Panasonic GT30 vs. VT30 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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As best I can tell the differences are:

1. free pair of 3d glasses I'll never use
2. 24p playback on VT30
3. One sheet of glass front (should I care?)
4. something called "infinite black pro 2 panel"

1 and 3 don't seem to offer me any real value (please explain if otherwise on 3).

4. Is 4 anything other than marketing? I can't seem to find anything about this except it isn't Kuro tech and won't necessarily have deeper black levels than the GT30

What would I get with 24p playback available on the VT30 that I wouldn't get with the GT30 - how noticeable is the difference? - is this worth the price difference over the GT30?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:10 PM
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im still waiting for the VTs to hit my store but I expect them to look much better since its such a huge price difference
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I look forward to hearing your impressions then - specifically - I think many of us looking for a TV this year will want to know whether the features justify the significant price difference.
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:13 PM
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The VT30 has a better filter (producing deeper blacks) and handles BluRay playback better. And hopefull it will not have some of the issues with the GT30 (better gamma and no brightness fluctuations), but only time will tell.
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:19 PM
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same question as OP

also big different between GT30 and the ST30?

Losing THX setting a big deal.... can't I do the settings my self?
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:31 PM
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last year's models were side by side at the local BB. huge difference from the GT to VT... I would assume a similar difference this year.
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by d_rob1031 View Post

last year's models were side by side at the local BB. huge difference from the GT to VT... I would assume a similar difference this year.

Can you be specific about the difference?
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:34 PM
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You did miss a few things:


--Cinematic 24P Playback (96Hz)
--3D Cinematic 24P Playback (96Hz)
--ISFccc
--Infinite Black Pro 2
--Dual Speaker +Woofer
--CONEQ
--RS-232 (D-Sub 9pin)
--Includes 1 Pr. of Glasses
--Wider Pro Setting adjustments available
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10th St. View Post

Can you be specific about the difference?

I didn't check the settings to make sure they were set up equally, however, the blacks looked MUCH blacker. The colors popped and looked much more accurate. Fast motion, sharpness, etc. looked the same however. I have a VT25, enjoy it very much.
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Old 04-17-2011, 07:32 PM
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You know, I'm the last person to ever say this, but this has been discussed a thousand times in the various threads, and there are official threads for these panels, and an official thread for the entire line.

With that said, I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can.

A while back and hdguru article arose with Panasonic claiming the GT30 will have a black level of .004, and the VT30 with a black level of .002. In the same article, they mentioned they've gotten rid of floating and rising blacks.

We don't have enough information yet, but so far, floating blacks are 100% gone, and depending who measured it, the GT30 is around .004 black level, meaning it's pretty safe to bank on the VT30 have .002, or damned close to it. And obviously, black level means better contrast, and so forth, and a better picture overall.

It also has a 10 point gamma control, so if you get it calibrated, gamma will (hopefully) be very close to perfect, but that's all speculation on my part as the VT30 doesn't come out for a bit.

The increase in black level, the overall look of the panel, + 96hz for 24/p content makes the jump completely worth it, but that's because I want the best possible picture quality. The GT30 is an excellent panel though.

Hope this helps,

-Vader
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader182 View Post

We don't have enough information yet, but so far, floating blacks are 100% gone, and depending who measured it, the GT30 is around .004 black level, meaning it's pretty safe to bank on the VT30 have .002, or damned close to it. And obviously, black level means better contrast, and so forth, and a better picture overall.

Even here in blatant speculation land, there are grounds to think .002 is far too optimistic. A reading of .0035 would not surprise me. .003 would slightly exceed my expectations. .002 is just too much to expect this year, IMHO.

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Old 04-17-2011, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

Even here in blatant speculation land, there are grounds to think .002 is far too optimistic. A reading of .0035 would not surprise me. .003 would slightly exceed my expectations. .002 is just too much to expect this year, IMHO.

Blatant speculation? That implies I'm pulling numbers out of my ass... but I'm not, and I don't have a reason to. I expect it to be a bit above .002.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader182 View Post


Blatant speculation? That implies I'm pulling numbers out of my ass... but I'm not, and I don't have a reason to. I expect it to be a bit above .002.

The GT30s measure .005fL. Myself, HDTVTest.com and AVForums got that measurement. Do not expect .002fL from the VT30.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:11 PM
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I just read up on what floating blacks are and it said along the lines that the darker the scene the darker the blacks and the brighter the scene the lighter the blacks but on my ST30 I noticed that with the black bars on top and bottom of movies in bright scenes they seem even darker so I don't think floating blacks should be a problem on the higher end models since it's not effecting my ST30.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The GT30s measure .005fL. Myself, HDTVTest.com and AVForums got that measurement. Do not expect .002fL from the VT30.


That's pretty disappointing then, but still, .003(around) is nothing to not think is fantastic.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader182 View Post

We don't have enough information yet, but so far, floating blacks are 100% gone, and depending who measured it, the GT30 is around .004 black level, meaning it's pretty safe to bank on the VT30 have .002, or damned close to it. And obviously, black level means better contrast, and so forth, and a better picture overall.

It also has a 10 point gamma control, so if you get it calibrated, gamma will (hopefully) be very close to perfect, but that's all speculation on my part as the VT30 doesn't come out for a bit.

The increase in black level, the overall look of the panel, + 96hz for 24/p content makes the jump completely worth it, but that's because I want the best possible picture quality. The GT30 is an excellent panel though.

-Vader

Thank you
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:24 AM
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Slightly off topic but then again not, can somebody tell me what the black level measurement for the ST30 is??? Just to compare it to the GT30.

Thanks
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader182 View Post

Blatant speculation? That implies I'm pulling numbers out of my ass... but I'm not, and I don't have a reason to. I expect it to be a bit above .002.

