Samsung PNxxD450/PNxxD490 Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1860 Old 08-20-2011, 10:35 AM
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Hello everyone. New to this forum and am heavily considering the PN51D450. I am a big gamer, so my first concern is input lag, but I also wanted a set that would really immerse you in a cinematic experience.

That being said, I am a fighting game player, which probably requires the most precise timing of any genre. I play on a CRT tv right now, so there is zero lag, and ideally I'd like 1-2 frames of lag at most (30 milliseconds). I've scanned through every page although haven't read every post, and it seems as though the lag is low on this set, but has anyone done an actual test to see the exact MS? Thank you so much, very knowledgeable people here.
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post #812 of 1860 Old 08-21-2011, 01:01 AM
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my latest calibration effort on PN43D450


i think it's getting there. pic taken on phone so not the best. there's a good "pop" to the image on jessie/bullseye and the horsecart (i think down to the fact they're in front of white buildings) but the box of stinky pete is a little washed out which is annoying me.

movie
cell 13
contrast 87
brightness 59
sharpness 20 (might lower it a bit)
colour 50
tint 50/50
red offset 18
green offset 30
blue offset 10
red gain 0
green gain 30
blue gain 0
gamma +1
warm 1

the gain settings are a little extreme but i couldn't get the red and blue low enough to give me correct greyscale for each 0-100 IRE. but it averages out well, the luminance is spot on, the gamma is 2.18 which is near as perfect, the red rgb level is a little high but i couldn't get it any lower. the primary and secondarys on the CIE graph are also good, deltas are between 0.017 and 0.002.
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post #813 of 1860 Old 08-21-2011, 03:25 AM
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kpm197: Maybe later. I have to check so that i get the right ones, since I have lately been calibrating in a mode where i make changes to the HTPCs gamma curve as well (because the gamma curve of blue, red and green is not in sync otherwise) and these measurements are worthless to anyone but me

Anyway, I do not think you should evaluate your sets performance with animated movies because that is not neutral material. We humans have an evolutionary advantages to detect even subtle errors in human faces, and also to some extent in natural surroundings. You lose that edge if you look at animated material. Same reason Avatar is a bad idea to watch. Avatar looks fanastic even on an quite uncalibrated display, simply because we have no reference point as to how it should look... Same goes for Toy story.

One great movie to evalute performance with is True Grit. It has extremely crisp detail and many scences with varying levels of light. It is also a great movie to evaluate sharpness. Because there is scaling involved there is no easy answer what sharpness value is the perfect one. I find that 0 blurs the picture somewhat, but anything higher adds som ringing. It is a tradeoff. But movies with low level of detail tend to look better with high sharpness, whereas a movie with lots of fine detail you will only see it with low sharpenss.
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post #814 of 1860 Old 08-21-2011, 09:17 AM
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I got this set open box for 400$ and it's honestly the best buy I've made this year so far. The TV still had the seal tape on it and the accessories were still sealed in the bag, apparently the buyer bought it by a mistake or something.

Xbox 360 & PS3 games look amazing, 99% of console games are native 720p and this set is a match made in heaven for native 720p content.

Super impressed with the performance for the price you pay. This set reminds me of my old panny 42pz00u which is the set that got me to ditch LCD and fall in love with plasma.
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post #815 of 1860 Old 08-21-2011, 01:08 PM
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thanks grimmy, i don't have true grit but i put dark knight in and found a couple of scenes with a mixture of red, green and blue and also some skin tones. i'd be interested in your thoughts on the colours. for me the boat scene is quite good as it shows red, green and blue to be quite vibrant but the clouds are white, there's no tint to them. on the hospital scene though the grass has a bit of a glow. face tones, i've no idea. gary oldmans face isn't too red. i hope.









