Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxVT30 Series Thread Discussion Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 9 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #241 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 07:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
David_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: delete me
Posts: 983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I don't think they did anything on purpose so much as pushed these out extra fast which you can see is effecting completeness of the software.

Unfortunatly, I'm guessing most TV makers are lowering R&D and development of picture quality spending and moving that money to R&D work on Network applications and user applications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot View Post

I can't help but feel like Panasonic has gone out of it's way this year to screw up it's plasma lineup.

I wonder how long it will be before the first TV virus hits?


ST30 only has accurate gamma in Cinema setting, and the gamma cannot be corrected for the other inputs. Unfortunately cinema setting is not very bright at all.

GT30 has floating blacks with no way of fixing them. Also has gamma issues.

VT30 makes calibration overly difficult, and may also have floating blacks.


To top it all off they chose to limit the sizes drastically, thus forcing anyone who wants a set smaller than 50 inches to buy the ST30. So if you do not want a TV larger than 46 inches, they're forcing you to buy their cheapest 3D TV. Not exactly the smartest idea I've ever seen.


buytme
David_B is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #242 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 08:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tigerriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

But they don't have Floating Blacks this year. They do have Fluctuating Brightness this year to varying extents which seems to be the exact opposite of Floating Blacks (which presumably would be similarly irritating).

People use different terms for different problems. I've always thought "rising blacks" was the term used for Panasonic's black levels slowly worsening over time.

"Floating blacks" is the term most often used for black levels suddenly adjusting mid scene. This was mentioned on the GT30 CNET review, and I've seen people mention it in this thread regarding the VT30.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

But their cheapest 3D TV is still a great TV. I don't consider a sub-50" TV to be a candidate for folks wanting to do critical viewing regardless of brand or model. 46" and smaller would seem to be more suitable for casual TV watching. I've always preferred smaller screen sizes (42" and 46") but my next TV will be a 50 incher (maybe in a year or two). They've done their marketing research before making this decision, and based on the large number of unsold surplus 50" VT20s and VT25s still being sold 5+ months after they've ended production, which also happened with last year's 50" V10 and the 50" PZ800U the year before that, there is apparently not enough demand for a 50" flagship model, much less one that's even smaller.

Fair enough, but I think they could have at least offered the GT30 at 46 inches.

Tigerriot is offline  
post #243 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 08:37 AM
Member
 
Tapidlittle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm thinking of buying this TV. I don't have a 3D AV processor, for now I am very happy with my Emotiva UMC-1. I know it doesn't support 3D. I have a PS3 to read my Blu-Rays. Is there anyway to enjoy 3D with my actual equipment? Can I buy a splitter (one for the TV and one for my UMC-1) ?

Is there any HDMI return from the TV ?

thanks!
Tapidlittle is offline  
post #244 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 08:43 AM
Member
 
spacecoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


This is an excellent set, though it is hampered by non functional and not fully developed adjustments.

Quote:


Having downloaded the latest version of CalMAN, I got the TV interfaced with my laptop and calibration gear to check out the automatic calibration feature. Unfortunately, at this stage of it's development, the feature proved to be useless for the most part.

Quote:


I agree with your findings. Calibrating these displays is a real bitch and the results are highly dependent on the windowed pattern size.

One of the features of the VT30 that appealed to me was the ability for the set to be quickly calibrated by a software program. Quess not. Seems at this point paying for calibration may not be a good choice, if I'm understanding the above statements. Am I wrong here?
spacecoast is offline  
post #245 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 08:45 AM
"Don't PM Me Bro"
 
RandyWalters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: El Segundo, Calif
Posts: 17,432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot View Post

People use different terms for different problems.

As it should be. But David is using the Floating Black term incorrectly on the 2011 model. When D-Nice first discovered this problem on his GT30 sample, he said something to the effect that it's the opposite of Floating Blacks, and it came to be known as Fluctuating Brightness.


Quote:


I've always thought "rising blacks" was the term used for Panasonic's black levels slowly worsening over time.

That is the correct term for that issue.


Quote:


"Floating blacks" is the term most often used for black levels suddenly adjusting mid scene. This was mentioned on the GT30 CNET review, and I've seen people mention it in this thread regarding the VT30.

But the problem on the GT30 is Fluctuating Brightness/Fluctuating Gamma, not Floating Blacks. David and some random people posting on AVS are using the wrong term for this issue, and it causes confusion here and with the general public who are not following the issue on the message forums.

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR605, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
RandyWalters is offline  
post #246 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 08:45 AM
Member
 
adrian s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapidlittle View Post

I'm thinking of buying this TV. I don't have a 3D AV processor, for now I am very happy with my Emotiva UMC-1. I know it doesn't support 3D. I have a PS3 to read my Blu-Rays. Is there anyway to enjoy 3D with my actual equipment? Can I buy a splitter (one for the TV and one for my UMC-1) ?

Is there any HDMI return from the TV ?

thanks!

