Official Samsung 2011 PNxxD550 Thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 1920 Old 04-12-2011, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

Did you use a calibration disc to come up with these settings, or did you just eyeball it. Your brightness seems awfully low. I've had to set my cell to 17, contrast to 85, and brightness to 91 to accurately reproduce ideal black and white....

Frank I think his numbers look decent. Your 91 Brightness is WAY off. Should be closer to his if you use a calibration disc.
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post #332 of 1920 Old 04-12-2011, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jrobitaille23 View Post

Frank I think his numbers look decent. Your 91 Brightness is WAY off. Should be closer to his if you use a calibration disc.

That depends on their gamma settings, doesn't it? Gamma is another link in the brightness adjustment options chain.

Speaking of which, is there one, finite gamma setting for this tv? That's what I've been tinkering around with lately trying to fix the brightness pops. I was at +1 and then went down to -2. Thought I found a level last night that at least minimized the pops (for the test scene I was using) and had a decent picture but as I'm still getting settled into my new apartment I didn't have more than a few minutes to tinker.
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post #333 of 1920 Old 04-12-2011, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Erik C. Johnson View Post

For me it seems that it does not matter what the cell light power is at, I still had problems. I just had to find the right combination between cell light, contrast, and brightness to really reduce the problem.

I agree. I've had mine at 20 for some 3d movies and the pops were definitely there. Perhaps even worse than when it is lower.
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post #334 of 1920 Old 04-12-2011, 09:37 AM
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Hi,
I'm writing for an specific topic. There have been a lot of comments about shifting or fluctuation int he brightness of the set, or changes in the blacks that happen automatic while watching different contents and sources.

My question for this symptoms are:
1. Is the Eco Sensor off?
2. Is the Dynamic Contrast off (if your mode is on Standard)?

This are the only two options that will automatically change the contrast and brightness is the TV, and, they are ON by default (by law).

(Even tough i have read this forum for a while, i never post (mostly i do research)) Thanks in advanced !!!
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post #335 of 1920 Old 04-12-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrobitaille23 View Post

Frank I think his numbers look decent. Your 91 Brightness is WAY off. Should be closer to his if you use a calibration disc.

I've used both DVE and WOW and my brightness/contrast/cell levels are what gets everything "right" (...according to the discs). I'm calibrating in my living room at night (next to complete darkness) with a Gamma level of 0.

I'll redo it tonight with lower levels and see what's what.

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post #336 of 1920 Old 04-12-2011, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet86 View Post

Hi,
I'm writing for an specific topic. There have been a lot of comments about shifting or fluctuation int he brightness of the set, or changes in the blacks that happen automatic while watching different contents and sources.

My question for this symptoms are:
1. Is the Eco Sensor off?
2. Is the Dynamic Contrast off (if your mode is on Standard)?

This are the only two options that will automatically change the contrast and brightness is the TV, and, they are ON by default (by law).

(Even tough i have read this forum for a while, i never post (mostly i do research)) Thanks in advanced !!!

The D550 series doesn't have any "Eco Sensors" which automatically adjust levels due to room conditions.

If you go back and read the posts by myself and others, you will find that we have done all kinds of test settings including all options such as Dynamic Contrast on/off, black level adjustments set to off, low, medium, high, etc. Cinema mode, normal mode, etc.

No combination of settings will get rid of this problem. They can shift them to appear elsewhere in the content, but they will not solve the issue.

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post #337 of 1920 Old 04-12-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

I've used both DVE and WOW and my brightness/contrast/cell levels are what gets everything "right" (...according to the discs). I'm calibrating in my living room at night (next to complete darkness) with a Gamma level of 0.

I'll redo it tonight with lower levels and see what's what.

Just tried the lower settings. The black bars on the DVE test pattern all disappeared. I was able to get brightness down to 83....which is a considerable change, but that's as low as I could take it.

Could this be a function of me doing about 100 hours of break in slides? Seems odd that our values are so different.

