Panasonic Vx300 to finally dethrone the mighty Kuro? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 02:28 PM
 
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Is a good tv based solely on black levels?
What about White levels? Could we start selling tvs solely on white levels?

Would LED LCD win a white level contest and be king? I know LCD's are able to achieve whiter whites than plasmas and still keep detail.

I am tired hearing about black levels!
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post #182 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmac31391 View Post
Is a good tv based solely on black levels?
Black Level is the baseline of video/film. If you do not understand that, everything else is irrelevant.

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What about White levels? Could we start selling tvs solely on white levels?
Brightness, not white level, is important for bright environments. It is also important for showrooms as people are attracted to bright shiny objects.

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Would LED LCD win a white level contest and be king?
LED LCDs can get brighter than plasmas. They are better for very bright rooms.

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I know LCD's are able to achieve whiter whites than plasmas and still keep detail.
White for HD and most everything else is x0.3127 y0.3290. No such thing as whiter that what is correct.

I am tired hearing about black levels![/quote]
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post #183 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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D-Nice, I would love to hear your expert opinion on this.

We all know right now that the Pioneer 500m is easily the best PDP made yet. Lets hypothetically say the Vx 300 reached .002 mll. Short of the 500m's .0005 mll.

If the Vx 300 hypothetically (a very BIG hypothetically...) beat the 500m in gamma, greyscale, motion resolution, color accuracy, color saturation, ansi contrast, reduced dithering, and processing.....would you consider the VX 300 superior to the 500m, even though the blacks arent 500m level? Would you use the VX 300 as your new reference if it hypothetically achieved all this?
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post #184 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 3reach
D-Nice, I would love to hear your expert opinion on this.

We all know right now that the Pioneer 500m is easily the best PDP made yet. Lets hypothetically say the Vx 300 reached .002 mll. Short of the 500m's .0005 mll.

If the Vx 300 hypothetically (a very BIG hypothetically...) beat the 500m in gamma, greyscale, motion resolution, color accuracy, color saturation, ansi contrast, reduced dithering, and processing.....would you consider the VX 300 superior to the 500m, even though the blacks arent 500m level? Would you use the VX 300 as your new reference if it hypothetically achieved all this?
No.
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post #185 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
No.
Ok. The Pio ECC 0 black,model was recently being looked at by a certain Panny employee a few months ago, which you already knew. Hopefully they can create a Panasonic that can do that, but stable. As always, they might take forever to do that. I hope all the experienced calibrators such as yourself keep putting a lot of pressure on them to create better displays
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post #186 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 04:38 PM
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3reach,

Lower than zero???? hmmmm....drinking a little early???

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post #187 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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3reach,

Lower than zero???? hmmmm....drinking a little early???
What? I said 0 black
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post #188 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 04:47 PM
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Sorry....brain cells misfiring again.

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post #189 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry....brain cells misfiring again.
I think someone else is drinking lol
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post #190 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 05:52 PM
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I think someone else is drinking lol
The strongest drink I've had today is diet tea. lol

When I want to live on the edge, I go for chocolate milk. yum.

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post #191 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Until Panny;s Kuro killer comes, hopefully the vx300 comes damn close and holds those who didnt get Kuros over.
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post #192 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 08:39 PM
 
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Over powering black levels can remove detail from dark scenes and reduce overall picture quality.
Over powering white levels can ruin a picture too.
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post #193 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmac31391
Over powering black levels can remove detail from dark scenes and reduce overall picture quality.
Over powering white levels can ruin a picture too.
Nothing in your post makes sense. The only way to remove detail is via crush or poor gamma. MLL and light output (barring eye damaging brightness levels) are completely irrelevant to loss of detail.
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post #194 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 3reach View Post
Until Panny;s Kuro killer comes, hopefully the vx300 comes damn close and holds those who didnt get Kuros over.
Panasonic may not have been top dog, but it always was the better buy when the Pioneers where out in full force in my opinion. 1 Pioneer was priced at 2 Panasonics. ( This was not including the final closeout on the 500M and 600M. )
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post #195 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Nothing in your post makes sense. The only way to remove detail is via crush or poor gamma. MLL and light output (barring eye damaging brightness levels) are completely irrelevant to loss of detail.
apparently your a lone wolf and don't read ******************* but such is life.
The first sentence I borrowed from them. Maybe they don't know what their talking about. Who knows!
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post #196 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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apparently your a lone wolf and don't read ******************* but such is life.
The first sentence I borrowed from them. Maybe they don't know what their talking about. Who knows!
My god D-Nice finally comes back and the trolls have to start again

Learn to be respectful.
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post #197 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmac31391

apparently your a lone wolf and don't read ******************* but such is life.
The first sentence I borrowed from them. Maybe they don't know what their talking about. Who knows!
Whatever you attempted to link to is banned on this site. There is a reason for that.

As far as being a lone wolf, I think you need to look in the mirror as you are the one posting comments that would only come from someone who does not know any better.
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post #198 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma
Panasonic may not have been top dog, but it always was the better buy when the Pioneers where out in full force in my opinion. 1 Pioneer was priced at 2 Panasonics. ( This was not including the final closeout on the 500M and 600M. )
I'm.sorry but price is irrelevant when it comes to PQ. I find your post very odd when you have 20K+ speakers in your home. Are your speakers better than a set that costs half or a quarter less? Either you are being hypocritical or just biased towards brands that bring you the most profit.
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post #199 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 3reach View Post
My god D-Nice finally comes back and the trolls have to start again

Learn to be respectful.

