Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxVT30 Series Thread Discussion Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Topspin14m View Post

No line bleed here. At least nothing noticeable. I think the Fbr issue relates to a faulty Eco sensor. The same thing was the case with my Sony LCD. It was fixed with a firmware update. Essentially, the tv had a sensor to measure the brightness of the room and adjust the set accordingly. There was no way to disable it. Problem was that when a scene was dark, the tv thought the room was all of a sudden darker and would dim. After a firmware update (delivered via USB) the problem was no more.

The VT30 has a CATS sensor that can be turned off in the Picture menu. In Panasonic's the FB is related to the plasma panel driving mechanism. We have been told that is is a feature of that mechanism and can not be corrected with a firmware update. I have not seen any FB on my VT30, but others have. It may be a lot to lot variation issue.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Topspin14m View Post
No line bleed here. At least nothing noticeable. I think the Fbr issue relates to a faulty Eco sensor. The same thing was the case with my Sony LCD. It was fixed with a firmware update. Essentially, the tv had a sensor to measure the brightness of the room and adjust the set accordingly. There was no way to disable it. Problem was that when a scene was dark, the tv thought the room was all of a sudden darker and would dim. After a firmware update (delivered via USB) the problem was no more.
Not true. Has nothing to do with the sensor.

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Originally Posted by NashvilleMark View Post
The VT30 has a CATS sensor that can be turned off in the Picture menu. In Panasonic's the FB is related to the plasma panel driving mechanism. We have been told that is is a feature of that mechanism and can not be corrected with a firmware update. I have not seen any FB on my VT30, but others have. It may be a lot to lot variation issue.
Well, new firmware was released in Europe today and 4-5 European members over at HDJ are confirming that FBr is now completely eliminated after testing multiple movies. Time for U.S. VT30 owners to start demanding a fix because it clearly CAN be done.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
Not true. Has nothing to do with the sensor.



Well, new firmware was released in Europe today and 4-5 European members over at HDJ are confirming that FBr is now completely eliminated after testing multiple movies. Time for U.S. VT30 owners to start demanding a fix because it clearly CAN be done.
Assuming the FBr issues were created in the first place as a consequence of trying to meet Energy Star requirements it makes sense that a fix available to European purchasers might not be available to us here in the U.S.A.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post
Assuming the FBr issues were created in the first place as a consequence of trying to meet Energy Star requirements it makes sense that a fix available to European purchasers might not be available to us here in the U.S.A.
I don't think I'd go that far. I'd guess total energy consumption is the same before and after the firmware fix.

Also, why did the European displays have the issue as well then prior to this firmware fix and not just the U.S. displays?

Time to start making some NOISE at Panasonic. They don't have much incentive to fix this if people just accept it. Open a case with Panasonic if you haven't done so already! Fixing the problem in 1 market and not another is completely unacceptable and is in itself admission of a problem if a working fix was indeed provided.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashvilleMark

The VT30 has a CATS sensor that can be turned off in the Picture menu. In Panasonic's the FB is related to the plasma panel driving mechanism. We have been told that is is a feature of that mechanism and can not be corrected with a firmware update. I have not seen any FB on my VT30, but others have. It may be a lot to lot variation issue.
That may be true. The Sony's sensor could be turned off in the menu as well. Didn't change anything. It seems odd to me that Fbr only occurs on very dark scenes. That would indicate a sensor problem to me because otherwise it never happens. It could be something in the driving mechanism, but wouldn't you expect to experience it at other points?

Edit: I'd also add that if it is a software issue with the sensor it may be that part of the issue is an inability to properly disable it in the menu. I just think that this has been ruled out pretty quickly by people. I may try to use bright lights on the sensor to counteract the issue and see what happens during those dark movies.

This would also explain why some people haven't experienced it. It may be due to the lighting in their rooms. Anyway, it might be something else, but I'd wonder how the sensor was ruled out as a source of the issue - especially as panasonic has admitted nothing.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
Not true. Has nothing to do with the sensor.



