Official LG XXPZ950 Owners Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 08:05 PM
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Awesome review, thanks!

Is everyone that is having 24p problems running direct to the tv or through a receiver?
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post #212 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 08:22 PM
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Im running mine through a Receiver (Yamaha RX-V667)

Just so we all know for certain, I'll take it out of the loop to see if it improves, however I did try doing that for the GT30 and it didnt make any difference, but it's worth a go in any case.

To be honest i was glad when i tried it and it DIDN'T fix the problem because i'd have really hated to be put in the position of knowing my receiver was impeding the TV :-)

I'll get back to you shortly
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post #213 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smpearce22 View Post

A matter of note regarding problems with 1080/24 playback.

I unfortunately have to confirm there are issues here...but on BOTH units.

The Panasonic suffered with an unwatchable strobing (not your usual 24p judder) and double imaging.

This was one of my primary reasons for finally deciding the TV had to go back.

All I had to compare it too was my 3 year old 40inch Sony LCD, which displayed 24p content with no issues at all.

The Panasonic looked HORRIBLE in this mode, but showed considerable improvement when I resorted back to 1080/60.

The LG is also problematic in 24p mode, as a few people have reported, it does seem to hitch and stutter along like a PC struggling to handle too much video information.

Both TV's are equally unwatchable in this mode (albeit for different reasons).

If I hadn't seen the Panasonic GT30 exhibiting its own issues in this mode beforehand, I would feel the need to complain and possibly return the LG too.

BUT, as it stands, despite being disappointed that the LG doesn’t seem up to this task either, I've decided to cut my losses and live with it, and forget about 24p playback.

The LG gets too many things right over the Panasonic which has got its own issues in this department anyway.

I don’t want a VT30 even with its 96 Hz mode, as it still suffers with Panasonics other issues, I don’t want a Samsung unit, and I don’t want another GT30.

So apart from exploring this years LCD market I really am out of viable options.

And so despite this, I’m happy with the LG PZ950.

It's not ideal but it doesn't seem like anyone else in this years Plasma market can offer a better alternative.

24p is over rated anyway :-P


Cheers Guys

Thanks for a great perspective. my question is, what 24p mode are you talking about? 3:2 pulldown? the GT doesn't have a true 24p mode fast enough to remove flicker like the pz950 seems to have (ie, 72 hz) so i'll assume you're talking about 3:2 pulldown/60hz on the GT. on the pz950, have you tried forcing your source to go out in 24hz (you can force the ps3 to do this i know under the video settings at the home page) and then turn on truecinema (3:3) pulldown while turning off motion smoothing. are you still getting strobing/motion issues using that mode?

I ask because this is a huge selling point for the pz950 for me, since the gt/st doesn't have a 3:3 pulldown mode. thanks again for your report!
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post #214 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema626 View Post

Thanks for a great perspective. my question is, what 24p mode are you talking about? 3:2 pulldown? the GT doesn't have a true 24p mode fast enough to remove flicker like the pz950 seems to have (ie, 72 hz) so i'll assume you're talking about 3:2 pulldown/60hz on the GT. on the pz950, have you tried forcing your source to go out in 24hz (you can force the ps3 to do this i know under the video settings at the home page) and then turn on truecinema (3:3) pulldown while turning off motion smoothing. are you still getting strobing/motion issues using that mode?

I ask because this is a huge selling point for the pz950 for me, since the gt/st doesn't have a 3:3 pulldown mode. thanks again for your report!


Oooh some interesting points here.

To answer your first question, yes I did output my source in 1080/24 mode, but after seeing the stutter effect i switched it back off.

As you say the Panasonic just wasnt up to it, but maybe theres a few avenues i havent explored fully with the LG.

Can you tell me where i can find the True Cnema option? I've not seen that anywhere, neither have i seen any motion smoothing option (not that i'd use it) but Ill give that a go for sure if the options are there to select.

I'v ploughed through the menus endlessly and these have some how escaped me.
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post #215 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 08:47 PM
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gotta be honest i've haven't used in on the pz950 but i am considering getting one after a bad experience with panasonic. the true cinema option was one of my main reasons for looking into the lg. try looking through the manual. its actually called 'real cinema', sorry.
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post #216 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 08:55 PM
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Looking through the manual which covers various LG models, the setting we are looking for is 'TruMotion' (the manual also states this feature's availablity is model dependant) so unless I'm being REALLY blind/stupid (or both?) it doesn't appear to be present on the PZ950 :-(

The manual im referring to, is of course generic, covering a whole list of models inc LCD + LED and is not specific to the 950 or even Plasma.

