Official Samsung 2011 PNxxD7000 Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 4123 Old 03-25-2011, 05:37 PM
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The D7000 looks pretty nice in your pictures. Samsung's marketing photos made it look really tacky.
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post #32 of 4123 Old 03-25-2011, 05:38 PM
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Might have something to do with how power efficient the new panel is- they tried to copy real black drive so that they could reduce energy. I think there is this big race towards enhanced power efficiency due to plasma restrictions in California for Energy Star 5.0

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
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post #33 of 4123 Old 03-25-2011, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

Might have something to do with how power efficient the new panel is- they tried to copy real black drive so that they could reduce energy. I think there is this big race towards enhanced power efficiency due to plasma restrictions in California for Energy Star 5.0

so give California their power efficieny and let the rest of the country get the best panels (image quality)
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post #34 of 4123 Old 03-25-2011, 07:55 PM
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Hi Koffas.
It is very odd that black level reports seem to be all over the place again like in 2010 from owners. I still own my pn58c8000 and I love the PQ on it. I was thinking weeks ago about Craigs listing it for a 2011 with all the changes Samsung promised. I am now going to hold onto the c8000 until there are firmware upgrades and more reviews. Honestly, I wanted the upgrade for the Cinema Smooth MLL fix but... That coupled with the feedback of increased gaming lag really made me revisit this decision (I game a ton and love my current setup). It is too early to tell and I need to see more data from more people to justify dumping my current set until I know the "D" series is an upgrade instead of a lateral move or worse for my "gaming" and viewing needs.

I was just curious if you compared your C7000 and D7000 in a pitch black room for black levels. The reason I ask is that the Real Black Filter does an amazing job enhancing perceived contrast and blacks with even slight light in the room on my C8000. Since last years C7000 didn't have this feature and this years D7000's do, that would definitely impact perceived blacks on your two sets. I was just confirming your conditions to get a handle on your normal viewing environment.

I thank you for your updates and value your opinion, so please keep us informed. I may still choose to upgrade to the "D" lineup once the dust has settled. Right now I am just proud to have a Sammy plasma that puts a smile on my face each evening.
Take care my friend and thanks again for the updates.
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post #35 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punisherofall View Post

Hi Koffas.
It is very odd that black level reports seem to be all over the place again like in 2010 from owners. I still own my pn58c8000 and I love the PQ on it. I was thinking weeks ago about Craigs listing it for a 2011 with all the changes Samsung promised. I am now going to hold onto the c8000 until there are firmware upgrades and more reviews. Honestly, I wanted the upgrade for the Cinema Smooth MLL fix but... That coupled with the feedback of increased gaming lag really made me revisit this decision (I game a ton and love my current setup). It is too early to tell and I need to see more data from more people to justify dumping my current set until I know the "D" series is an upgrade instead of a lateral move or worse for my "gaming" and viewing needs.

I was just curious if you compared your C7000 and D7000 in a pitch black room for black levels. The reason I ask is that the Real Black Filter does an amazing job enhancing perceived contrast and blacks with even slight light in the room on my C8000. Since last years C7000 didn't have this feature and this years D7000's do, that would definitely impact perceived blacks on your two sets. I was just confirming your conditions to get a handle on your normal viewing environment.

I thank you for your updates and value your opinion, so please keep us informed. I may still choose to upgrade to the "D" lineup once the dust has settled. Right now I am just proud to have a Sammy plasma that puts a smile on my face each evening.
Take care my friend and thanks again for the updates.

Hey punisher,

The more things change...

Every year brings incremental improvements, but nothing revolutionary until a new display tech emerges. If you're happy with your C8000, I would resist the itch to upgrade... even if black levels (on the larger panels) are confirmed to be halved or gaming lag is reduced (I thought I read it had been in the 2011 Samsung lineup thread). Of course it's a value argument... I buy a set every ~5 years.

