Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Kuro have a reddish tint to the blacks?
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - NO 7 15.91%
5020FD/6020FD - NO 3 6.82%
111FD/151FD - NO 5 11.36%
101FD/141FD - NO 4 9.09%
Other/Older Model (please post) - NO 4 9.09%
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - YES 9 20.45%
5020FD/6020FD - YES 7 15.91%
111FD/151FD - YES 4 9.09%
101FD/141FD - YES 2 4.55%
Other/Older Model (please post) - YES 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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post #361 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroud View Post


Normal PQ was perfect but pixels that had been black for several minutes (movie bars for example) would take a second or so to wake up.

Just one of the problems with resetting the pulse counter as the internal software is no long in sync with the aging of your PDP module.

A RST-P value of 60 is out of spec for 2nd Gen Kuro PDP modules. That along with your reset pulse counter is going to present some very interesting effects as you accumulate hours.
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post #362 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by THANKGOD4PLASMA View Post

Too black? How was your shadow detail?

After the initial calibration, the dynamic range looks normal. I do not see blacks being crushed on ISF settings. I use the PLUGE pattern to set the BRIGHTNESS level on the adjustment and to also observe if there is black crush on this pattern. If so, increase VOL RST P. TIP: Leave BRIGHTNESS to 0.

ONLY play with one variable which is VOL RST P to set the black level.


The bonus here is that the contrast ration has definitely improved as I am getting a better MLL value.

ISF Day I tuned to 42FL.
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post #363 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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D-Nice do you care to read my previous post and respond to it? Thanks!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21316622
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post #364 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

D-Nice do you care to read my previous post and respond to it? Thanks!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21316622

Unfortunately I do not see anything in your post that necessitates a response by me. I'm not going into detail as to what the pulse counter is used for and I've already stated the red tint comes from factory errors.

If you cannot live with the red tint, you are more than welcome to play Russian Roulette with your display by restting the pulse counter and adjusting the voltage controls.
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post #365 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Lol ok. I was just hoping to gain some insight into what the pulse counter is used for. Thanks for your help in the thread though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Unfortunately I do not see anything in your post that necessitates a response by me. I'm not going into detail as to what the pulse counter is used for and I've already stated the red tint comes from factory errors.

If you cannot live with the red tint, you are more than welcome to play Russian Roulette with your display by restting the pulse counter and adjusting the voltage controls.

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post #366 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

Lol ok. I was just hoping to gain some insight into what the pulse counter is used for. Thanks for your help in the thread though.

Its used to control the panel. Xrox pointed that out a day or two ago
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post #367 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 07:50 AM
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So there is no proper way to fix the reddish tint?
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post #368 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Its used to control the panel. Xrox pointed that out a day or two ago

Thanks. I guess I'll just have to be be satisifed with that haha
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post #369 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 08:03 AM
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Maybe red tint causes more panel damage then a reset pulse counter?
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post #370 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroud View Post

Maybe red tint causes more panel damage then a reset pulse counter?

Very good question. I hadn't thought about that. But obviously if there is a red tint then something is off and it can't be good for the display.
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post #371 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

Very good question. I hadn't thought about that. But obviously if there is a red tint then something is off and it can't be good for the display.

I must say that red tint did look rather unhealthy especially as it was growing across the screen.
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post #372 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 08:46 AM
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I see what you all mean by too black. Im going to slightly raise my RSP P and let u all know what i end up with.
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post #373 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

You can't calibrate 9G monitors using the factory menu. It's hard to know what might have happened but I'd be surprised if someone at Best Buy would have known how to enter the factory menu.

When he calibrated he used a factory remote to access the service menu. Once there he made the following adjustments:

Red drive (gain high) increased from 515 to 562
Green Drive (gain high) untouched at 542
Blue Drive (gain high) decreased from 500 to 275
Red, green and blue drive (bias offset) untouched at 500

The result was elevated blacks (worse than my Elite 1130HD) and over saturated reds. When I questioned him about the elevated blacks he said that the Kuro's crushed black detail and he preferred to have a higher black level and see the detail!