If anyone with a 950 knows for sure and can guide me in, I'll see what i can do with it.
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post #217 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 09:12 PM
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Cinema626, but the 3:3 doesn't work It works on my friend's PK950, but it seems LG broke the feature somewhere along the line. It just simply does not engage. If you have a Blu-ray player outputting at 24hz, there is no difference in Blu-ray playback with or without Film Mode activated. It looks the way I imagine the Panasonics that use 48hz do from what I've heard.

That's why I'm so pissed--it was pretty much the main selling point for me, seeing as my old TV is really not a very good LCD, so pretty much any quality plasma would be a welcome upgrade--as long as the motion was correct!

Maybe it will be fixed in a firmware update, but I'm not waiting to see if it comes after the 30 day return policy on Amazon.

As for the question about the receiver, I've been going straight from the player to the TV through a hi-speed/3D-capable HDMI.
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post #218 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 09:24 PM
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sadface. how could this have happened it explicitly states the set does 72hz. lg is specifically calling it 24p realcinema in their spec sheets. are you SURE you're not using 2:2 pulldown (like panasonic uses, ie 48hz? that would give the flicker) as lg is also stating it does 2:2 pulldown.

from their specs on lg.com

24p Real Cinema (3:3 Pulldown): Yes

Cinema 3:2/2:2 Pull Down Mode: Yes

http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/...tv-50PZ950.jsp
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post #219 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 09:52 PM
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Because of the 1080p/24 issue, i'm not going to buy the 60PZ950
.
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post #220 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 09:52 PM
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I think I'v got to look into this a bit more.

I'll feed the TV a 24p signal again and see if it activates anything in the menu system.

I know theres no option available for 24p Real Cinema when feeding it a 1080/60 signal but I'll see if anything changes when i output the source at 1080/24.

Fingers crossed we can put this to bed, because there seems to be a difference between LG's listed specs and what I'v seen on screen and in the menu's.
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post #221 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 10:00 PM
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what exactly should be the issue with 1080p/24? I dont see anything abnormal when playing blurays with the lg bd670 (images going through onkyo 609 and the bluray set on 24)
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post #222 of 1122 Old 07-05-2011, 10:06 PM
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I know, I looked at that spec sheet too, and that's what's so infuriating!

But not one of the 5 customer service folks I talked to have yet pointed me to the option that activates a working 3:3 pulldown.

"RealCinema" is mentioned nowhere in the menu system, and the only relevant option is "Film Mode."

A number of the customer service workers seemed to expect the television to have a "TruMotion" setting, which it also lacked.

From ze manual:

REAL CINEMA OR FILM MODE
Makes video clips recorded in film look more natural by eliminating judder effect. DVD and Blu-ray movies are filmed at 24 frames per second (fps). With LG Real Cinema, every frame is consistently processed 5 times in 1/24 of a second producing 120 fps with TruMotion or 2 times in 1/24 of a second producing 48 fps without TruMotion, thus totally eliminating the judder effect. This function can also work when TruMotion is off.


None of that math indicates any 3:3/72hz system. Weird, right? If anyone can direct me to this most elusive feature, man, you will have made my summer.
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post #223 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema626 View Post

Thanks for a great perspective. my question is, what 24p mode are you talking about? 3:2 pulldown? the GT doesn't have a true 24p mode fast enough to remove flicker like the pz950 seems to have (ie, 72 hz) so i'll assume you're talking about 3:2 pulldown/60hz on the GT.

He had the European GT30 and the European G/GT series allegedly have a 4:4 24p mode (which you can't disable, other than changing to 60Hz in your player). My European G20 was that way. And that would be fine, if they didn't have problems with double imaging, etc.

Strange that the PZ950 should have more problems with 24p than PK950. Hopefully that's a software error that will be fixed.
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post #224 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdburby View Post
I know, I looked at that spec sheet too, and that's what's so infuriating!

But not one of the 5 customer service folks I talked to have yet pointed me to the option that activates a working 3:3 pulldown.

"RealCinema" is mentioned nowhere in the menu system, and the only relevant option is "Film Mode."

A number of the customer service workers seemed to expect the television to have a "TruMotion" setting, which it also lacked.

From ze manual:

REAL CINEMA OR FILM MODE
Makes video clips recorded in film look more natural by eliminating judder effect. DVD and Blu-ray movies are filmed at 24 frames per second (fps). With LG Real Cinema, every frame is consistently processed 5 times in 1/24 of a second producing 120 fps with TruMotion or 2 times in 1/24 of a second producing 48 fps without TruMotion, thus totally eliminating the judder effect. This function can also work when TruMotion is off.


