Official Samsung 2011 PNxxD7000 Thread - Page 134 - AVS Forum
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post #3991 of 4123 Old 04-25-2012, 09:57 AM
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That's right - a panel replacement will come with logic firmware (because it is panel-specific). They do not usually replace the main board for this repair, which is where your normal firmware resides, so it will not change.

So, after a panel swap, you will have to use the emulator to update the logic board manually if you've already installed 1014.6 or 1015. Check your logic version first of course and make sure it is the old version as listed on zoyd's fix page.
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post #3992 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

That's right - a panel replacement will come with logic firmware (because it is panel-specific). They do not usually replace the main board for this repair, which is where your normal firmware resides, so it will not change.

So, after a panel swap, you will have to use the emulator to update the logic board manually if you've already installed 1014.6 or 1015. Check your logic version first of course and make sure it is the old version as listed on zoyd's fix page.

Well the Samsung Tech came out and replaced my panel with a 12-19-11 manufacture panel. My main board is already on firmware 1015 so there is no going back unless they replace it. Is there any difference in firmware 1014.6 & 1015 besides the logic update?

I checked the sw on the logic after he installed the panel is states 11-07-14.

I'm guessing thats an older version since it doesn't match the updated one in Zoyd's thread of 11-11-04.

Should I use the communicator & apply the update like I did before?
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post #3993 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 06:46 AM
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Huh, interesting. Seems to be an even older logic version, so I don't see why not. But since it's not documented, you may want to live with it a bit just to get a feel for how it behaves. It should still be updatable using zoyd's method, but you might want to post in the FBr fix thread to get more feedback.
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post #3994 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

That's right - a panel replacement will come with logic firmware (because it is panel-specific). They do not usually replace the main board for this repair, which is where your normal firmware resides, so it will not change.

So, after a panel swap, you will have to use the emulator to update the logic board manually if you've already installed 1014.6 or 1015. Check your logic version first of course and make sure it is the old version as listed on zoyd's fix page.

WOW - The difference in attitude here on the Sammy forum is amazing. Nothing but regrets and frustration and disgust--compared to the Panny boards. They are all - happy -awed -thrilled and amazed at their new plasmas. Just an observation.
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post #3995 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 07:58 AM
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That's an exaggeration, but I can see how you might get that impression. We just want a reference picture (which Samsung delivers better than Panasonic, IMO) in a well designed TV (which is where Samsung falls behind, IMO).
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post #3996 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 08:47 AM
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Owning both 2010 Panny and a 2011 Sammy plasmas and having followed the threads for both of them for quite some time, my impression is that there really isn't a significant difference in the level of complaints/issues. The Panasonic threads were full of floating blacks and buzzing issues and the Samsung threads are full of brightness pops/Fbr and buzzing issues. Ignore the brand names and model numbers and you probably could not tell the difference between the two discussions.

From my own perspective, I am generally satisfied with both displays, but overall the Samsung has been a better experience. My Panasonic never exhibited floating blacks as long as it was in Cinema mode (my natural choice, anyway), and it did not buzz at all. It did, however, have a serious issue where near black video exhibited horizontal streaking that took multiple service calls and an eventual SS board swap to correct. It also has the worst IR I have ever seen... even just 5 seconds of menu display or my receiver's logo splash will be retained for 30 minutes or more.

I updated the logic firmware on my 51D7000 the day I received it and have never seen any brightness pops. It also does not buzz and I have seen not the slightest trace of IR under any circumstance. I can induce noticeable/obvious ABL artifacts only with "artificial" means such as moving a white PC window in and out of the image area (an HTPC is one of its sources)... it may be there with some "real" video but it never calls attention to itself.

As far as PQ and "calibratibilty", the Samsung is significantly better than the Panasonic.

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post #3997 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

That's an exaggeration, but I can see how you might get that impression. We just want a reference picture (which Samsung delivers better than Panasonic, IMO) in a well designed TV (which is where Samsung falls behind, IMO).