PS3 does not require HDMI 1.4 or ARC for 3D. The only drawback is that it limits you to DD for audio.

consider the source
adrian s is offline  
post #247 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 08:52 AM
Member
 
Tapidlittle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian s View Post

PS3 does not require HDMI 1.4 or ARC for 3D. The only drawback is that it limits you to DD for audio.

Not sure I understand. Let say I buy a standalone 3D player, how do I connect it without a 3D A/V processor? Do I have to pass by the TV first and then connect another HDMI cable from the TV to the processor?
Tapidlittle is offline  
post #248 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 08:53 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
D-Nice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 14,934
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 184
You do realize that the autocal software will cost north of $800, right? On top of that, it will not properly setup these displays based on how these displays operate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecoast View Post

One of the features of the VT30 that appealed to me was the ability for the set to be quickly calibrated by a software program. Quess not. Seems at this point paying for calibration may not be a good choice, if I'm understanding the above statements. Am I wrong here?

D-Nice is offline  
post #249 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 09:11 AM
Member
 
spacecoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


You do realize that the autocal software will cost north of $800, right? On top of that, it will not properly setup these displays based on how these displays operate.

I was not planning on buying the software myself, but rather that calibaration would be a quick process that would not be as expensive as a traditional manual method. And no, I was not aware that it will not properly work until just now...after all, there was a video which implied it was a simple and effective process.
spacecoast is offline  
post #250 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 10:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spdntrxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pleasanton,Ca
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapidlittle View Post

I'm thinking of buying this TV. I don't have a 3D AV processor, for now I am very happy with my Emotiva UMC-1. I know it doesn't support 3D. I have a PS3 to read my Blu-Rays. Is there anyway to enjoy 3D with my actual equipment? Can I buy a splitter (one for the TV and one for my UMC-1) ?

Is there any HDMI return from the TV ?

thanks!

The ps3 will do 3d video when connected straight to the tv.. It will however not do the uncompressed sound ..

Johnny
Klipsch,Denon,Parasound,Sunfire
spdntrxi is offline  
post #251 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 10:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
whipit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SGF
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapidlittle View Post

Not sure I understand. Let say I buy a standalone 3D player, how do I connect it without a 3D A/V processor? Do I have to pass by the TV first and then connect another HDMI cable from the TV to the processor?

You would hook up the BD to the TV via hdmi. Then the optical out from the tv to get the sound which would be 2channel(maybe pro logic surround). There is no hdmi out on tv's. Maybe if you had an hdmi splitter before the tv or a BD player with dual hdmi outs. Hope this helps.
whipit is offline  
post #252 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 11:27 AM
Member
 
iTanas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit View Post

You would hook up the BD to the TV via hdmi. Then the optical out from the tv to get the sound which would be 2channel(maybe pro logic surround). There is no hdmi out on tv's. Maybe if you had an hdmi splitter before the tv or a BD player with dual hdmi outs. Hope this helps.

Not correct. VT30 can output sound from HDMI as long as it's HDMI 1.4 on the other device:

ARC (Audio Return Channel)

Using a single HDMI cable, VIERA can output the audio portion of a TV broadcast to your home cinema system, so you can enjoy full-fledged surround sound. You no longer need two cables to connect VIERA to a home theater system.
http://www.panasonic.net/avc/viera/u...a.html#fimages
iTanas is offline  
post #253 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 11:39 AM
 
GSDTrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapidlittle View Post

Not sure I understand. Let say I buy a standalone 3D player, how do I connect it without a 3D A/V processor? Do I have to pass by the TV first and then connect another HDMI cable from the TV to the processor?

Just go HDMI from the PS3 to the TV, then use a TOSlink cable from the PS3 to the UMC-1. Go into "Sound settings" in the XMB of the PS3, turn on "Audio Multi-Output" , then go into "Audio output settings" and select "Optical Digital" and you are good to go once you save those settings on the PS3.
GSDTrainer is offline  
post #254 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 01:51 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,062
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You do realize that the autocal software will cost north of $800, right? On top of that, it will not properly setup these displays based on how these displays operate.

For $800, I'm getting D-Nice in my living room and having my set calibrated by a pro.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #255 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 02:13 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,709
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

For $800, I'm getting D-Nice in my living room and having my set calibrated by a pro.

That might even buy two calibrations.
htwaits is online now  
post #256 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 04:09 PM
Member
 
Tapidlittle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

Just go HDMI from the PS3 to the TV, then use a TOSlink cable from the PS3 to the UMC-1. Go into "Sound settings" in the XMB of the PS3, turn on "Audio Multi-Output" , then go into "Audio output settings" and select "Optical Digital" and you are good to go once you save those settings on the PS3.

If I do buy a player with 2 HDMI outputs, will I be able to get high res audio AND 3D ??
Tapidlittle is offline  
post #257 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 04:59 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,709
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapidlittle View Post

If I do buy a player with 2 HDMI outputs, will I be able to get high res audio AND 3D ??