I was able to directly compare the C7000 and D7000 in daylight (pic in OP). The RBF definately helps preserve contrast by filtering out nasty off-axis ceiling reflection. The only caveat is it's more reflective, so if you have a open window directly in back of your viewing position, it would be more obnoxious. However, at night, with the recessed lighting turned on, it's a great improvement. The wife is happy that the family room can stay well-lit. I can retreat to my projector room bat cave otherwise.
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post #36 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

Hey punisher,

The more things change...

Every year brings incremental improvements, but nothing revolutionary until a new display tech emerges. If you're happy with your C8000, I would resist the itch to upgrade... even if black levels (on the larger panels) are confirmed to be halved or gaming lag is reduced (I thought I read it had been in the 2011 Samsung lineup thread). Of course it's a value argument... I buy a set every ~5 years.

I was able to directly compare the C7000 and D7000 in daylight (pic in OP). The RBF definately helps preserve contrast by filtering out nasty off-axis ceiling reflection. The only caveat is it's more reflective, so if you have a open window directly in back of your viewing position, it would be more obnoxious. However, at night, with the recessed lighting turned on, it's a great improvement. The wife is happy that the family room can stay well-lit. I can retreat to my projector room bat cave otherwise.

Thanks for the clarification; I have my C8000 in my "small" 11*15 foot bat cave which is now completely treated for light. I watch my C8000 in the dark sans wife (lighted with wife) in the evening, that was my reason for the original question; I am however still curious of the black levels of a C7000 or C8000 vs a D7000 in a completely dark room. I have my seating against the 15 foot wall so in my current setup I sit exactly 8 feet away, IMHO the 58 was the perfect balance of WAF and correct viewing size.

I agree about trying to chase tech upgrades is a losing battle, but I have always been an early adopter and often upgrade more than most. I have decided as you stated to continue to enjoy my current set up, so thanks for the feedback.

Now, about that projector thing and my need for a "larger" bat cave...
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post #37 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punisherofall View Post

Hi Koffas.
It is very odd that black level reports seem to be all over the place again like in 2010 from owners. I still own my pn58c8000 and I love the PQ on it. I was thinking weeks ago about Craigs listing it for a 2011 with all the changes Samsung promised. I am now going to hold onto the c8000 until there are firmware upgrades and more reviews. Honestly, I wanted the upgrade for the Cinema Smooth MLL fix but... That coupled with the feedback of increased gaming lag really made me revisit this decision (I game a ton and love my current setup). It is too early to tell and I need to see more data from more people to justify dumping my current set until I know the "D" series is an upgrade instead of a lateral move or worse for my "gaming" and viewing needs.

I was just curious if you compared your C7000 and D7000 in a pitch black room for black levels. The reason I ask is that the Real Black Filter does an amazing job enhancing perceived contrast and blacks with even slight light in the room on my C8000. Since last years C7000 didn't have this feature and this years D7000's do, that would definitely impact perceived blacks on your two sets. I was just confirming your conditions to get a handle on your normal viewing environment.

I thank you for your updates and value your opinion, so please keep us informed. I may still choose to upgrade to the "D" lineup once the dust has settled. Right now I am just proud to have a Sammy plasma that puts a smile on my face each evening.
Take care my friend and thanks again for the updates.

Where have you read reports of lag being worse on the D's? As far as I've seen, it's just the opposite, with one user measuring 16ms in Relax mode on the D7000 (reportedly not even in Game mode). If the measurement is accurate, it's virtually impossible for the C's to be faster than that. I would be surprised if they even matched that.
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post #38 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

I was able to directly compare the C7000 and D7000 in daylight (pic in OP). The RBF definately helps preserve contrast by filtering out nasty off-axis ceiling reflection. The only caveat is it's more reflective, so if you have a open window directly in back of your viewing position, it would be more obnoxious. However, at night, with the recessed lighting turned on, it's a great improvement. The wife is happy that the family room can stay well-lit. I can retreat to my projector room bat cave otherwise.

Thanks for the info.

Maybe you could help us with our TV room: Sitting facing the TV, our den has windows on almost an entire side of the room, it gets moderately to very bright, quite often.

We do have vertical blinds that can be angled to direct a little of the light away from the screen, but that's about it; (we aren't willing to close them, typically).

