Panasonic ST30 DIY Calibration and Settings Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1414 Old 02-14-2012, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gremmy View Post


It is interesting to note that your 65ST30 appears to be significantly brighter than my 60ST30.

I can't get above 41 ft.L on Mid Panel brightness, whereas you have 49.

And on Low, I can't get above 23 ftL.

In both cases, this is with contrast driven to 100, which results in a higher relative green brightness than I would like.

I notice on my set that there appear to be hard limitations on what contrast can accomplish based upon the panel brightness. For example, in MID, the contrast stops increasing brightness when the settings gets up to around 85 (86 to 100 don't change anything).

And, I suspect your larger ST's are brighter than my smaller 42" ST. My Avia calibration disc and PQ preference ( I agree that Mid/graphics/warm1 works best) always lead me to different settings than the calibrated settings widely reported here and other forums. As you said, it is pure folly to use other's setting. For example, my 42" can not tolerate a brightness setting of less than 59 which corresponds nicely with a higher contrast setting (not over 80 though) than offered in the "ST Settings" thread. My color saturation is also more accurate at a higher setting than most reported. Tint stays accurate at "0" to -2. The Avia calibration does not show any change in sharpness so I keep it at 0. The set is bright enough but not what you guys see. Darker than my D-Nice calibrated "night" 58VT25.
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post #452 of 1414 Old 02-14-2012, 08:39 AM
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Yes, the ST30s are all over the place in terms of sizes when it comes to MLL, overall color accuracy, and brightness (and who knows what else?). I think this has led to a lot of confusion and a little controversy especially when people make comparisons/recommendations between an ST30 and another brand.

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post #453 of 1414 Old 02-15-2012, 04:10 AM
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I've been going round and round trying to decide between the 65" ST (or GT), and the 70" Sharp 632/732.
I've watched both in Best Buy several times, albeit only on their closed loop that they feed to every TV.

They both look good to me in that limiting viewing environment . I wanted to like the Panasonic more, because I know it "should" have a better picture. And it did seem to be more involving and have a bit more depth and clarity than the Sharp on some programming, and it should also be better on sports motion, although I couldn't tell a difference on that limited test material.

The one area where I liked the Sharp much better is when watching hockey or other snow sports.
When that automatic ABL circuit kicks in on a mostly white screen, it really dulls/greys out the Panny's picture to the point where I don't like it at all. I watch a LOT of hockey, so a TV it has to look great for this sport. It was already on mid panel brightness,

Is there anything that can be done to adjust the ABL circuit to reduce its affect on the whites? Perhaps on the service menu? Would doing so potentially cause any other problems for the TV?
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post #454 of 1414 Old 02-15-2012, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

The good news is that, like I've said, the MID panel brightness setting appears to work just as well as the LOW panel setting, provided you use GRAPHIC mode (at least, insofar as the parameters I am able to measure with my colorimeter).

Thank you. Now using mid w/graphics and warm1. Finally have the PQ I was expecting. Graphics mode seems to tame most of the overblown color issues on mid and looks much more natural than off or auto.
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post #455 of 1414 Old 02-15-2012, 06:55 AM
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Just out of curiosity has anyone found a reliable way to calibrate the Web Streaming application INPUT (for lack of a better term) with an actual meter and test patterns?

I'd like to be able to measure it, but I think I'd have to stream the test patterns and then there's no way to know if the content held its accuracy during the streaming process.... seems kind of like a mess.
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post #456 of 1414 Old 02-15-2012, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_K View Post

I've been going round and round trying to decide between the 65" ST (or GT), and the 70" Sharp 632/732.
I've watched both in Best Buy several times, albeit only on their closed loop that they feed to every TV.

They both look good to me in that limiting viewing environment . I wanted to like the Panasonic more, because I know it "should" have a better picture. And it did seem to be more involving and have a bit more depth and clarity than the Sharp on some programming, and it should also be better on sports motion, although I couldn't tell a difference on that limited test material.

