Antiglare / Antireflective coating peeling on new Samsung plasma? - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Antiglare / Antireflective coating peeling on new Samsung plasma?
Techlord's Avatar Techlord 03:44 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

Debating numbers is fruitless. One's person's guess is no better than anyone elses.

One thing we do know is that manufacturer C/S reps claim ignorance of any problem being common. If the C/S is offshore, you just get script reading, where they are likely to have you unplug the set to try to solve any problem.

One thing is clear, Samsung has found out the challenges inherent in making the slimmest sets on the plasma market. There problems with internal cracks on the screen, and the peeling of the coating both seem to be related to the heat generated by the operation of the set. The slimness of the cabinet just may have an impact on how heat gets released from the set - and it looks like it does not do this job without causing some damage. I believe the effected panels should be on a not recommended list of sets worth considering for purchase!

The old adage of "buyer beware" applies here. Certainly those reading this forum are fully aware of the risks of buying one of these D model sets - especially the higher end models.

You make an interesting point that the heat generated from within the ultra thin panel might be one of the things causing the peeling around the top of the set, the weakest bond would naturally be the upper corners. This "might" be a design flaw from which there is no solution other than redesign.

jmpage2's Avatar jmpage2 03:49 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techlord View Post

You make an interesting point that the heat generated from within the ultra thin panel might be one of the things causing the peeling around the top of the set, the weakest bond would naturally be the upper corners. This "might" be a design flaw from which there is no solution other than redesign.

I highly doubt that, if there was a fundamental design flaw then all of the panels would be peeling, but the overwhelming majority do not.
rogo's Avatar rogo 05:02 PM 07-01-2011
@Larry, that's why I drew a distinction between signature lines and signed posts.

@jmpage, the Samsung is unusually thin for a plasma. And since plasmas run somewhat hotter than LCDs and it's a new design, it's possible they blew some thermal calculation somewhere and allowed the heat to build up in an unfavorable way. Certainly blistering is consistent with too much heat. I'm not saying that's what's happening but it's consistent.
koffas's Avatar koffas 05:13 PM 07-01-2011
The 2010 C-series PDPs were 0.1" thinner, with no reports of the C8000's RBF peeling. If anything, my D7000 puts out less heat than the C7000 it replaced. It is manufacturing / QC issue, not an inherent design flaw.
Risingson1's Avatar Risingson1 05:47 PM 07-01-2011
I don't know what the consensus is as far as how hot these tvs get, but i can tell you mine gets very hot and buzzes pretty loudly. It's going back for an exchange, so we'll see how the new one fairs. At this point i'm not very optimistic...

Someone should create a poll asking if you have a peeler, does your tv run hot? If yours does not peel, does it ever get hot?

As far as plasmas and heat are concerned I have a Panny PZ85U and although it never had any problems warming up my small bedroom, it never felt hot to the touch when i inspected it and doesn't buzz at all.
agogley's Avatar agogley 05:55 PM 07-01-2011
I got a voicemail message from the tech stating that they are going to order a part for my TV based on the description of the problem that Samsung sent them.

I was scratching my head, because what part did they order? I called back and left a VM (after hours when I called) to ask what part they think they need to order. They said it would take a week to get this part. I'm very curious as to what they know or think they know about the problem.

P.S. All of the service people I talked to from Samsung reps to my "personal service advocate" have been in the United States. None of them read off a script. Except for the fact that they had never heard of the problem and therefore, had to warn me that they don't cover physical damage, their customer service has been quite helpful.
agogley's Avatar agogley 05:58 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techlord View Post

You make an interesting point that the heat generated from within the ultra thin panel might be one of the things causing the peeling around the top of the set, the weakest bond would naturally be the upper corners. This "might" be a design flaw from which there is no solution other than redesign.

Not even the majority of owners surveyed in this poll have the problem so it seems unlikley that it's a huge design flaw. Also, they had a thin plasma last year and this isn't that different from last year's model.
rogo's Avatar rogo 08:07 PM 07-01-2011
I'm glad you've all ruled out the possibility of a design flaw. I'm not saying there *is* one, but the notion there can't be one is wrong. Just because it's similar to last year's design or some other model doesn't mean they couldn't have screwed up in this particular design and caused a thermal venting issue that leads to this.

Of course, it could also be a problem with the filter application method, adhesion, etc.
RandomName7's Avatar RandomName7 09:05 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
I'm glad you've all ruled out the possibility of a design flaw. I'm not saying there *is* one, but the notion there can't be one is wrong. Just because it's similar to last year's design or some other model doesn't mean they couldn't have screwed up in this particular design and caused a thermal venting issue that leads to this.

