Official Samsung 2011 PNxxD7000 Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4127 Old 04-23-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

That looks like a typical ABL response, similar to this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhPzlBfNw_M

Anything to offset it or is that just the way it is? I just realized I had it on movie mode at the time, going to try some other settings
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post #632 of 4127 Old 04-23-2011, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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That how plasma tech works. Just make sure your cell light is at 20 -- that sets the threshold for the ABL.
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post #633 of 4127 Old 04-23-2011, 01:48 PM
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Weird, my Pioneer plasma never did any such thing or it was just so much less pronounced it wasn't noticeable.
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post #634 of 4127 Old 04-23-2011, 03:07 PM
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Hey couple of things, I just order this tv and was wondering:

1. Is there any Service Menu Timer (like with Panasonic) to keep an eye on how many hours I've had the TV on for/broken in?

2. Reading the manual online I saw Samsung recommends 4" space in all directions for proper ventilation, my old entertainment unit should barely fit the TV...But it will be open backed, think that will that provide sufficient ventilation?
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post #635 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jaychamp View Post

Here's a quick video taken with my phone so the quality isn't great. Notice too that when I maximize the mostly white window how dim it gets. I'm guessing this why a poster was getting the gray looking ice when playing NHL

http://youtu.be/UsoOHv2Ow1M

What color is your background supposed to be? It looks like it is getting WAY to bright to be black, or even gray. I would look at your settings and make sure you don't have some dynamic contrast turned on, or your brightness/contrast cranked up way to high.
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post #636 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 06:35 AM
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Any suggestions for the easiest route (fewest steps) for wirelessly displaying movies taken on my iphone onto the tv?
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post #637 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 07:12 AM
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Apple TV via Airplay... $99 Very nice. I have one connected to my 51D7000...
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post #638 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by knmlee View Post

Apple TV via Airplay... $99 Very nice. I have one connected to my 51D7000...

Totally agree. Sweet device, great sound. Can stream videos, movies, pics on ur iPhone or PC Mac iTunes library. U don't have to get the new movies on iTunes but that a definite bonus!!!!
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post #639 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseybeemer View Post

Any suggestions for the easiest route (fewest steps) for wirelessly displaying movies taken on my iphone onto the tv?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knmlee View Post

Apple TV via Airplay... $99 Very nice. I have one connected to my 51D7000...

Free app called imedia share. Then please send $50 of that $99 to me.
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post #640 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 10:30 AM
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Free app called imedia share. Then please send $50 of that $99 to me.

Imediashare does the trick, thanks!
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post #641 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMM. View Post

What color is your background supposed to be? It looks like it is getting WAY to bright to be black, or even gray. I would look at your settings and make sure you don't have some dynamic contrast turned on, or your brightness/contrast cranked up way to high.

Background is a medium gray, it might not translate too well with the quality of the video. I'm just using the default Movie setting and haven't changed anything, and all dynamic settings are turned off. I don't think anything is set too high because the PQ is excellent overall especially w/blacks and dark scenes.

I watched NHL on HD last night and it did look kind of dull but not too bad. Lowering contrast and/or brightness just made it worse
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post #642 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jerseybeemer View Post

Imediashare does the trick, thanks!

Ain't it cool? No hardware, no wires, no input changes, and no big profit to Apple!
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post #643 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ItzMe View Post

Ain't it cool? No hardware, no wires, no input changes, and no big profit to Apple!

lol I was gonna reply basically the same thing, "and you didn't have to give any more of your hard earned money to Steve Jobs" but figured it would just start a war
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post #644 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanVanVan View Post

Hey couple of things, I just order this tv and was wondering:

1. Is there any Service Menu Timer (like with Panasonic) to keep an eye on how many hours I've had the TV on for/broken in?

2. Reading the manual online I saw Samsung recommends 4" space in all directions for proper ventilation, my old entertainment unit should barely fit the TV...But it will be open backed, think that will that provide sufficient ventilation?

1) Yes, there's a timer on the service menu.

2) As long as there's breathing room in the back (and front), I wouldn't worry. These plasmas are fanless and rely on convective heat tranfser through the panel.
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post #645 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

That looks like a typical ABL response, similar to this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhPzlBfNw_M

Oh, so this is typical? I'm the one that was complaining about this sort of dimming earlier in this thread and have not found a fix since. Does this ABL thing also brighten darks that are too intense, because I see my darks strangly become greyer in some scenes too.

