the Plasma to do the downscaling?

2. It shows in the manual that the only playback functions for the USB connection is for Audio(MP3) and JPEG files? "Enjoy photos and/or music files saved on a USB Mass Storage Class (MSC) device." "Only MP3 and JPEG file formats are supported". Is that what everyone else has found to be true as I have a ton of saved TSP and MLK files that I had hoped to watch on the new TV using the USB function.

3. "The file system only supports FAT16/32" Anyone tried NTFS?

4. Is there any new firmware upgrades to be aware of for this unit as I did not see any on the Samsung website?


I have seen some references to some of these questions but am NOT sure if it is only for the 490 model or the European versions.

Thanks again in advance for an info that you share with us about this model plasma.


c.hepler
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post #360 of 1860 Old 05-28-2011, 03:26 PM
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I picked a PN43D450 on Monday and have been pretty impressed with it, especially for the price ($420!) First plasma, and I'll think I'll only go with Plasma for an all-in-one display from now on - it's the closest match to Front Projection I've seen. The only thing that bugs me currently is the color doesn't currently compare with my EPSON HC 8350... I'll be waiting a little while to calibrate it properly, but the Plasma is like looking at Fuji 35mm Film while the EPSON has more natural and realistic coloring.

Here's the 2 in simultaneous action...(the Plasma's image it better than this in reality - I guess the refresh rate and relative image brightness was playing tricks with my Ipod...but you can see the color difference between the two [though it is somewhat exaggerated here too])

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