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post #816 of 1860 Old 08-21-2011, 06:25 PM
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Hey Kpm. How old is your i1d2? It very well may have drifted. I HATE the i1d2. Unless you buy it from spectra cal/chroma pure, or maybe x-rite directly, I wouldn't trust it unless you had a spectro to profile against.
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post #817 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 03:29 AM
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hi, it came from spectra cal. don't know how old it is though.
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post #818 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 03:34 AM
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Sorry but I dont have much to say. I do not like screenshots because they depend as much on the camera and the screen peopel view them on as it does on the TV. Simply put, I have no idea if the screenshot I view looks anything like the screenshot you view even if the screenshot you are viewing do like similar to your TV. What will get messed up in this process is gamma and along it colors etc.

Anyway, If I had to comment I'd say that the greyscale looks fine. The gamma appear to be a bit to high, but it might be the movie. Red appear a tad bit to intense. Have you looked at your delta luma values?

I think that you might possible need to lower color somewhat. This might be the reason you cannot get red and blue just right in the greyscale either.

Also, I think you should adjust the colors with the red-only mode as well to confirm your resulsts. On my set this gives identical results to my Eye-one.

Measurement devices are (In my opinion) great for adjusting color and greyscale becauise our eyes cannot do anything good with patterns and we cannot look at a phote and adjust until it gets just right because our eyes will get used to the look quite fast. However, when it comes to evaluating the picture nothing beats our eyes when we look at how people and familar things look. So trust your eyes
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post #819 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 06:26 AM
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Thanks Grimmy and others for helping me to buy this TV...

I picked up 51D440 from a local walmart yesterday to replace my Sony 36 CRT beast. This is my first plasma ever and I love it so far.
I did apply Grimmy's hdmi settings including (color gain) and I'm very happy with the PQ. The unit allows for separate settings for each
Input, which is great to optimize HDTV 1080i and Wii 480P sources. Most of the day it was cloudy yesterday, so even with light coming
Thru our windows the picture was good. However once I used the curtains to block some of the light the picture was even better, mostly black levels.
Playing wii (Mario karts) was very enjoyable, smooth, no noticeable input/motion lag. Also to my surprise the glare does not bother me at all 

What can I say this entry 720P Samsung plasma is very good performer at its price. I'm sure it is not perfect, but it is very good for my needs and it is
wallet friendly 

Now I'll try to sell my 36 CRT +200lbs beast. LOL
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post #820 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 02:48 PM
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sorry for asking this but where can I find a set of pictures to perform a screen burn-in... I would like to do that from the USB stick... My friends said I need at least 100hrs for it. Also does it matter what picture settings are used during burn-in time?

Thanks so much
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post #821 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 06:23 PM
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The 51D490 is now available for $699 with a pair of 3D glasses thrown in. Sounds like a good time to buy if you've been debating.
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post #822 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark17 View Post

sorry for asking this but where can I find a set of pictures to perform a screen burn-in... I would like to do that from the USB stick... My friends said I need at least 100hrs for it. Also does it matter what picture settings are used during burn-in time?

Thanks so much

Hey Clark17 your in luck. I looked long and hard when I first got my D490 for some good break in images. At first I found an iso that had several different solid color images that ran about 30 seconds each. I burned it to a dvd and watched on my PS3 for awhile, but I didnt want my ps3 running for so long.

So I decided to keep looking and searched again and I found a set of 120 solid color plasma break in images, ironically from a thread in this forum. I downloaded them and placed them on a usb thumb drive, then used my TV's built in media player to view the images as a slideshow. I turned on repeat, and set the slide show speed for "slow", which by luck is almost exactly 10 seconds.

I have been using these along with very careful tv and gaming settings for over 200 hours now. For TV I try to stay away from shows that have a static logo on the screen, for movies I use expanded picture size (zoom), so theres no black bars on sides or top and bottom, for gaming Ive been playing almost only Far Cry 2 because I love it, and because it doesnt have a constant HUD.

