Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxS30 Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 523 Old 02-23-2012, 09:43 AM
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For the price point, I haven't seen a better set, period. And in spite of what some may say, it doesn't stack up too badly against the next higher model except for the lack of 3D:

http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...DTV-Review.htm

I bought this set because I needed a TV quick and the price was definitely right. After comparing all 4 models, I figured it was the best choice for my living room where it will see a lot of use and a lot of little hands when my nieces and nephrew's come over. The cash I'll save will go to the set for my new HT, once I find a decent house. It will probably not be a Panasonic, though as I will go for the best possible PQ with no price limits. This set will likely get donated. My wife isn't crazy about having a huge set in the living room, tbh.

I haven't had any of the problems people have poste after a month of 18-20 hour per day use. I've watched a lot of content in Cinema mode with not brightness fluctuations that I can see. I calibrated my set using WoW and AVCHD in Custom mode and I am pretty satisficed withthe results. I'm going to invest in a Calman setup and do some work in the service menu to see if I can improve on the picture somewhat.

FWIW, here are my settings
Mode: Custom
Contrast: 74
Brightness: 58
Color: 47
Tint: +2
Sharpness: 30
NR, C.A.T.S, etc: off

Keep in mind that the final PQ is going to be determined primarily by the quality of your source. You may have to tweak things to get a picture to your liking.
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post #362 of 523 Old 02-23-2012, 01:44 PM
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Thanks Jass. I will check out your settings, as I need to find something I like in the custom mode. I have only been watching in Cinema, as I have calibrated with DVE and gotten excellent PQ, with the only gripe being that I would like something between warm 1 and 2. Panasonic told me that for Fbr issues, they recommend Cinema or Custom settings. I am hoping to get a good picture out of custom and then maybe I won't get the brightness fluct.
If you don't see it, then consider yourself lucky and don't go looking for it. It really isn't the end of the world, it is just a pretty big fly in the soup if you ask me. I don't have any other issues with mine, so i am very happy for what I paid.

Two small kids and better motion capability is what drove me to plasma after my LED was broken. Glass is much easier to clean pb and J off of, lol.

However, I don't think you need to steer clear of panasonic when you upgrade, you just need to buy one of their high end models. When it comes to Plasma, Panasonic appears to have written the book.
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post #363 of 523 Old 02-23-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

Thanks Jass. I will check out your settings, as I need to find something I like in the custom mode. I have only been watching in Cinema, as I have calibrated with DVE and gotten excellent PQ, with the only gripe being that I would like something between warm 1 and 2. Panasonic told me that for Fbr issues, they recommend Cinema or Custom settings. I am hoping to get a good picture out of custom and then maybe I won't get the brightness fluct.
If you don't see it, then consider yourself lucky and don't go looking for it. It really isn't the end of the world, it is just a pretty big fly in the soup if you ask me. I don't have any other issues with mine, so i am very happy for what I paid.

Two small kids and better motion capability is what drove me to plasma after my LED was broken. Glass is much easier to clean pb and J off of, lol.

However, I don't think you need to steer clear of panasonic when you upgrade, you just need to buy one of their high end models. When it comes to Plasma, Panasonic appears to have written the book.

You may be right. When the time comes I'm going to look for the best of the mature technologies. Fortunately, there is a store near me which is the go to place for TVs. They carry all the top brands, calibrated and in an environment set up for proper viewing. That was where I was able to compare all the Panasonic models side by side. They charge a little more, but the purchase includes delivery, setup, and testing it is actually a bargain. Plus, I love the fact that you can lounge around on big comfortable couches and watch movies, or even bring your own content.
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post #364 of 523 Old 02-23-2012, 06:09 PM
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@dtbreen76

Sorry, was a bit busy last few days.

Cinema mode I've left totally default. Sounds crazy but every adjustment I've tried hasn't resulted in a better picture. I'm very happy with dark room viewing in cinema for movies and the like. I've ordered the DVE disc to see if it offers any patterns that might assist me more in tuning this mode vs the AVSHD disc.

As for game and custom-- keep in mind I'm still playing but these are my current settings:

Game mode
Contrast 64
Brightness 63
Color 48
Tint 0
Sharpness 0
Color temp Normal
The rest OFF

As neutral as possible while attempting to maintain black levels for dim room play but bright enough for daytime play.