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post #338 of 1920 Old 04-12-2011, 05:56 PM
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Yeah, I did not use a calibration disc whatsover. I most certainly have less than a 100 hours on my TV. I probably have around 40 or so. I should also note that I use this TV in a back bedroom and in the evening. I am sure that if you have a well lit room/sunny during the day, my settings would not be too pleasing. I also prefer my blacks to be black which includes the letterbox bars. I simply just prefer things to be on the darker more natural side which is not for everyone. That is why my brightness is set quite a bit lower. So far this has really fixed my problems with the black flucuations as well as brightness pops which I found to be very annoying in that I almost returned the TV. I still have a few more weeks before the return window is up, but with these setting working for me I wll probably go ahead and keep it. Oh, my 51 inch 550 does have the Eco-solution setting and yes it is turned to off along with pretty much everything else other than Cinema Smooth.
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post #339 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post
Just tried the lower settings. The black bars on the DVE test pattern all disappeared.
In what RGB range is your PS3 running? Also I would recommend the AVS709-patterns rather than the DVE-Disc whent it comes to setting up the brightness correctly.

EDIT: Or to make it easier-> Run a cinemascope movie, raise the brightness until PWM-Noise appers in the bars and then go one notch back to minus.
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post #340 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

In what RGB range is your PS3 running? Also I would recommend the AVS709-patterns rather than the DVE-Disc whent it comes to setting up the brightness correctly.

EDIT: Or to make it easier-> Run a cinemascope movie, raise the brightness until PWM-Noise appers in the bars and then go one notch back to minus.

There are a lot of things in your post I don't understand...

I think I know where to grab the AVS709 patterns. Should I just put these on a thumb drive and pull them up that way?

Not sure in what RGB range my PS3 is running.... How would I determine this?

What's a cinemascope movie and what is PWM-Noise?

Thanks!

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post #341 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 09:24 AM
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Holy hell... Cinema Smooth DOES have an effect on the brightness pops!! They went away for the test scene I was using this morning.

I also reset the TV but that didn't do anything for them.
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post #342 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aletuner View Post

The D550 series doesn't have any "Eco Sensors" which automatically adjust levels due to room conditions.

If you go back and read the posts by myself and others, you will find that we have done all kinds of test settings including all options such as Dynamic Contrast on/off, black level adjustments set to off, low, medium, high, etc. Cinema mode, normal mode, etc.

No combination of settings will get rid of this problem. They can shift them to appear elsewhere in the content, but they will not solve the issue.

The D550 does have Eco sensors that automatically adjust levels they are under "Plug & Play/Eco Solution/Eco Saving & Eco sensor". Both are off on my PN64D550 and I have not had any spikes. I am a first time plasma owner but I think my blacks are fine. I fallowed some settings I found on the first couple of pages in this thread.
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post #343 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 10:06 AM
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is Cinema Smooth only for blu ray and dvd?
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post #344 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

Holy hell... Cinema Smooth DOES have an effect on the brightness pops!! They went away for the test scene I was using this morning.

I also reset the TV but that didn't do anything for them.

Sorry for my ignorance, but the pops are gone with c.s. on or off?

That's it man, game over man, game over!
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post #345 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by LEGENDARY T0AD View Post

is Cinema Smooth only for blu ray and dvd?

I'm the wrong person to ask there... I watch 95% blu ray and 5% dvd at the moment.

Speaking of which, I popped in a dvd last night and the TV kept the image at its original resolution, so it was just a small portion of the screen. Anyone know why this is?
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post #346 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Flash3d View Post

Sorry for my ignorance, but the pops are gone with c.s. on or off?

No worries, I should have said. It's when it is turned ON that the pops "go away"... keep in mind, as others have said, that just because you got them to go away for one movie or scene, doesn't mean they are gone entirely. I was only toying with the set for a few minutes this morning and the pops that were the most brutal at the beginning of HP and the half-blood prince (bridge scene, and Voldemort's bright wand in the dark scene of the house at the beginning) went away when I turned on C.S. I did not notice them at all on those or any other scenes after I turned C.S. to ON.

And man is that film a torture-test for black levels. Watching it in pitch black last night was the first time I was dissatisfied with the black levels on my set. However, when I went back to it this morning in low-light and after resetting the tv, I was alright with them.
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post #347 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

No worries, I should have said. It's when it is turned ON that the pops "go away"... keep in mind, as others have said, that just because you got them to go away for one movie or scene, doesn't mean they are gone entirely. I was only toying with the set for a few minutes this morning and the pops that were the most brutal at the beginning of HP and the half-blood prince (bridge scene, and Voldemort's bright wand in the dark scene of the house at the beginning) went away when I turned on C.S. I did not notice them at all on those or any other scenes after I turned C.S. to ON.