No worries; I just think until we have corroborated professional reports, we're all just people on the internet talking about stuff second or third hand, you know? I'd like nothing more than for you to be right, but I'm not going to bet on it. (And I'm _still_ going to buy a VT30, almost certainly.)

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Old 04-18-2011, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by XciteMe83 View Post

Slightly off topic but then again not, can somebody tell me what the black level measurement for the ST30 is??? Just to compare it to the GT30.

Thanks

In the whereabouts of .006-.008 depending where it was measured from. I'm sure D-Nice could oblige.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

No worries; I just think until we have corroborated professional reports, we're all just people on the internet talking about stuff second or third hand, you know? I'd like nothing more than for you to be right, but I'm not going to bet on it. (And I'm _still_ going to buy a VT30, almost certainly.)

And you're quite right, but until reports come out, this is all we can do unfortunately, haha. Proper reviews won't come out for a bit, other than flatpanels which should come out within a week or two. Given that Panasonic claimed .004 for the GT30 and it's only .001 off, I think a .003 for the VT30 is fairly likely if nothing else.
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Old 04-18-2011, 01:31 AM
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Thanks Vader.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XciteMe83 View Post

Slightly off topic but then again not, can somebody tell me what the black level measurement for the ST30 is??? Just to compare it to the GT30.

Thanks

ST30 is around 0.008 fL, the GT30 is around 0.005-0.006 fL

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by KroLeXz View Post

same question as OP

also big different between GT30 and the ST30?

Losing THX setting a big deal.... can't I do the settings my self?

IMO, I don't think many people would miss THX. A better picture can be had using Custom especially if it's calibrated. D-Nice's settings for the ST30 can be found on hdj.

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Old 04-19-2011, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

IMO, I don't think many people would miss THX. A better picture can be had using Custom especially if it's calibrated. D-Nice's settings for the ST30 can be found on hdj.

Talking about calibration. Have a look at the video below where the guy is calibrating a VT30.

Now I'm wondering two things:
- Since the VT30 is supposed to be THX certified, why would I want to pay someone to come to my house and run CalMAN on top of it?
- About saying that optimal settings can be copy/pasted from some website, are you sure? Looking that this video tells me that this would means hundreds of values to get adjusted.

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Old 04-19-2011, 09:30 AM
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None of the settings are perfect out of the box, not even THX.

I'm surprised that after your research that you're unaware of the flaws with THX, especially with this year's model. Sure it might look better than other settings but I don't think that's true with Panasonics this year since gamma is so low. This means that the picture rises out of black too quickly. How this set received THX certification is something that only the experts understand and some find it unacceptable/questionable (?). IMO, when custom mode can be made to produce a more accurate picture than THX then THX has lost true meaning and value. Perhaps it's going the way of Monster cables?

As for the settings on hdj, if one were to follow D-Nice's directions for properly aging the panel to the T, and then apply the settings the result would be an image that mirrors that of a professionally calibrated TV (barring any possibility of variance from set to set). D-Nice has also reported the results of the calibration in addition to the settings.

Edit: I failed to mention that the only way to get THX in the GT30 (VT30 isn't out yet) to perform properly and at it's best is to have it calibrated.

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Old 04-19-2011, 09:49 AM
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there is more detail and the balcks are better in the gt30 then the st30
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

None of the settings are perfect out of the box, not even THX.
...
Edit: I failed to mention that the only way to get THX in the GT30 (VT30 isn't out yet) to perform properly and at it's best is to have it calibrated.

Well, all this leads me to think I may go with the GT30 after all.

- VT30 won't save me from calibration process.
- GT30 is available now.
- Could go with 50" instead of 55" which I think is enough for 9' to 10' viewing distance?
- Save a few hundreds.
- I was concerned mainly about 24p but the GT30 has a smoother that I guess/hope would makes it very hard for me to diff vs the VT30?
- Not sure the other plus of the VT30 would be obvious to see even side by side after after a good calibration?

Makes sense?
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:02 AM
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vt30 will be rated best pq of 2011.
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by hotskins View Post

im still waiting for the VTs to hit my store but I expect them to look much better since its such a huge price difference

Hotskins, I don't know you so I may be wildly off track, but that is the best written smirk I have come across in a while.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepWalker2 View Post

Well, all this leads me to think I may go with the GT30 after all.

- VT30 won't save me from calibration process.
- GT30 is available now.
- Could go with 50" instead of 55" which I think is enough for 9' to 10' viewing distance?
- Save a few hundreds.
- I was concerned mainly about 24p but the GT30 has a smoother that I guess/hope would makes it very hard for me to diff vs the VT30?
- Not sure the other plus of the VT30 would be obvious to see even side by side after after a good calibration?

Makes sense?

If 24p is important to you then I'd advise you to wait for reviews on the VT30. Hopefully it does better than the EU model.

Otherwise, I'd buy the ST30. Why pay for a crappy THX. I do own a G25 btw and I am in the market for a bigger tv.

The difference in the shadow detail isn't that significant from the ST30 that one would know the difference unless you have both sets setup side by side. Also, the ST30 doesn't suffer as badly from the floating whites, which would tick me off to no end since I'm sensitive to those sort of fluctations. I can deal with the occassional quick event but not with anything more than that. I can't see spending money to support Panasonic's release of a set with that kind of flaw. Perhaps if less people did or at least returned them upon discovery then manufacturers would stop considering such things as acceptable.

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Old 04-19-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteinmann View Post

vt30 will be rated best pq of 2011.

What makes you think so? It's going to have floating whites and possibly floating blacks too. But then so does Samsung-lol.

It'd be funny if LG wins the shoot out this year -no?

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