Good points-I guess my observation wasnt even fair, in that I was referring to the new 2012 Panasonics which seem to be relativley problem free .Can you compare the ST50 to the new Sammy 7000 or even the 6500? (in picture quality) ------I have not seen them side by side. Thanks
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post #3998 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 01:27 PM
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Well, I'd say it's still much too early to tell what problems may surface with the 2012 sets, but so far the Panasonics are looking good. I'm happy with my 2011 D7000, so I haven't been looking closely at the 2012 models. Katz at cnet gives pretty accurate comparisons of the Panasonics and Samsungs, so I would start there.
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post #3999 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 01:32 PM
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My opinion after working with both displays in 2011 is that sammy had the clear edge in picture quality (especially 2D), winning out based on color accuracy, ease of calibration and uniformity. My prediction for 2012 is that panny will win out with a new driving system that appears to have increased peak whites quite a bit and will have the best blacks even in their budget models, it remains to be seen whether the uniformity problems have been eliminated. In general the sammys do better in the processing department but not as well in build quality and black level.
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post #4000 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

My opinion after working with both displays in 2011 is that sammy had the clear edge in picture quality (especially 2D), winning out based on color accuracy, ease of calibration and uniformity. My prediction for 2012 is that panny will win out with a new driving system that appears to have increased peak whites quite a bit and will have the best blacks even in their budget models, it remains to be seen whether the uniformity problems have been eliminated. In general the sammys do better in the processing department but not as well in build quality and black level.

Well said--- honest, straightforward and very helpful. Thanks.
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post #4001 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 02:15 PM
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Oh yes, thanks zoyd, ease of calibration was definitely a major factor for me when I went with Samsung. If you think you might want to go the DIY route for grayscale and color calibration, then you should certainly consider Samsung. There is a very nice tutorial in this thread to walk you through it.
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post #4002 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Oh yes, thanks zoyd, ease of calibration was definitely a major factor for me when I went with Samsung. If you think you might want to go the DIY route for grayscale and color calibration, then you should certainly consider Samsung. There is a very nice tutorial in this thread to walk you through it.

Thanks AvidHiker- if you are talking to me- but about as far as I think I want to go for calibration is following the pros settings here on AVS and maybe tweaking a little from their baseline for my own room- I really dont know a grayscale from a lizard scale. If I really screw it up I can always get it Pro calibrated.
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post #4003 of 4123 Old 04-27-2012, 11:52 PM
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Dayum...I just adjusted my settings to match Chad B's settings in the above-quoted post. I did lower the contrast a bit. With that done, I can say that the picture is POPPIN'! (In a good way...not the fBr way).

Watching Avatar and it really does have a 3D look to it and I'm just watching the 2D blu ray. Just a wicked great picture.

I love this freaking panel.

I posted that a couple of months ago. I just got my panel pro calibrated (PN59D7000)....and I guess what they say is true. When you have someone who knows what they're doing calibrating your TV, it's totally worth the cost, even if it isn't exactly cheap...

Now my picture is so good it's kinda creepy sometimes (still getting used to how realistic it is).

Ownership experience is still going well.

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post #4004 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by RSTitleExaminer View Post

I posted that a couple of months ago. I just got my panel pro calibrated....and I guess what they say is true. When you have someone who knows what they're doing calibrating your TV, it's totally worth the cost, even if it isn't exactly cheap...

Now my picture is so good it's kinda creepy sometimes (still getting used to how realistic it is).

Ownership experience is still going well.

If your calibrator is active at AVS then please use the edit command to add his AVS user name to your report. After you do that, I'll add a link to your report in the calibration report lists that are linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.
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post #4005 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 12:55 AM
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If your calibrator is active at AVS then please use the edit command to add his AVS user name to your report. After you do that, I'll add a link to your report in the calibration report lists that are linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.

Sorry...he isn't active on the forums. I did, however, post a review in the Customer Reports thread where I gave his web link.

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post #4006 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 04:06 AM
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Sorry...he isn't active on the forums. I did, however, post a review in the Customer Reports thread where I gave his web link.

If you were using someone else's settings before the calibration the "before" pdf tells the story of what a useless endeavor it is.

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post #4007 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 12:23 PM
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If you were using someone else's settings before the calibration the "before" pdf tells the story of what a useless endeavor it is.

Very much so. I guess I had to see it to believe it, and I'm definitely a believer now.

