Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Kuro have a reddish tint to the blacks?
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - NO 10 15.38%
5020FD/6020FD - NO 4 6.15%
111FD/151FD - NO 7 10.77%
101FD/141FD - NO 6 9.23%
Other/Older Model (please post) - NO 5 7.69%
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - YES 16 24.62%
5020FD/6020FD - YES 10 15.38%
111FD/151FD - YES 5 7.69%
101FD/141FD - YES 3 4.62%
Other/Older Model (please post) - YES 1 1.54%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread
YOTR's Avatar YOTR 01:28 PM 08-17-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

As long as you don't see the issue Unless you're looking for it, you're fine. Some red tints have gone so bad that they distract you from watching TV in a dark room, just learn to control yourself and enjoy your set by not looking for it if your case isn't that bad.

Thanks for the response. I definitely don't see it unless I look for it. I could barely pick it up in the black bars of certain scenes in 2001 on blu ray last night. At the beginning of 2001 there is a black screen while the music starts for a few mintues. After that, the movie starts. During that black screen you can see a subtle red tint to the screen. That was in a completely dark room with no light though and my eyes naturally start looking for it (you know how that goes). As much as I am impressed with the Elite and VT50, I don't think it makes much sense to upgrade. I know the value will drop this time next year but I don't think I am gaining much by upgrading. Plus I don't watch movies in the dark anymore. I normally have at least one lamp on which as you know completely eliminates any red tint at all.

metallicaband's Avatar metallicaband 02:40 PM 08-17-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

Thanks for the response. I definitely don't see it unless I look for it. I could barely pick it up in the black bars of certain scenes in 2001 on blu ray last night. At the beginning of 2001 there is a black screen while the music starts for a few mintues. After that, the movie starts. During that black screen you can see a subtle red tint to the screen. That was in a completely dark room with no light though and my eyes naturally start looking for it (you know how that goes). As much as I am impressed with the Elite and VT50, I don't think it makes much sense to upgrade. I know the value will drop this time next year but I don't think I am gaining much by upgrading. Plus I don't watch movies in the dark anymore. I normally have at least one lamp on which as you know completely eliminates any red tint at all.
Yeah upgrading from the Kuro sure is tough and hard to justify, I'm disappointed with how the technology progressed in the past 4 years, I know the Kuro was very expensive to develop but comeon now it's been 4 years and there's nothing that clearly surpasses it!

I'm planning to upgrade when the next generation of video game consoles are released (I upgrade with every gen, PS4/Xbox720 should be here in mid to end 2013) and my 50" is very small in my eyes now (used to be HUGE coming from a 29" SDTV lol), next upgrade must be 65 or 70" at least, but I don't want to upgrade just for size alone, I need something that's noticeably better than my Kuro PQ wise and what's available is disappointing, to hell with 4K resolution, give me insane PQ please.

About the Harmony universal remotes:
On a side note, what's the cheapest route to get a harmony remote and enable accessing my Kuro 9G's factory mode with it? using and connecting my ControlCal is a hassle for me, I'm planning to tweak the voltage settings just when I'm about to watch something in the dark lol. I've never owned a harmony remote and have no idea what's all these pronto or whatever codes are, I don't care about the remotes function since I don't have 6000 remotes lying around me, I just need the cheapest and hassle free way to access the Kuro's factory mode.
saprano's Avatar saprano 01:48 PM 08-28-2012
Search the kuro owners thread for the discussion about getting to the service menu with an H1. A user provided us with the code. All you need is the remote and then download it from the website.

EDIT- Actually that was just to check hours on the 151. He didn't setup any other buttons to be used.
matte79's Avatar matte79 10:49 AM 09-18-2012
Hi

Asked Pioneer Sweden and they forwarden my question about this to belgium.
They forwarded it to Pioneer Japan.
Finally this is the answer,,

The plasma drive technology used in the KURO panels enabled Pioneer to
achieve a significant reduction in black levels with improved picture
quality. A slight colour difference may be visible when watching TV in a
very dark environment. This slight colour difference has existed with most
if not all plasmas, including the earlier Pioneer models although it was
not as noticeable due to the higher black level as the KURO models.

