Got Plasma? Fix your Brightness Setting - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:18 PM
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^^^

You have turned "OFF" all of the 'automatic' image processing on your display .... Right???

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cavu View Post

^^^

You have turned "OFF" all of the 'automatic' image processing on your display .... Right???

Yes sir, they are three Panasonic Plasmas, an older 60U, a 85U and an S1. All running in cinema mode, relatively flat gamma in that mode, all processing is off. No dynamic or automatic processes running. CATS is off on the newer set.

The blu ray players are all setup properly as well.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

Yes sir, they are three Panasonic Plasmas, an older 60U, a 85U and an S1. All running in cinema mode, relatively flat gamma in that mode, all processing is off. No dynamic or automatic processes running. CATS is off on the newer set.

The blu ray players are all setup properly as well.

Have you tried asking this question in the display calibration forum? Might get some more opinions over there. Lots of knowledge in that forum

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Old 07-27-2011, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

make the 2% above video black bar disappear, and then increase brightness until it just appears. He then explains you should barely be able to see the 2% above video black bar, it should be "hard to see against the black background".

What most people do when following this is to set brightness so that 2% is the first video level that the TV can display. I think 2% gray on DVE is luma 20, so in that case levels 17-19 would be clipped on a digital display. While the first part of the instructions seem to advocate such clipping, the latter part doesn't necessarily say that the point is to clip so that 2% is the first level to display.

Since the second portion is somewhat subjective, the DVE instructions are not entirely black and white. Some digital displays will be able to have display black set at video black, and the subjective part of the quote can be satisfied either with gamma controls or room lighting. I'm not aware of any video standards that actually say the display should start reproducing video levels at 20 and up.

There are going to be some displays that have a rather low gamma, no gamma controls, and even with a lot of light in the room they're going to come out of black quickly. How do you deal with such a thing? You can clip a few levels if you want, which might look sort of similar to increasing gamma. You're not actually increasing a digital display's gamma, or how fast it comes out of it's darkest shade by lowering brightness. You're just changing where the display's black starts and cutting off any video information below that point.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post


DVE BD is the best disc to fix your brightness with. Use the grayscale ramp and smooth gradation pattern to set black level up correctly as follows:

Have you used the Spears and Munsil BD test disc?

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Old 07-27-2011, 03:43 PM
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I am not entirely sure how to approach this brightness thing. I think I kinda get the OP, but I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for? I have the original DVE dvd. I couldn't even get passed the first brightness adjustment, it was very hard to get different blacks between the suit and the shirt, and I couldn't see the X no matter what I tried.. I have the PN51D550 if that helps..
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

@TS
Sorry, but you must have a mistake with your AVS709-disc.

And: Of course the cinemascopebars count.

The 709 brightness is horrible way to bright.

Edit: Also checked his method using the greyscale pattern and the dots. It is indeed correct.
Also of note is it works with LCD too. Because its a more exact method.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diaz View Post

I couldn't even get passed the first brightness adjustment

Turn "OFF" any/all 'automatic' image processing options on your display!!

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

The 709 brightness is horrible way to bright.

Edit: Also checked his method using the greyscale pattern and the dots. It is indeed correct.
Also of note is it works with LCD too. Because its a more exact method.


Great. Glad someone agrees. It baffles me how many people haven't noticed this yet.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

The 709 brightness is horrible way to bright.

It's been fine on all the sets I've calibrated it with. (2 LCD's and 2 plasma's) The results from the AVS HD709 disc even coincide with the S&M calibration disc.

Sadly I don't have the DVE HD disc so I can't check it against that.

Also d-nice's widely used settings for the S2 also gives the same Brightness setting.

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Old 07-28-2011, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

It baffles me how many people haven't noticed this yet.

At one time there was basically DVE, Avia, and a limited few other options. Even when there were fewer options for calibration patterns, the DVE instructions were not necessarily one-click dead-agreement with other choices. Part of the reason behind wasting time creating something other people could use was in learning to understand how the display and some perception-related calibration aspects work. I've tried to cover the main relevant points at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post20748771. If your comments are not hyperbole, here are basically the choices for what is going on with your claims about major differences between sources:

1) The display has very poor black or near black performance. A range of 4 video levels above black should be very difficult to tell apart in typical viewing conditions. If the TV's first level above black is very bright, then in that case it may be reasonable to clip all information below 2% like you're doing.

2) Typical viewing conditions expect room lighting and that you're some distance from the display. I have no issue with violating these considerations in order to find where the first level above the display's black appears, but for actual evaluation you need to be a distance from the TV and using typical lighting.

3) The HD Nation video recommendations are higher than what I recommend, because they mention 17 with room lighting. The recommendations from the manual would have a lower brightness setting.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

Despite what most of us have learned from countless calibration discs and instructions via the forum and other online sources, the way we have been told to setup brightness is completely wrong.


Before you flame, read.


If you have been setting brightness by using, say, DVE BD, going to the pluge pattern and dialing down brightness just to the point when the black background blends with the below black bar, then your brightness is much too high for blu-disc playback. If you have been using this forum's AVS brightness pattern, setting your tv to display bar "17", then your brightness is also too high for video play back. Just because your HDTV's sourceless black doesn't dither, that doesn't mean it is inline with the blu-disc playback video black thats in the actual video. The letterbox bars do not matter.


What baffles me is the misinformation that is flowing through this forum, and all over the internet.


How did this begin?


Take any movie you own that shows video black in a scene. If you have setup your brightness incorrectly as instructed above, you will see a ton of dithering. If the set is dithering, but there is no detail, the brightness is wrong. Want to be sure? Turn your brightness up to 100, see how video black is now gray, with no details?



DVE BD is the best disc to fix your brightness with. Use the grayscale ramp and smooth gradation pattern to set black level up correctly as follows:

See the white dots on the ends of the smooth grayscale patterns? Get up close to the screen. If you have set brightness up incorrectly, as I mentioned above, you will see that dithering continues past the white dot markers, indicating that your black level is set to high. This will be the case if you setup your tv to display the "17" flashing bar, or the 2% above video black in the pluge pattern (depending on the disc you used). Setting your brightness up this way is wrong.


Lower the brightness until the dithering/gradation just begins after the white markers. Those markers exist to show you where video black is. Your brightness is now setup correct.


Return to the movie you tested with to see that your set is displaying video black correctly, without dithering.


This works on all blu-ray discs I have tested. About 10 of them currently.



The big question is why is everyone instructing people to set their brightness way to high to begin with?? I think the trouble lies in people not understanding that (for example) the 2% above black bar in the DVE pluge pattern should be just visible, with your nose up to the tv, not extremely visible, as a 10% above black bar should be.

If any calibrator wants to explain why this is so, please do, as I love a good debate.


Suggest test discs:


Troy Blu-Ray (night scene with brad pit in his tent)

Harry Potter OotP (Harry and friends confront lucius malfoy near end)


Both movies have plenty of video black displayed within the film itself.

Hi.i just did this and i got no dithering in my blacks thank you very much:)i used dve hd,

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