Samsung D7000 & D8000 Settings/Calibration Thread - Page 74 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2191 of 3305 Old 02-09-2012, 12:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Hiker,

It certainly looks like 130/73 is where your set wants to be.

One other thing you might want to try before changing the red gain is to reduce the sub-contrast in the service mode ADC Result menu. That may give you the headroom for the user Contrast and prevent the pinking -- or. hopefully not, it may just reduce the available range of the Contrast control.

Larry

Yeah, in all cases it completed the calibration extremely quickly, but since I feed it 4:4:4 from the Oppo, guess I might leave it at that.
Though I was curious why with PC Level it was so content with the default values. It's the only mode I'm pretty confident is running 1-255.

Will see what a few downward clicks in sub-contrast does.
AvidHiker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2192 of 3305 Old 02-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Member
 
alxrmero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I will look thru these posted settings and I'll pick from there which one suits my eye. Oh and for those suggesting to have my set calibrated (No thanxs)
alxrmero is offline  
post #2193 of 3305 Old 02-09-2012, 01:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
That was just a warning that there is a chance that none of the settings posted here will be appropriate for your TV. We're not really suggesting you pay to have it calibrated, but you can DIY for under $100. The fact you came here in search of settings means you probably care about an acurate picture. At the very least I would encourage anyone here to take a little time and learn how to use a basic calibration disc. AVSHD 709 is free, comes with directions, and can get a lot done without the use of a meter.
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2194 of 3305 Old 02-09-2012, 02:10 PM
Member
 
alxrmero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

That was just a warning that there is a chance that none of the settings posted here will be appropriate for your TV. We're not really suggesting you pay to have it calibrated, but you can DIY for under $100. The fact you came here in search of settings means you probably care about an acurate picture. At the very least I would encourage anyone here to take a little time and learn how to use a basic calibration disc. AVSHD 709 is free, comes with directions, and can get a lot done without the use of a meter.

K thank you
alxrmero is offline  
post #2195 of 3305 Old 02-09-2012, 02:16 PM
Newbie
 
Captainfiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi! I'm new here, but I've read your posts about the Samsung Plasma TV and found them very interesting. Being in the show business and working everyday with professional big screen projectors gives me quite some experience in calibrating. But as everyone knows, the best calibration is the one that looks good to your eye... I recently purchased a PSD64D8000 in Europe and the calibration settings differ slightly there because of the HD/PAL set-up (colors are already warmer, and the reds are pretty accurate). I am amazed each time I look at my TV, as the natural colors coming out of it are very accurate. But one thing I am disappointed with is the 3D engine: I find the 3D effects are very nice, but too subtle to my taste. If you want to have in-your-face 3D effects, good luck. Does anyone here know if it is possible to tweak the 3D engine (other than the standard settings offered by Samsung, which in my opinion are not so effective), like for example, if you want to tweak the 3D effect in the NVidia 3D engine, you can do whatever you want. Is it possible to tweak the 3D engine of the PS64D TV? Thanks.
Captainfiz is offline  
post #2196 of 3305 Old 02-09-2012, 03:54 PM
Newbie
 
xinul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hi all

i got an UN46D8000yf-xza and i was wondering if i'm doing something wrong because the Auto Motion Plus really sucks for me, i'm using the Dinamic Picture preset and the following settings for AMP, personal (blur=10;vibr=3) then personal (blur=10;vibr=7) and then the default personal (blur=5;vibr=5), also tried with each of the other presets of AMP, but each of these generates artifacts on the image, please watch the video to see what exactly i mean, look at the green/lightblue tab at the end of the video, appear overlap to each other.

video: mediafire.com/?6ds3gcbcns682d5

i'm stuck with this, i need some advices to improve this behavior if possible.

thanks in advance.
xinul is offline  
post #2197 of 3305 Old 02-09-2012, 07:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LarryInRI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: in RI
Posts: 5,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 146
xinul,

The only advice that I can offer is to ask for help about your problem in the LCD forum. This forum is devoted to plasma TVs.