Since the KURO models have been designed to have a much lower black level,
slight colour differences can be noticed over a period of time. This is
because plasma panels use 3 different coloured phosphors, red, green and
blue. Each phosphor has slightly different light emission characteristics
which change overtime. Since the change of the red phosphor is relatively
mild, the picture could appear to become warmer in colour. The panel
automatically corrects this change when displaying general moving images.

Any pictures appearing warmer in colour, when viewing dark images in a very
dark environment, is a result of the light emission characteristic of the 3
different coloured phosphors, and is not regarded as a fault. This is
unnoticeable in normal viewing conditions.
vega509's Avatar vega509 11:06 AM 09-18-2012
More corporate legal BS to sidestep liability on defective products. If there were any truth to their statement, why did they not inform consumers of this before they made their purchase?
metallicaband's Avatar metallicaband 11:08 AM 09-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by matte79 View Post

Hi
Asked Pioneer Sweden and they forwarden my question about this to belgium.
They forwarded it to Pioneer Japan.
Finally this is the answer,,
The plasma drive technology used in the KURO panels enabled Pioneer to
achieve a significant reduction in black levels with improved picture
quality. A slight colour difference may be visible when watching TV in a
very dark environment. This slight colour difference has existed with most
if not all plasmas, including the earlier Pioneer models although it was
not as noticeable due to the higher black level as the KURO models.

Since the KURO models have been designed to have a much lower black level,
slight colour differences can be noticed over a period of time. This is
because plasma panels use 3 different coloured phosphors, red, green and
blue. Each phosphor has slightly different light emission characteristics
which change overtime. Since the change of the red phosphor is relatively
mild, the picture could appear to become warmer in colour. The panel
automatically corrects this change when displaying general moving images.

Any pictures appearing warmer in colour, when viewing dark images in a very
dark environment, is a result of the light emission characteristic of the 3
different coloured phosphors, and is not regarded as a fault. This is
unnoticeable in normal viewing conditions.

Excuse my french, but in short that simply is BullSh*t

This "normal" side effect as they're trying to put it only affects a certain number of Kuro users, there are some owners with 15,000 hours on their panel without having this issue at ALL, it's a DEFECT and some people got it, not normal no matter what they say.

Such a lazy answer, the problem is so bad for some people that it takes away one of Kuro's most advertised and absolute best features, great blacks.
vega509's Avatar vega509 12:44 PM 09-18-2012
Maybe a poll is in order...........

How many would have bought a "Kuro" knowing that at any time it could turn into a "Ruby" and Pioneer would not warranty it?
Mac13's Avatar Mac13 01:48 PM 09-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

the problem is so bad for some people that it takes away one of Kuro's most advertised and absolute best features, great blacks.

Exactly...kind of sad that I am going to be so happy to replace my Kuro with a 65VT50. Of course the main reason to get a new panel is because I want a larger TV but it will be nice not to have reddish blacks anymore!
matte79's Avatar matte79 02:28 PM 09-18-2012
Where can I download the service manual?
metallicaband's Avatar metallicaband 02:34 PM 09-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

Exactly...kind of sad that I am going to be so happy to replace my Kuro with a 65VT50. Of course the main reason to get a new panel is because I want a larger TV but it will be nice not to have reddish blacks anymore!
Congratz on the new set! I've been having the itch to buy a new panel for quite a while now, just waiting to see what will be available in the market till the new gen of consoles are released hopefully by end of 2013 and would definitely go for 65"+, 50" is so tiny in my eyes now lol. For the time being I'll use the voltage control to lower the VOL YKNOFSA D value temporarily when I want to watch an awesome movie in the dark, so much for it Not being a defect lulz!
vega509's Avatar vega509 02:40 PM 09-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by matte79 View Post

Where can I download the service manual?

for which model?
Mac13's Avatar Mac13 02:45 PM 09-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

Congratz on the new set! I've been having the itch to buy a new panel for quite a while now, just waiting to see what will be available in the market till the new gen of consoles are released hopefully by end of 2013 and would definitely go for 65"+, 50" is so tiny in my eyes now lol. For the time being I'll use the voltage control to lower the VOL YKNOFSA D value temporarily when I want to watch an awesome movie in the dark, so much for it Not being a defect lulz!

