Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSleeper View Post
Are you saying that i can make Fullscreen whites on my Plasma looks just as vivid and bright as on a Edge Led ? (now they are greyish when displaying whites in fullscreen)

With at calibration ...

:0)
And why do you care about full-screen whites? A properly calibrated plasma at recommended peak white output will have the same color of white as a properly calibrated lcd. 99% of the whites in normal broadcast and movie material will appear exactly the same on either of these displays.
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post #542 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 02:54 PM
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zoyd,

On my D7000, I find that ABL kicks in at about 35 ftL. If I remember correctly, you found the same on your D8000.

Larry
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post #543 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

zoyd,

On my D7000, I find that ABL kicks in at about 35 ftL. If I remember correctly, you found the same on your D8000.

Larry

yes but that depends on pattern. A better measure is when ABL kicks in as a function of APL. I've found that when set for peak white of 30 ftL that ABL kicks in on the D8000 above an average video level of 53% (gamma = 2.2). APLs of this level are not common, most daylight material I've tested runs between 30-40%. If you calibrate for 40 ftL (or god forbid, higher), that level will decrease to the point where it could affect normal material, but I just don't agree with people who think that kind of brightness level is necessary unless they live in a solarium in which case they should stick with lcd's.
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post #544 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 06:48 PM
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Just as an aside, I'm having my set calibrated by Doug Weil of Lion AV. I have the notorious screen peeling issue so I had to reschedule. He'll be in Houston for a few days starting July 7th. He has a few appointments open if anybody is interested.
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post #545 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

yes but that depends on pattern. A better measure is when ABL kicks in as a function of APL. I've found that when set for peak white of 30 ftL that ABL kicks in on the D8000 above an average video level of 53% (gamma = 2.2). APLs of this level are not common, most daylight material I've tested runs between 30-40%. If you calibrate for 40 ftL (or god forbid, higher), that level will decrease to the point where it could affect normal material, but I just don't agree with people who think that kind of brightness level is necessary unless they live in a solarium in which case they should stick with lcd's.


zoyd,

I read your discussion on HDJ about the experiments that you performed. (Nice work, BTW.) I don't remember what method you used to set the peak white level? I think it was with the large APL pattern but I can't seem to be able to find it now to confirm.

Quite a while ago I remember seeing other measurements of average video levels for movies where it was only about 15%.

I think the problem that TheSleeper and others are having is that they are viewing these sets in a store environment and looking at displays that are being pushed to the point where the ABL kicks in. You know -- the look-at-me marketing technique.


Larry
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post #546 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

zoyd,

On my D7000, I find that ABL kicks in at about 35 ftL. If I remember correctly, you found the same on your D8000.

Larry

I've been playing with the settings to try to minimize ABL from kicking in and out so often, but have not found the right combination. It appears to be more of a function of the mix of patters and colors on the screen than anything else (a screen with many small patterns or objects has less propensity to kick in ABL than a screen with few and big patters.) Does any of the calibrations in page 1 prevent/minimize ABL?

Thanks,
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post #547 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 08:46 PM
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Durny,

Simply put, the automatic brightness limiter (ABL) is triggered when the average picture level (APL) exceeds some value. That value is hard wired in the TV. All plasmas use some sort of ABL.

There are no settings to defeat the ABL in the Samsung. Actually, I don't know that you would want to do so since the heat generated by the screen is a direct function of the APL. You don't want to melt your panel, right?

If you've got your TV hooked up to a computer, you can see where APL occurs by displaying a small very bright white box and gradually making the box larger and larger until the brightness of the white starts to dim a bit.


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post #548 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Durny,

Simply put, the automatic brightness limiter (ABL) is triggered when the average picture level (APL) exceeds some value. That value is hard wired in the TV. All plasmas use some sort of ABL.

There are no settings to defeat the ABL in the Samsung. Actually, I don't know that you would want to do so since the heat generated by the screen is a direct function of the APL. You don't want to melt your panel, right?