None of that math indicates any 3:3/72hz system. Weird, right? If anyone can direct me to this most elusive feature, man, you will have made my summer.

Yup couldn't agree more, Iv searched high and low through the menu's on the TV and NOTHING.

A software update would be nice, but with so few of us owning this TV it may be hard to get LG to acknowledge the problem exists....which is a shame as in all other areas this TV is tops.

But as I stated earlier, its not like there are many other viable options from other manufacturers of Plasma this year.

The GT30 was TOTALLY unwatchable at 1080/24, so as much as this issue is putting people off of the PZ950 its still the lesser of two evils.
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post #225 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 05:37 AM
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Hello to everyone,

New guy who took delivery of an LG60pz950 on June 28. About 72 hours on the display with this quick comment:

Going from a LCD to Plasma has been quite interesting. The LG is much more immersive. Going from a 46" to a 60" has changed our experience greatly. We sit about 13 feet away and feel as if we are being pulled into the action. We also appreciate the audio side more. Running the LG through our Marantz 6004 (5.1) is (in this house) the only way to go. We live in a rural area and our home theater is an important part of our relaxation time together. We bought the LG through Amazon on a bundle deal and couldn't be happier. Originally, I wanted a high end Panasonic Plasma but decided to save a ton of money with the LG and take an "out west" vacation and still have a great plasma display.

I am glad to have found a "active" LG forum to share ideas and experiences.
Thanks for reading and any comments are welcomed.
Jim
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post #226 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 08:27 AM
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Hey guys

Regarding the 1080/24hz issues, I've visited another forum where there is an LG rep who visits from time to time.

I took the time to Private Message him with the following message:

Hi there

I wonder if you could help.

I have recently taken ownership of a LG 50PZ950 (UK Model)

I am VERY happy with the overall quality of this TV after previously returning a Panasonic GT30.

However it appears there is an issue when playing back Blu-Rays at 1080/24hz

I am not talking about the normal judder you should expect to see with 24hz material, instead it is like a 'hitching' effect where the image appears to stop and start as the camera pans.

This also seems to have a small effect on the Lip-Sync when running the TV through an AV Receiver as everything is in total sync when not outputting the source in 1080/24hz mode.

I have been liaising with other owners on another forum where there appears to be more discussion and interest in the PZ950, and other owners are also experiencing the same issue.

I'm not sure if its good etiquette to direct you to another site but there's some interesting reading toward the bottom of page 7 into page 8 (see specifically post #209 onwards)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1330742&page=7

I know I would be grateful if you could help shed some light into why we are having these issues, and if the team at LG can recommend any sort of fix for this, as the function that should remedy the issue (Tru-motion) appears to be absent (or at least very well hidden) from the menu's on this particular model.

Kindest regards

smpearce22


Here's hoping he responds and can help us get to the bottom of this.

I'll keep you all updated.
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post #227 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smpearce22 View Post
Hey guys

Regarding the 1080/24hz issues, I've visited another forum where there is an LG rep who visits from time to time.

I took the time to Private Message him with the following message:

Hi there

I wonder if you could help.

I have recently taken ownership of a LG 50PZ950 (UK Model)

I am VERY happy with the overall quality of this TV after previously returning a Panasonic GT30.

However it appears there is an issue when playing back Blu-Rays at 1080/24hz

I am not talking about the normal judder you should expect to see with 24hz material, instead it is like a 'hitching' effect where the image appears to stop and start as the camera pans.

This also seems to have a small effect on the Lip-Sync when running the TV through an AV Receiver as everything is in total sync when not outputting the source in 1080/24hz mode.

I have been liaising with other owners on another forum where there appears to be more discussion and interest in the PZ950, and other owners are also experiencing the same issue.

I'm not sure if its good etiquette to direct you to another site but there's some interesting reading toward the bottom of page 7 into page 8 (see specifically post #209 onwards)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1330742&page=7

I know I would be grateful if you could help shed some light into why we are having these issues, and if the team at LG can recommend any sort of fix for this, as the function that should remedy the issue (Tru-motion) appears to be absent (or at least very well hidden) from the menu's on this particular model.

Kindest regards

smpearce22


Here's hoping he responds and can help us get to the bottom of this.

I'll keep you all updated.
I hope something can be done.

Thanks!!!!
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post #228 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smpearce22 View Post

Hey guys

Regarding the 1080/24hz issues, I've visited another forum where there is an LG rep who visits from time to time.

I took the time to Private Message him with the following message:

Hi there

I wonder if you could help.