I unfortunately don't have it yet. I am waiting for the prices to come down some. They have actually been going up!
matte79's Avatar matte79 02:49 PM 09-18-2012
I have 5090H. A service manual would be Perfect.
vega509's Avatar vega509 05:49 PM 09-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by matte79 View Post

I have 5090H. A service manual would be Perfect.

I have the manual for the 6020 and 151. I do not think the 5090 is the same. You can try eserviceinfo.cox, there may be one there.
Stu03's Avatar Stu03 01:35 PM 09-21-2012
I have a service manual for the krp500A - it's European like the 5090H is, (UK).

Worldwide voltages are extremely similar for 50" Kuro's anyway - any differences for numbers are explained in the service manual : )
matte79's Avatar matte79 11:46 AM 09-22-2012
Do you have it in pdf?
iBrad's Avatar iBrad 11:53 AM 09-22-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by matte79 View Post

Do you have it in pdf?

You can download here:

http://elektrotanya.com/pioneer_pdp-lx5090h_sm.pdf/download.html
matte79's Avatar matte79 09:27 AM 09-23-2012
Thank you very much.
This service manual should be uesd together with this sm
http://elektrotanya.com/pioneer_pdp-lx5090_arp3480.pdf/download.html
RobertR1's Avatar RobertR1 12:29 PM 10-14-2012
The red tint issue is quite apparent on my set to the point my woman even notices it and she doesn't notice these things!

So what are my options? I bought in 2008 so warranty isn't an option.

I'm willing to do something risky given the panel lasts another year or so.

Looking at the marketplace it seems like we're in a transition period to 4k sets so I'm hoping to hold off.
metallicaband's Avatar metallicaband 12:49 PM 10-14-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

The red tint issue is quite apparent on my set to the point my woman even notices it and she doesn't notice these things!
So what are my options? I bought in 2008 so warranty isn't an option.
I'm willing to do something risky given the panel lasts another year or so.
Looking at the marketplace it seems like we're in a transition period to 4k sets so I'm hoping to hold off.

You don't have many options when dealing with the dreaded red tint, I only know of these methods that had some success:

- Doing a pulse/hour reset, this is risky and many people recommend against it because you'll confuse your HDTV about its current lifespan and how it adjusts the voltages automatically. I personally didn't do this because it could need several touch ups as time goes on and that doesn't work well with my OCD nature lol.

- Playing with certain voltage values (you can look up about those in the recent pages of this thread, I also posted some info about it) without doing a pulse/hour reset, I did this and managed to lower the red tint effect of my 5020FD by decreasing the VOL YKNOFSA D value from the default 128 to around 95-100, it decreased the red tint a lot but I had a weird effect on blank screen where blotch like things form after leaving it for a while. I decided to use the normal values and only lower the VOL YKNOFSA D when I'm about to watch a movie in a completely dark room.