The one area where I liked the Sharp much better is when watching hockey or other snow sports.
When that automatic ABL circuit kicks in on a mostly white screen, it really dulls/greys out the Panny's picture to the point where I don't like it at all. I watch a LOT of hockey, so a TV it has to look great for this sport. It was already on mid panel brightness,

Is there anything that can be done to adjust the ABL circuit to reduce its affect on the whites? Perhaps on the service menu? Would doing so potentially cause any other problems for the TV?

Someone else I know prefered the Sharp 632 over an ST30 because of the lack of ABL. There is nothing that can be done with this. I don't really notice the effect too much on my ST30 or at least enough to be bothered by it. I can sense it at times as I am coming from an SXRD that didn't have that, but for me it's a non issue. Hockey looks quite good on the ST30 IMO and the whites are solid (proper grayscale calibration makes a huge difference here). Keep in mind, of course, a hockey ice isn't necessarily pure white either.

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post #457 of 1414 Old 02-15-2012, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

Curious which meter and software are you using?

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Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

A brand new eye one display using Color hcfr software.

Thanks... after reading multiple sources, I placed an order for the i1Display Pro and downloaded ColorHCFR. From what I read, I have to select the Eye One Pro in ColorHCFR since there isn't an option for our meter. I've been reading a number of sites but wondered if you had any suggestions on the best sources to read with that combination.
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post #458 of 1414 Old 02-15-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post


Someone else I know prefered the Sharp 632 over an ST30 because of the lack of ABL. There is nothing that can be done with this. I don't really notice the effect too much on my ST30 or at least enough to be bothered by it. I can sense it at times as I am coming from an SXRD that didn't have that, but for me it's a non issue. Hockey looks quite good on the ST30 IMO and the whites are solid (proper grayscale calibration makes a huge difference here). Keep in mind, of course, a hockey ice isn't necessarily pure white either.

Excuse me for my ignorance but what is ABL? Thanks.
Edit: Never mind. Automatic Brightness Limiter.
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post #459 of 1414 Old 02-16-2012, 01:25 PM
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I read several reviews and bought my first plasma (65ST30) and ran the 100 hr slides to make sure it's prepared for calibration. However I feel myself good on the PQ but still think it's not that bright compared to my samsung lcd. The bluray blows away in terms of PQ but the standard def and HD still does not look that great. Any advice... my wife asks me to return this and get the Sharp LCD, i am not convinced that lcd is better than plasma.
any suggestions on how to improve the brightness without affecting the PQ
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post #460 of 1414 Old 02-16-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ram48335 View Post

I read several reviews and bought my first plasma (65ST30) and ran the 100 hr slides to make sure it's prepared for calibration. However I feel myself good on the PQ but still think it's not that bright compared to my samsung lcd. The bluray blows away in terms of PQ but the standard def and HD still does not look that great. Any advice... my wife asks me to return this and get the Sharp LCD, i am not convinced that lcd is better than plasma.
any suggestions on how to improve the brightness without affecting the PQ

Put the picture mode on custom. Go into the pro settings and set panel brightness to mid. Make sure the gamma is on 2.2. Set AGC and Black Extension to zero. Raise contrast to somewhere in the 70 to 80 range. Get a test pattern disc and use it to set your brightness correctly. With your panel on mid brightness, it's important to set your HDMI input content type to GRAPHICS if you want accurate color and gamma.

If your tv is too dim on low panel brightness (mine definitely was -- with ftL in the low 20s) then you should notice a substantial difference on mid.

Short of advising you to buy a colorimeter to set the grayscale correctly, that's about all I can recommend.
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post #461 of 1414 Old 02-16-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

Thanks... after reading multiple sources, I placed an order for the i1Display Pro and downloaded ColorHCFR. From what I read, I have to select the Eye One Pro in ColorHCFR since there isn't an option for our meter. I've been reading a number of sites but wondered if you had any suggestions on the best sources to read with that combination.

This will tell you everything you need to know: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
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post #462 of 1414 Old 02-16-2012, 06:01 PM
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Anyone been able to tame the "pink tint" Odd thing is, I did not have this problem until 2 nights ago when playing NHL 12. Suddenly it just crept up in the top left corner. Im lucky apparently as it is not "that" noticeable as other reports.