Also, there are two windows on the TV wall (one to either side of the TV), and they direct sunlight towards a large art piece, covered with matte acrylic, behind our seating, which reflects onto the TV.

I had been wondering, if we could get by with less than the D7000; now it sounds like the D7000 would be just be 'different' than D6500, depending on the type and direction of lighting, at any given time.

The thing is, as I describe above, our TV room is different than your TV room, so, I don't know which TV would be better for us?
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post #39 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 01:46 PM
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Just placed my order with Abt.com as they are receiving the PN64D7000 Monday the 28th. Their package includes the glasses, etc and are a mfgr authorized dealer. Don't know if that is important or not but is reassuring in any case. Send me a PM if interested in their price.

Thanks to all on this forum as it has been a great help in resolving many issues as to what to buy and from whom.

BTW, there is also a great factory authorized deal going on right now with all Martin Logan dealers for their Motion Series speakers. I picked up 4-Motion 4's, 1-Motion-8 center and their Sub 500. BB & Abt are dealers as well as many others. I have to say that these things are truly amazing for their size and fit nicely in a small theater. Mine is 10x15. Deal ends Apr 2nd.

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post #40 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 02:54 PM
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^^^ We will be getting ours as well any day......
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post #41 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Where have you read reports of lag being worse on the D's? As far as I've seen, it's just the opposite, with one user measuring 16ms in Relax mode on the D7000 (reportedly not even in Game mode). If the measurement is accurate, it's virtually impossible for the C's to be faster than that. I would be surprised if they even matched that.

Hi Orta,
I am aware of your plasma lag thread, but someone in the D8000 thread owns both a C8000 and D8000 and goes by "david1923". He says lag in games is worse on his D series in game mode than his C series. His posts seem a little quirky though. I would never be so ignorant as to take one persons observation as fact, but it gives me reason to pause and assess more data.

Didn't the C8000 series measure 14-19 ms lag in game mode, with most reports being 16ms in game mode? As I said I do game an awful lot but am not a professional gamer, I did read multiple posts in that general ms area on the c8000 thread as well as other threads (C6500/7000/8000 owners thread I think). I doubt I (or most) could discern between 14ms or 19ms response time. I know that my C8000 is more than adequate for my gaming needs, but who knows until more reports come out how fast the D series actually is in game mode. At this point I have seen 16ms for c8000 and D7000 documented, but a quirky poster stated his D8000 is noticeably slower in game mode. Is it possible that the D8000 may lag more than the D7000?

That is the long answer to your question, I appreciate your input and enjoy gaming on Sammys as I owned a HLS6187w DLP before my plasma that was great for gaming.
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post #42 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by punisherofall View Post

Hi Orta,
I am aware of your plasma lag thread, but someone in the D8000 thread owns both a C8000 and D8000 and goes by "david1923". He says lag in games is worse on his D series in game mode than his C series. His posts seem a little quirky though.

I'd say his posts are more than a little quirky.
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post #43 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 04:06 PM
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Only thing that I am interested to hear about is 3D crosstalk improvement over C7000/8000 series.

I own a 63C7000 and the set impresses me every time I watch it and I am incredibly happy with it, only thing that bothers me is the amount of crosstalk in 3D.

Would be great if anyone could test 3D with their new D series sets and provide feedback.
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post #44 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 04:06 PM
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I'd say his posts are more than a little quirky.

I was trying to be polite in my wording, but I agree with you.
I am just not convinced at this point that the D series would be a significant difference for my viewing and gaming criteria ( I stess at this point because my guess is a firmware update could change all of this for the better).
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post #45 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hannoo View Post

Only thing that I am interested to hear about is 3D crosstalk improvement over C7000/8000 series.

I own a 63C7000 and the set impresses me every time I watch it and I am incredibly happy with it, only thing that bothers me is the amount of crosstalk in 3D.

Would be great if anyone could test 3D with their new D series sets and provide feedback.