I am running a 250 hour break in. Which may or may not be more than I need, but after some image retention issues with my C490 I decided to be extra careful this time. So anyway heres a link to the images, and to the thread where I found the images, it has a lot of good info on break ins. If you need any more help let me know, Id be glad to help you with your break in.

PS: Congrats on the set.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RLLWVLEW
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BLJ65VU3
http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1107017

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post #823 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 07:48 PM
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Kpm did you buy the meter used then? Unless you have some setting wrong in hcfr (I use calman, so not to sure), I would still suspect the meter.

Great recent example, in the GT25 thread. There was a guy that just got a i1d2 from Amazon. He could not get Red in the grayscale low enough. No matter what he did, it was the meter. Red seems to be the first color to go.

How does a grayscale pattern/ramp look?
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post #824 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 08:39 PM
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@Gam3r 4 Life

Thanks so much for links, the 120 picture test has been running. The TV is mostly for my kids and since we won't use it untill weekend I have about 4 days or so run it ~100hrs.. then I'll run it in the off hours on the weekend and I will continue afterwards..

I have 2 questions though

1) Perhaps it is my brain playing tricks on me, but when I played 20 slides or 120 slides, between some slides I don't see a difference on the plasma. To my eyes some slides look the same. Is this normal?

2) I use this on USB stick and Samsung's media player. However I cannot find a Video/Picture settings when viewing the show. When I click on "menu" button I get my TV channels back and the Menu for it. So my question is how do I adjust video/picture settings for the built-in media player?

THanks so much...
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post #825 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark17 View Post

@Gam3r 4 Life

Thanks so much for links, the 120 picture test has been running. The TV is mostly for my kids and since we won't use it untill weekend I have about 4 days or so run it ~100hrs.. then I'll run it in the off hours on the weekend and I will continue afterwards..

I have 2 questions though

1) Perhaps it is my brain playing tricks on me, but when I played 20 slides or 120 slides, between some slides I don't see a difference on the plasma. To my eyes some slides look the same. Is this normal?

2) I use this on USB stick and Samsung's media player. However I cannot find a Video/Picture settings when viewing the show. When I click on "menu" button I get my TV channels back and the Menu for it. So my question is how do I adjust video/picture settings for the built-in media player?

THanks so much...

1) I noticed that too, and believe it or not they are different, but just barely.

2) For the picture settings while in the usb media player you adjust the same ones that you do for regular viewing. In otherwords the menu, but for a few other option you can press tools while in pic or video mode to change some other settings. The set has its own picture settings for usb mode. And will save them.

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post #826 of 1860 Old 08-22-2011, 09:43 PM
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Well I got sick of the audio constantly going out of sync while watching movies so I contacted Samsung. And I found out something I hadnt even noticed before. The 450 and 490 series sets do not support USB(HDD). And the guy that I chatted with said that that may be why my audio goes out of sync. But what doesnt make sense to me is that this never happened with my PN50C490, and the PN51D490 is the 2011 model of the same TV. I did notice that the GUI changed though, but it has the same basic set up.

So in other words the TV's usb playback was designed for thumb drives and the size of the drive makes a huge difference. Both of the external drives I use are 500gb, so I guess that anythiing larger might even have more errors.

So now I am trying to decide if I want to get a separate usb media player, or just transfer movies I want to watch over to a thumb drive. But some of my movies (mainly my 3d blu ray rips) are very large files. So I would need a much bigger thumb drive.

What to do?

UPDATE: Well as an experiment, and suggested by the samsung guy I put the same movie files that I was losing sync with onto an 8gb thumb drive, and it still happened. So that rules out it being just a USB(HDD) issue.

2nd UPDATE: Ok, after a lot of troubleshooting and narrowing down I found out turtle beach PX5 headset and AAC audio only that has the sync issue. It stays fine with my TV volume up, but falls out of sync in the headset, so I have sent a service request to them and hopefully Ill figure it out. Otherwise I have to reencode any movies I have with AAC audio to MP3.

