Does your 2011 Samsung "D" plasma have brightness pops? - Page 22 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your 2011 Samsung D series plasma have brightness "pops"?
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Does your 2011 Samsung "D" plasma have brightness pops?
janos666's Avatar janos666 10:14 PM 11-06-2011
Larry,

Could please try to measure the black on this area with different backgrounds?
I measure ~0.10 cd/m^2 with anything else than 0% background (which is ~0.045).
LL

zoyd's Avatar zoyd 04:34 AM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Larry,

Could please try to measure the black on this area with different backgrounds?
I measure ~0.10 cd/m^2 with anything else than 0% background (which is ~0.045).

Hi Janos,

I measured this black area using my i1 pod with similar results:

Dynamic background CS off[cd/m^2] CS on[cd/m^2]
Black 0.05 0.075
above black 0.15 0.15

It's stable at 0.05 cd/m^2 for Ansi pattern and window steps so I don't know what's going on. It looks like a local contrast enhancement bug affects video level 0.

Note: This rise is easily detectable by eye and I do not see this during letter box movies, so I don't think this pattern is representative of typical behavior.
janos666's Avatar janos666 05:06 AM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

It's stable at 0.05 cd/m^2 for Ansi pattern and window steps so I don't know what's going on. It looks like a local contrast enhancement bug affects video level 0.

Thank you.

It means that the black levels didn't change with the latest EU softwares.
We measured MLL, ANSI black square, black area on various backgrounds..., so tell me what else should we measure or let this rumor go away! It only corrupted my mind.

Either my first assumption was right and only the fluctuation of the black levels got more noticeable since the dark grays stopped jumping or I only started to look for it after some people said they have brighter blacks since the update. (And it's not hard to see ~0.05 as dark gray if you want to )
Or this 0.1+ black situation happens more often since the update (sometimes with movies too)
zoyd's Avatar zoyd 05:17 AM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Thank you.

It means that the black levels didn't change with the latest EU softwares.
We measured MLL, ANSI black square, black area on various backgrounds..., so tell me what else should we measure or let this rumor go away! It only corrupted my mind.

We need someone to create patterns from different representative video/movie material with a small embedded black patch.
hamiltonpl's Avatar hamiltonpl 09:33 AM 11-07-2011
So first I found a portion of a recorded HD broadcast last night of DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES and there was a very noticable bump in brightness at one spot.

So I decided to use this spot to test.

I put in it Dynamic TORCH MODE. It still did it but you really had to know it was coming - very subtle.

So then I played around with just about evey setting and if found that once I adjusted cell lighting brightness and contrast to something reasonable - you could really see the "bump".

So I went into STANDARD and reset everything to see if the bump was still there. And, yes it was.

So I turned OFF Dynamic Contrast which was set to LOW. The bump went away. I tried this back and forth several times. No pop. No FB. Not a problem.

Well, that was for the specific issue during DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES.

So, then using these settings, I watched some more HD broadcasts in 1080i and I found that a couple of times and very subtly I noticed a fluctuation in brightness but NOTHING like it was before.

So having Dynamic Contrast set to OFF is very important. But it doesn't completely fix the problem, however it makes it much more acceptable.

Still....on to more testing....
DavidHir's Avatar DavidHir 10:03 AM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamiltonpl View Post

So first I found a portion of a recorded HD broadcast last night of DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES and there was a very noticable bump in brightness at one spot.

So I decided to use this spot to test.

I put in it Dynamic TORCH MODE. It still did it but you really had to know it was coming - very subtle.

So then I played around with just about evey setting and if found that once I adjusted cell lighting brightness and contrast to something reasonable - you could really see the "bump".

So I went into STANDARD and reset everything to see if the bump was still there. And, yes it was.

So I turned OFF Dynamic Contrast which was set to LOW. The bump went away. I tried this back and forth several times. No pop. No FB. Not a problem.

Well, that was for the specific issue during DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES.

So, then using these settings, I watched some more HD broadcasts in 1080i and I found that a couple of times and very subtly I noticed a fluctuation in brightness but NOTHING like it was before.