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post #4008 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 12:42 PM
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So, RS, I see for some reason they mopped up your post in the calibration forum (which I got to read because I'm subscribed). I must say, there are a couple unusual settings in there!

Just a quick note for you - the reason we calibrate in Movie mode is because it defaults to most of the processing being turned off and uses the warm 2 color tone . Warm 2 is closest to d65, so minimizes the adjustments required. Your calibrator could have easily given you more "pop" in movie mode, plus you would have the advantage of 10pt adjustment. What he did with standard mode (disabling all processing, and hopefully eco settings, and switching to warm 2), essentially makes it the equivalent of movie mode, but with 10pt disabled. Anyway, glad you like the results.
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post #4009 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

So, RS, I see for some reason they mopped up your post in the calibration forum (which I got to read because I'm subscribed). I must say, there are a couple unusual settings in there!

Just a quick note for you - the reason we calibrate in Movie mode is because it defaults to most of the processing being turned off and uses the warm 2 color tone . Warm 2 is closest to d65, so minimizes the adjustments required. Your calibrator could have easily given you more "pop" in movie mode, plus you would have the advantage of 10pt adjustment. What he did with standard mode (disabling all processing, and hopefully eco settings, and switching to warm 2), essentially makes it the equivalent of movie mode, but with 10pt disabled. Anyway, glad you like the results.

Yeah, I posted my settings, then deleted them because it really is kind of fruitless to enter someone else's settings.

He calibrated in standard mode for a few reasons, but I think that's probably not a discussion for the general owner forum.

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post #4010 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 03:33 PM
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Well, I'm sure quite a few folks would be interested in the reasoning over in the calibration thread, though it's certainly not off topic here either IMO. Enlighten us!
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post #4011 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 03:43 PM
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Yeah, in particular, I would like to see your pre-cal settings. I can't imagine copying any calibrated settings of the same model would move the color temperature up into the 8000K range. In my experience, that is just impossible. I've copied all the published settings for the D7000 and measured the results. None of them showed that magnitude of change -- no where near it.

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post #4012 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Well, I'm sure quite a few folks would be interested in the reasoning over in the calibration thread, though it's certainly not off topic here either IMO. Enlighten us!

Well, my calibrator made what I believe to be an honest mistake. He read the manual for the my sammy, and when he calibrated, he wasn't aware that there was a custom color space option. And yes, I truly believe it was an honest mistake. The guy is the president of a company here in Dallas who does home theaters. He didn't need to come out himself for an inhouse calibration which didn't involve a home theater / projector setup, but I sounded so enthusiastic about getting this done when I called to book an appointment, he wanted to do it himself. So, he just wasn't familiar with my particular model of TV.

Instead of doing the calibration in movie mode, my first calibration was done in standard mode, with native color space.

I didn't think about getting a copy of the calibration report right after his first calibration, because I was so stunned by the change. My picture was popping...a ton. Very 3D like quality. Well, I finally got a copy of the calibration report and showed why it was popping. My colors were off...red and green, highly saturated. But, I gotta admit, I really enjoyed it.

But, my report was telling me things were wrong, and I couldn't get over that. So, I told the calibrator I was dissatisfied, and he came back out to do another calibration. But, I enjoyed the quasi-3D effect so much, so, to retain it I thought the calibration had to be in standard mode.

So, I asked if that was possible, and he said sure thing, and it was done.

That was my bad, as I didn't now the importance of 10 pt white balance calibration until I looked it up, after my second calibration. Hey, that's me being a novice, and a calibrator giving the customer what he wants, especially a dissatisfied customer whose opinion he's trying to change. He just gave me what I asked for.

And when he was done, he sat down in my viewing position and tweaked my color saturation and flesh tone settings to get a nice balance between my cable feed and some blu ray content (so, things are skewed from the post cal chart results anyhow)

And the end result is pretty darn great, even if all the things that could have been tweaked, weren't. Totally worth the price, and I can say I am totally satisfied. The picture definitely seems more natural as the difference in sharpness between those things in focus in the foreground and out of focus in the background aren't as stark. The prior calibration did make things pop, but it just felt unnatural. It made films look like they were live TV.