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post #827 of 1860 Old 08-23-2011, 02:24 AM
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I got the replacement 51d450 today, everything works good. I can't believe how much better the picture is over the 5 yr old Vizio it is replacing, I would say it looks better than my 52 in Toshiba 52lx177 1080p.
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post #828 of 1860 Old 08-23-2011, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutdotnet View Post

Kpm did you buy the meter used then? Unless you have some setting wrong in hcfr (I use calman, so not to sure), I would still suspect the meter.

Great recent example, in the GT25 thread. There was a guy that just got a i1d2 from Amazon. He could not get Red in the grayscale low enough. No matter what he did, it was the meter. Red seems to be the first color to go.

How does a grayscale pattern/ramp look?

some screenshots from my service menu, you can see the red gain is higher than the rest and the green gain and offset is lower. it might explain why i have to increase the green above standard settings to get 100% r/g/b and why i can only get red down to 105% if i leave the green alone. can i touch these settings without breaking the tv? i' have a look on the avs709 for a greyscale ramp later. am i looking to make sure there's no tint in it?





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post #829 of 1860 Old 08-23-2011, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gam3r 4 Life View Post
1) I noticed that too, and believe it or not they are different, but just barely.

2) For the picture settings while in the usb media player you adjust the same ones that you do for regular viewing. In otherwords the menu, but for a few other option you can press tools while in pic or video mode to change some other settings. The set has its own picture settings for usb mode. And will save them.
Thanks again...

However on my 440 (US version) during picture playback, when I hit "tools" button, nothing happnes the only button I can use is "info" and it doesn't allow me to access any picture/video settings... THis is very weird...

Can someone with 440/450 PLEASE try to access picture/video settings for USB media mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gam3r 4 Life View Post
Well I got sick of the audio constantly going out of sync while watching movies so I contacted Samsung. And I found out something I hadnt even noticed before. The 450 and 490 series sets do not support USB(HDD). And the guy that I chatted with said that that may be why my audio goes out of sync. But what doesnt make sense to me is that this never happened with my PN50C490, and the PN51D490 is the 2011 model of the same TV. I did notice that the GUI changed though, but it has the same basic set up.

So in other words the TV's usb playback was designed for thumb drives and the size of the drive makes a huge difference. Both of the external drives I use are 500gb, so I guess that anythiing larger might even have more errors.

So now I am trying to decide if I want to get a separate usb media player, or just transfer movies I want to watch over to a thumb drive. But some of my movies (mainly my 3d blu ray rips) are very large files. So I would need a much bigger thumb drive.

What to do?

UPDATE: Well as an experiment, and suggested by the samsung guy I put the same movie files that I was losing sync with onto an 8gb thumb drive, and it still happened. So that rules out it being just a USB(HDD) issue.

2nd UPDATE: Ok, after a lot of troubleshooting and narrowing down I found out turtle beach PX5 headset and AAC audio only that has the sync issue. It stays fine with my TV volume up, but falls out of sync in the headset, so I have sent a service request to them and hopefully Ill figure it out. Otherwise I have to reencode any movies I have with AAC audio to MP3.
I hope it is your cans, reencoding your movie collection to MP3 would be very time consuming. I cannot believe Samsung would say USB(HDD) issue, If the device is recognized properly it should just work.

Did you try to play your encoded movies on PC with your wi-fi cans connected to your PC? That would elimate TV problem.

I wish 440 would support movie playback :-(... Too bad it cannot be hacked or moded via firmware or service menu LOL
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post #830 of 1860 Old 08-23-2011, 02:23 PM
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btw... the 1080P slide show is not good for its 1360x768 native rez ... So I had a few columns of pixels untested/(black bar) on the left side.... grrrrr.... As a result I've used some photo software to resize all slides to its 1360x768 native rez. It is weird that Samsung player won't allow you to zoom in while slideshow has started....