Larry
LarryInRI is offline  
post #2198 of 3305 Old 02-09-2012, 07:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Rob67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Boston, MI
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by xinul View Post

hi all

i got an UN46D8000yf-xza and i was wondering if i'm doing something wrong because the Auto Motion Plus really sucks for me, i'm using the Dinamic Picture preset and the following settings for AMP, personal (blur=10;vibr=3) then personal (blur=10;vibr=7) and then the default personal (blur=5;vibr=5), also tried with each of the other presets of AMP, but each of these generates artifacts on the image, please watch the video to see what exactly i mean, look at the green/lightblue tab at the end of the video, appear overlap to each other.

video: mediafire.com/?6ds3gcbcns682d5

i'm stuck with this, i need some advices to improve this behavior if possible.

thanks in advance.

Are you sure you are in the right forum? We are discussing the 2011 D7000 and D8000 plasma line from Samsung. Not LEDs.
Rob67 is offline  
post #2199 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 07:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Will see what a few downward clicks in sub-contrast does.

Seems reducing sub-contrast (tried a few values, as low as 112) has no effect on the pinking, so back to 128 it goes.

Let me just make sure I'm correctly diagnosing "pinking". What I am seeing (in move and cal modes) is a pink hue in the flashing bars on the AVSHD 709 white clipping pattern (and APL). Reducing the contrast to 80 resolves this. I have not been able to see pinking during normal viewing, but before the repair I certainly never found a hint of it in any test pattern.

My first experiment with reducing SM red gain does stop this pinking, but I need to drop it to at least 114 for it to really help. At 114, I can use contrast up to 90ish, and a rough grayscale cal is looking better, but I still need to push green gain up into the 40s and red down to 10.

I wonder if that's good enough, or is it ok to keep going below 114 in the SM?

My only other concern is some diffuse pink blotches in the screen (especially the right side of the white clipping pattern, where its brightest). Not sure if that's a uniformity issue that I'm just now noticing, or if it was always there (don't think it was). Again, this is not something that seems to be a problem with normal viewing. Found a few TV commercials with lots of mostly empty bright white screens (I assume they're not as bright as the test pattern), and everything looks perfectly uniform.
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2200 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 08:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,442
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 309
Why don't you set contrast just below clipping and then adjust cell light to desired peak white? This is what I do and have no problem getting >45ftL (not that I use it). Clipping is a sign you have hit the limits of the display and changing the ADC calibration just changes where that occurs on the contrast scale. Does pinking start when you can still see the 255 bar or at a lower level?
zoyd is online now  
post #2201 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 09:19 AM
Newbie
 
break80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Think I'll go with the 51D8000..my old Sony from 9 years finally bit the big one. I have quite a bit of ambient light in the room this will go in and am stoked that I found this thread to do the calibration .

BB has a sale going on and I wanted to be able to make sure I can get the best build date and most up to date firmware. What should I be looking for?

Also, I scrolled thru most of this thread and I am a complete amateur, but wanted to ask if there was anything unique to calibrating at a higher altitude. my home is at ~6,000' in Colorado. thx
break80 is offline  
post #2202 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 09:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Last night, after setting red gain to 114, I reduced contrast to a bit below where pinking would start (maybe 85ish). With cell at 20 and brightness set using the APL clipping pattern, my peak white was about 34ftL, so not sure I can get much more out of it. I don't think I was quite getting the higher bars to flash on the white clipping pattern, but I'd have to check again. My guess is maybe 250 and below were flashing.

I'm still wrestling with this odd (related?) red gain problem even with contrast well below pinking level, I have to drop red gain dramatically (actually, green nearly max and red nearly zero). So, I'm finding lowering the red gain setting in ADC/WB is getting me back in the ballpark (so I dont push the regular menu settings so hard), but I still would like it lower.
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2203 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 09:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,442
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 309
ok yes, I had the red gain problem too - I fixed it by setting all WB controls to 128 and doing an adc calibration in movie mode
zoyd is online now  
post #2204 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 09:42 AM
Newbie
 
break80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by break80 View Post

Think I'll go with the 51D8000..my old Sony from 9 years finally bit the big one. I have quite a bit of ambient light in the room this will go in and am stoked that I found this thread to do the calibration .

BB has a sale going on and I wanted to be able to make sure I can get the best build date and most up to date firmware. What should I be looking for?

Also, I scrolled thru most of this thread and I am a complete amateur, but wanted to ask if there was anything unique to calibrating at a higher altitude. my home is at ~6,000' in Colorado. thx

One more thing, I do love to watch sports and I did notice that Larry seems to not miss the Red Sox games at all ( I won't hate on the sox here). Is the 51d8000 going to to have anything noticeable to the average viewer, i.e no high av iq here. I just know when I see great pq
break80 is offline  
post #2205 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 09:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Yeah, I have tried the ADC calibration (using Janos' 1-235 pattern), but only via HDMI. I used the below procedure, but no improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Yes, HDMI1. Ok, will check my computer specs...