Is there any way to turn this setting off?
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post #646 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetherin View Post

Oh, so this is typical? I'm the one that was complaining about this sort of dimming earlier in this thread and have not found a fix since. Does this ABL thing also brighten darks that are too intense, because I see my darks strangly become greyer in some scenes too.

Is there any way to turn this setting off?

The ABL is designed to prevent an overcurrent (it takes a lot of juice to fire up all the RGB pixels and produce white). It's a hard-wired circuit that can't be disabled from the menu. That being said, these plasmas are brighter picture than last year's. ChadB measured ~55 fL in his review of the 51D8000 (50-60 fL is considered good for a bright room).

The ABL doesn't impact the depth of black. It affects frames that have a high APL / high percentage of white in them (e.g., hockey games). Though Samsung is floating the black level this year, I'm not sure if this is what you're seeing. It's subtle and ChadB didn't observe it in his review. Sometimes the depth of black will look different based on the immediate surroundings -- e.g., black lettering on a white background will look darker than black lettering on a gray background, similar to the optical illusion below.

Is A darker than B?

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post #647 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 02:52 PM
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Ok I'll bite. I'd say the A square is darker. Of course what would be bothersome would be if it changed while I was looking at the board, no?

Follow up question: Does the evidence so far say that Zetherin's issue may exist on both the D7000 and D8000s? Any difference?
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post #648 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 02:59 PM
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Yeah its a trick question they're actually the same color. Although koffas, shouldn't the question be is B darker then A? With the summary you wrote above it seems the lighter square background (B) should make B appear darker then A with its gray background...but maybe I'm forgetting it's the shadow thats supposed to cause the effect..
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post #649 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItzMe View Post

Ok I'll bite. I'd say the A square is darker. Of course what would be bothersome would be if it changed while I was looking at the board, no?

Follow up question: Does the evidence so far say that Zetherin's issue may exist on both the D7000 and D8000s? Any difference?

The squares are the same color!

Without being sure what Zetherin is describing, there's no way to know. Based on owner accounts, floating blacks have been seen on both on the D7000 and D8000. They use the same panel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanVanVan View Post

Yeah its a trick question they're actually the same color. Although koffas, shouldn't the question be is B darker then A? With the summary you wrote above it seems the lighter square background (B) should make B appear darker then A with its gray background...but maybe I'm forgetting it's the shadow thats supposed to cause the effect..

You can phrase it either way. Most people would say square A is darker than square B.
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post #650 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

The ABL is designed to prevent an overcurrent (it takes a lot of juice to fire up all the RGB pixels and produce white). It's a hard-wired circuit that can't be disabled from the menu. That being said, these plasmas are brighter picture than last year's. ChadB measured ~55 fL in his review of the 51D8000 (50-60 fL is considered good for a bright room).

The ABL doesn't impact the depth of black. It affects frames that have a high APL / high percentage of white in them (e.g., hockey games). Though Samsung is floating the black level this year, I'm not sure if this is what you're seeing. It's subtle and ChadB didn't observe it in his review. Sometimes the depth of black will look different based on the immediate surroundings -- e.g., black lettering on a white background will look darker than black lettering on a gray background, similar to the optical illusion below.

Is A darker than B?


Who's Chad? I haven't been able to find any reviews on this set whatsoever.

So if my blacks get greyer it's floating blacks, and if my whites get dimmer, it's ABL. Or, alternatively and possibly, I'm the victim of an optical illusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

Without being sure what Zetherin is describing, there's no way to know. Based on owner accounts, floating blacks have been seen on both on the D7000 and D8000. They use the same panel.

Ive tried describing it the best I can. I've refrained from using photos as I know they won't help. But essentially the problem I have with whites is what was shown in those two YouTube videos posted on the last page. And as for the blacks, they become greyer during some scenes. Or, it appearsthey do.
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post #651 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetherin View Post

Who's Chad? I haven't been able to find any reviews on this set whatsoever.

So if my blacks get greyer it's floating blacks, and if my whites get dimmer, it's ABL. Or, alternatively and possibly, I'm the victim of an optical illusion.

Sounds about right.

Most people perceive lighter-appearing blacks / letterbox bars when viewing dim, murky scenes. Scenes with vibrant, bright colors have inky letterbox bars. The black level on these sets is deepest on low APL (dim) scenes. Samsung floats it up on high APL (bright) scenes, so it's harder to pick up on the difference.

Here's Chad's review on the 51"/64" D8000...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4&postcount=50
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post #652 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

Sounds about right.