EDIT:
It looks like I had to use 1366x768 to properly fill the screen... So why is the manual/specs talking about 1360x768 when it looks like I had to use 1366x768?
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post #831 of 1860 Old 08-23-2011, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gam3r 4 Life View Post
Well I got sick of the audio constantly going out of sync while watching movies so I contacted Samsung. And I found out something I hadnt even noticed before. The 450 and 490 series sets do not support USB(HDD). And the guy that I chatted with said that that may be why my audio goes out of sync. But what doesnt make sense to me is that this never happened with my PN50C490, and the PN51D490 is the 2011 model of the same TV. I did notice that the GUI changed though, but it has the same basic set up.

So in other words the TV's usb playback was designed for thumb drives and the size of the drive makes a huge difference. Both of the external drives I use are 500gb, so I guess that anythiing larger might even have more errors.

So now I am trying to decide if I want to get a separate usb media player, or just transfer movies I want to watch over to a thumb drive. But some of my movies (mainly my 3d blu ray rips) are very large files. So I would need a much bigger thumb drive.

What to do?

UPDATE: Well as an experiment, and suggested by the samsung guy I put the same movie files that I was losing sync with onto an 8gb thumb drive, and it still happened. So that rules out it being just a USB(HDD) issue.

2nd UPDATE: Ok, after a lot of troubleshooting and narrowing down I found out turtle beach PX5 headset and AAC audio only that has the sync issue. It stays fine with my TV volume up, but falls out of sync in the headset, so I have sent a service request to them and hopefully Ill figure it out. Otherwise I have to reencode any movies I have with AAC audio to MP3.
I'm using a western digital 2TB external HDD with no issues.
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post #832 of 1860 Old 08-23-2011, 11:22 PM
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Did 4 hrs of Call of duty tonight, no IR or anything of that nature, Awesome set for the price.
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post #833 of 1860 Old 08-23-2011, 11:45 PM
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Hi Guys,

How do u check the number of hours used on 43D490?

Thanx
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post #834 of 1860 Old 08-24-2011, 06:27 AM
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1366*768 is the tvs resolution but most computer will only do 1360*768. This is why the manual recommends it The diffrence is minimal.

While I do not think it necessary to do a burn in, It will go faster at higher cell and contrast.

Further there is no need to use any slideshows. You could simply use the burn-in-prevention which is a moving grey ramp. Anything that moves once in a while and is somewhat grey will do actually.
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post #835 of 1860 Old 08-24-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimmy84 View Post

1366*768 is the tvs resolution but most computer will only do 1360*768. This is why the manual recommends it The diffrence is minimal.

While I do not think it necessary to do a burn in, It will go faster at higher cell and contrast.

Further there is no need to use any slideshows. You could simply use the burn-in-prevention which is a moving grey ramp. Anything that moves once in a while and is somewhat grey will do actually.

Very interesting, I'm not 100% sure but I think you both amd/nvidia should allow for a custom resolution of 1366 x 768. Also the way the specs were written it talks about native rez of 1360 x 768. However this rez might not be supported by PC games. Since I'm not planning at the moment to use this set with HTPC for movies/gaming I'm not worry about it.

How long would you recommend to run burn-in-prevention 100hrs or more? Also I thought the reason to run the slideshow with RGB colors and its shades was to allow plasma to properly break-in... Like I said I'm a plasma noobie, so I could be totally off... LOL Like I asked before, do you know how to adjust cell/contrast from TV's usb media player? I cannot find a way since USB is not part of the "sources/inputs". It is a little weird that I cannot adjust brightness/cotnrast when viewing pictures off usb stick.

My wife is already complaing about plasma "smell" during the 2 days non-stop break-in period LOL...

Also I did order cheap PBO media streamer player for this TV. So my question is, what resolution would be better to set the player to display 720P or 1080P or it doesn't matter?