----------

Custom mode
Contrast 70
Brightness 67
Color 42
Tint +2
Sharpness 0
Color temp Warm
Color mgmt On
CATS Off
Video NR Medium

Bright room setting for TV and sports watching. Some black level is lost but given it's intent this won't matter as you'll never notice while the lights are on / windows are open. Tint and color management seems to help a bit with skin tones that tend to be a little too red with the warm temperature under custom. Still, I find warm helps to hide some of the flaws present in my uverse feed so there you go. Video noise reduction works.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."

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post #365 of 523 Old 02-24-2012, 07:04 AM
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Spent about 2 hours last night Calibrating the tv with disney wow And all I can say is wow!
I will post my settings later tonight This morning the kids were watching wow wow wubsy
In sd and it looked incredible! The blacks are so rich. I can't wait to try some blurays this weekend. The best $923 (tv+ disney wow) I've spent in a long time
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post #366 of 523 Old 02-24-2012, 08:39 AM
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Thanks Sage. I think your Custom settings are pretty close to what I have currently. I will try the color management and tint to see if it helps. I guess I assumed that color mangement wouldn't help and never tried it. You list warm as your color temp, is that 1 or 2?

You won't be moving Cinema very much other than contrast as it is pretty accurate from the get go. I think I dropped a couple points in brightness and in color, but otherwise it was pretty close to accurate (in a dark room anyway.)

I have gotten used to watching in Cinema during the daytime as well, mostly because the room isn't all that bright and the windows are mostly all behind the tv.

I watched Max Payne on blue ray last night which is a pretty dark movie without a lot of color and didn't experience any fbr.
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post #367 of 523 Old 02-24-2012, 11:32 AM
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Color management doesn't appear to do much until the higher brightness levels. In particular it helps blue to stay blue as, on my panel, blue tends to drift too far into red or green.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."

--Carl Sagan
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post #368 of 523 Old 02-24-2012, 03:03 PM
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sage,

I liked your custom settings, so I am using something very close. I will run my DVE disk on Custom to see how far off we are.

Do you think we are torching the tv with these higher brightness and contrast settings? I just don't want to drastically reduce tv life or make picture quality suffer down the road.
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post #369 of 523 Old 02-24-2012, 07:06 PM
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Mine did the random brightness spike thing early on with my first calibration attempt right after I put 200 hours on it. Since I've calibrated with 1badabangs cinema settings he posted (I turned the black level to dark and turned brightness up a hair) and no more unexplained brightness shifting
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post #370 of 523 Old 02-24-2012, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

sage,

I liked your custom settings, so I am using something very close. I will run my DVE disk on Custom to see how far off we are.

Do you think we are torching the tv with these higher brightness and contrast settings? I just don't want to drastically reduce tv life or make picture quality suffer down the road.

I wouldn't worry. You have to think about the default settings and how they're all at 100 for contrast and Panasonic actually recommends you stick with those. A measure of 60-70 actually seems quite conservative to me. I read some of these posts with values in the 40s and I just can't see how that would be watchable...

Watched IronMan 2 tonight (in cinema). Looked awesome with the exception of some really strange skin tones-- especially on Hammer in the hanger where he first meets the baddie. I'll have to watch this on one of my other displays and see if it looks as peculiar.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."

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post #371 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 04:55 AM
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my settings after using Disney WOW, very happy with these maybe need a little more tweaking.

Custom
contrast - 98
brightness - 67
color - 54
tint - +4
sharpness - 25
Cool 1
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post #372 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 08:11 AM
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So I've had this TV (60S30) for about 3 weeks now and I have noticed a decent amount of posterization and banding coming from blu-rays and some TV. However, it doesn't do it all of the time.
I did some reading and found something that pointed to me to the bit rate of a movie. The lower the bit rate, the more posterization. It was also mentioned that the VC-1 encoder commonly used by WB is a cause for this. Low and behold, the 2 movies (HPOOTP and the Matrix) are both WB.
I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this and if they have any input.

Thanks!
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post #373 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoy View Post

So I've had this TV (60S30) for about 3 weeks now and I have noticed a decent amount of posterization and banding coming from blu-rays and some TV. However, it doesn't do it all of the time.
I did some reading and found something that pointed to me to the bit rate of a movie. The lower the bit rate, the more posterization. It was also mentioned that the VC-1 encoder commonly used by WB is a cause for this. Low and behold, the 2 movies (HPOOTP and the Matrix) are both WB.
I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this and if they have any input.

Thanks!

I see the false contouring on TV shows frequently. Can't say that I've seen it in bluray, though. This panel with it's lack of processing tends to more clearly exhibit flaws in the source-- for better or worse. If it were a pair of speakers I might call it fairly transparent but then that's a totally different animal.