So having Dynamic Contrast set to OFF is very important. But it doesn't completely fix the problem, however it makes it much more acceptable.

Still....on to more testing....

It gets frustrating. I found I could elimate some pops on some material, but then others cropped up or still showed before the image starts getting dimmed down too much. It's a like a carnival game where you cannot win.
DavidHir's Avatar DavidHir 11:07 AM 11-07-2011
slimy46's Avatar slimy46 11:24 AM 11-07-2011
good jod im going to try and get hometheatermag to look into this as well
hamiltonpl's Avatar hamiltonpl 11:32 AM 11-07-2011
Quote:

Yes Virginia, there are brightness pops. Great line and article.

Now.

Samsung - are you listening?
AtDaBeach's Avatar AtDaBeach 11:53 AM 11-07-2011
We pretty much know corporate people monitor these threads from time to time. This issue has been noted since the release of the panels, not sure they will take any action this late in the game.
killerz298's Avatar killerz298 12:56 PM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

It's a like a carnival game where you cannot win.

This is the best description of the issue... No matter what you do, it never completely goes away.
hamiltonpl's Avatar hamiltonpl 04:02 PM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerz298 View Post

This is the best description of the issue... No matter what you do, it never completely goes away.

You beat me to it. You said it.
dzrbenson's Avatar dzrbenson 04:40 PM 11-07-2011
Hi All

I just purchased a PS51D550

And watching Man V Wild last night, I noticed some of these brightness pops

I have no buzzing or anything, is it worth replacing the TV for a new one, or do all of the Tv's suffer this?
pioneer 1985's Avatar pioneer 1985 04:58 PM 11-07-2011
am i going mad here

a lot of people here refer the "brightness pops" to be black level changes, but i refer them to be white level changes that look like a strobing effect in bright moving scenes.

is everyone describing the same name "brightness pops" for both issues or what because i am confussed.
Camster's Avatar Camster 05:07 PM 11-07-2011
Quote:

Hmm he doesn't seem to think they are a big deal & it won't affect the tv's rating according to him so I wouldn't consider him to be any help. I can't see Samsung finding any pressure from his comments unless I missed something there?
muzzakus's Avatar muzzakus 05:13 PM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneer 1985 View Post

am i going mad here

a lot of people here refer the "brightness pops" to be black level changes, but i refer them to be white level changes that look like a strobing effect in bright moving scenes.

is everyone describing the same name "brightness pops" for both issues or what because i am confussed.

Brightness refers to the low end, I.e. the blacks. The whites are contrast.
muzzakus's Avatar muzzakus 05:17 PM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camster View Post


Hmm he doesn't seem to think they are a big deal & it won't affect the tv's rating according to him so I wouldn't consider him to be any help. I can't see Samsung finding any pressure from his comments unless I missed something there?

That's what I was going to say. A bit different using it for a day or two exclusively with bluray compared to living with it using a variety of material, not all 24fps cinema smooth.
pioneer 1985's Avatar pioneer 1985 08:54 PM 11-07-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzakus View Post

Brightness refers to the low end, I.e. the blacks. The whites are contrast.

well then "contrast pops" is another big issue with these sets that no reviewer has bothered to mention and was the reason why i sent my 4 samsung d series plasmas back.
teeger's Avatar teeger 09:08 PM 11-07-2011
I've had my PN64D550 since mid August and haven't seen one single brightness pop. After reading the thread about the "pops", I thought I was one of the lucky ones in getting a 2011 Samsung plasma not having this issue.

Last night, however, I started getting the brightness pops. Not with Blu-rays or watching programming through my DVR -- but through my brand new Boxee Box that I just set up last night. Right away I started getting the brightness pops on most of the stuff I was watching. Crap.

I thought the Boxee was defective at first, but to make certain before returning it to Best Buy, I connected the Boxee Box to my 42" LCD TV and there were no brightness / gamma fluctuations that I'm getting using the Boxee with my PN64D500 Samsung.