However I am concerned it will get worse. Right now it only creeps up on whites in the top left region about the size of the palm of my hand.

If you are lucky, the Pink won't get too much worse - although on our first 60" ST it grew Visibly Worse over the first 400 hours or so (unfortunately more than offsetting the improvement in the Green Blob on that panel).
The next 2 60" panels we had (one each S and ST) both CAME with so much PINK that we only kept each of them around a week...

Our current (and last: if this goes back, won't be replacing it with another) 60" ST sounds a lot like yours: Pink at the edges, only visible on certain content - including SOME hockey game shots.

Have not had this panel long enough to guess how it will trend, but "Brightening" the panel helps: Prefer the look of Cinema overall, but changing to "Game" helps mask Pink (and Green, for that matter). Could also try running Custom with Mid Brightness setting: this also tends to mask Pink & Green, and there have been a number of posts from owners who state they prefer the Custom/Mid settings over Cinema.

Also remember that hockey game broadcasts can be very difficult to use as a PQ reference: different cameras / angles, flash "bulbs" from the stands, and reflections off the ice surface all conspire to make "true" PQ hard to judge!

Good Luck!
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post #463 of 1414 Old 02-17-2012, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AAcesUp View Post

Anyone been able to tame the "pink tint" Odd thing is, I did not have this problem until 2 nights ago when playing NHL 12. Suddenly it just crept up in the top left corner. Im lucky apparently as it is not "that" noticeable as other reports.

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Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

Have not had this panel long enough to guess how it will trend, but "Brightening" the panel helps: Prefer the look of Cinema overall, but changing to "Game" helps mask Pink (and Green, for that matter). Could also try running Custom with Mid Brightness setting: this also tends to mask Pink & Green, and there have been a number of posts from owners who state they prefer the Custom/Mid settings over Cinema.

AAcesUp, if you're going to try Custom with Mid Brightness, you may also want to change Color Temp to Normal and HDMI Content Type to either Photo or Graphics (see which one you prefer).
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post #464 of 1414 Old 02-17-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

Put the picture mode on custom. Go into the pro settings and set panel brightness to mid. Make sure the gamma is on 2.2. Set AGC and Black Extension to zero. Raise contrast to somewhere in the 70 to 80 range. Get a test pattern disc and use it to set your brightness correctly. With your panel on mid brightness, it's important to set your HDMI input content type to GRAPHICS if you want accurate color and gamma.

If your tv is too dim on low panel brightness (mine definitely was -- with ftL in the low 20s) then you should notice a substantial difference on mid.

Short of advising you to buy a colorimeter to set the grayscale correctly, that's about all I can recommend.

Thanks a lot gremmy, it helped a lot but will continue to explore to bring the best out of this. I really love the panny.

thx
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post #465 of 1414 Old 02-17-2012, 05:00 PM
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I just found these settings at TV Tweak.com...a Drop dark but pretty good:
picture mode: cinema
temp: warm 2
Aspect ratio Full HD 1

Picture
Contrast 85
Brightness 54
Tint 0
Sharpness 30

Advance
Black nr off
mosquito off
motion smoother weak
Black level: Light
3;2 Auto
24 direct: 60HZ
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post #466 of 1414 Old 02-18-2012, 02:57 PM
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I am still experimenting with my 60ST30 to get a brighter image with MID/Warm1/Graphics combo but am having trouble getting the color right. Alas I do not have a meter yet and am trying out some discs/filters. Anybody else have any luck to show as a starting point?
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post #467 of 1414 Old 02-18-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk96 View Post


I've since backed the W/B High R and W/B Low R back a bit and am happy enough that I'm done for now until I get a pro calibration done.

How much did you back off those settings? I like your settings.

Russell
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post #468 of 1414 Old 02-18-2012, 10:11 PM
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I was hoping someone could do me a favour. Could you please take a photo (or record all the values, which is easiest) of the summary page of the service menu (ie the first page you see when you enter service mode)? I am specifically interested in the 3 option fields for the US ST30, but the whole thing would be great.