Flaws I have noticed in bluray: my green tint issue, horizontal banding, and uneven skin tones.

Overall, most things I've seen I've been able to duplicate on my other displays when looking CLOSELY. The increased size of this panel combined with it's startlingly good detail and motion resolution means I'm seeing flaws I wasn't able to immediately pick out on the previous sets-- they're there, just more noticeable on the larger set!

Generally speaking, this is one of the worst sets I've seen for TV viewing. The dim picture combined with the dearth of picture controls means most of the highly compressed crap your cable provider pushes on you looks like garbage. Honestly, I've seen several of panasonic's own 720p sets that do a better job with this kind of source material. At this point I'm deciding whether or not to keep the display based entirely on it's competence with bluray, it's lag-free game mode and the insanely low price I paid. Originally this was going to be our main set but I might repurpose it as my man cave display and purchase something higher end for the living room.

Edit: for what it's worth, my father returned his 60s30 for a 60st30 specifically due to the issues you mentioned. Seems the st may be a step up in this regard.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."

--Carl Sagan
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post #374 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 12:11 PM
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I think you might be onto something talking about how good the TV is results in seeing things not seen before on other TV's. I am coming from a 46" Sony LCD at 11' now to a 60' plasma at 11'. I am seeing a lot of other things that I have not seen before. Source flaws included.

The posterization and banding may/may not have to do with the codec and color bit depth of the source. Not everything has posterization issues. Some of the posterization that is visible when real close to the TV blends into shadowing when I start to move further back from the TV and looks normal. Perhaps that has to do with the signal being digital as opposed to analog? I don't know, but just a thought. Still researching.

The other issues that you have mentioned: my green tint issue, horizontal banding, and uneven skin tones - I have not experienced any issues with. I currently have my TV on cinema with 50 on contract, color and brightness, with sharpness turned to 0. The picture is excellent.
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post #375 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 01:46 PM
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Alright Gents-

I just got the wi-fi for the tv and started using the pandora music and was going to use the netflix for the kids. I really DO NOT want to be listening threw the TV speakers and obviously with my receiver. Is there a setting for this that I am completely missing that sends the sound out hdmi 1?

Thanks!

**Got it! Optical from TV to receiver. **
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post #376 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachLewi View Post

Alright Gents-

I just got the wi-fi for the tv and started using the pandora music and was going to use the netflix for the kids. I really DO NOT want to be listening threw the TV speakers and obviously with my receiver. Is there a setting for this that I am completely missing that sends the sound out hdmi 1?

Thanks!

**Got it! Optical from TV to receiver. **

If your receiver has cec control you can do it all lthrough HDMI I do. Only issue every time you turn on the tv receiver goes on. also set tv audio on theater. I use it all the time. Again depends on what receiver and is it HDMI control compatablel.

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post #377 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachLewi View Post

Alright Gents-

I just got the wi-fi for the tv and started using the pandora music and was going to use the netflix for the kids. I really DO NOT want to be listening threw the TV speakers and obviously with my receiver. Is there a setting for this that I am completely missing that sends the sound out hdmi 1?

Thanks!

**Got it! Optical from TV to receiver. **

Sorry to disappoint you,
You lose DD / AC3
You only get stereo out of it.

Connect your source audio directly to your receiver, and bypass the TV,
Use the TV for video only.
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post #378 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I see the false contouring on TV shows frequently. Can't say that I've seen it in bluray, though. This panel with it's lack of processing tends to more clearly exhibit flaws in the source-- for better or worse. If it were a pair of speakers I might call it fairly transparent but then that's a totally different animal.

Flaws I have noticed in bluray: my green tint issue, horizontal banding, and uneven skin tones.

Overall, most things I've seen I've been able to duplicate on my other displays when looking CLOSELY. The increased size of this panel combined with it's startlingly good detail and motion resolution means I'm seeing flaws I wasn't able to immediately pick out on the previous sets-- they're there, just more noticeable on the larger set!

Generally speaking, this is one of the worst sets I've seen for TV viewing. The dim picture combined with the dearth of picture controls means most of the highly compressed crap your cable provider pushes on you looks like garbage. Honestly, I've seen several of panasonic's own 720p sets that do a better job with this kind of source material. At this point I'm deciding whether or not to keep the display based entirely on it's competence with bluray, it's lag-free game mode and the insanely low price I paid. Originally this was going to be our main set but I might repurpose it as my man cave display and purchase something higher end for the living room.

Edit: for what it's worth, my father returned his 60s30 for a 60st30 specifically due to the issues you mentioned. Seems the st may be a step up in this regard.