I have recently taken ownership of a LG 50PZ950 (UK Model)

I am VERY happy with the overall quality of this TV after previously returning a Panasonic GT30.

However it appears there is an issue when playing back Blu-Rays at 1080/24hz

I am not talking about the normal judder you should expect to see with 24hz material, instead it is like a 'hitching' effect where the image appears to stop and start as the camera pans.

This also seems to have a small effect on the Lip-Sync when running the TV through an AV Receiver as everything is in total sync when not outputting the source in 1080/24hz mode.

I have been liaising with other owners on another forum where there appears to be more discussion and interest in the PZ950, and other owners are also experiencing the same issue.

I'm not sure if its good etiquette to direct you to another site but there's some interesting reading toward the bottom of page 7 into page 8 (see specifically post #209 onwards)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1330742&page=7

I know I would be grateful if you could help shed some light into why we are having these issues, and if the team at LG can recommend any sort of fix for this, as the function that should remedy the issue (Tru-motion) appears to be absent (or at least very well hidden) from the menu's on this particular model.

Kindest regards

smpearce22


Here's hoping he responds and can help us get to the bottom of this.

I'll keep you all updated.



Following my earlier message to our helpful LG rep, here's an Update for you all:


'Hi Smpearce22, I have sent your very useful/valuable info to our engineers in Korea. I will let you know when I hear back from them.

Thanks for letting us know about the issue.

Best

*****@LGUK '



So there we go :-)

Fingers crossed eh?
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post #229 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smpearce22 View Post

Following my earlier message to our helpful LG rep, here's an Update for you all:


'Hi Smpearce22, I have sent your very useful/valuable info to our engineers in Korea. I will let you know when I hear back from them.

Thanks for letting us know about the issue.

Best

*****@LGUK '



So there we go :-)

Fingers crossed eh?


Early days, but the 60PZ950 maybe back on my shopping list.

Thanks for the update!!
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post #230 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 01:19 PM
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Turrican4D also posted some very useful info in other threads that could help adjust black levels on this tv to VT30 levels, but it is very risky to do if you are not experienced in servicing LG tvs. I'm tempted to try this after 200 hours, but I don't want to end up with a $1900 paperweight. I wish more info was available on this so I could be more sure of myself attempting it.
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post #231 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 05:53 PM
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Back to 1080/24 issues some of us seem to be suffering.

Bare with me I've got some food for thought for you all, and something for you to try.

I've been playing with the TV all night, and reading up on the differences between 1080/60 and 1080/24.

Now the logic behind 1080/24 is that, if displayed through a supporting display it eliminates 3:2 pulldown (where the TV plays the frames back at different rates resulting in uneven or hitchy, stop - go motion which is especially noticeable on long panning shots)

Is that correct???

If so, the problem we seem to be experiencing is EXACTLY that when outputting from the source as 1080/24 (the very setting that is supposed to eliminate it!!)

Now here's my suggestion to anybody experiencing this problem, exactly as i am.


Go to your player and turn 1080/24 output OFF!

Now watch a Blu-ray and tell me what you see.


You should now see totally smooth, unhitching playback (strange right??)

Maybe I'm missing an obvious point about 1080/24 vs 1080/60 somewhere, but MAYBE this TV does not require the source to be output at 24hz because it does the necessary conversion on board?? but by selecting that mode on your player it causes an internal conflict, Hence the problems?

Otherwise I cannot understand why i don't see jittery playback when the TV states its displaying at 1080/60 but i DO when its displaying 1080/24.

Surely if playback appears correct at 1080/60 without hitching, juddering or strobing its doing its job and there's no cause for complaint?

If I've missed something obvious here, please somebody fill me in.

Otherwise, everyone who is having problems with playback at 1080/24 just try turning that function off on your player, watch a blu-ray and chime in with what you see.

Because i HONESTLY don't see ANY image issues, or uneven playback.
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post #232 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 06:33 PM
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When I do that I see a 3:2 pulldown. It looks okay, but it doesn't look like 24p. Most people probably won't care, but I watch a lot of movies in the theater, I make films myself, and I work at a very well-respected DVD/Blu-ray label. I can tell the difference. I can't help noticing because I seriously watch this stuff constantly. I paid $1500+ for real 24p, which is no small amount for me. If I didn't care about it, I'd have probably gotten a Panasonic with the better blacks.

The TV definitely requires a 24hz source for 24p. The whole reason this 24p thing is a mess is because you can't put 24 into 60. If you're doing that, you're just watching pretty much the same motion you'd have if you played a DVD on an old tube TV (except progressive instead of interlaced).