So, for each calibration I first manually set to 131/71, then displayed the image via USB from the Oppo. Here are the results for each color space mode:

Auto = 130/73
RGB PC Level = 131/71
RGB Video Level = 76/121 (looks the same as the computer connected via HDMI)
4:4:4 = 130/73
4:2:2 = 130/73

So, it seems like the RGB PC Level might be outputting a standard, full range PC signal. When fed this signal, the ADC calibration completes in under 2 seconds, and makes no changes to the default values I already entered (131/71).

I assume my computer is detecting a TV display and deciding to feed it a video level signal. I believe the Oppo "RGB" modes are standard:
Video Level = 16-235
PC Level = 1-255

Anyway, if I go back to movie or cal-night after this calibration, I still get pinking above 80 contrast. Guess now it's time to play with the red gain in the SM.

AvidHiker is offline  
post #2206 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 09:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by break80 View Post

One more thing, I do love to watch sports and I did notice that Larry seems to not miss the Red Sox games at all ( I won't hate on the sox here). Is the 51d8000 going to to have anything noticeable to the average viewer, i.e no high av iq here. I just know when I see great pq

Hey break, no offense, but I think your questions are more appropriate for the D8000 thread. If you are looking to get a particular person's attention, maybe just try a PM.
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2207 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 09:59 AM
Newbie
 
break80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
sorry about that. This thread was pretty interesting with all the calibration talk, but I'll check out the d8000 thread.thx
break80 is offline  
post #2208 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 10:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,442
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 309
avidhiker: I've got a different procedure I will upload later that you can try. Also, measure peak white with the small APL pattern, you should see up to 55 ftL
zoyd is online now  
post #2209 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 10:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

ok yes, I had the red gain problem too - I fixed it by setting all WB controls to 128 and doing an adc calibration in movie mode

Is there any relatively simply way to calibrate a specific mode when displaying the calibration pattern by HDMI? Seems the normal way of entering the SM defaults to a mode other than movie or cal.

I know, I'm out of my league here.
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2210 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 10:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

avidhiker: I've got a different procedure I will upload later that you can try. Also, measure peak white with the small APL pattern, you should see up to 55 ftL

Very cool, much appreciated!
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2211 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 04:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,442
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 309
The ADC calibration aligns the 8-bit video input with the 10-bit display processor. The levels you use during calibration get mapped to DSP level 4 (black) and DSP level 940 (white). Since the DSP is 10-bit it has 1024 levels so you want to map input level 235 to DSP level 940 if you want to preserve all the codes between 235-255 (Superwhite). This will map input level 255 to (approximately) contrast level 100 so you shouldn't see any clipping ("pinking") until you get near 100 contrast. Personally I like to calibrate such that video level 235 gets mapped closer to the upper end of the 10-bit scale to provide more codes (less banding). You can burn this iso to DVD and use one of the three patterns on it to calibrate your ADC.

- Use your DVD player in YCbCr mode attached to HDMI1, you can have brightness and contrast set anywhere but I suggest 50,95 (cell light doesn't matter). Using YCbCr mode will ensure that the input is correct even if you end up using RGB input.

- I don't know if it matters whether you use dynamic or movie mode (I use movie mode) so you might want to test both. Since the SM defaults to dynamic mode you have to use the emulator to unlock the SCC menu and change from dynamic to movie.

- Play the pattern you want (upscaled to 720p or 1080p) and navigate to ADC/WB in the SM, select ADC calibration and then select HDMI. If it fails do it again until it succeeds.


Patterns on the disk

1. 16-220 (will clip values above 225 at contrast ~95)

2. 16-235 (will clip values above 238 at contrast ~95)

3. 16-245 (will clip values above 247 at contrast ~95)

4. 16-255 (nominal case, should not clip 255 at contrast ~95)

5. This is a 1% full white (235) pattern for testing peak white luminance.
zoyd is online now  
post #2212 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 04:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Thanks, zoyd!