If you've got your TV hooked up to a computer, you can see where APL occurs by displaying a small very bright white box and gradually making the box larger and larger until the brightness of the white starts to dim a bit.


Larry

Larry, have you changed any of your settings or are they still the same?
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post #549 of 3305 Old 06-28-2011, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Durny,

Simply put, the automatic brightness limiter (ABL) is triggered when the average picture level (APL) exceeds some value. That value is hard wired in the TV. All plasmas use some sort of ABL.

There are no settings to defeat the ABL in the Samsung. Actually, I don't know that you would want to do so since the heat generated by the screen is a direct function of the APL. You don't want to melt your panel, right?

If you've got your TV hooked up to a computer, you can see where APL occurs by displaying a small very bright white box and gradually making the box larger and larger until the brightness of the white starts to dim a bit.

Larry

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Larry. But maybe something else then is going on; the effect seems to me more a result of relative change rather than a result of APL. With parameters all off (i.e. Dynamic Contrast, Eco stuff, etc. ) and Brightness/Contrast/Cell Light dialed down, the fluctuation still occurs. In some cases I can predict when it is going to happen, such as when people's faces in the foreground slowly pan into the picture.

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post #550 of 3305 Old 06-29-2011, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

zoyd,

I read your discussion on HDJ about the experiments that you performed. (Nice work, BTW.) I don't remember what method you used to set the peak white level? I think it was with the large APL pattern but I can't seem to be able to find it now to confirm.

Quite a while ago I remember seeing other measurements of average video levels for movies where it was only about 15%.

I think the problem that TheSleeper and others are having is that they are viewing these sets in a store environment and looking at displays that are being pushed to the point where the ABL kicks in. You know -- the look-at-me marketing technique.


Larry

That's right, I used the large APL patterns. Movies do tend to be at lower video levels but probably above 15%. I measured the opening of Blade Runner and that ranged between 10-15%. By the way if you want to try this it's easy with the i1pro and HCFR. Fix your i1pro on a tripod and display a full screen 50% pattern. Move the i1pro away from the screen until you see the signal fall off and then move it back slightly to recover. This will be 6-8 feet away depending on screen size. The i1pro is now sampling a large area of your display where you can measure APL. Play the movie and record the luminance values using the free measures histogram plot. Convert luminance to video level using the gamma for your display assuming you are below the ABL threshold.
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post #551 of 3305 Old 06-29-2011, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durny1 View Post

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Larry. But maybe something else then is going on; the effect seems to me more a result of relative change rather than a result of APL. With parameters all off (i.e. Dynamic Contrast, Eco stuff, etc. ) and Brightness/Contrast/Cell Light dialed down, the fluctuation still occurs. In some cases I can predict when it is going to happen, such as when people's faces in the foreground slowly pan into the picture.

Durny1

The only time you should see any level shifting (gamma shifting) should be either at high APL (brightness limiter) or going from typical to low (or vice versa) APLs. Here is a plot from a thread on HDJ showing the "stable gamma" range on my D8000 with cell 20, contrast 70 and gamma=2.2

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post #552 of 3305 Old 06-29-2011, 05:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by agogley View Post

Just as an aside, I'm having my set calibrated by Doug Weil of Lion AV. I have the notorious screen peeling issue so I had to reschedule. He'll be in Houston for a few days starting July 7th. He has a few appointments open if anybody is interested.

Congrats, enjoy it!
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post #553 of 3305 Old 06-30-2011, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
Larry, have you changed any of your settings or are they still the same?

Funny you should ask. Yes, on June 28th I did another calibration on my 64D7000 using a lower cell light, a higher contrast, and a gamma of 0 instead of +1.