The jittering is happening because the TV isn't doing a 3:3 pulldown correctly, not because of a 3:2 pulldown, or you'd have seen hitching on any movie you watched on TV pretty much ever. That's why you see it on 1080/24p and not 1080/60. Because the 3:2 is functioning correctly and the 3:3 isn't.

Apologies if I sound overly bitter. My air conditioning is also not working currently :\\
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post #233 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 06:45 PM
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Back to square one then :-(

I thought it all seemed a bit to easy.

Lets hope LG gets back to us with a fix, I too like my movies as they were intended to be seen, so its a shame the PZ950 isn't quite up to it yet.

Thanks for clearing that up.
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post #234 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 11:24 PM
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There may be hope yet...

I just watched Cloverfield to test 24p.... which has a moving camera about 90% of the time through the movie and it didn't stutter once. Playback was smooth on my PS3.

My Onkyo 608 reported 24p to the tv so it was definitely on. I am using Expert2 mode with modified Flatpanelhd's settings. Film Mode is not greyed out and set to on. THX Cinema worked too, it defaults film mode to on.

You guys are running the newest firmware on the tv correct? Does anyone else have a PS3 to test 24p playback?
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post #235 of 1122 Old 07-06-2011, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

There may be hope yet...

I just watched Cloverfield to test 24p.... which has a moving camera about 90% of the time through the movie and it didn't stutter once. Playback was smooth on my PS3.

My Onkyo 608 reported 24p to the tv so it was definitely on. I am using Expert2 mode with modified Flatpanelhd's settings. Film Mode is not greyed out and set to on. THX Cinema worked too, it defaults film mode to on.

You guys are running the newest firmware on the tv correct? Does anyone else have a PS3 to test 24p playback?

if you force out 24hz your tv can do the pulldown instead. 'film mode' could be lgs 2:3 pulldown, a lot of sets call it something like that. with 2:3 pulldown everything actually will look smoother sometimes. Film/digital 24p has a natural tendency to strobe at 24fps and the strobing should be visible at 72hz. also keep in mind that cloverfield is digital and as such may not necessarily be 24hz from the camera itself. i know it was shot on the hvx and cinealta which both do some kind of pulldown to achieve 24p and thus may look smoother simply because it's digital. hvx in 1080p definitely uses an advanced pulldown method, though i think 720p is naturally 24hz. To be sure try it with a film based 24p film, like the hurt locker blu ray or something similar (any kubrick blu ray, especially during the slow pans and zooms in barry lyndon). if 72hz IS working, you should see consistent strobing during fast motion scenes and fast panning, but smooth projector like motion during static or slow moving pans. the shot in The Dark Knight during the opening scene when the gangsters zip line over to the roof of the bank is an excellent shot to look for correct film motion. on a proper display doing 72hz the subjects (two clown gangsters) will be moving across the frame in perfect motion while the buildings around them will have a slight judder/strobing effect, natural to film. i am speaking here of the one birds eye view shot where it ends with them landing on the adjacent rooftop.
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post #236 of 1122 Old 07-07-2011, 07:00 AM
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tried a ps3 already. no go. latest firmware on the tv, the ps3, and the other two bd players too.
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post #237 of 1122 Old 07-07-2011, 08:20 AM
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Yeah same here.

Latest firmware, PS3, and Standalone BD player all set to output at 1080/24

Still hitching, doesn't matter what picture setting I use or whether 'Film Mode' is On or Off.

I'm REALLY hoping LG can come through for us here.

If LG come back wanting to know more, we're going to need someone clued up with all the technical jargon to explain it accurately to the engineers so that they can recreate the problem in their test bay.

That way, they may be able to find and fix the problem via a firmware update.
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post #238 of 1122 Old 07-07-2011, 10:02 AM
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is there any difference between the usa and european model regarding to 24hz?
i tested a bluray and when I click info, the tv shows 1080p/24hz.
there are no other options under the av button available though (only, off, games, thx bioscoop and something else)

i did find the movement of big things in the movie go choppy but normal acting and stuff looked ok (i tested the mummy, and the pilars moving at the beginning went choppy)
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post #239 of 1122 Old 07-07-2011, 12:21 PM
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This might be a longshot, but what if you disable the pixel-shift orbiter (Set to normal)? I have the 50pz950, and I will try this when I get home today from work?
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post #240 of 1122 Old 07-07-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevilnut View Post

This might be a longshot, but what if you disable the pixel-shift orbiter (Set to normal)? I have the 50pz950, and I will try this when I get home today from work?

didnt have any effect when i tried it
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