Yes as long as your receiver has a HDMI input and at least LPCM capability.

Note: You can also get lossless audio if your player has analog (RCA) surround outs, and your receiver has analog (RCA) surround inputs.
htwaits is online now  
post #258 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 05:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
whipit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SGF
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTanas View Post

Not correct. VT30 can output sound from HDMI as long as it's HDMI 1.4 on the other device:

ARC (Audio Return Channel)

Using a single HDMI cable, VIERA can output the audio portion of a TV broadcast to your home cinema system, so you can enjoy full-fledged surround sound. You no longer need two cables to connect VIERA to a home theater system.
http://www.panasonic.net/avc/viera/u...a.html#fimages

Ahh, I wasn't considering ARC. Thanks
whipit is offline  
post #259 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 06:02 PM
 
GSDTrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapidlittle View Post

If I do buy a player with 2 HDMI outputs, will I be able to get high res audio AND 3D ??

Why would you buy a new player when all you need is a new TOS link cable that can be had for $6????? The PS3 will do video over the HDMI and audio over the TOS link connected to the UMC-1. All you have to do it turn audio multi output on in the PS3 and select digital optical in the audio output settings. It can output either LPCM 2 channel or DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or AAC. By default the PS3 is set to output LPCM. To get the others just check the boxes in the XMB and save. Its simpler than buying a new player and cheaper
GSDTrainer is offline  
post #260 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 06:06 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,709
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

Why would you buy a new player when all you need is a new TOS link cable ...

Tapidlittle wrote that he wants hi res audio (lossless). TOS link can't do lossless audio.
htwaits is online now  
post #261 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 06:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spdntrxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pleasanton,Ca
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

Why would you buy a new player when all you need is a new TOS link cable that can be had for $6????? The PS3 will do video over the HDMI and audio over the TOS link connected to the UMC-1. All you have to do it turn audio multi output on in the PS3 and select digital optical in the audio output settings. It can output either LPCM 2 channel or DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or AAC. By default the PS3 is set to output LPCM. To get the others just check the boxes in the XMB and save. Its simpler than buying a new player and cheaper

this is turning into a playstation thread.... anyways the PS3 will NOT DO LOSSLESS audio during 3d playback.. PERIOD> end of story.

Johnny
Klipsch,Denon,Parasound,Sunfire
spdntrxi is offline  
post #262 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 06:27 PM
 
GSDTrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Tapidlittle wrote that he wants hi res audio (lossless). TOS link can't do lossless audio.

But LPCM is lossless, it is just that the PS3 is doing the decoding
GSDTrainer is offline  
post #263 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 06:28 PM
 
GSDTrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post

this is turning into a playstation thread.... anyways the PS3 will NOT DO LOSSLESS audio during 3d playback.. PERIOD> end of story.

Chill out dude. If you do not like it put everyone on your ignore list and only read your posts
GSDTrainer is offline  
post #264 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 07:25 PM
Senior Member
 
milesed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What is UMC-1?
milesed is offline  
post #265 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 07:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spdntrxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pleasanton,Ca
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesed View Post

What is UMC-1?

Emotiva unit.

Johnny
Klipsch,Denon,Parasound,Sunfire
spdntrxi is offline  
post #266 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 07:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Hammie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesed View Post

What is UMC-1?

It is an Emotiva pre/pro. You pair it with external amplifiers. It can also be described as an AVR without internal amplifiers.
Hammie is offline  
post #267 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 08:14 PM
Member
 
NashvilleMark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
X
NashvilleMark is offline  
post #268 of 6436 Old 05-17-2011, 11:16 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,709
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

But LPCM is lossless, it is just that the PS3 is doing the decoding

You're right. I convert lossless to LPCM and send it over HDMI to a receiver that's unable to handle DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD on it's own. The same can't be done using TOS Link. LPCM over TOS Link would be lossy.
htwaits is online now  
post #269 of 6436 Old 05-18-2011, 01:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
NorthTV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You do realize that the autocal software will cost north of $800, right? On top of that, it will not properly setup these displays based on how these displays operate.

Unfortunately some of us are stuck in remote locations where the only calibration service available is whatever Best Buy offers. Can we at least hope the Best Buy calibrators will have the autocal software and that they can properly setup these displays based on how these displays operate?
NorthTV is offline  
post #270 of 6436 Old 05-18-2011, 03:28 AM
 
GSDTrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

You're right. I convert lossless to LPCM and send it over HDMI to a receiver that's unable to handle DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD on it's own. The same can't be done using TOS Link. LPCM over TOS Link would be lossy.

OK, thats my last words on that subject for the time being. Dont want to upset anymore "members" trying to help out and answer someones hookup question. Lord know every other thread on AVS stays right on topic through 4,000 plus posts
GSDTrainer is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt30 65 Inch 3d Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic , Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P55vt30 55 Inch 1080p 3d Plasma Hdtv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off