Movie mode
Cell light 10
contrast 94
brightness 65
sharpness 10
color 48
tint 50/50
black tone off
dynamic off
gamma 0
flesh tone 0
edge enhance off
motion lighting off
xvYcc off
color tone warm2
digital noise off
mpeg noise off
-------------------------------------

color space
Red 20, 75, 50
Green 100, 30, 25
Blue 35, 8, 43
Yellow 14, 26, 43
Cyan 100, 48, 52
Magenta 40, 85, 44
-----------------------------------------

White Balance
r-off 29
g-off 22
b-off 26
r-gain 21
g-gain 26
b-gain 24
-----------------------------------------

10-pt interval
1: 0, 0, 2
2: -1, 1, 1
3: 2, 4, 1
4: 1, 2, 2
5: 1, 2, 1
6: 1, 3, 0
7: -2, 1, -3
8: -3, 2, -3
9: -1, 1, -6
10: -4, -1, -3
----------------------------------------------


I've attached a pdf containing the basic results of the new calibration. Yes, I know the quality is pretty bad.

I still maintain that settings from the D8000 should not be used for the D7000.


Larry

 

64D7000 cal 06282011.pdf 60.9072265625k . file
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post #554 of 3305 Old 07-01-2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Funny you should ask. Yes, on June 28th I did another calibration on my 64D7000 using a lower cell light, a higher contrast, and a gamma of 0 instead of +1.

Movie mode
Cell light 10
contrast 94
brightness 65
sharpness 10
color 48
tint 50/50
black tone off
dynamic off
gamma 0
flesh tone 0
edge enhance off
motion lighting off
xvYcc off
color tone warm2
digital noise off
mpeg noise off
-------------------------------------

color space
Red 20, 75, 50
Green 100, 30, 25
Blue 35, 8, 43
Yellow 14, 26, 43
Cyan 100, 48, 52
Magenta 40, 85, 44
-----------------------------------------

White Balance
r-off 29
g-off 22
b-off 26
r-gain 21
g-gain 26
b-gain 24
-----------------------------------------

10-pt interval
1: 0, 0, 2
2: -1, 1, 1
3: 2, 4, 1
4: 1, 2, 2
5: 1, 2, 1
6: 1, 3, 0
7: -2, 1, -3
8: -3, 2, -3
9: -1, 1, -6
10: -4, -1, -3
----------------------------------------------


I've attached a pdf containing the basic results of the new calibration. Yes, I know the quality is pretty bad.

I still maintain that settings from the D8000 should not be used for the D7000.


Larry

These were definitely not a subtle change, why would another calibration yield so different settings on the same panel? I just trying to get a better understanding of how this works, thanks
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post #555 of 3305 Old 07-01-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Funny you should ask. Yes, on June 28th I did another calibration on my 64D7000 using a lower cell light, a higher contrast, and a gamma of 0 instead of +1.

I still maintain that settings from the D8000 should not be used for the D7000.


Larry

Thanks so much, Larry! I've been lurking at this forum ever since I got my first plasma set, and I was really excited to come across this thread when I upgraded this week. I was even more excited to see that one calibration-sharing member (you!) had the exact set I picked up, since I opted for the D7000 instead of the D8000. Really appreciate you sharing your results.

Our set will end up in a room that is very bright during the daytime thanks to two large windows with white blinds and full windowed door, so hopefully this will work out well.

Currently halfway through a 100-hour break-in at the moment. My first plasma was a Panasonic (late 2006), and I did no break-in on it and noticed a lot of really annoying IR after about 6 to 8 months. Thanks to the "marching ants" issue I had, I got the set replaced with a new model year Panasonic in February 2008. The IR was so annoying on my first set that I did a 200 hour break-in on the new one just to be absolutely certain things were settled in well, and I have never even noticed the first hint of IR. (consequently, my parents got a 42" Panasonic plasma in 2006 when I got my 50" and never ran any break-in on theirs. When I went over to their house last Christmas, I could very clearly see that the picture was dimmer in the center portion of the screen and brighter on each side. Looks like lots of SD content caught up with them, but they don't seem to have noticed so I didn't point it out to them).