Wouldn't moving up to the ST make the problem worse?

There is nothing you can do to make the source look better. You could have a Kuro and if the source is poor, it will look even worse than on the S30. Given the size of the set and the over compressed cable in my area, I pretty much expected the picture to be sub par. I'm actually surprised it isn't worse. Then again, I was only concerned with its blu ray performance. Other than the news, I don't really watch much cable content.

I checked out cable at the store while I was comparing sets. It pretty much sucked on that and every set. Of course that was a single line split among a store full of tvs. It is better at home, but the compression issues were still there. The best looking sets for cable were the 42" models. Anything over 55" was pretty crappy. The only place where you can get a minimally compressed cable signal from Comcast is the Philadelphia area, where I'm from originally. I wish I still lived there...
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post #379 of 523 Old 02-25-2012, 08:39 PM
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Wouldn't moving up to the ST make the problem worse?

There is nothing you can do to make the source look better. You could have a Kuro and if the source is poor, it will look even worse than on the S30. Given the size of the set and the over compressed cable in my area, I pretty much expected the picture to be sub par. I'm actually surprised it isn't worse. Then again, I was only concerned with its blu ray performance. Other than the news, I don't really watch much cable content.

I checked out cable at the store while I was comparing sets. It pretty much sucked on that and every set. Of course that was a single line split among a store full of tvs. It is better at home, but the compression issues were still there. The best looking sets for cable were the 42" models. Anything over 55" was pretty crappy. The only place where you can get a minimally compressed cable signal from Comcast is the Philadelphia area, where I'm from originally. I wish I still lived there...

My Samsung 2500 and Oppo 980 do wonders with DVD-- a set with good image processing will make even a craptastic image look presentable. We had the 60" sets set up side by side and he returned the S because he felt the image quality was a bit worse on challenging material. Bluray looked great on both. Not to mention the ST has wifi, an actual apps menu and that excellent louver filter which gives the set those deep blacks.

For me, the difference in price wasn't worth it for features I could care less about (looking at you, active 3d). Add in the fact that in a fully dark room the black levels are on par and both sets suffer the same gamma and green tint picture flaws and you have a TV that I really don't want to pay more than I have to for. Still, one of the better sets I've seen for movies and games and an impressive value.

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post #380 of 523 Old 02-26-2012, 01:38 AM
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Has anybody tried to push the drives as high as they can go with maintaining balance with R,G and B? I think I will give it a shot when I try calibrating again, just to see if I can increase light output in the cinema mode.
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post #381 of 523 Old 02-26-2012, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

My Samsung 2500 and Oppo 980 do wonders with DVD-- a set with good image processing will make even a craptastic image look presentable. We had the 60" sets set up side by side and he returned the S because he felt the image quality was a bit worse on challenging material. Bluray looked great on both. Not to mention the ST has wifi, an actual apps menu and that excellent louver filter which gives the set those deep blacks.

For me, the difference in price wasn't worth it for features I could care less about (looking at you, active 3d). Add in the fact that in a fully dark room the black levels are on par and both sets suffer the same gamma and green tint picture flaws and you have a TV that I really don't want to pay more than I have to for. Still, one of the better sets I've seen for movies and games and an impressive value.

I may look into a separate image processor. I built one for my RPTV back in the day for upscaling DVD content and it worked pretty well. I just think that my Comcast content is so hyper-compressed that there isn't much there for the processor to work with. It is "presentable" in the sense that HD is decent from around 10m til 8am and SD is watchable. But I'm used to the Philly area. Our SD was DVD quality and HD looked like full 1080i most of the time. I heard that they started compressing the signal a bit a few years ago, but up until 2008 it was very good.

As for the higher end models, the VT is the only one I would look at, not that the 3D models look much different. It just seems like the sweet spot price/features-wise. I don't think 3D in the home is ready for prime time, but if I get a hankering to see all the 3D content worth seeing (IOW Avatar, lol), it would be there.

I'm about to order an i1 Display and ChromaPure and start playing with the calibration to see if I can fix a few flaws. I'm not expecting miracles, but it may improve cable content PQ slightly.
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post #382 of 523 Old 02-26-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photochop View Post

Mine did the random brightness spike thing early on with my first calibration attempt right after I put 200 hours on it. Since I've calibrated with 1badabangs cinema settings he posted (I turned the black level to dark and turned brightness up a hair) and no more unexplained brightness shifting

I will have to give this a try. After calibrating with DVE, I am very happy with my Cinema mode, as I like the details in the black and the natural skin tones that it provides with black level at "light."