I got him to come back and reset what he had done back to the factory supplied settings and declined to have a recalibration performed using the user menu. So I purchased a copy of Control Cal and I have been using Silly Sally's settings ever since but the reddish blacks were there after the calibration and have never gone away. They may have been there before the calibration but I never saw them in four weeks of viewing and was very disappointed with the whole calibration experience.
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post #374 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdebass View Post

When he calibrated he used a factory remote to access the service menu. Once there he made the following adjustments:

Red drive (gain high) increased from 515 to 562
Green Drive (gain high) untouched at 542
Blue Drive (gain high) decreased from 500 to 275
Red, green and blue drive (bias offset) untouched at 500

The result was elevated blacks (worse than my Elite 1130HD) and over saturated reds. When I questioned him about the elevated blacks he said that the Kuro's crushed black detail and he preferred to have a higher black level and see the detail!

I got him to come back and reset what he had done back to the factory supplied settings and declined to have a recalibration performed using the user menu. So I purchased a copy of Control Cal and I have been using Silly Sally's settings ever since but the reddish blacks were there after the calibration and have never gone away. They may have been there before the calibration but I never saw them in four weeks of viewing and was very disappointed with the whole calibration experience.

Hi jackdebass,

I'm sorry to hear of your bad calibration (experience).... if you are interested, PM me your specific location information and I will refer a Calibrator to you that knows what they are doing with your Model.

I'll also PM you some additional info now.


Need to find a Professional Calibrator? Click Here to PM me with your Display & City

Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

Calibration Reports - Pioneer

 

ControlCAL™
Designed by Calibrators for Calibrators™

No need to fumble through the Display's Menu with its Remote Control™

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post #375 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdebass View Post

When he calibrated he used a factory remote to access the service menu. Once there he made the following adjustments:

Red drive (gain high) increased from 515 to 562
Green Drive (gain high) untouched at 542
Blue Drive (gain high) decreased from 500 to 275
Red, green and blue drive (bias offset) untouched at 500

The result was elevated blacks (worse than my Elite 1130HD) and over saturated reds. When I questioned him about the elevated blacks he said that the Kuro's crushed black detail and he preferred to have a higher black level and see the detail!

I got him to come back and reset what he had done back to the factory supplied settings and declined to have a recalibration performed using the user menu. So I purchased a copy of Control Cal and I have been using Silly Sally's settings ever since but the reddish blacks were there after the calibration and have never gone away. They may have been there before the calibration but I never saw them in four weeks of viewing and was very disappointed with the whole calibration experience.

If he damaged your display and it's not fixable, make them pay for the display.
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post #376 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

Has anyone actually tried just adjusting this without resetting the pulse counter to see if it gets rid of some of the red tint?

I tried that with my 5020. My original value was 012, so I can not lower it much to begin with. I didn't have a red tint, but perhaps a little too much gray. I lowered to zero and saw no effect. Raising it as lot introduces red. So I put it back to original setting of 012. Remember, I have a 5020, which is not an Elite model, but the lowest of the 9G models, so I'm thinking what I am seeing is probably the best a 5020 can do.

RIP Robin Williams. Thanks for the laughter.
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post #377 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdebass View Post


When he calibrated he used a factory remote to access the service menu. Once there he made the following adjustments:

Red drive (gain high) increased from 515 to 562
Green Drive (gain high) untouched at 542
Blue Drive (gain high) decreased from 500 to 275
Red, green and blue drive (bias offset) untouched at 500

The result was elevated blacks (worse than my Elite 1130HD) and over saturated reds. When I questioned him about the elevated blacks he said that the Kuro's crushed black detail and he preferred to have a higher black level and see the detail!