This time around, I have company over about 96 hours into getting the set hooked up and playing the break-in disc, so I wanted to try and increase the break-in results a bit. I set my brightness, contrast, and cell light to their maxes and have been letting it run. I had read here previously (though it was back in 2008) that running at full brightness would help break-in better, but the negative was that if your DVD stopped looping, you might end up with really bad IR from the DVD stand-by screen if you didn't catch that it had stopped. Not a problem here, but the screen is very warm and I'm not sure how I feel about that. I haven't noticed any peeling of the RBF that folks have mentioned (knock on wood), but I'm worried I'll be pushing my luck letting it run straight for another 40+ hours. After reading about the ABL and APL from you (which was all new info to me), do you think it would be smart to dial back the brightness, etc. during the last half of the break-in? Or does it even really matter, and I shouldn't worrying about changing anything until I'm ready to sit down and actually view some real content this weekend?

- Dave
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post #556 of 3305 Old 07-01-2011, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post

These were definitely not a subtle change, why would another calibration yield so different settings on the same panel? I just trying to get a better understanding of how this works, thanks


It is not unusual. I made some significant changes in the cell and contrast settings. I approached the white balance differently. Everything affects everything else and the initial conditions matter greatly. I am just experimenting. It's the nature of my training.

Next time, I plan on setting cell to 20, adjusting contrast to yield about 30 ftL (like the one that I just posted), and probably set the white balance using a different method. All that will produce yet another distinct set of values.

That's not to say that the final outcome of any calibration will be visibly different from another. They all end up at the same place as far as the panel is concerned. There are many ways to skin a cat.

Larry
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post #557 of 3305 Old 07-02-2011, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

It is not unusual. I made some significant changes in the cell and contrast settings. I approached the white balance differently. Everything affects everything else and the initial conditions matter greatly. I am just experimenting. It's the nature of my training.

Next time, I plan on setting cell to 20, adjusting contrast to yield about 30 ftL (like the one that I just posted), and probably set the white balance using a different method. All that will produce yet another distinct set of values.

That's not to say that the final outcome of any calibration will be visibly different from another. They all end up at the same place as far as the panel is concerned. There are many ways to skin a cat.

Larry

Wow, so basically what you are saying is that all three of your calibrations provide the same picture quality? You're basically finding new settings to get the same picture?
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post #558 of 3305 Old 07-02-2011, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post

Wow, so basically what you are saying is that all three of your calibrations provide the same picture quality? You're basically finding new settings to get the same picture?


Yes, that's what I am doing -- basically.

I'm trying to reproduce the flickering brightness (changing gamma) that some members see very frequently. So far, during the almost seven weeks that I've owned the TV, I have only seen it twice. Both times were in movies during very dim scenes. Once it was quite apparent but only lasted about a second or two and did not "flicker." The other time it was hardly noticeable and again without flickering. I have not seen it at all during sporting events or news programming.

Unfortunately those that say they see it frequently tend not to post their settings and that alone makes me a bit suspicious about the validity of the claims. To quote one member, "... it will literally mid-scene adjust 4 or 5 times rapidly over the span of a few seconds during the same shot..." I have not been able to reproduce this behavior. (However, I have seen it happen that way on a Panasonic GT30. The GT30 was my first choice for a new TV and it was this issue with that set that changed my mind. Zoyd actually exchanged a GT30 for a D8000 because of this problem.)

I think that I have ruled out that using the Movie mode exacerbates the problem. Next, I will experiment with the Standard mode -- at least until I can't stand it any more.

So... that's basically what I am doing.


