Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxVT30 Series Thread Discussion Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 11:43 AM
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As noted before in this thread, another benefit of running (any electronic item) 24x7 for the first 2 weeks or so would be beneficial in unearthing any potential failures well within your 90 days.

There is an exponentially decreasing (probability of failure) vs (time) graph for most circumstances including in vitro life, newborns and electronics.

So to stay on topic, D-nice's slides are really "even phosphor aging slides"; burn in would probably mean running full screen content of your choice 24x7. This way you give your display the 'best opportunity to fail".

Google for "The Bathtub Curve and Product Failure Behavior" 2 part paper by Dennis Wilkins
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post #542 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 01:59 PM
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If you really wanted to give it a thorough test during the 30 day return period, I would throw in some power and thermal cycles, too, rather than just leaving it on solid.

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post #543 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregF View Post

I remain curious if these slides would help prevent something bad. It seems to me that IF one reasons that care must be taken for X hours to avoid watching certain thing, and IF you run something with zero chance of causing bad effects during said 100 hours, the slides would therefore be beneficial.

You should use D-Nice's slide settings (posted on the other site) or they may not be 100% safe. Nothing has zero chance of causing a problem.
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post #544 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 04:07 PM
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Looks like the CNet review should go live some time tonight.
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post #545 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 04:23 PM
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Hopefully!! Lots of people on the edge, myself included.

Edit: Review is up, rated "Excellent". Black level cited as being slightly higher than VT20 (but no rising black levels this time according to Panasonic).
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post #546 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 05:47 PM
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After a few setup questions, the VT30 is ready to rock 'n roll in the Energy Star rated Standard picture mode. Well, maybe rock 'n roll isn't the best analogy for Standard mode. Mildly irritating elevator music may be more descriptive. Standard mode is quite grainy and uninvolving, and with a maximum light output of 4.7 fL, it's pretty hard to see objects like snow capped mountains, a hockey rink, a car's headlights, or a blazing sun in the picture.

What the heck is he looking at? My standard picture mode is essentially the same at THX...and is just outstanding. And everyone in my house thinks so, not just me. We leave it on standard for most of the time, only changing to THX when playing DVD. I just don't get this...
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post #547 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 05:56 PM
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post #548 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 06:58 PM
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I don't get why David K is insinuating that the VT30's black levels will rise. In the list of "Bads" he says last year's Panasonics lost black level performance (how is last year's issue a con on this year's model?), and also says he will assume that this year's Panasonics will do the same thing even though he links to his own report that Panasonic said the black levels on the 2011 models will no longer worsen. It's like he's not even giving the VT30's black level stability a chance and is condemning it right out of the gate.

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post #549 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 07:03 PM
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They said that levels were "relatively stable" this year (black levels)
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post #550 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I don't get why David K is insinuating that the VT30's black levels will rise. In the list of "Bads" he says last year's Panasonics lost black level performance (how is last year's issue a con on this year's model?), and also says he will assume that this year's Panasonics will do the same thing even though he links to his own report that Panasonic said the black levels on the 2011 models will no longer worsen.

I think he is playing it safe.. Why should he be convinced ? Not like Panny has a good track record for that over the past couple years. I dont blame him for that stance. Only time will tell.

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post #551 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I don't get why David K is insinuating that the VT30's black levels will rise. In the list of "Bads" he says last year's Panasonics lost black level performance (how is last year's issue a con on this year's model?), and also says he will assume that this year's Panasonics will do the same thing even though he links to his own report that Panasonic said the black levels on the 2011 models will no longer worsen. It's like he's not even giving the VT30's black level stability a chance and is condemning it right out of the gate.

Can you really blame him considering Panasonic's track record? At any rate, he'll do the long-term test and let everyone know. Truth will out, maybe?
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post #552 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by marleebrz View Post

They said that levels were "relatively stable" this year (black levels)

Yes, but the question is: what does Panasonic consider "relatively stable"?
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post #553 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 08:32 PM
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Yes, but the question is: what does Panasonic consider "relatively stable"?

My point exactly!
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post #554 of 6436 Old 06-01-2011, 11:34 PM
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for those interested, the review of the tc-p55vt30 is now available on cnet.com. enjoy!
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post #555 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by olu78 View Post
for those interested, the review of the tc-p55vt30 is now available on cnet.com. enjoy!
It's already been posted about 8 posts up from yours and is already being discussed.....