I know from working in video production that programming produced for broadcast must carefully deliver video levels (legal broadcast colors) that stay within regulated perameters. And since material streamed from the Boxee Box is far from broadcast quality - it seems that maybe the current Samsung plasma lineup is too sensitive to clipping than they should be. My set doesn't have issues with anything (yet) other than what I'm bringing in through the Net.

I just read the brief piece by the editor at CNET. I think the issue is bigger than CNET admits. My issue (like many of yours) is that when watching some material, the brightness pops are happening a lot. I'd say several times per min. in scenes with high contrast. This is a real issue . . . not one that someone purchasing a new TV should have to accept as "good enough".

Aside from this and too much crosstalk with 3D, the set is stellar with an amazing image. If I have to live without a firmware fix to address the pop problem, I know my love for this TV will diminish very quickly.

Let's all demand that a) Samsung ADMIT they are aware that they have a problem and b) that they promise a firmware fix fast. If they can't fix, they should recall defective product.

Ian
clark17's Avatar clark17 06:15 AM 11-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzakus View Post

That's what I was going to say. A bit different using it for a day or two exclusively with bluray compared to living with it using a variety of material, not all 24fps cinema smooth.

+1...

If anything it defends Samsung... " yeah it is there, but it is nothing... "

Guys, is there an easy way to reproduce this at will??? I still have 2 weeks to return my PN59D550. Since I don't use the tv everyday, only weekednds (wii, and 24fps w/cinema smooth).
adubrocq's Avatar adubrocq 07:16 AM 11-08-2011
I see the pops on my D550 but i too have a Panny 50 ST30. The ST30 got a firmware update that completely fixed the pops BUT BUT BUT my Samsung 51D550 still has a better picture IMO. The Samsung also handle motion or extreme motion sequences alot better than the Panny does. I see the pops in the Samsung but it doesn't take away from my viewing experience.

Please don't take this offensively guys but i think we are really blowing this way out of proportion. Although i agree with all of you that this is unacceptable for the amount of money we pay for our tv's i also believe that we should all take a back seat and enjoy what a wonderful television it really is. I think the good out way the bad easily. Im happy and wont be returning my set.
DavidHir's Avatar DavidHir 07:32 AM 11-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by adubrocq View Post

I see the pops on my D550 but i too have a Panny 50 ST30. The ST30 got a firmware update that completely fixed the pops BUT BUT BUT my Samsung 51D550 still has a better picture IMO. The Samsung also handle motion or extreme motion sequences alot better than the Panny does. I see the pops in the Samsung but it doesn't take away from my viewing experience.

Please don't take this offensively guys but i think we are really blowing this way out of proportion. Although i agree with all of you that this is unacceptable for the amount of money we pay for our tv's i also believe that we should all take a back seat and enjoy what a wonderful television it really is. I think the good out way the bad easily. Im happy and wont be returning my set.

I disagree. In fact, I am surprised this issue wasn't made bigger and so many people missed it. I guess since most people watch their displays in vivid type mode/settings in bright rooms they wouldn't see it.

I've owned the display for less than two weeks and have never found an issue on any display I've ever owned this annoying. The only issue that comes close was when one of my CRT RPTV had a faulty power supply and I started seeing grey waves in dark images. Like that issue, the brightness pops take me out of the content I am watching and are extremely annoying and distracting. As a result, I am swapping out my 64D8000 tomorrow for a Panasonic 65VT30. There is no way I am dealing with this issue any longer. It's really too bad as it's an excellent display otherwise.
Kr0nic's Avatar Kr0nic 09:04 AM 11-08-2011
so when your watching a dark scene..the dark areas sometimes appear too brighten?? like a dark greyish color? Is that what you guys are describing as a brightness pop?
teeger's Avatar teeger 09:33 AM 11-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr0nic View Post

so when your watching a dark scene..the dark areas sometimes appear to be a little brighter? like a dark greyish color? Is that what you guys are describing as a brightness pop?

Not really. If an entire scene is dark gray, it's likely the material you are watching doesn't have deep blacks - that wouldn't be the fault of the set.

If, however, you are watching a movie / program where there is a SUDDEN shift in the brightness / gamma for no reason - then this is likely the brightness pop issue. The change is as quick as you would find by flicking on a light switch in a room on or off. It's sudden.