Well, new firmware was released in Europe today and 4-5 European members over at HDJ are confirming that FBr is now completely eliminated after testing multiple movies. Time for U.S. VT30 owners to start demanding a fix because it clearly CAN be done.
The million dollar question is why would Panasonic not give the fix to everyone?

 

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Old 06-20-2011, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
I don't think I'd go that far. I'd guess total energy consumption is the same before and after the firmware fix.

Also, why did the European displays have the issue as well then prior to this firmware fix and not just the U.S. displays?

Time to start making some NOISE at Panasonic. They don't have much incentive to fix this if people just accept it. Open a case with Panasonic if you haven't done so already! Fixing the problem in 1 market and not another is completely unacceptable and is in itself admission of a problem if a working fix was indeed provided.
As noted on the other forum I hope you are right. To answer the question though I would think Panasonic would incorporate the same energy saving features in all their models without regard to country if for no other reason than standardizing the manufacturing process. Now making corrections though could well be dictated by restrictions unique to one market.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
Not true. Has nothing to do with the sensor.



Well, new firmware was released in Europe today and 4-5 European members over at HDJ are confirming that FBr is now completely eliminated after testing multiple movies. Time for U.S. VT30 owners to start demanding a fix because it clearly CAN be done.
I'm skeptical about that

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Old 06-20-2011, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post
The million dollar question is why would Panasonic not give the fix to everyone?
Firmware upgrades are frequently available in other countries before the US (it was that way for every firmware upgrade with my Pioneer BluRay player) due to all the liability issues in the US (i.e., too many lawyers here). I'm sure it will come to the US by next week.
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Old 06-20-2011, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Its murder here in CA when one is near or above Tiers 2 or 3! My brother's 20 year old AC cost $400+ for just 3-4 days of usage in the summer months! Techlord
How big is the house? 50,000 quare feet? $100 per day to run AC?
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Firmware upgrades are frequently available in other countries before the US (it was that way for every firmware upgrade with my Pioneer BluRay player) due to all the liability issues in the US (i.e., too many lawyers here). I'm sure it will come to the US by next week.

That's would be great news however why has Panasonic made no anouncement on the current firmware update fixing the FB? Or our upcoming fix for the FB issue in the US? Why so secret?

 

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Old 06-20-2011, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

The million dollar question is why would Panasonic not give the fix to everyone?

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Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

That's would be great news however why has Panasonic made no anouncement on the current firmware update fixing the FB? Or our upcoming fix for the FB issue in the US? Why so secret?

For starters, Panasonic North America maintains completely different software for their displays than the EU division - they are not interchangeable unlike some CE devices (i.e. Pioneer Blu-ray players). Secondly, today's firmware "fix" hasn't even been publicly released in the EU - only emailed privately to people who've opened cases with Panasonic for FBr issues.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

How big is the house? 50,000 quare feet? $100 per day to run AC?

It would take a house of that order to ring up $100 per day on A/C. Maybe not 50,000 square feet, but certainly north of 10,000. That said, people with 3,000-4,000 square feet and no solar panels or home fuel cell can ring up monthly bills in the high triple digits in the worst months in California because of the tiered rate structure.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:41 AM
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Maybe the Europe firmware Fbr fix is an instruction to the panel to STOP refering to the data from some sensory input............maybe something that cannot be fixed but maybe eliminated from use in the formation of the picture.

Just speculation..........
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:28 AM
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Maybe the Europe firmware Fbr fix is an instruction to the panel to STOP refering to the data from some sensory input............maybe something that cannot be fixed but maybe eliminated from use in the formation of the picture.

Just speculation..........
This would be my theory. To prove we should locate the sensor and tape it over/shine light on it. See if it results in Fbr either way.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:33 AM
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I've noticed PQ issues using HDMI on my 55VT30. HD satellite broadcasts exhibit a fair amount of banding/contouring and faces at times are patchy. DVD PQ is the same. On the other hand BD and BD3D are stellar but BD movies do show the banding/contouring but not as prevalent as HD broadcasts.

I used to have a PZ800U panasonic connected to the sat PVR via component and never saw the degree of banding and patchiness that I'm experiencing with an HDMI connection.