And man is that film a torture-test for black levels. Watching it in pitch black last night was the first time I was dissatisfied with the black levels on my set. However, when I went back to it this morning in low-light and after resetting the tv, I was alright with them.

The blacks are just not that good for plasma. They are lighter than even my 3 year old Samsung 32B460 LCD. That is just plain wrong. They literally glow in my all dark basement. Unacceptable.

To answer that one question about Cinema Smooth. It only works with blu ray. You can't use it for cable or DVD. I have not seen the pops while watching BR with CS enabled.
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post #348 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 03:44 PM
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You said you're returning yours, right? What other sets are you looking at?
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post #349 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 04:08 PM
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I took a peek over at the 2011 Panny st30 thread and it looks like it has the same problems this one does.
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post #350 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

Just tried the lower settings. The black bars on the DVE test pattern all disappeared. I was able to get brightness down to 83....which is a considerable change, but that's as low as I could take it.

Could this be a function of me doing about 100 hours of break in slides? Seems odd that our values are so different.

posted my settings earlier in this thread, but i'm at
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 71

using wow.
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post #351 of 1920 Old 04-13-2011, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

You said you're returning yours, right? What other sets are you looking at?

I have a couple of weeks to decide. I am holding out hope that a firmware will address the flaws. If the blacks were as good as the C550 from last year and it didn't have the pops I would keep it. The PQ really is crisp and although I haven't seen 3d yet...the 2d-3d is outstanding. I really think all the manufacturers are trying to improve 3d by making their TVs brighter to compensate for dimmer 3d. I think they have introduced some bugs that need to be taken care of once the 'data' comes in i.e. complaints.

I suppose I will just have to wait until the VT30 comes out along with the professional reviews (which damnit...seem to be taking forever) of the LGs and Samsungs to make my purchase decision. As far as blacks go I am thinking they are at or slightly below the B860 which is just sad so something must be amiss. I refuse to believe every company is going backwards intentionally.
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post #352 of 1920 Old 04-14-2011, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aletuner View Post

The D550 series doesn't have any "Eco Sensors" which automatically adjust levels due to room conditions.

If you go back and read the posts by myself and others, you will find that we have done all kinds of test settings including all options such as Dynamic Contrast on/off, black level adjustments set to off, low, medium, high, etc. Cinema mode, normal mode, etc.

No combination of settings will get rid of this problem. They can shift them to appear elsewhere in the content, but they will not solve the issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssengine1885 View Post

The D550 does have Eco sensors that automatically adjust levels they are under "Plug & Play/Eco Solution/Eco Saving & Eco sensor". Both are off on my PN64D550 and I have not had any spikes. I am a first time plasma owner but I think my blacks are fine. I fallowed some settings I found on the first couple of pages in this thread.

Seams you merely missed the setting Aletuner. See if turning them off help any.

I also have Eco Sensor and Energy Saving turned off (System "Plug & Play">Eco Solution> ) and have not had any spikes either. I turned them off when I first setup the tv so I dont know if there was any brightness fluctuations while the setttings were set to "on" or not.

I believe this may be the culprit causing everyones problem tho. The large screen during bright scenes is illuminating the room thus confusing the sensor causing it to boots the brightness up. During darker scenes it's tuning the levels back down again.

My question is, is there any reason to go into the service menu?
I've an PN51D550. I know that the 2011 Samsung Plasma line-up mentions that the 6 series receives "Advanced Calibration Options" over the 5 Series and was wondering if they could be activated through the service menu?
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post #353 of 1920 Old 04-14-2011, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by faaeng View Post

Seams you merely missed the setting Aletuner. See if turning them off help any.

I also have Eco Sensor and Energy Saving turned off (System "Plug & Play">Eco Solution> ) and have not had any spikes either. I turned them off when I first setup the tv so I dont know if there was any brightness fluctuations while the setttings were set to "on" or not.

I believe this may be the culprit causing everyones problem tho. The large screen during bright scenes is illuminating the room thus confusing the sensor causing it to boots the brightness up. During darker scenes it's tuning the levels back down again.