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post #556 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 09:39 AM
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I’m wondering if something is wrong with my “standard” picture mode. When I first got the TV, the standard mode picture was dim and somewhat weak, but this got corrected when I turned off the C.A.T.S feature. I’m not sure what it stands for, but depending on room lighting it would dim the picture too much and I think this was the cause of the “fluctuating brightness” that I would see on occasion. I also slightly adjusted contrast and brightness downward, but otherwise all standard settings are sill close to the original values. When switching to THX, I only see an extremely marginal picture improvement and sometimes no improvement at all. I have not changed any THX settings. Both picture modes produce an outstanding picture, and I have also played the THX video test that indicated that I’m getting the same result with both picture modes. I know that’s not much of a test, but my eyes tell me that both seem the same, including regular tv content. Here is a comment from the Cnet review relative to the standard mode…

As usual the at-first-glance stellar rankings for default power have a big caveat: the default Standard setting is dim. On the VT30, in fact, it's a complete joke: just 3.4 fL of maximum brightness thanks to a hard cap, and a picture dim enough to likely make most viewers immediately choose a brighter (and more power-hungry) mode.

Did turning off CATS remove that "hard cap" mentioned in the review?
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post #557 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
I don't get why David K is insinuating that the VT30's black levels will rise. In the list of "Bads" he says last year's Panasonics lost black level performance (how is last year's issue a con on this year's model?), and also says he will assume that this year's Panasonics will do the same thing even though he links to his own report that Panasonic said the black levels on the 2011 models will no longer worsen. It's like he's not even giving the VT30's black level stability a chance and is condemning it right out of the gate.
Those were pretty much my thoughts, also. He should remove the MLL rise issue from the negatives category, and just put the same info. in a notation, or a questionables category.
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post #558 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 12:25 PM
 
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I read earlier in this post that the VT30 has 10pt grayscale adjustment, but don't see that in the users manual. Can someone that has calibrated the VT30 verify if it is still 2pt or if it 10pt.

Thanks!
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post #559 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
I think he is playing it safe.. Why should he be convinced ? Not like Panny has a good track record for that over the past couple years. I dont blame him for that stance. Only time will tell.
If I recall, last year Panasonic initially stated there was NO problem at all and even their recent statement is worded very questionably IMO. Given that insiders have already claimed that the blacks will rise (which information he probably has), I will tend to believe them over Panasonic.

Likely scenario: the VT30 blacks will rise, but to what extent this time? Probably not as bad as the VT25.

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post #560 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cf181user
I read earlier in this post that the VT30 has 10pt grayscale adjustment, but don't see that in the users manual. Can someone that has calibrated the VT30 verify if it is still 2pt or if it 10pt.

Thanks!
It will be 10 point when the new firmware is released this month. The firmware fixes the ISF modes and this.
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post #561 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cf181user View Post

I read earlier in this post that the VT30 has 10pt grayscale adjustment, but don't see that in the users manual. Can someone that has calibrated the VT30 verify if it is still 2pt or if it 10pt.

Thanks!

There is a 10 pt greyscale adj in Custom mode. Called WB detail adjustment. It is also in the ISF modes.

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post #562 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

If I recall, last year Panasonic initially stated there was NO problem at all

Not exactly true. They stated that it was by design and not a flaw (they never denied that black levels rose). This year they are claiming they will remain relatively stable. If they double or worse, they will lose total credibility, so I doubt that will happen (although Samsung flat out lied about fixing their Cinema issues, so who knows with Panasonic). I do agree with caution in this regard until CNET or our trusted calibrators can confirm.
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post #563 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by spacecoast View Post

I'm wondering if something is wrong with my standard picture mode. When I first got the TV, the standard mode picture was dim and somewhat weak, but this got corrected when I turned off the C.A.T.S feature. I'm not sure what it stands for, but depending on room lighting it would dim the picture too much and I think this was the cause of the fluctuating brightness that I would see on occasion. I also slightly adjusted contrast and brightness downward, but otherwise all standard settings are sill close to the original values. When switching to THX, I only see an extremely marginal picture improvement and sometimes no improvement at all. I have not changed any THX settings. Both picture modes produce an outstanding picture, and I have also played the THX video test that indicated that I'm getting the same result with both picture modes. I know that's not much of a test, but my eyes tell me that both seem the same, including regular tv content. Here is a comment from the Cnet review relative to the standard mode

As usual the at-first-glance stellar rankings for default power have a big caveat: the default Standard setting is dim. On the VT30, in fact, it's a complete joke: just 3.4 fL of maximum brightness thanks to a hard cap, and a picture dim enough to likely make most viewers immediately choose a brighter (and more power-hungry) mode.

Did turning off CATS remove that "hard cap" mentioned in the review?