I got him to come back and reset what he had done back to the factory supplied settings and declined to have a recalibration performed using the user menu. So I purchased a copy of Control Cal and I have been using Silly Sally's settings ever since but the reddish blacks were there after the calibration and have never gone away. They may have been there before the calibration but I never saw them in four weeks of viewing and was very disappointed with the whole calibration experience.

Adjusting the RGB High controls have zero impact on MLL. Your calibrator had/has the brightness setting in the user menu too high.
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post #378 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Adjusting the RGB High controls have zero impact on MLL. Your calibrator had/has the brightness setting in the user menu too high.

I just looked up his calibration report and yes you are quite correct, he had brightness set to +13 in Pure Mode after his "calibration", contrast was 36, color +21 (!), Hue -5(!) and sharpness at -15. Interestingly the 100 IRE was reading 50fL, it was that bright. Needless to say I couldn't live with those settings so he came back and undid what was done and have been using Siily Sally's for ISF Day and Night since.
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post #379 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdebass View Post

I just looked up his calibration report and yes you are quite correct, he had brightness set to +13 in Pure Mode after his "calibration",

LOL

Hire someone that knows that model..

Please do report back after you have it properly calibrated..


.

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Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

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post #380 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdebass View Post

Red drive (gain high) increased from 515 to 562
Green Drive (gain high) untouched at 542
Blue Drive (gain high) decreased from 500 to 275
Red, green and blue drive (bias offset) untouched at 500

I'm not sure what you're talking about here but if you mean the settings found in the Panel and Panel-2 sub-menus (prh,pry) those are for factory adjustments.

You don't calibrate a 9G monitor using the factory menu. That's one of the benefits.
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post #381 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I'm not sure what you're talking about here but if you mean the settings found in the Panel and Panel-2 sub-menus (prh,pry) those are for factory adjustments.

You don't calibrate a 9G monitor using the factory menu. That's one of the benefits.

I've just checked the service manual and I believe you are correct when the calibration was performed he adjusted the factory set white balance in the service menu. It screwed up all the user av selection modes they all had the over saturated reds and it could not be adjusted out from the user menu using the manual color temp adjustments. I had to get him back to reset what he had done inn the service menu to get any of the av modes to look normal again.

I only let them do it because it was a free calibration thrown in with the purchase of the TV. I figured why not if I don't like it I can always re-set it, little did I know...
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post #382 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 03:07 PM
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jackdebass,

That is exactly what happend with me when I got my 5020 from BB. Got a free calibration, and the so called calibrator messed with the service menu adjustments. Got my tv professionally calibrated and he had to go into the SM to fix the mess caused by BB. He was having a hard time calibrating until I told him about BB, and he knew exactly what the problem was after that.

BB set high white Balance
Red 482
Green 502
Blue 255

Calibrator went in and reset to 350, 402 and 410 respectively and then recalibrated the tv.

RIP Robin Williams. Thanks for the laughter.
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post #383 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Unfortunately I do not see anything in your post that necessitates a response by me. I'm not going into detail as to what the pulse counter is used for and I've already stated the red tint comes from factory errors.

If you cannot live with the red tint, you are more than welcome to play Russian Roulette with your display by restting the pulse counter and adjusting the voltage controls.

D-Nice...if YOU OWNED one of the afflicted sets would you just live with this issue, or do you think there is a way to safely improve it?
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post #384 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBuck View Post


D-Nice...if YOU OWNED one of the afflicted sets would you just live with this issue, or do you think there is a way to safely improve it?

If there was a safe way to correct it, I would have posted it a long time ago.

I personally would not risk a dangerous procedure like resetting the pulse counter and playing with voltage controls that I don't understand to get rid of the red tint.
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post #385 of 2691 Old 12-09-2011, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

If there was a safe way to correct it, I would have posted it a long time ago.

I personally would not risk a dangerous procedure like resetting the pulse counter and playing with voltage controls that I don't understand to get rid of the red tint.

Thank you sir. BTW do you know what part is screwed up on these? Is it the panel itself, or some other issue causing this? I think I am taking your advice and leaving mine alone unless we learn more about what's going on.
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post #386 of 2691 Old 12-10-2011, 03:25 AM
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Let's be clear as to avoid any repercussions. There are 2 types of red tint.