My question is, is there any reason to go into the service menu?
I've an PN51D550. I know that the 2011 Samsung Plasma line-up mentions that the 6 series receives "Advanced Calibration Options" over the 5 Series and was wondering if they could be activated through the service menu?

Yep, I double checked last night and my PN59D550 does have an Eco Sensor mode in the advanced options menu. I did have this turned off which I must have done at the initial setup then never bothered with it again since I would never rely on a feature like this.

All... and I do mean all... "automatic" or "dynamic" features on my set are set to off. I even turned off features that have nothing to do with the picture.

It certainly seems like there is an issue with some of these features not being disabled even though you set them to off in your menus. I'd be very interested to find out if there is a way to disable them via the service menu. I absolutely love my D550. It has exceptional blacks (all you complaining about them obviously have some issue that is interfering with your sets capabilities), the 3-D is great, and the overall picture quality is jaw dropping. I would love to keep this set if there were only some way to get rid of the pops.

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post #354 of 1920 Old 04-14-2011, 08:38 AM
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I've had Eco sensor both on and off and it didn't make a difference--for the pops. Turning C.S. on is the only noticeable improvement I've had outside of adjusting the brightness, gamma, and contrast settings.
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post #355 of 1920 Old 04-14-2011, 02:59 PM
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I too find that the black levels are really great on this set. I wonder if people have the brightness level on way too high.
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post #356 of 1920 Old 04-14-2011, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Aletuner View Post

Yep, I double checked last night and my PN59D550 does have an Eco Sensor mode in the advanced options menu. I did have this turned off which I must have done at the initial setup then never bothered with it again since I would never rely on a feature like this.

All... and I do mean all... "automatic" or "dynamic" features on my set are set to off. I even turned off features that have nothing to do with the picture.

It certainly seems like there is an issue with some of these features not being disabled even though you set them to off in your menus. I'd be very interested to find out if there is a way to disable them via the service menu. I absolutely love my D550. It has exceptional blacks (all you complaining about them obviously have some issue that is interfering with your sets capabilities), the 3-D is great, and the overall picture quality is jaw dropping. I would love to keep this set if there were only some way to get rid of the pops.

Man that truly blows. I thought for sure those two settings would be the culprit. It would've just made so much sense for it to be that. You know?
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post #357 of 1920 Old 04-15-2011, 06:44 AM
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Well there is hope... I stated a poll in this section to find out if all "D" series owners are having this issue. There seems to be lots of people that don't. I'll be returning my 59D550 and going with a 59D6500 in the hopes that between changing models and getting a new set, I'll no longer have this problem.

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post #358 of 1920 Old 04-15-2011, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aletuner View Post

Well there is hope... I stated a poll in this section to find out if all "D" series owners are having this issue. There seems to be lots of people that don't. I'll be returning my 59D550 and going with a 59D6500 in the hopes that between changing models and getting a new set, I'll no longer have this problem.

I'm almost positive this is caused by an auto-adjusting "eco" option that we'll be able to turn off in a service/advanced menu at some point. Don't know how to access it, or if it will become available in an update, but I'm hopeful.

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post #359 of 1920 Old 04-15-2011, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

I'm almost positive this is caused by an auto-adjusting "eco" option that we'll be able to turn off in a service/advanced menu at some point. Don't know how to access it, or if it will become available in an update, but I'm hopeful.

If this is the case then it would possibly explain why some people do not have the problem. The problem could vary based on the installation locations and the ambient light and reflective light properties where the set is installed at. For example a set that is on a stand with plenty of room for the light that spills out from panel to travel without reflecting off anything may react differently than a TV that is wall mounted and surrounded by walls that are painted light in color.

Perhaps a good test might be to rig up a black cardboard backdrop that could be temporarily placed around the entire perimeter of the tv which would limit the amount of refected light back to the "eco sensor".
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post #360 of 1920 Old 04-15-2011, 10:09 AM
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My only other hypothesis is this is something that plagues sets when you put it in Movie mode as opposed to Standard. Perhaps Movie uses some wacky auto-contrast leveling algorithm while Standard doesn't. I'm pretty sure that all of the options available to you in Movie mode are also offered in Standard. I'll test this tonight.

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