Thanks so much...
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post #836 of 1860 Old 08-24-2011, 03:11 PM
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Ok I've been looking through this thread and I can't find any HTPC discussion with any detail. I am connected to the TV via HDMI (no dvi --> hdmi).
Here's the issue: I can do 1360x768 and it's fine except...I cannot adjust the size (only size option is 16:9 or 4:3) and I lose exactly 6 pixels horizontally, 2 pixels vertically and i can see them not being lit up (it's not zooming or anything).

I can use 720p (1280x720) in output settings and there are no columns. Is this what everyone else is doing? Should I do this instead of trying 1366x768? I would have thought the non-1:1 mapping could be an issue. (using screen fit with 1280x720)

I tried custom timings but with 1366x768 it says it is receiving 1080p and still isn't lighting up the whole screen completely. My TV is PN51D450. Please tell me what HTPC settings you're using!

Thanks.
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post #837 of 1860 Old 08-24-2011, 03:25 PM
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What is the overall summary of this tv? I can't make up my mind on whether to get the Panasonic VIERA TC-P42GT25 or the Samsung PN43D450. If you had to do it all over again, which of the two would you go with? I was leaning toward the Panny due to it being 1080p and the better warranty I can get from Costco but I've always been more partial towards Sammy's. TIA
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post #838 of 1860 Old 08-24-2011, 03:35 PM
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Its definately not a hard drive issue, it only falls out of sync through the headphones, and only with AAC audio. So ill just reencode AAC audio movies. Since im only reencoding the audio and keeping the video the same it only takes about a half hour using freemake video converter.

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post #839 of 1860 Old 08-24-2011, 05:28 PM
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Hi, I just bought my first HDTV which is the Samsung PN43D450.

Anyways I hooked it up with my laptop using a HDMI cable and the laptop auto recognizes the TV and switched to the 1024x768 resolution. Everything looks good until I tried to run a video when I noticed a weird offset effect in a horizontal line that scans from top to bottom very very slowly (it scans from top to bottom in around 30 secs at least). This only happens when the scene has a lot of movement.

I went online to do some research and the closest phenomenon that matches what I see is judder. I downloaded a judder test that someone on AVSForum posted (a bunch of vertical white bars moving left to right across a black background). I took a picture and attached it here. You can see a distinct offset in the image...this offset will run from the top of the screen to the bottom.

Can anyone tell me why this is happening and is there a way to fix this? Thanks
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post #840 of 1860 Old 08-24-2011, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gam3r 4 Life View Post

Well I got sick of the audio constantly going out of sync while watching movies so I contacted Samsung. And I found out something I hadnt even noticed before. The 450 and 490 series sets do not support USB(HDD). And the guy that I chatted with said that that may be why my audio goes out of sync. But what doesnt make sense to me is that this never happened with my PN50C490, and the PN51D490 is the 2011 model of the same TV. I did notice that the GUI changed though, but it has the same basic set up.

So in other words the TV's usb playback was designed for thumb drives and the size of the drive makes a huge difference. Both of the external drives I use are 500gb, so I guess that anythiing larger might even have more errors.

So now I am trying to decide if I want to get a separate usb media player, or just transfer movies I want to watch over to a thumb drive. But some of my movies (mainly my 3d blu ray rips) are very large files. So I would need a much bigger thumb drive.

What to do?

UPDATE: Well as an experiment, and suggested by the samsung guy I put the same movie files that I was losing sync with onto an 8gb thumb drive, and it still happened. So that rules out it being just a USB(HDD) issue.

2nd UPDATE: Ok, after a lot of troubleshooting and narrowing down I found out turtle beach PX5 headset and AAC audio only that has the sync issue. It stays fine with my TV volume up, but falls out of sync in the headset, so I have sent a service request to them and hopefully Ill figure it out. Otherwise I have to reencode any movies I have with AAC audio to MP3.

What series do you have (450 or 490)? My 43D450 will not show my movie files at all. The menu for the USB port only shows Photo, Music and Setup. I can however use the same HD to watch movies on my 65D550.
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