On a side note, I've had a very good offer to get a display model KRP 500M that only has 300 hours on it for $1000 from my local pioneer deal (I'm not from the states btw) so I bought it, I'll report to you guys if I noticed any red tint on that set in the future.
RobertR1's Avatar RobertR1 01:09 AM 10-15-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

You don't have many options when dealing with the dreaded red tint, I only know of these methods that had some success:
- Doing a pulse/hour reset, this is risky and many people recommend against it because you'll confuse your HDTV about its current lifespan and how it adjusts the voltages automatically. I personally didn't do this because it could need several touch ups as time goes on and that doesn't work well with my OCD nature lol.
- Playing with certain voltage values (you can look up about those in the recent pages of this thread, I also posted some info about it) without doing a pulse/hour reset, I did this and managed to lower the red tint effect of my 5020FD by decreasing the VOL YKNOFSA D value from the default 128 to around 95-100, it decreased the red tint a lot but I had a weird effect on blank screen where blotch like things form after leaving it for a while. I decided to use the normal values and only lower the VOL YKNOFSA D when I'm about to watch a movie in a completely dark room.
On a side note, I've had a very good offer to get a display model KRP 500M that only has 300 hours on it for $1000 from my local pioneer deal (I'm not from the states btw) so I bought it, I'll report to you guys if I noticed any red tint on that set in the future.

I'm at a point where I'll try whatever and if the set bombs, it bombs. It's bugging the hell out of me and I'm not even in the mood to watch any BluRay or quality content knowing it'll all be tinted red.

I was really wanting to hold off until next year to get a OLED set but those seem like a myth at this point also. Display tech is in a rut with empty promises.
metallicaband's Avatar metallicaband 08:23 AM 10-15-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

I'm at a point where I'll try whatever and if the set bombs, it bombs. It's bugging the hell out of me and I'm not even in the mood to watch any BluRay or quality content knowing it'll all be tinted red.
I was really wanting to hold off until next year to get a OLED set but those seem like a myth at this point also. Display tech is in a rut with empty promises.
I don't think you'll risk frying the TV if you're staying within the spec voltage range (don't take my word for it though I'm not an expert), it just might involve a good amount of trial and error to fix any potential issues such as artifacts and stuff like that.

I too am very disappointed with how the TV technology has progressed in the past few years, it's mostly just about stupid gimmicks these days, it's Very disappointing that no one has matched a 4 year old Kuro 9G tech. Even if OLED comes out, God knows what kind of issues it'll bring with it since it's a new tech, I'm hoping for Panasonic to step up and match Kuro's blacks as well as image retention/burn in resistance then I think we'll definitely have a clear replacement for the Kuro, I really need a quality 65" or 70" display by the end of next year.
Gh4mjteam's Avatar Gh4mjteam 08:33 PM 10-24-2012
I apologize if this has been answered before, but I really cannot get myself to read through the 1000+ posts that are in this thread. I have a PRO151 panel and have recently noticed that I have the reddish tint to my blacks. Does anyone know if there is way to access the service menu using a Mac? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
Ragnarok666's Avatar Ragnarok666 07:34 AM 10-25-2012
my uk LX5090 is sorted now.

no reset

I lowered 2 values,

RSTP my default was 33 it's now 15. the RSTP didn't seem to do alot on it's own

YKNOFSA was 128 , now it's 95. The YKNOFSA on it's own helped the blacks but it introduced missfiring of pixels around 105. it needed to be alot lower on it's own to fix the blacks which lead to alot of misfireing especially on a white screen. Earlier on in this thred i got real excited when this looked like a no reset fix, i blurted it out way to quick.

both of these together seem to have cured my issue with 12000 hours on the screen. it's been good for a few days now.

Thanks to the guys on AVforums for pointing this out.

Same warning goes as many have said before, if you are going to go in the factory menu, make a note of the all values you start out with, that you could adjust even by accident so if things don't work or goto plan you can put them back.
matte79's Avatar matte79 02:52 PM 11-02-2012
Are hou swedish ragnarök?
breuf's Avatar breuf 03:37 PM 11-22-2012

I'm an italian user for this fantastic plasma display; I've bought it in January this year (it's a second hand) and I've been learning about it for the last 6 months!! I'm very enthusiast.

After reading many messages,I've decided to reset my display, it was 7000 hours with 4300 working hours.