I figured the emulator would be involved. I have no experience with it (my 1014.6 install actually worked), so any tips would be appreciated. I assume your FBr procedure will get me what I need:

9. Start ruSamsungTVCommunicator, it should automatically find your TV and display a box with several tabs.
10. Open the Fernbedienung tab
11. On the emulator, hit the Info button and then the Factory button to get into the Service Menu

From an old post in this thread, it sounds like I won't be able to do anything with CAL-DAY or NIGHT modes (for which you used RS-232), correct?
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2213 of 3305 Old 02-10-2012, 04:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,442
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 309
yes, that will get you into the SM and show the SCC menu. Movie mode ADC cal will work fine for Cal-Day and Cal-Night.
zoyd is online now  
post #2214 of 3305 Old 02-11-2012, 12:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Ok, I've followed your directions and gotten an unusual L/H result of 77/94. Same result for movie or dynamic. Movie mode is still very red.

All my WB values are at 128, except I see these gains and offsets are now displayed for movie mode:

Movie R-Offset = 125
Movie B-Offset = 130
Movie R-Gain = 144
Movie B-Gain = 93

I can select them, but it does not let me adjust these values. Seems like a lot of red gain there, is this normal?
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2215 of 3305 Old 02-11-2012, 01:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,442
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 309
My values for WB Movie are:
R-offset 127
B-offset 134
R-gain 139
B-gain 89

So yours don't look too unusual.

Your ADC result for the L values is weird though, it looks like the black level of the patterns I made is not correct, probably a 0 vs. 16 problem. I would set those back to 130 until I fix the patterns.
zoyd is online now  
post #2216 of 3305 Old 02-11-2012, 02:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Interesting, I used your 16-235 pattern btw. So where is my red gain coming from I wonder...

Thanks, will put L back to 130 for now. Now that I'm a little more familiar with these patterns and how they work, I could probably manage to make my own with Photoshop. Of course, if you're up to it, I'd be happy to try yours.
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2217 of 3305 Old 02-11-2012, 02:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
FYI, here is a screen grab of my default movie mode grayscale before (dashed) and after main board swap. Red is particularly bad, but blue and green are in rough shape as well.
LL
AvidHiker is offline  
post #2218 of 3305 Old 02-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Senior Member
 
raehza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm trying to Calibrate it with the Spears and Munsil Disc.

Every setting so far worked perfectly and I have been readin how to do it on their website and cnet published their Calibration settings online. My issue is that in the "Contrast" and "Clipping" options on the Spears and Munsil disc, I seem to have too much "white".

Example, on the Contrast option, the bottom ramps should all be seen but I can only see 3 of the white ramps on the bottom left.

In the "Clipping" option I have all 3 RGB colors set, but my white part on the top left is a solid white. No change of contrast or brightness has helped me in any way.


Any advice?


Thanks,

Ray

Projector: AE7000
Screen: 5x12 Wilson Art Laminate Designer White
Receiver: Denon 2112Ci
Fronts: DefTech 8020ST
Center: DefTech 8040HD
Side Surround: DefTech SR 8040 BPs
Rear Surround: DefTech PM 1000s
Subwoofers: 2x HSU VTF 15H's
raehza is offline  
post #2219 of 3305 Old 02-12-2012, 01:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Planet Dog
Posts: 4,442
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Interesting, I used your 16-235 pattern btw. So where is my red gain coming from I wonder...

Thanks, will put L back to 130 for now. Now that I'm a little more familiar with these patterns and how they work, I could probably manage to make my own with Photoshop. Of course, if you're up to it, I'd be happy to try yours.

I fixed up the disk so you won't have that black level setting problem. Also figured out that iDVD won't let me author white values greater than 235. The 255 pattern on the disk is the one you want to use if you want no clipping up to that code.
zoyd is online now  
post #2220 of 3305 Old 02-12-2012, 06:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AvidHiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Nice! I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the help, man.

For whomever would like to comment (assuming this does not set me straight)... any thoughts about how to best address my red gain problem or how to handle it with Samsung support would be appreciated. Guess I worry they'll just muck things up worse with further repair, and a replacement just feels like another roll of the dice to me.

If I was competent enough to use the TDM, I gather my situation might be managable. As much as I would like to advance my capabilities, I just don't see that happening.
AvidHiker is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Samsung Bd D7000 3d Blu Ray Disc Player Silver , Samsung Pn51d8000 51 Inch 1080p 3d Ready Plasma Hdtv 2011 Model , Samsung Pn51d7000 51 Inch 1080p 600 Hz 3d Plasma Hdtv Black , Plasma Hdtv , Displays
Gear in this thread - Pn51d8000 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off