Now, I feel like I'm watching a movie when I'm watching a movie, and I'm loving my display right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Yeah, in particular, I would like to see your pre-cal settings. I can't imagine copying any calibrated settings of the same model would move the color temperature up into the 8000K range. In my experience, that is just impossible. I've copied all the published settings for the D7000 and measured the results. None of them showed that magnitude of change -- no where near it.

Larry

I was using a mash up of white balance and 10 pt. white balance I found on the D7000/8000 calibration/settings forum, and Chad B's pro calibration that a user posted. I guess I found the perfect formula for an unbelievably bad picture.

Picture mode:
movie
screen adj: screen fit
Contrast 81
Brigthness 64
Cell Light 20
Sharpness 10
Tint 50/50
Gamma -1
FleshTone 0
advanced:color space custom ﴾r40,68,50 g100,51,0 b0,53,52 y41,50,86 c100,53,67 m45,100,61﴿
White Balance
r-off 28
g-off 22
b-off 22
r-gain 27
g-gain 22
b-gain 22
10-pt
r1 0
g1 0
b1 1
r2 -1
g2 0
b2 0
r3 -1
g3 0
b3 0
r4 -1
g4 0
b4 0
r5 -2
g5 0
b5 1
r6 -2
g6 1
b6 0
r7 0
g7 0
b7 0
r8 -2
g8 0
b8 2
r9 1
g9 0
b9 -1
r10 0
g10 1
b10 -1

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post #4013 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 05:34 PM
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RS,

Okay, so now I understand what happened.

The one setting that you left out of your one-from-column-A-and-one-from-column-B listing is color temperature (color tone in Samsung jargon.) To get that measurement up into the 8000 to 9000K range, you must have used the Standard color temperature. Out of the box, Movie with Warm2 will get you closest to the film and TV specification which calls for about 6500K.

One other point: A gamma setting of -1 on the D7000 is very unusual. Most calibrations on the D7000 for a measured gamma of about 2.22 end up with a gamma setting of +1. A setting of -1 increases that to about 2.4 which yields too dark a picture for most owners.

Larry
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post #4014 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

RS,

Okay, so now I understand what happened.

The one setting that you left out of your one-from-column-A-and-one-from-column-B listing is color temperature (color tone in Samsung jargon.) To get that measurement up into the 8000 to 9000K range, you must have used the Standard color temperature. Out of the box, Movie with Warm2 will get you closest to the film and TV specification which calls for about 6500K.

One other point: A gamma setting of -1 on the D7000 is very unusual. Most calibrations on the D7000 for a measured gamma of about 2.22 end up with a gamma setting of +1. A setting of -1 increases that to about 2.4 which yields too dark a picture for most owners.

Larry

Yeah, I forgot about that. The pre-calibration readings were was taken after the calibrator switched over to standard mode. I was in movie mode prior to calibrating. As for gamma, the calibrator was going for 2.4, ended up with 2.38 (without 10 pt calibration). I'm in a very dim to complete dark setting, most of the time (I have blackout curtains) and the calibrated settings allow me to watch TV pretty comfortably, even with high contrast and cell light, which I couldn't handle before. With my old settings, having contrast cranked up to 99 and cell light to 20 would cause eye fatigue pretty quickly.

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post #4015 of 4123 Old 04-28-2012, 06:16 PM
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RS,

That makes sense. I need a gamma of about 2.2 (gamma setting of +1) during the day and about 2.3 (gamma setting of 0) with my near dark night viewing conditions. With a room as dark as yours, I might use the -1 setting also.

EDIT: I just looked at your cal report again. Nice job and he gave you a very bright picture of almost 45 ftL -- way to bright for me but each person has his own threshold for eye fatigue.

Larry
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post #4016 of 4123 Old 05-01-2012, 04:51 AM
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It would be fun just for fun to see how good my settings are. the black levels have frustrated me a bit with this tv. Not as much the maximum black but greyscale I should say rather perhaps. My PS 3 which I reported is probably acting up give a to dark picture no matter what with crushed details in the black. My Sony BDP-S370 is just horrible in this regard with bluish tints in dark scenes and it´s somewhat uneven and not impressive at all. One of the reason I actually enjoyed the 2D/3D conversion more then I should to regain some depth in the picture. The improved contrast also seem to help 3D movies except for being able to adjust depth on my bluray player as well.