Most people perceive lighter-appearing blacks / letterbox bars when viewing dim, murky scenes. Scenes with vibrant, bright colors have inky letterbox bars. The black level on these sets is deepest on low APL (dim) scenes. Samsung floats it up on high APL (bright) scenes, so it's harder to pick up on the difference.

Here's Chad's review on the 51"/64" D8000...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4&postcount=50

Wait, so with dimmer scenes, the blacks are more pronounced, but with brighter scenes the blacks float up? What does "float up" mean again exactly? Please excuse my ignorance.

Thank you for the link and information.
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post #653 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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No problem. I'm learning all the time and never heard of these things until I started researching TVs early last year.

By float, I mean the black level is dynamically being raised and lowered. So float up would be an increase in MLL --> grayer black. This effect could be a compromise to get a brighter picture out of the display and/or meet Energy Star requirements.
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post #654 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Zetherin View Post

So if my blacks get greyer it's floating blacks, and if my whites get dimmer, it's ABL. Or, alternatively and possibly, I'm the victim of an optical illusion.

Definitely not an optical illusion. I see it all the time, even since I turned up the cell light to 20, though it does seem to have helped a little. There are random shifts in brightness, and when you notice it the most is in low action scenes, say if a person is on screen and moving ever so slightly. Or if the camera is moving very slowly in a static environment. You can easily see when the shifts happen. On faster moving scenes it probably happens so rapidly and your eyes are following the action more that you don't notice it.

Right now I have cell at 20, contrast 75 and brightness 50, gamma 1 and everything else default in movie mode, except from warm 2 to warm 1. I had contrast set to 100 at first to try out somebody elses suggested settings, and that caused a lot of weird flickering, most notably when I would scroll through menus on the PS3 XMB. The solid areas of the screen would flicker very noticeably. Turning the contrast to 75 has minimized that artifact greatly, though I can still notice it a little bit.
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post #655 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 03:39 PM
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As far as the incremental dimming within apps, I had the same issue (Netlix, Pandora, any static screen). It mysteriously went away after I entered/exited the service menu.

I can confirm this was the same case for me too. I just went into the SM, powered off, powered back on and that issue was gone.
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post #656 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 04:53 PM
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Definitely not an optical illusion. I see it all the time, even since I turned up the cell light to 20, though it does seem to have helped a little. There are random shifts in brightness, and when you notice it the most is in low action scenes, say if a person is on screen and moving ever so slightly. Or if the camera is moving very slowly in a static environment. You can easily see when the shifts happen. On faster moving scenes it probably happens so rapidly and your eyes are following the action more that you don't notice it.

Yes, I do notice the brightness fluctuation you describe. I suppose the thing I really want to know first is - is this the norm, or do we have defective units? If other people are not experiencing this, it's hard to write it off as ABL, right?
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post #657 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 07:27 PM
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I'm breakin n my PN59D7000 and I came across 1 dead pixel only when the green slide is playing should I be concerned? Is it worth returning for a new one?

No buzzing from my panel!!!

Thanks
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post #658 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Zetherin View Post

Yes, I do notice the brightness fluctuation you describe. I suppose the thing I really want to know first is - is this the norm, or do we have defective units? If other people are not experiencing this, it's hard to write it off as ABL, right?

I've really only noticed it with my PC, only slightly and few and far between w/regular viewing.

On a side note, I just watched Space Station in 3D through DirecTV and it was quite amazing, breath taking sometimes even
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post #659 of 4127 Old 04-24-2011, 11:24 PM
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Zetherin, if you haven't already try playing w/the Dynamic Contrast settings. I just tested w/my PC and with it set to high and my all white window stays completely white when maximized, no change whatsoever. The dimming when moving the window like in my video is substantially less. I'd say about a 70% difference.

Can't wait to try it w/hockey(go Bruins) and w/regular viewing. I'll probably start with low and go from there. Setting it on high might make me a little nervous about burn in
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post #660 of 4127 Old 04-25-2011, 01:26 AM
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Zetherin, if you haven't already try playing w/the Dynamic Contrast settings. I just tested w/my PC and with it set to high and my all white window stays completely white when maximized, no change whatsoever. The dimming when moving the window like in my video is substantially less. I'd say about a 70% difference.

Can't wait to try it w/hockey(go Bruins) and w/regular viewing. I'll probably start with low and go from there. Setting it on high might make me a little nervous about burn in

Interesting find there, please do continue to experiment with it.

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