Is there no shame!




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post #200 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:33 PM
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I'm.sorry but price is irrelevant when it comes to PQ. I find your post very odd when you have 20K+ speakers in your home. Are your speakers better than a set that costs half or a quarter less? Either you are being hypocritical or just biased towards brands that bring you the most profit.
Or he's just more of an audiophile than a videophile. I went to a movie theater this weekend for the first time in a long while and was shocked by how poor the black levels were on the screen even with the lights out. When there was plenty of content on the screen it wasn't an issue, but dark scenes it was pretty annoying. Also, I noticed all the imperfections in the screen that don't exist on my KRP. The one saving grace was probably the larger screen size, but even that can be compensated for by sitting closer (I usually sit pretty close to the plasma anyway). It reminded me just how important black level is to PQ. You don't have black, you don't have jack.

Don't let bigmac get to you. I'm pretty sure he's the only one on avs who doesn't realize that he's the not-so-funny court jester.
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post #201 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:37 PM
 
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Whatever you attempted to link to is banned on this site. There is a reason for that.

As far as being a lone wolf, I think you need to look in the mirror as you are the one posting comments that would only come from someone who does not know any better.
Ok , truths, I will agree to disagree but maybe you need to get out and read some guides of plasmas. regards!
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post #202 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dlplover

Or he's just more of an audiophile than a videophile.
Right, but audiophiles know price is irrelevant to SQ.

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Don't let bigmac get to you. I'm pretty sure he's the only one on avs who doesn't realize that he's the not-so-funny court jester.
Not a chance in hell he can.
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post #203 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmac31391

Ok , truths, I will agree to disagree but maybe you need to get out and read some guides of plasmas. regards!
Read some guides on plasma??? How about you understand who you are communicating with. It is quite obvious I know more about plasma than you do. You let me know when you really want to learn about PQ.
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post #204 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok , truths, I will agree to disagree but maybe you need to get out and read some guides of plasmas. regards!
You dont know who you are talking to.....your like a student trying to teach someone with a phd. Just stop. But I know that you are intentionally trolling for attention, so we should all just stop replying to you, or else you will continue.

Just ignore the troll.
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post #205 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 10:14 PM
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You dont know who you are talking to.....your like a student trying to teach someone with a phd. Just stop.
He's more like a junior high school dropout

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post #206 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
I'm.sorry but price is irrelevant when it comes to PQ. I find your post very odd when you have 20K+ speakers in your home. Are your speakers better than a set that costs half or a quarter less? Either you are being hypocritical or just biased towards brands that bring you the most profit.
"Touche" To start off I will say no other flat panel to date is better than a Kuro. Pioneer always brought in the most profit when they where out in full flow. When people ask me what I though, I felt there was a better bang for the buck out there. I am not biased in any way over here, except for where someone buys. I do like audio more than video and that would explain alot I bought the speakers at 60% off dealer cost. ( Not retail ) I basically stole them. Just like the 85" Panasonic that I got 65% off normal dealer cost. ( Not Retail ) When a deal is a slap in the face, I personally react, and do not question the purchase. In this case, I will say, if I did not find these supper buys, I would not have this amazing gear.

As always, to each his own.
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post #207 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma
"Touche" To start off I will say no other flat panel to date is better than a Kuro. Pioneer always brought in the most profit when they where out in full flow. When people ask me what I though, I felt there was a better bang for the buck out there. I am not biased in any way over here, except for where someone buys. I do like audio more than video and that would explain alot I bought the speakers at 60% off dealer cost. ( Not retail ) I basically stole them. Just like the 85" Panasonic that I got 65% off normal dealer cost. ( Not Retail ) When a deal is a slap in the face, I personally react, and do not question the purchase. In this case, I will say, if I did not find these supper buys, I would not have this amazing gear.

As always, to each his own.
Bang for the buck is a subjective factor that has no business in objective PQ or SQ.... or should I say picture and sound.

For instance, no matter what the price you paid for your speakers, they are not worth it in my opinion based on other brands I know and have heard. I can say the same about the 85" Panasonic since I cannot accept its flaws and know a few FPs that would run circles around it.

Having said that, I cannot denounce or disrespect you choice in what you define as value (bang for the buck) because what you and I value is subjective.
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post #208 of 666 Old 07-31-2011, 11:16 PM
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Good thing that material items do not mean much to me I change out my gear on a regular basis. Have to stay up with current affairs. I am always looking for the next smokin deal......
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post #209 of 666 Old 08-01-2011, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
I'm.sorry but price is irrelevant when it comes to PQ. I find your post very odd when you have 20K+ speakers in your home. Are your speakers better than a set that costs half or a quarter less? Either you are being hypocritical or just biased towards brands that bring you the most profit.
You are no doubt aware that he sells televisions and audio equipment for a living. (And he does a great job--still enjoying my 500M, Chris.) But you can't expect him to put principle over paycheck... run for political office if you want to battle that kind of moral guilt.

Also to be fair, audio is far more subjective. We can't hook up a gadget and simply measure how accurate a recording is to the source material. There is no standard "black level" of music reproduction.
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post #210 of 666 Old 08-01-2011, 05:30 AM
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Dear god.

I don't mind the Kuro comparisson but comparing vapor display to a real display makes no sense at all.


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