Nice to finally after so many month finally getting to see what it´s capable off. Funny thing is I haven´t touched calibration or tried any calibration discs because no matter what movie I put in I have such a problem finding faults in the picture. Spent so many hours on the PS3 and 370.

Little risk any pro calibrator will get to see this
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post #4017 of 4123 Old 05-01-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTitleExaminer View Post

And when he was done, he sat down in my viewing position and tweaked my color saturation and flesh tone settings to get a nice balance between my cable feed and some blu ray content (so, things are skewed from the post cal chart results anyhow)

Where did you end up with the fleshtone setting? I was playing around with some new patterns from this thread which contain 2 fleshtone windows with target x,y. On my D8000 negative fleshtone moves y toward yellow (positive toward pink). The total movement possible is ~0.03, anyway to align to the test pattern required a setting of -10. The change is subtle but if you do an A/B comparison using D/N mode for instance the -10 setting looks better.
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post #4018 of 4123 Old 05-01-2012, 10:45 PM
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Hoping to soon be a happy owner of the PN64D7000. Worried about the install height though. I have two young boys. Don't want to install that low as eye level would be at about 36"-40". Having the bottom of panel at about 25". Interested in attaching to the sanus vlt15.

Thanks for all the help. Should arrive from amazon may 7th.

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post #4019 of 4123 Old 05-09-2012, 03:32 AM
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I'm about to pull the trigger on a plasma TV. I've spent about 3 weeks researching and studying plasma's and the latest technology. I'm looking to spend about $1800. The choice has narrowed to two models, the Samsung PN59D7000 and the Panasonic TC-P60ST50. I've spent hours staring at both models on BB's, Fry's electronics and Sears trying to see and hear what the difference, pro's and cons are for both these models. I'm not looking at the 2012 models from Samsung "e7000 and e8000, too expensive and I think that the D7000 looks just as good as the E7000.

During my research online I've read a lot about the "Samsung Buzz" that seems to run rampant in their plasma's but while in the stores, I couldn't hear any buzz, I put my ears right up against the glass panel and I do hear a buzz coming from the panel but I'm told that its normal, what I was looking for was any abnormal buzzing that would be irksome and irritating and I couldn't hear any. I live in Los Angeles CA so I'm right about at sea level for the most part so perhaps that may have something to do with it as plasma are supposed to buzz louder at higher altitudes.

After comparing the Samsung PN59D7000 to the Panasonic TC-P60ST50, to my eye's, the Samsung looks better. It has more clarity, detail and it looks a little brighter than the Panasonic but it's a close comparison between the two. The Panasonic TC-PST30 from last year were criticized for being to dim, i guess Panasonic has made the ST50 a little better in contrast this year but the D7OOO looks brighter to me. The pro reviews from CNET and others like the Panasonic ST50 but I can't get over liking the D7000. I've decided to go ahead and try the D7000. Yes, I know about the buzzing, brightness POP's and banding issues that where reported. There is supposed to be a firmware upgrade that fixes some of that.

I'm willing to give the D7000 a chance because of it's outstanding picture quality so I'm going to order one from Crutchfield.com and see what happens and when I get it delivered and set up I'm going to look and listen very closely for any abnormal sights or sounds coming from the panel, if anything comes up that can't be easily fixed then back to Crutchfield's it goes as they have a 60 day return policy which should be enough time to tell whether or not I got a bad unit or not and I will order the ST50 but I'd like your take on this and any other opinions that you have regarding these two models. You replies will be appreciated.
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post #4020 of 4123 Old 05-10-2012, 07:16 AM
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About to buy a new set, maybe, because of the olympic games and the Eurocup 2012 soccer. Sometimes I watch TV at someone elses 50 " samsung b550. Just curious if the 59" d7000 looks brighter and have noticeably better blacks. That b550 isnt bad in anyway, rather quite good, but I find the blacklevel to be darkgray and the brightness is adequte for certain material such as soccerfootball but not very much more than that.

I want my next TV to have "smell the glove"-blacklevel. I got me an st50 and I think I can smell some leather in a not too far away distance somewhere.
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