Agreed on the crosstalk in 3d on the C8000 with one major disclaimer. I do have an astigmatism and had "lazy eye" surgery when I was very young. They never retrained my lazy eye with a prism like they do now with newer technology; for this reason my brain chooses my dominant eye in stereo vision situations. I can still see out of my weaker eye, but i have to close my dominant one.
I do still see 3d with the glasses, but I am guessing my 3d point of view is drastically different than others would see; I attribute extreme crosstalk situations to my own personal visual limitations .
The good news is that I can see it, and for someone like me who honestly has a difficult time seeing true depth, it is a cool experience.
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post #46 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by punisherofall View Post

Hi Orta,
I am aware of your plasma lag thread, but someone in the D8000 thread owns both a C8000 and D8000 and goes by "david1923". He says lag in games is worse on his D series in game mode than his C series. His posts seem a little quirky though. I would never be so ignorant as to take one persons observation as fact, but it gives me reason to pause and assess more data.

Didn't the C8000 series measure 14-19 ms lag in game mode, with most reports being 16ms in game mode? As I said I do game an awful lot but am not a professional gamer, I did read multiple posts in that general ms area on the c8000 thread as well as other threads (C6500/7000/8000 owners thread I think). I doubt I (or most) could discern between 14ms or 19ms response time. I know that my C8000 is more than adequate for my gaming needs, but who knows until more reports come out how fast the D series actually is in game mode. At this point I have seen 16ms for c8000 and D7000 documented, but a quirky poster stated his D8000 is noticeably slower in game mode. Is it possible that the D8000 may lag more than the D7000?

That is the long answer to your question, I appreciate your input and enjoy gaming on Sammys as I owned a HLS6187w DLP before my plasma that was great for gaming.

Ah yea, I tend to discount any anecdotal reports straight away. I've seen a lot of people claim known 60-80ms displays are lag free. It's possible Game Mode is slower year over year, but if Relax Mode delivers 16ms, I'm not sure it matters. I've never seen any tests on NA C-series PDP's, so I'm not exactly sure where they're at. I know there is 1 EU review site that measured a 2010 Panasonic at 10ms and a Samsung at 20ms (suggesting there was a 1 frame difference), but these type of tests almost always produce a range, so it's possible they just published the Panny's best value and the Sammy's worst. I'm more puzzled by how there are no local users posting measurements for the NA C-PDP's.
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post #47 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by koffas View Post

Full-screen whites look much nicer. Set is very bright.

so the D7000 still has that 'pop' that Samsung is known for?...much brighter then the Panasonic models
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post #48 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Thanks for the info.

Maybe you could help us with our TV room: Sitting facing the TV, our den has windows on almost an entire side of the room, it gets moderately to very bright, quite often.

We do have vertical blinds that can be angled to direct a little of the light away from the screen, but that's about it; (we aren't willing to close them, typically).

Also, there are two windows on the TV wall (one to either side of the TV), and they direct sunlight towards a large art piece, covered with matte acrylic, behind our seating, which reflects onto the TV.

I had been wondering, if we could get by with less than the D7000; now it sounds like the D7000 would be just be 'different' than D6500, depending on the type and direction of lighting, at any given time.

The thing is, as I describe above, our TV room is different than your TV room, so, I don't know which TV would be better for us?

Without ray tracing your room layout, the most practical advice I can offer is that if you're concerned with glare and have the TV in a bright room, get a display with the best AR/AG you can afford. In very bright environments, light will invariably scatter off the walls and ceiling. RBF has a higher threshold from screen wash-out in those situations. Fortunately, the better filters are not just being reserved to the flagship displays this year. So, in that respect, you're saving $$$.
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post #49 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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so the D7000 still has that 'pop' that Samsung is known for?...much brighter then the Panasonic models

It definitely pops. When you first turn on the TV, you're presented with a Smart TV logo against a black background. For a second, I thought they had delivered an LCD!
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post #50 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 08:07 PM
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It definitely pops. When you first turn on the TV, you're presented with a Smart TV logo against a black background. For a second, I thought they had delivered an LCD!

For what its worth, my wife and I were at BB today and we saw a 51D8000. She said, "thats a plasma? it doesn't look like one." I think its because of the sharpness and pop that the D series has that usually find moreso in LCD's.
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post #51 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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For what its worth, my wife and I were at BB today and we saw a 51D8000. She said, "thats a plasma? it doesn't look like one." I think its because of the sharpness and pop that the D series has that usually find moreso in LCD's.