If it only happened once here and there, I wouldn't care. But now that I've found it starting to happen, it can happen A LOT per scene. The video level goes up and down often - this certainly causes me, at least, to be distracted enough that it's hard to enjoy what your watching.

Hope this helps.

Ian
Kr0nic's Avatar Kr0nic 10:05 AM 11-08-2011
well for me like last night i watching criminal minds..and i notice during a dark scene one side of the screen went from dark to a lighter grey..nothing to serious tho..but sense than i have not noticed anything like the whole tv flickers?...
KevinNash's Avatar KevinNash 12:09 PM 11-08-2011
I know I am off-topic, it's panel quality related too, but I would ask something, about dead pixels.

In many D series reviews, I see dead pixels, Samsung replace my panel 3 times ( so I had 4 panels on my D550 ) each time I have deads or flicking pixel, on differents place of the screen each time.

Samsung Warranty 0 dead pixels, how could this happend ?

Do you have faultly pixels too guys ?
Somperson's Avatar Somperson 12:47 PM 11-08-2011
Update to my Previous post from about 1.5 weeks ago.

Samsung Technician came out and replaced the entire panel.. boards/glass straight from the Samsung Genuine Parts factory. Few things I noticed when he was ripping out the boards. Back panel says manufactured in September, but internally it was actually August (my original panel). Not that it matters much as there really seems to be no difference between them. The new boards are September manufacture date.

Buzzing is still there without a doubt. Tech suggestion putting some absorption material behind the the panel as its bouncing off the wall where it is mounted. I agree with that statement. Buzzing is certinaly annoying, but there seem to be workarounds to compensate for it.

The one thing I definitely still saw was the pops / flashes during Hockey. I put on Flyers, then whatever NHL network had on during the day. Tech confirmed he saw it and said it could be the source material. Only time I've seen this happen is hockey, I could not come up with other material that would cause the pops. Just two different channels. I personally feel the panel is doing it, but I cannot isolate the issue outside of hockey.
I could not tell if the black levels are jumping around with content (walking dead/ boardwalk empire). I need to wait until the sun goes down as its too bright during the day here. FYI I definitely feel the black level rising is more apparent on full 16:9 material and less so on 2:35 material.

Will update later tonight on the black levels with the new boards.
AtDaBeach's Avatar AtDaBeach 01:11 PM 11-08-2011
I see it on Boardwalk Empire, and especially American Horror Story on FX.
teeger's Avatar teeger 01:34 PM 11-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somperson View Post

Will update later tonight on the black levels with the new boards.

Hey, Somperson . . .

Good luck with the new board and new glass. If all is good that's great. If not, then for the rest of us, it would appear that replacing panels and boards is a waste of time. It would imply that there is a software glitch or a defective component that needs to be found and addressed by Samsung. At that point, I'd be happy to have them tinker with my plasma for a solution.

Ian
clark17's Avatar clark17 01:52 PM 11-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNash View Post

I know I am off-topic, it's panel quality related too, but I would ask something, about dead pixels.

In many D series reviews, I see dead pixels, Samsung replace my panel 3 times ( so I had 4 panels on my D550 ) each time I have deads or flicking pixel, on differents place of the screen each time.

Samsung Warranty 0 dead pixels, how could this happend ?

Do you have faultly pixels too guys ?

How did you test it with pixel buddy or something? I'm going thru 120pix slideshow and I haven't seen any but I wasn't looking closely....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtDaBeach View Post

I see it on Boardwalk Empire, and especially American Horror Story on FX.

I don't get this channels, would that be apparent on any dark TV show? I'll try to find it tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by teeger View Post

Hey, Somperson . . .

Good luck with the new board and new glass. If all is good that's great. If not, then for the rest of us, it would appear that replacing panels and boards is a waste of time. It would imply that there is a software glitch or a defective component that needs to be found and addressed by Samsung. At that point, I'd be happy to have them tinker with my plasma for a solution.

Ian

+1

Somperson let us know how it goes..
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