The first is caused by incorrect calibration and menu adjustments. Professional calibrators are the experts in this field and no one can dispute that. They have many years of professional experience. Get them out to check what is going on. You should never perform any experimental procedures on your TV.

The second type cannot be solved with calibration (as far as we know) and manifests itself as an uneven red tint that first appears at the right hand side of the screen. It seems likely that this issue is caused by a fault in the electrical or software engineering of the PDP module.

I am a software engineer with 15 years experience although I do not work for the plasma manufacturing industry.

Some points to consider then.

1. Not enough voltage causes pixels to sparkle. There are various examples of this on the web but I found this one quite amusing

http://www.jopezu.com/plasma.htm

2. Over voltage causes black to become lighter. This happened when I increased VOL RST P on my PDP module. It also happened as a result of Panasonic's automatic voltage adjustment problem in 2010 (a problem which has been fixed on newer models).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10447329-1.html

It seems no one has a solution to this. Bottom line, get the calibrators out. They are the experts. If they cannot fix the issue then you are on your own.
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post #387 of 2691 Old 12-10-2011, 06:04 AM
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Interesting response from Pioneer...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/pione...-blacks-5.html
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post #388 of 2691 Old 12-10-2011, 06:42 AM
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WOW, nice product support. (yes I know they don't make them anymore. Now I know why.) So I have to live with a faulty product? Thats the last Pioneer product my money will ever buy. I was leaning towards the Sharp Elite. But not after seeing what the Kuro techs figure is a working product. Kuro must be Japanese for works for a while. Sorry a little upset with my disposable tv.
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post #389 of 2691 Old 12-10-2011, 07:46 AM
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For those of you with the red tint, can you please provide answers to the following questions:
  • What is the model number of your display?
  • What is the assembly date of your display? If you do not know the assembly date, provide the first two characters of the serial number located on the sticker at the top right of the display.
  • What is the build date and serial number of your PDP module? 50" owners, look through the vent holes on the back and it be at the top right hand corner. 60" owners, look through the bottom center vent holes to find it.
  • Did you purchase the display new or used?
  • How many hours do you currently have?
  • When did notice the red tint? Please provide the hours of use when you first noticed the tint if you can.
  • How many hours per day is the display powered ON and in use?
  • What is the average temperature of the room the display has been operating in?
  • Have you had your display calibrated?
  • Have you been using my reference settings?
  • Did you perform the 150 hour panel aging procedure I recommend with my settings?
  • What video mode and settings have you used with your display throughout its lifespan. Please be a thorough as possible and provide the video mode and settings that you have been using the most.
  • Have you ever been in the SM? If so, please detail any modifications you performed.
  • Have you ever had any serious power issues in the room the display has been operating in?
  • Has the display ever been damage/abused? If so, please detail the damage/abuse.
  • Has the display ever needed repair? If so, when, what was the problem, who did the repair and was the display performing post repair as it was prior to the repair?
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post #390 of 2691 Old 12-10-2011, 08:45 AM
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PDP 5020
Build date: 06/08
Panel manf: 05/08
Purchased: nib 12/08
Panel hours:approximately 6000
Panel break in: yes w/ color slides

Pioneer AAL3045-A
Plasma Display Module
Model PDU-PC50F09R4

May 2008
Serial # HESS007523UC

First noticed around 2500 hours, started searching and realized it wasn't isolated to my display. Did the board swap and had the set calibrated by dave evans in hopes it would cure the red blacks. It did not change in anyway. He commented then it seemed voltage related. Before calibration I used optimum mode, now exclusively isf night. The set is on roughly 6-8 hours a day. The display has never been in need of repair, and other than the red tint it has operated flawlessly. It has always been wall mounted with plenty of room to breath. The panel has remained in the living room ambient temperature of 68-70°
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