Anyone else experience this?....
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post

For starters, Panasonic North America maintains completely different software for their displays than the EU division - they are not interchangeable unlike some CE devices (i.e. Pioneer Blu-ray players). Secondly, today's firmware "fix" hasn't even been publicly released in the EU - only emailed privately to people who've opened cases with Panasonic for FBr issues.

Thanks for that update, I guess my next question is will Panasonic release this fix only for those who call them and complain?

 

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Old 06-21-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Topspin14m View Post

This would be my theory. To prove we should locate the sensor and tape it over/shine light on it. See if it results in Fbr either way.

Early on in the reporting of this problem people tried taping over the sensor and it has no effect on this issue.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:29 PM
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Alright, here's the report:

European P50VT30E:

Normal: Minimal FBr
Cinema: FBr
THX: NO FBr
Game: Minimal FBr
Professional 1: NO FBr
Professional 2: NO FBr


+1. Let's just hope it gets fixed all the way.

 

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Old 06-21-2011, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Alright, here's the report:

European P50VT30E:

Normal: Minimal FBr
Cinema: FBr
THX: NO FBr
Game: Minimal FBr
Professional 1: NO FBr
Professional 2: NO FBr

+1. Let's just hope it gets fixed all the way.

What content did you use for your testing?

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Old 06-21-2011, 04:22 PM
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Question on range of 3D glasses: I've tried this in daytime and at night in darkened room, but seems like the effective range of the 3D glasses is about 15' regardless. I have the 65vt30 used in a great room (half kitchen half family room) where the seating distance in an 'L' seating group opposite the TV wall is 15-20' in a 25'x25' room. Works fine if I move a chair to the center of the room but the wife doesn't like gutsy decor option :-).

Where is the emitter on the TV and does anyone know of an effective means to get a few more feet of range?
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dawghouse View Post

Question on range of 3D glasses: I've tried this in daytime and at night in darkened room, but seems like the effective range of the 3D glasses is about 15' regardless. I have the 65vt30 used in a great room (half kitchen half family room) where the seating distance in an 'L' seating group opposite the TV wall is 15-20' in a 25'x25' room. Works fine if I move a chair to the center of the room but the wife doesn't like gutsy decor option :-).

Where is the emitter on the TV and does anyone know of an effective means to get a few more feet of range?

Page 14 of the Owner's Manual shows where the IR emitter is for 3D. I don't know of any way to get any extra range. That is where I start to lose signal. This distance exceeds the manufacturer stated distance.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:47 PM
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What content did you use for your testing?

Sorry for the confusion there, but that information was taken from another post on another site. URL: http://www.**************.com/showth...d=1#post249071

 

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Old 06-21-2011, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dawghouse View Post

Question on range of 3D glasses: I've tried this in daytime and at night in darkened room, but seems like the effective range of the 3D glasses is about 15' regardless. I have the 65vt30 used in a great room (half kitchen half family room) where the seating distance in an 'L' seating group opposite the TV wall is 15-20' in a 25'x25' room. Works fine if I move a chair to the center of the room but the wife doesn't like gutsy decor option :-).

Where is the emitter on the TV and does anyone know of an effective means to get a few more feet of range?

I have the same problem. The thing is to get the best 3d effects it is best to try to fill up as much of your viewing field as possible. That means 6-8 feet viewing distance. I myself get a portable chair and prop it up in the appropriate range. I don't watch 3d all the time, but when I do I want to be impressed. My wife doesn't like 3d so that works for me.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dawghouse View Post

Question on range of 3D glasses: I've tried this in daytime and at night in darkened room, but seems like the effective range of the 3D glasses is about 15' regardless. I have the 65vt30 used in a great room (half kitchen half family room) where the seating distance in an 'L' seating group opposite the TV wall is 15-20' in a 25'x25' room. Works fine if I move a chair to the center of the room but the wife doesn't like gutsy decor option :-).

Where is the emitter on the TV and does anyone know of an effective means to get a few more feet of range?