Before reset:

VOL SUS=128
RSTP=018;
VOL YKNOFS1 D=138;
VOL YKNOFS3 D=128;
VOL YKNOFS4 D=149;
VOL YKNOFSA D=128.


After reset

VOL SUS=138 (with AVS 709 HD BD test disc some missfiring pixel were present if VOL SUS = 128);
the others parameter have been increased by 10 points exept for RSTP and YKNOFSA D they are still as original values as you suggested.

The problem i can see is a sort of lug of pixel in the meaning that in the very dark scenes I can see an effect like a glow for the images wich pass throgh the black scenes.

Is there any other procedure to fix this small issue?

p.s.: also the menu of the display like main av menu or volume are displayed with a very big delay when 2:35 black bar are on the screen ...

Thank you in advance
Stu03's Avatar Stu03 02:08 PM 12-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by breuf View Post

I'm an italian user for this fantastic plasma display; I've bought it in January this year (it's a second hand) and I've been learning about it for the last 6 months!! I'm very enthusiast.
After reading many messages,I've decided to reset my display, it was 7000 hours with 4300 working hours.
Before reset:
VOL SUS=128
RSTP=018;
VOL YKNOFS1 D=138;
VOL YKNOFS3 D=128;
VOL YKNOFS4 D=149;
VOL YKNOFSA D=128.
After reset
VOL SUS=138 (with AVS 709 HD BD test disc some missfiring pixel were present if VOL SUS = 128);
the others parameter have been increased by 10 points exept for RSTP and YKNOFSA D they are still as original values as you suggested.
The problem i can see is a sort of lug of pixel in the meaning that in the very dark scenes I can see an effect like a glow for the images wich pass throgh the black scenes.
Is there any other procedure to fix this small issue?
p.s.: also the menu of the display like main av menu or volume are displayed with a very big delay when 2:35 black bar are on the screen ...
Thank you in advance
.

Do you mean something that looks like white sparkles or dots coming through the black ?
tarao's Avatar tarao 03:49 AM 12-15-2012
I have this problem for some time with a Kuro KRP-500A. I´m trying to read all the thread, thinkig about reseting or not the panel (the red tint is very annoying for me), and I thought it would be interesting to see how the first reseter's TVs are after more than 1 year. That would be an interesting inside for the rest of us.

By the way, I will try first Ragnarok's fix and see how it goes.

Edit: Also D-nice said that he confirmed the red tint panels have the factory setup voltage wrong, but I don´t find it explained. If there is a wrong voltage that is damaging our panels would not be advisable to publish it?
neo22's Avatar neo22 08:24 PM 12-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarao View Post

Edit: Also D-nice said that he confirmed the red tint panels have the factory setup voltage wrong, but I don´t find it explained. If there is a wrong voltage that is damaging our panels would not be advisable to publish it?

Or he could reply to emails for individuals looking for calibration...
tarao's Avatar tarao 01:46 AM 12-17-2012
Well, at least one tech has done the changes, I read it somewhere. If I remember correctly he messed with the YKNOFSA value that´s just what maschior found to have to do, but I suspect it´s not the official posture of Pioneer that being to deny the problem.
And it seems the case that it gets worse as time goes by. After reading all the thread and some of UK's, my theory is that as the Panel ages, the plasma changes and to balance that, the panel on its own changes some voltages, and for some reason it overdo it. That's why the non reseters have to get some voltages down while the reseters (that make belive the tv that i has 0 usage hours and null all the TV autocorrections on voltages) have to get them up. That being said I´m not an engineer so that´s just my theory after reading a lot of experiences here, not based on the tech.

I know some recomend to not mess with the voltages and I understand why, but I´m pretty sure that those are not experiencing the problem. It gets to a point where the TV in not viewable with dark content, at least for us who know how this TV used to be.
Tags: Pioneer , Pioneer Pdp 6020fd 60 Inch Class Kuro Plasma Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Pioneer Pdp 5020fd 50 Inch 1080p Kuro Plasma Hdtv , Playstation 3 160gb System
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