Larry
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post #559 of 3305 Old 07-02-2011, 08:25 PM
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Larry: I also own a 64d7000. I've had it for 2 weeks and I am definitely experimenting as well. My last tv was a calibrated Samsung ln52a860. It was a real nice tv with a real good picture. Going from LCD to Plasma has been a bigger transition than I thought. I like the plasma a lot, and at times, the picture is amazing. But that being said, I miss my LCD at times. It took me a while, but I really got used to it, and rarely if ever made any adjustments to it.
Is it going to take me even longer to adjust to my plasma? It just seems to be inconsistent as far as picture quality goes. At times it just doesn't seem as sharp to me as my LCD did. Is this the result of it still being new and the phospors haven't settled? I would also assume a professional calibration would eventually help. Any assistance would be appreciated.
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post #560 of 3305 Old 07-02-2011, 09:17 PM
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HEELSFINL4,

I don't think that I can give you any more assistance than what you've received over in the calibration forum. The results of your June 28th calibration look very good to me. A professional calibration won't make the picture any better than what you did on your own. Nice job, by the way.

Maybe you just need more than two weeks to get used to the differences in the technology between LCD and plasma -- and to let the phosphors age a bit more. The two technologies do present distinctly different pictures sometimes. I like the plasma look as do most all here in the plasma display forum.

Larry
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post #561 of 3305 Old 07-02-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Yes, that's what I am doing -- basically.

I'm trying to reproduce the flickering brightness (changing gamma) that some members see very frequently. So far, during the almost seven weeks that I've owned the TV, I have only seen it twice. Both times were in movies during very dim scenes. Once it was quite apparent but only lasted about a second or two and did not "flicker." The other time it was hardly noticeable and again without flickering. I have not seen it at all during sporting events or news programming.

Unfortunately those that say they see it frequently tend not to post their settings and that alone makes me a bit suspicious about the validity of the claims. To quote one member, "... it will literally mid-scene adjust 4 or 5 times rapidly over the span of a few seconds during the same shot..." I have not been able to reproduce this behavior. (However, I have seen it happen that way on a Panasonic GT30. The GT30 was my first choice for a new TV and it was this issue with that set that changed my mind. Zoyd actually exchanged a GT30 for a D8000 because of this problem.)

I think that I have ruled out that using the Movie mode exacerbates the problem. Next, I will experiment with the Standard mode -- at least until I can't stand it any more.

So... that's basically what I am doing.


Larry

Lol, one too many basically. Thanks for taking the time to post your settings and results. I did notice the flicker when I first got my tv, especially on netflix and dvd's. Your last settings before this one corrected it, with your latest setting I actually saw it again while watching the rite, but not as bad as when I first got the set. I'm actually going to switch back to your previous setting.
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post #562 of 3305 Old 07-02-2011, 09:58 PM
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Hi Larry,

I am a bit lost with the new d8000 Plasma that Samsung sent me to replace my beloved c8000 Plasma.

I am using Tivo's movie picture settings but have several issues.

I have read a great deal on the 59d8000 but am having a harder time setting up the picture vs the 58c8000.

It seems like 3d mode makes the picture dull, hazy and not as awe-inspiring not the d8000 vs the c8000. I used standard on the c8000 for 3d and was always amazed at the picture for movies like Tron and Avatar. With the d8000, I have tried all the picture modes but not been satisfied. The sametwo movies appear duller, darker and less defined on the d8000. I am using the relax picture mode with standard vs the warm1 that comes on relax. That seems the best for Tron, however, Avatar looks very dull and almost washed out. There is little vibrance in the night or day shots compared to the c8000. Neither set was professionally calibrated or anything.

A major problem I keep experiencing is fluctuating brightness. I am not sure if it is the same idea of APL being discussed in the last few posts but I disappointed by the d8000 doing this. Last year I took the g25 back and went with the c8000 to avoid those floating blacks.

I realize you have the d7000 but you seem very knowledgeable to Samsung Plasmas in general. Is there something special I am missing or should be doing for the two problems I mentioned above?

I am not happy with the picture pop's or dull 3d color on the d8000. I also noticed a slight flicker watching lord of the rings extended on blu ray in addition to the brightness fluctuations. I was using CS at 24p for everything in my post. CS seems reduce the brightness pops.