Of course, it could also be a problem with the filter application method, adhesion, etc.
Highly unlikely seeing as how the entire back along the top is vented...

My tvs been on for about 90 minutes straight atm, and i just checked and there are a few sections that are barely warm to the touch, but for the most part, the TV is cool to the touch...

I'm wondering if there's some sort of manufacturing flaw causing some of them to overheat, bad solder or fans or something.
JimP 09:28 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomName7 View Post
Highly unlikely seeing as how the entire back along the top is vented...

My tvs been on for about 90 minutes straight atm, and i just checked and there are a few sections that are barely warm to the touch, but for the most part, the TV is cool to the touch...

I'm wondering if there's some sort of manufacturing flaw causing some of them to overheat, bad solder or fans or something.
....and I bet yours hasn't peeled? Has it?

Someone with a peeler commented that the top of theirs was very hot.

What model is yours and approximately how many hours has yours been on?
RandomName7's Avatar RandomName7 09:44 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
....and I bet yours hasn't peeled? Has it?

Someone with a peeler commented that the top of theirs was very hot.

What model is yours and approximately how many hours has yours been on?
Well I'm still holding my breath, I just got mine today lol...

but it's been on most of the day so far...

it's a May 2011 PN59D7000

It has the little spot things in all 4 corners, but I don't think it's actually peeling, from what I can tell that's where all the light sensors are.
JimP 09:46 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
Not even the majority of owners surveyed in this poll have the problem so it seems unlikley that it's a huge design flaw. Also, they had a thin plasma last year and this isn't that different from last year's model.
Not exactly. A March set stood a pretty good chance of not peeling. April was about even. May, well twice as many peelers than non peelers.

Even if the poll was off a bit, which lets assume, it isn't going to off so much that the May numbers will become acceptable.
agogley's Avatar agogley 09:49 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
I'm glad you've all ruled out the possibility of a design flaw. I'm not saying there *is* one, but the notion there can't be one is wrong. Just because it's similar to last year's design or some other model doesn't mean they couldn't have screwed up in this particular design and caused a thermal venting issue that leads to this.

Of course, it could also be a problem with the filter application method, adhesion, etc.
I'm not an engineer so I can't rule it out. But it seems to me, logically, that if it were a design flaw, all screens would eventually see the problem.
JimP 09:51 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomName7 View Post
Well I'm still holding my breath, I just got mine today lol...

but it's been on most of the day so far...

it's a May 2011 PN59D7000

It has the little spot things in all 4 corners, but I don't think it's actually peeling, from what I can tell that's where all the light sensors are.
Do let us know if anything happens.

It would be interesting to find out if the heat buildup at the top is related to the peeling. Yours isn't all that hot and it hasn't started peeling. We have our fingers crossed that it won't start.
agogley's Avatar agogley 09:52 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Not exactly. A March set stood a pretty good chance of not peeling. April was about even. May, well twice as many peelers than non peelers.

Even if the poll was off a bit, which lets assume, it isn't going to off so much that the May numbers will become acceptable.
yeah, I'm just saying that the overall percentage of people who have peelers to not is less than 50% or so. (I didn't run the numbers). I was thinking that if it were a design flaw, the numbers would be much higher.

There also seems to be credible reports of no peeling at BB stores which would be the most like to have the problems, don't you think.

Obviously something is wrong and we're just guessing as to the possible cause. Personally, I'm hoping it's a strange anomoly that wont affect me when I get a second set.
JimP 09:54 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
I'm not an engineer so I can't rule it out. But it seems to me, logically, that if it were a design flaw, all screens would eventually see the problem.
I'm betting its something to do with the power board. I usually guess wrong so don't take this as any kind of valid information.
agogley's Avatar agogley 09:55 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
I'm betting its something to do with the power board. I usually guess wrong so don't take this as any kind of valid information.
explain.
agogley's Avatar agogley 10:06 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Power supplies get hot and some get a lot hotter than others. If the difference between the peelers and non peelers turns out to be heat related which is a real possibility, I'm speculating it has something to do with the power supply. Then again, I'm usually way off.
It's good to know though. If my tech replacing the panel and it peels again then it would be good to suggest the power supply.
JimP 10:06 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
explain.
Power boards get hot and if the peeling is due to heat, then that would be the first place I'd look.
spoons's Avatar spoons 10:24 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Power boards get hot and if the peeling is due to heat, then that would be the first place I'd look.
That makes sense. However, can the D7000/D8000 owners verify that there are fans in the back of the panel? I know the GT30/VT30 have 4 fans that are easily visible. I wonder if the lack of fans/cooling compounds the heat issue.
rogo's Avatar rogo 10:39 PM 07-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
I'm not an engineer so I can't rule it out. But it seems to me, logically, that if it were a design flaw, all screens would eventually see the problem.
Again, I'm not saying it's a design flaw. But, no, it's not correct to say that if it were that all screens would eventually see the problem. A design flaw could easily lead to a greater likelihood of problems without causing a certainty of problems. This is common in automobiles where, for example, 1980s Jaguars are "likely to develop exhaust system problems due to flaws with the drainage of the chassis".