I will give it a try though, especially if it eliminates the brightness fluctuation.

Thanks.
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post #383 of 523 Old 02-26-2012, 09:52 PM
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I got this TV from Costco a few days ago and have it a a room that gets lots of light in the daylight. I had a Vizio in it's place before that. I must say that I could not get past the reflections this screen has. Even at night if there is a light "even a fairly dim light" that is behind me when I am watching I can not see the picture and I see the reflection of the light. To make things worse; in the day I sit off angle so that the light doesn't reflect into the angle of view and I still have to deal with the ultra-reflective black-lacquer finish on the edges reflecting the light. I got this TV as a gift for a very low price (I will not discuss price) but it's going back. I am going to move up to the GT30 model. I went into the store and tried to make sure that lights were in the picture and it seems to drastically subdue the light and show the picture on the screen vs the light. I know the VT30 is even better but I'm not going to go that high end.
I must admit that the picture on the S30 is very very nice when you are sitting more then 5 feet away. Sometimes I see this strange Venetian blind looking effect which may be the horizontal banding people are talking about and when you move too close to it you may see some really strange artifacting.
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post #384 of 523 Old 02-26-2012, 09:59 PM
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Spent a considerable time with my father's 60" ST. I'm officially jealous of his custom mode. While cinema is similarly beautiful even in it's default state-- it's the custom mode and it's ability to control panel brightness and gamma that makes a real difference. With the ST's custom mode the panel can be made into a convincing bright room set. My S, I feel, is too limited in this regard. Wonder why Panasonic wouldn't just load the same firmware between the two? It can't cost that much to give the S that kind of control would it? One more thing I noticed about the ST is it doesn't crush white-- a small detail but depending on the scene it can make a significant difference in PQ.

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post #385 of 523 Old 02-26-2012, 10:01 PM
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I got this TV from Costco a few days ago and have it a a room that gets lots of light in the daylight. I had a Vizio in it's place before that. I must say that I could not get past the reflections this screen has. Even at night if there is a light "even a fairly dim light" that is behind me when I am watching I can not see the picture and I see the reflection of the light. To make things worse; in the day I sit off angle so that the light doesn't reflect into the angle of view and I still have to deal with the ultra-reflective black-lacquer finish on the edges reflecting the light. I got this TV as a gift for a very low price (I will not discuss price) but it's going back. I am going to move up to the GT30 model. I went into the store and tried to make sure that lights were in the picture and it seems to drastically subdue the light and show the picture on the screen vs the light. I know the VT30 is even better but I'm not going to go that high end.
I must admit that the picture on the S30 is very very nice when you are sitting more then 5 feet away. Sometimes I see this strange Venetian blind looking effect which may be the horizontal banding people are talking about and when you move too close to it you may see some really strange artifacting.

Sorry bud, but the GT bands too.

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post #386 of 523 Old 02-26-2012, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

Sorry bud, but the GT bands too.

That's ok. I can deal with the banding. It didn't seem to do it much so it's not a big deal to me and as I said the picture quality itself was excellent, although it could stand to have a slightly brighter picture; my brother has an old Panny that is much brighter compared to this one. I just couldn't deal with the glare even in a dimly light room.
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post #387 of 523 Old 02-27-2012, 06:44 PM
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I bought a Panasonic TCP60S30 at amazon.ca for $CAN. 1299 and it arrived damaged. I returned it right away and was told I would get a refund in a few days. It's been two weeks now and I was told by their customer service that I will have to wait 4 weeks for a refund. They have no more units in stock.

This is ridiculously long to wait for a refund. What do I do now? Dispute the charge on my credit card? I am able to pay for this TV but I want my money back!!
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post #388 of 523 Old 02-28-2012, 08:07 AM
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So I spent a considerable time with my father's 60" ST30 the other night and I can honestly say I'm jealous of his custom mode! With the ability to customize panel brightness as well as gamma you can make the ST a much more convincing display for bright rooms!

As far as cinema goes: the picture quality wasn't leagues different from what I could see but his panel does have a bit better shadow detail and I have to mention that it DOESN'T CLIP WHITE-- which I was positively stunned to see...

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post #389 of 523 Old 02-28-2012, 11:24 AM
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Is there any truth to the rumor that That these displays have some type of power savings feature That can be bypassed To create a brighter picture ?
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post #390 of 523 Old 02-28-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by myhometheater View Post

is there any truth to the rumor that that these displays have some type of power savings feature that can be bypassed to create a brighter picture ?

cats?

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."

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