C.A.T.S. is the ambient light sensor, I had questioned previously if turning this off would solve some of the issues with the brightness self adjusting, I believe it would, but I haven't had my set delivered yet to confirm for myself.
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post #564 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 05:17 PM
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Not exactly true. They stated that it was by design and not a flaw (they never denied that black levels rose). This year they are claiming they will remain relatively stable. If they double or worse, they will lose total credibility, so I doubt that will happen (although Samsung flat out lied about fixing their Cinema issues, so who knows with Panasonic). I do agree with caution in this regard until CNET or our trusted calibrators can confirm.

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant...I should have worded it a little better...they stated they were not at fault at all and it was normal functioning as intended.

I'm becoming less and less of a Samsung prospect. The spontaneous screen cracking - and refusing to deal with the issue for the most part - has made me completely rule them out. No way in hell I will risk that sort of situation and potentially see 3K go down the toilet.

If I buy a plasma this year, it will be a Panasonic.

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post #565 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 05:28 PM
 
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Yeah, that's kind of what I meant...I should have worded it a little better...they stated they were not at fault at all and it was normal functioning as intended.

I'm becoming less and less of a Samsung prospect. The spontaneous screen cracking - and refusing to deal with the issue for the most part - has made me completely rule them out. No way in hell I will risk that sort of situation and potentially see 3K go down the toilet.

If I buy a plasma this year, it will be a Panasonic.

...you would rule out an entire manufacturer over a handful of complaints out thousands of units sold? It's likely that just as many Panasonic customers are having various problems as well. It's all part of consumer electronics.
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post #566 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 06:42 PM
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...you would rule out an entire manufacturer over a handful of complaints out thousands of units sold? It's likely that just as many Panasonic customers are having various problems as well. It's all part of consumer electronics.

Consumer Reports ranks Panny reliability tops, and Samsung lower down. And Samsung customer service is poor if you do have a problem. I believe David was complaining less about the problem and more about Samsung's refusal to take care of the problem when it occurs (similar complaints have been reported throughout this forum from unhappy customers about Samsung refusing to deal with its loud buzzing plasmas). I'd take my chances with a Panny over a Sammy anytime (and I have owned 2 Samsung TVs and 2 Panasonic TVs).
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post #567 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 10:15 PM
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Im a bit confused about their review of the vt30....at least the calibration part. They said the "Custom" calibration was still off with program material even though the report shows everything being almost spot on exact and therefore preferred THX. I can't imagine how the material looks off with results like what they got in "Custom" unless they've been looking at the material the wrong way for ever or their meters need adjustment.

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post #568 of 6436 Old 06-02-2011, 11:45 PM
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Im a bit confused about their review of the vt30....at least the calibration part. They said the "Custom" calibration was still off with program material even though the report shows everything being almost spot on exact and therefore preferred THX. I can't imagine how the material looks off with results like what they got in "Custom" unless they've been looking at the material the wrong way for ever or their meters need adjustment.

This is why pro calibrators always verify their calibrations with known reference material.

There have been times where the graphs look perfect, but your eyes tell you something different.

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post #569 of 6436 Old 06-03-2011, 12:46 AM
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...you would rule out an entire manufacturer over a handful of complaints out thousands of units sold? It's likely that just as many Panasonic customers are having various problems as well. It's all part of consumer electronics.

+1. To be frank, Samsung is outselling Panasonic at the moment. If we can figuratively say that 1 percent of each has problems, in terms of actual numbers, there will be more Samsungs that will have problems just because of the large sales numbers. In addition, read carefully the Cnet report, the Panasonic is better than the Samsung D8000 only in black level and shadow detail. The other picture qualities that are also important like gamma, colors are better on the Samsung. What really striked me was that in 3D, Samsungs were better in reducing crosstalk. That took me by surprise because this was the strongest point of the Panasonics. I am sure the VT30 is a great TV only that for us in Europe, it has additional video processing problems that makes us to rule them out easily
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post #570 of 6436 Old 06-03-2011, 02:44 AM
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Hi guys. I just posted on the thread..so you bought a new plasma thread...i would appreciate any help. Returned my vt30 55 for samsung d8000. I wanted bigger and brighter. I got it but the picture clarity isnt as good especially noticable on faces..picture noise I think. So now im going back to bb to get the 65 vt30. I have to admit, the longer I had the first one, the more I liked it.

I want a brighter picture, great motion for sports, and clarity. Should I look at led. I just want the panasonic to be brighter. Maybe this can be done at calibration time. Help.
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