Thanks
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post #469 of 1414 Old 02-19-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascl View Post

I was hoping someone could do me a favour. Could you please take a photo (or record all the values, which is easiest) of the summary page of the service menu (ie the first page you see when you enter service mode)? I am specifically interested in the 3 option fields for the US ST30, but the whole thing would be great.

Thanks

I doubt this info will tell you anything, but I happen to have this shot from after my a-board upgrade on a P60ST30.
LL
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post #470 of 1414 Old 02-19-2012, 12:00 PM
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That's great, thank you! You are right, it doesn't tell me much... its missing some info I expected to see there! Mine (ST30A) has 3 option fields, with bit toggles.
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post #471 of 1414 Old 02-20-2012, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlh2173 View Post

Quote:
Quote:


Originally Posted by jk96

I've since backed the W/B High R and W/B Low R back a bit and am happy enough that I'm done for now until I get a pro calibration done.


How much did you back off those settings? I like your settings.

I've made the following tweaks from my original settings. Switched HDMI type to graphics. Moved High R and Low R to 0, bumped color to 47, color space to warm1 and am quite happy with the results.
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post #472 of 1414 Old 02-20-2012, 11:47 AM
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Just picked up the 42ST30 and was curious if anyone would mind PM'ing me the much talked about DNice settings? Thank you
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post #473 of 1414 Old 02-21-2012, 08:42 AM
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Did some more experimenting with various settings and found the following:

High Panel Brightness introduces SIGNIFICANT amounts of noise to the image, especially near black. I verified this by comparing near black test windows on the various panel brightness settings. There is very little difference between low and mid in this regard, but high is awful: the entire picture crawls.

On mid panel brightness, the amount of green push (green brightness relative to the other primaries) varies with the contrast settings. On my set (which will not be the same as yours) any contrast above 76 seems to achieve its additional brightness primarily by boosting green. On a set with a calibrated grayscale, the result is green flesh tones. Contrast must be backed off to compensate.

Also, keep in mind, on mid panel brightness, there is a governor on the contrast setting so that increases above 80 don't do anything at all. I imagine this is because going above 80 would seriously compromise the PQ.
You can raise the contast above 80, but luminance does not increase. It's smoke and mirrors.

I continue to be dissapointed by how dim this television is. Ideally, in a room with ambient light during the day, I'd like at least 35 ftL -- on my set, this simply is not achievable on mid panel brightness. Calibrated ft.L (including grayscale and green luminance adjustments) on each panel brightness mode are as follows:

1) Low = 19 ft. L (unwatchable during the day, especially on dim content)
2) Mid = 30 ft. L (approaching acceptable. I'd like another 5 ftL, but no dice).
3) High 40 ft. L (the compromises of high panel brightness are not worth the increase in luminance).

As noted previously in this thread, there appears to be extreme variation in the brightness of these sets. Some have been tested at much higher brightness levels than mine, and I suspect others still are dimmer, but I have no idea where my set lies on the Bell curve.
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post #474 of 1414 Old 02-21-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

As noted previously in this thread, there appears to be extreme variation in the brightness of these sets. Some have been tested at much higher brightness levels than mine, and I suspect others still are dimmer, but I have no idea where my set lies on the Bell curve.

Have you seen any fl measurements on other 60" ST30 models? I agree 30 fl is too dim with any light in the room.

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post #475 of 1414 Old 02-21-2012, 09:12 AM
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Has anyone had issues programming their cable remote to their ST30? I have Time Warner/Brighthouse cable and followed their instructions, but no luck programming the cable remote to control the volume or power. It will just allow me to change cable stations.

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post #476 of 1414 Old 02-21-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Has anyone had issues programming their cable remote to their ST30? I have Time Warner/Brighthouse cable and followed their instructions, but no luck programming the cable remote to control the volume or power. It will just allow me to change cable stations.