I have been told that there is a 3rd party universal glasses solution that requires purchase of an emitter and its own glasses that does not rely on IR.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:09 AM
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Update 6-22-11

Calibrated a 55VT30 with the latest firmware. CalMAN's Panasonic auto calibrate function still needs work to be complete and functional. However, ControlCAL is 100% functional, so I used it. After much more time than normal getting used to and experimenting with the control interaction, ABL behavior, and panel brightness selections I finally got excellent results in ISF Day and Night mode. Measurements and material look excellent.
Calibrators take note: special care must be taken with color tuning and panel brightness med/high selections.

Check out this link to the original post and see the new attachments. I don't know a lot about this stuff, but looking at the graphs and what they are supposed to represent based on the descriptions, comparing to pre-firmware, and it looks like a large improvement!
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
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Hi All,
Got my 65VT30 delivered last night!!! Stunning TV for sure! Pretty happy with the color on THX setting out of the box, haven't had time to adjust things much yet. I have a computer (mac mini) hooked up to it and can DEFINITELY see/reproduce the FBr issues. Playing games/watching any content I have not been able to see it, doesn't mean it's not there, just means it's not bad enough to notice in "normal" use. Kinda sucks as a computer monitor though, moving windows around/resizing them always makes it happen. Also noticing a little banding effect when dragging a window around the screen, I'm thinking this may be because of some setting somewhere, so kinda upset about that. My old sharp LCD seems to have done much better with the computer.

Is the 60hz flicker just how plasmas are? I'm pretty sensitive to refresh rate and can pretty easily see it. I switched to 96(?)hz and it's much better, but it's still... there... Anything I can do to help reduce it at all?

This is my first plasma and one of the first things I noticed is the difference in response time from my LCD. WOW. It's SOOO much faster, scrolling text and such in vid games is literally crystal clear, not smeared/blurred at all. Really cool.

In summary: Stunning PQ with HD content, this TV's defects seem to be VERY noticeable when using it hooked up to a computer (dvi to HDMI in my case), and anything to be done about the 60hz flicker?

Thanks!
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:06 PM
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There is more noticeable flickering with 96hz than there is with 60hz as well as false countering at 96hz so it is surprising that you are reporting more issues at 60hz.

At least this is the case with 1080p/24 input. Not sure about what kind of input you are using.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbezzo View Post

Hi All,
Got my 65VT30 delivered last night!!! Stunning TV for sure! Pretty happy with the color on THX setting out of the box, haven't had time to adjust things much yet. I have a computer (mac mini) hooked up to it and can DEFINITELY see/reproduce the FBr issues. Playing games/watching any content I have not been able to see it, doesn't mean it's not there, just means it's not bad enough to notice in "normal" use. Kinda sucks as a computer monitor though, moving windows around/resizing them always makes it happen. Also noticing a little banding effect when dragging a window around the screen, I'm thinking this may be because of some setting somewhere, so kinda upset about that. My old sharp LCD seems to have done much better with the computer.

Is the 60hz flicker just how plasmas are? I'm pretty sensitive to refresh rate and can pretty easily see it. I switched to 96(?)hz and it's much better, but it's still... there... Anything I can do to help reduce it at all?

This is my first plasma and one of the first things I noticed is the difference in response time from my LCD. WOW. It's SOOO much faster, scrolling text and such in vid games is literally crystal clear, not smeared/blurred at all. Really cool.

In summary: Stunning PQ with HD content, this TV's defects seem to be VERY noticeable when using it hooked up to a computer (dvi to HDMI in my case), and anything to be done about the 60hz flicker?

Thanks!

Is the tv in "Size 2" mode on the input the mac mini is hooked up to?

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Old 06-22-2011, 12:55 PM
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Is the tv in "Size 2" mode on the input the mac mini is hooked up to?

I'll have to check tonight to be sure, but it's using the full screen, not cut off or stretched anything like that. Took me a bit to find where to change that. I do have "overscan on" checked on the mini, as without it, there's a nice 4 inch black border around the whole thing.

thanks,
matt
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