Sorry for the long post. If anyone, Larry included, has any feedback or suggestions, let me know.
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post #563 of 3305 Old 07-03-2011, 09:40 AM
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Larry,
I'm using your most recently posted settings, from 6-30, on my 64D7000. (Looks great; much thanks.) Last night my wife and I were watching The King's Speech, and I noticed quite a bit of flickering during the scene in which Elizabeth first visits Logue, particularly shots of his anteroom. We were streaming the HD version from Amazon video, if that matters.
Perhaps that will help you reproduce something.
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post #564 of 3305 Old 07-03-2011, 12:21 PM
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Yes the 3D on this set looks washed out and dull :0(

I was surprised on how awfull the 3D picture was on this set ...

No settings will change that (Tried all i can think off)
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post #565 of 3305 Old 07-03-2011, 12:39 PM
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3D looks great on my D8000... dont know what you guys are seeing. I put the cnet setting into my Cal-day picture mode.

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post #566 of 3305 Old 07-03-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post

Lol, one too many basically. Thanks for taking the time to post your settings and results. I did notice the flicker when I first got my tv, especially on netflix and dvd's. Your last settings before this one corrected it, with your latest setting I actually saw it again while watching the rite, but not as bad as when I first got the set. I'm actually going to switch back to your previous setting.


Thanks for the feedback.

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly: You found the settings in number 2 produced fewer brightness fluctuations than number 3?

#1: cell = 15, cont = 80, bright = 66, gamma = +1

#2: cell = 15, cont = 80, bright = 62, gamma = +1

#3: cell = 10, cont = 94, bright = 65, gamma = 0


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post #567 of 3305 Old 07-03-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post

3D looks great on my D8000... dont know what you guys are seeing. I put the cnet setting into my Cal-day picture mode.

What setting do you use for 2d then?

I just dialed in the Chet settings for cal day for 3d like you have done. The colors and environment in Avatar is simply duller and not nearly as vibrant as seen with the c8000. The colors and textures are just seem overly desaturated.

Since the pic modes share color space, I am curious what you do for 2d..

I was using movie mode with tivos settings here on avs, however, that would require alternative color space.
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post #568 of 3305 Old 07-04-2011, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Thanks for the feedback.

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly: You found the settings in number 2 produced fewer brightness fluctuations than number 3?

#1: cell = 15, cont = 80, bright = 66, gamma = +1

#2: cell = 15, cont = 80, bright = 62, gamma = +1

#3: cell = 10, cont = 94, bright = 65, gamma = 0


Larry


Hi Larry,

I have the 59D7000 and am using your settings. They seem to be working great although I have an issue with brightness on this set...I had the same issue with the Samsung PN58B860: Whenever the brightness is above a certain point, it adds noise to picture. You can easily see this whenever you watch a film in 2.39:1 aspect ration with bars on top/bottom. Using your second set of settings, I get the noise when brightness is set above 50. As soon as I tick it up to 51, a little digitial noise is present in the letterbox area. You have to move close to the screen to see the pixels.

I know this is a dumb question but can this set be calibrated to compensate for this? Higher cell light, maybe?
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post #569 of 3305 Old 07-04-2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Thanks for the feedback.

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly: You found the settings in number 2 produced fewer brightness fluctuations than number 3?

#1: cell = 15, cont = 80, bright = 66, gamma = +1

#2: cell = 15, cont = 80, bright = 62, gamma = +1

#3: cell = 10, cont = 94, bright = 65, gamma = 0


Larry

Larry:

In Case #1, don't you mean gamma = 0?
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post #570 of 3305 Old 07-04-2011, 12:36 PM
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Just wanted to give huge thanks to LarryInRI for the PN64D7000 settings (second set). My set looks fantastic now where dynamic and simple manual settings did not.

I'm only three days into ownership. Do these need to be changed over time like hours of use, or only over long months of time?
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