Yeah, I saw a D8000 in Magnolia. The bezel color looked the same as the D7000 -- but the lighting is dim there so I wasn't certain. I added more pics to the OP. The appearance of the finish varies depending on how light hits it.

]

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post #52 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 08:59 PM
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judging by your pics it looks like the windows in that room have curtains only on the bottom half meaning that light will always be coming into the room during the daytime correct?...was the reason you went with the D7000 over the D8000 based on financial considerations alone or were there other factors?
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post #53 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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judging by your pics it looks like the windows in that room have curtains only on the bottom half meaning that light will always be coming into the room during the daytime correct?...was the reason you went with the D7000 over the D8000 based on financial considerations alone or were there other factors?

That's right... the windows are west-facing, so the room gets sunlight in the afternoon.

As far as D7000 vs D8000, I actually didn't have any choice in the matter. It was an exchange for my C7000 by Samsung. Their policy is to replace a TV with its most similar available model. In either case, I prefer the stand of the D7000 anyway.
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post #54 of 4123 Old 03-26-2011, 09:48 PM
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post #55 of 4123 Old 03-27-2011, 03:33 AM
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Man, that tv is freakin' beautiful. My decision comes close to final more and more each day. Thanks for the thread, koffas!
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post #56 of 4123 Old 03-27-2011, 05:27 AM
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Wow I love how this one looks! Too bad it is not being released here, but the D8000 is a nice alternative
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post #57 of 4123 Old 03-27-2011, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hannoo View Post
Only thing that I am interested to hear about is 3D crosstalk improvement over C7000/8000 series.

I own a 63C7000 and the set impresses me every time I watch it and I am incredibly happy with it, only thing that bothers me is the amount of crosstalk in 3D.

Would be great if anyone could test 3D with their new D series sets and provide feedback.
See here, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291751

Passedpawn already posted their crosstalk testing of a D6500 (on page 3). Looks to be no better than last year according to his results
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post #58 of 4123 Old 03-27-2011, 10:21 AM
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koffas do u see any rainbowing on the screen while the tv is on.?
i saw another memebers pic of his new plasma and i saw none of this.
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post #59 of 4123 Old 03-27-2011, 01:15 PM
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Hey guys, I have been following this thread and the 2011 Samsung Plasma thread as well. Last night I went to my local brandsmart and they had a great deal on the 59D7000. Lower than anything I had seen advertised anywhere. I picked it up along with the free 3d kit. They also had a smoking deal on the onkyo 608 to replace my non-3d model. I am replacing a 58" HP DLP 5880N that I have had since 2006.

Anyways, I setup my tv last night and it was a dud. Had a huge line of dead pixels going from the top of the tv all the way to the bottom, probably half an inch wide. I called the store and they didn't have any in stock, so i will probably have to wait a few days so I can exchange. I got a 5 year in-home warranty as well and the price on that was unbelievable as well.

Apart from this issue I am happy with the aesthetic look of the tv. Its simply beautiful. I played Black ops on it last night on my ps3 and had no lag whatsoever. I am not a videophile so I will defiently need help with the settings. The picture seemed a bit dark for me in movie mode but there are tons of tweaks on this thing.

Overall i am very excited with my purchase just really bummed out that I have to deal with re-packaging this thing and lugging it back to the store when they get another one in stock so I can exchange. I'm not the type of person that overreacts to these sorts of things, I understand even the highest end models of any products can be defective. I will withhold my judgment until I get a properly working set that I can enjoy for a few weeks first.
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post #60 of 4123 Old 03-27-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SikOne View Post

I'm not the type of person that overreacts to these sorts of things, .

Just wait kiddin'

Hope you get your replacement soon!
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Samsung Bd D7000 3d Blu Ray Disc Player Silver , Samsung Pn51d7000 51 Inch 1080p 600hz 3d Plasma Hdtv With Pn51d7000 Bdd5500 3d Blu Ray Player 2 Ssg
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