(That was an example meant to illustrate the point. In that example, not every Jaguar would have a problem even though the car was designed in such a way that problems were more likely than average.)
agogley's Avatar agogley 10:44 PM 07-01-2011
We'll just have to wait to see. I'm hoping mine gets fixed.
agogley's Avatar agogley 11:04 PM 07-01-2011
I had my set on for a few hours tonight and checked the heat. It was very hot at the top. That being said, it was hottest on the back in the middle and cool on the corners. Where mine is peeling is a couple inches in from the corner but it isn't the hottest part or even terribly hot at that particular point.

And again, the corners were cool and that is where a lot of the peeling has been occuring on other people's sets.
Carl Lee's Avatar Carl Lee 07:36 AM 07-02-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

I had my set on for a few hours tonight and checked the heat. It was very hot at the top. That being said, it was hottest on the back in the middle and cool on the corners. Where mine is peeling is a couple inches in from the corner but it isn't the hottest part or even terribly hot at that particular point.

And again, the corners were cool and that is where a lot of the peeling has been occuring on other people's sets.

Same here. The middle top is hot, but the corners were cool and I have peeling in the top right.
aflc's Avatar aflc 08:06 AM 07-02-2011
Just rechecked my corners.
Mine has the dots on the right lower corner too. But can't see any on the left side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomName7 View Post

...
it's a May 2011 PN59D7000

It has the little spot things in all 4 corners, but I don't think it's actually peeling, from what I can tell that's where all the light sensors are.


rdiz92's Avatar rdiz92 08:34 AM 07-02-2011
I received my 59D7000 with a May build date from amazon yesterday. I've had it on for about 8 hours and so far no dots or peeling. Unfortunately, I didn't notice a three inch dent in the back center of the tv upon delivery. I'm concerned that it may lead to an issue some time in the future, so I'm going to exchange it for another. The picture quality is fantastic on this tv, better than the gt30 I returned and had before this one. Hope I'm making the right decision to exchange it, even though it works great.
RobZ's Avatar RobZ 08:39 AM 07-02-2011
I decided to unbox my newly arrived May build 64d7000 instead of just returning it. This will be wall mounted but for now I am just going to run it for a few days first to see if there is any bubbling or peeling. I placed its back as close to the wall as possible to simulate wall mounting (limited due to the stand). Anyone have a suggestion as to what I should run? I was thinking of just running it at 50% contrast and cell light 20 without any signal (just noise) but I am not sure if it is recommended to run something else to avoid burn in, etc. during the initial hours.
spdntrxi's Avatar spdntrxi 08:43 AM 07-02-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZ View Post

I decided to unbox my newly arrived May build 64d7000 instead of just returning it. This will be wall mounted but for now I am just going to run it for a few days first to see if there is any bubbling or peeling. Anyone have a suggestion as to what I should run? I was thinking of just running it at 50% contrast and cell light 20 without any signal (just noise) but I am not sure if it is recommended to run something else to avoid burn in, etc. during the initial hours.

sounds good... just enjoy it. If you dont use it.....well it wont peel, so get that sucker going and watch it alot. Mine gets delivered today hopefully and peel or not, I'm going to put some hours on it and deal with my retailer when and if it happens.
RobZ's Avatar RobZ 08:52 AM 07-02-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post

sounds good... just enjoy it. If you dont use it.....well it wont peel, so get that sucker going and watch it alot. Mine gets delivered today hopefully and peel or not, I'm going to put some hours on it and deal with my retailer when and if it happens.

I was going to just send it back and avoid having to deal with it because I'm leaving on vacation in a few days and will have lest time to run it during Amazons 30 day period. I will be able to run it non-stop this weekend but I'm not pulling my Panasonic off of the wall until I know this one is staying (fingers crossed). I have last years 63 in. in my other room and love it. I was debating between this, a Panasonic, or the new 70 in Sharp.
Micker's Avatar Micker 10:43 AM 07-02-2011
It's possibly a problem with a certain batch of adhesive they used or some moisture/air getting in during the application of the RBF.
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