No seen problems with a Comcast remote David. I even tried my Harmony remote programmed for the VT25 and it worked as well.
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post #477 of 1414 Old 02-22-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

Did some more experimenting with various settings and found the following:

High Panel Brightness introduces SIGNIFICANT amounts of noise to the image, especially near black. I verified this by comparing near black test windows on the various panel brightness settings. There is very little difference between low and mid in this regard, but high is awful: the entire picture crawls.

On mid panel brightness, the amount of green push (green brightness relative to the other primaries) varies with the contrast settings. On my set (which will not be the same as yours) any contrast above 76 seems to achieve its additional brightness primarily by boosting green. On a set with a calibrated grayscale, the result is green flesh tones. Contrast must be backed off to compensate.

Also, keep in mind, on mid panel brightness, there is a governor on the contrast setting so that increases above 80 don't do anything at all. I imagine this is because going above 80 would seriously compromise the PQ.
You can raise the contast above 80, but luminance does not increase. It's smoke and mirrors.

I continue to be dissapointed by how dim this television is. Ideally, in a room with ambient light during the day, I'd like at least 35 ftL -- on my set, this simply is not achievable on mid panel brightness. Calibrated ft.L (including grayscale and green luminance adjustments) on each panel brightness mode are as follows:

1) Low = 19 ft. L (unwatchable during the day, especially on dim content)
2) Mid = 30 ft. L (approaching acceptable. I'd like another 5 ftL, but no dice).
3) High 40 ft. L (the compromises of high panel brightness are not worth the increase in luminance).

As noted previously in this thread, there appears to be extreme variation in the brightness of these sets. Some have been tested at much higher brightness levels than mine, and I suspect others still are dimmer, but I have no idea where my set lies on the Bell curve.

In some ways it makes sense there would be variations between identical sets, but not as much as I've read about on the ST30. So what's the reason? This is where I wish I had a service manual or something that explained all the adjustments available in the Service Menu and exactly what each one did. You would have to think when one set gets 30 ft. L, while anotherone gets 35 ft. L, there has to be a logical explanation and a way to at least partially correct it. Just curious if you've made any adjustments in the SM on your set.

BTW, I own a P60ST30, and a i1Display Pro is being delivered tomorrow, so I don't have a problem if you want to compare notes. But, I'm a newbie at this so I could end up being more of a pain than anything.
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post #478 of 1414 Old 02-22-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Have you seen any fl measurements on other 60" ST30 models? I agree 30 fl is too dim with any light in the room.

I don't know if I've seen fl measurements on 60" sets per se. My comments were based upon the ST30 line in general. There does seem to be variation between the models so it would be nice to know what other 60" owners are getting from their meters.
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post #479 of 1414 Old 02-22-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

In some ways it makes sense there would be variations between identical sets, but not as much as I've read about on the ST30. So what's the reason? This is where I wish I had a service manual or something that explained all the adjustments available in the Service Menu and exactly what each one did. You would have to think when one set gets 30 ft. L, while anotherone gets 35 ft. L, there has to be a logical explanation and a way to at least partially correct it. Just curious if you've made any adjustments in the SM on your set.

BTW, I own a P60ST30, and a i1Display Pro is being delivered tomorrow, so I don't have a problem if you want to compare notes. But, I'm a newbie at this so I could end up being more of a pain than anything.

A 5 ftL difference wouldn't be a big deal, but the difference between my set and david's on Mid Panel Brightness is 19 whopping ftL. That's huge.

In a previous post I misspoke when I said I could get up to 41 on Mid. The 41 ftL measurement was actually on HIGH. At the time, I was assuming that David's 49 ftL measurement was also on HIGH, but it turns out his measurement was on MID. So yeah, bottom line, on mid panel brightness, David's set is 19 ftL brightner than mine.

Don't worry about being a newb. Taking measurements with a meter and Color HCFR isn't hard, and if you can get people to leave you alone for a few hours, it's actually kind of fun.
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post #480 of 1414 Old 02-22-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jk96 View Post


I've made the following tweaks from my original settings. Switched HDMI type to graphics. Moved High R and Low R to 0, bumped color to 47, color space to warm1 and am quite happy with the results.

Cool, thanks.

Russell
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