Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 64 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Kuro have a reddish tint to the blacks?
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - NO 7 15.91%
5020FD/6020FD - NO 3 6.82%
111FD/151FD - NO 5 11.36%
101FD/141FD - NO 4 9.09%
Other/Older Model (please post) - NO 4 9.09%
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - YES 9 20.45%
5020FD/6020FD - YES 7 15.91%
111FD/151FD - YES 4 9.09%
101FD/141FD - YES 2 4.55%
Other/Older Model (please post) - YES 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1891 of 2691 Old 02-03-2014, 09:49 AM
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ROTFL. ^^

Present day competition - lol - something like that.

My KRP500 certainly isn't quivering in it's boots.

Or on it's stand for that matter smile.gif.
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post #1892 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Be careful with VOL SUS that high . No way 195 is normal (especially not when raising ABL) Stoozka.

Stoozka

Presumably you have a service manual.

It explains about VOL SUS in conjunction with ABL.

There has already been someone fry a power board on KRP playing about with stuff - you don't want to be the second.

Ur definitely right im not going to touch the values almost anymore, i just rasied the ABL today to 215 and the picture looks like it was never before, Beautiful picture when watching ice or hocky games, and the tv works stable for 4 hours with no problems [touch wood] and shut it off cause most of the time i still watch tv with the Toshiba 34" CRT from 2004 lol
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

By all means try turning a Kuro plasma into an LCD.

Your totally right but we are trying to get the best as we can achieve from that plasma, if u compare it to the to the 2 lcds[samsung 22+ IBM 19] of my other pc now u will c the different the krp now is ripping them and they look much darker but not this led samsung S24 that still much brighter compare with 1920X1200 on77hz.

Im just so glad that i found a genius and helpfull guy like pg_ice in that forum that thinks same as me about illumination and how looks bad a dim picture [pg be blessed lol], Because in Israeli forum almost all the people attacked me said that i helusinate and that plasma cant never reach to a bright shining picture like in LCD or even become brighter than what i have, i already know that its a total different technology, no one almost helped me, the few people that knew the technician codes how to enter the service menu refused to give it to me even after i begged and told them that it will be on my responsibility is something will happen [include 1 guy that u know very well from this forum] they still refused, until i found this sophisticated forum and pg to help.]
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

These are not super dim Panasonic zt or vt plasma's. The only plasma's brighter than these 9G's is the F8500 Samsung.

Total right, every Panasonic that i tested looked always dark and dimmed to me, Every plasma of them which i saw [include my cousin house GT50 or vt50 at a freind of parents]. But i disagree with u about the F8500 that is the only brighter, The plasma which i had for 5 years, talking about the SAMSUNG PS42Q91HD was brighter than the KRP and still even after the adjustment i did with the ABL it looks brighter and beats the KRP after 6 years of using, and everytime that i go to my parents room i can still c the different and how it glows compare to the kuro still, and im talking about the basic illumination and light level that the TV produces,
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

The way my 500m is set up ABL doesn't effect white or bright scenes until contrast is above 41 (clipping) on the AV modes anyway - probably not just ABL though the monitors are driven slightly different from tv's. That is ABL at 126 on the monitor on all frequencies on mine.

Ill tell u and pg now how it looks for my point of view and my taste, almost every Tv that i raised her contrast to at least 85-95% of her capability, the picture looks much better. brighter,alive and shining [and thats how i like it even when lose very little details sometimes] even with that clipping that u and pg are talking about.
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Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

If i needed it higher than that then it will only matter for me with an ISF calibration. As i wouldn't be able to raise contrast on the 500M (without clipping) without accessing ISF control so raising ABL higher than default for my 500M (126) would be pointless.

Presumably ISF/THX calibrators must raise ABL along with the calibration contrast if going for max light output DAY mode - as then if it wasn't high enough with the higher contrast of the ISF control i can only assume then it would stand out then.

Rob if you are reading, i can't remember what you said it was on some other Kuro thread - what did your calibrator raise ABL to when you had ISF DAY done btw ?

The only thing that i try to solve now is how to shut off the dimming totally when im in a full white screen or full page and it becomes a bit darker, i dont think that there is a solution for it even if ill raise the ABL to 230 like pg did because its a basic property of the TV.
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post #1893 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 06:22 AM
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sorry posted twice by mistake plz erase.
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post #1894 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 06:29 AM
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So I did some experimentation last night. I got rid of the reddish tint in my 111fd by lowering the RST P 5-1 and VOL YKNOFSA 128-95. The red tint was gone and the blacks were very black again. Bascially looked the way it did or a little better than new. But all this talk about oled blacks left me wanting more. I wasn't sure if a 111fd could produce a black that looked as if it was off like the 101 and 500s. Maybe it can't because I havent seen either of those sets. But I made some adjustments last night and I think I achieved it! Ill post the settings below. Just to made it clear I have not done any resets on this tv. The picture looks absolutely incredible!!! If I display the 0IRE on the AVS 709 it looks as if the TV is off. If I go to the 5% window the black around looks like it is turned off. I never thought that a 111fd could produce blacks like that. If you go right up to the TV you can still see a very faint glow. The picture looks so vivid. I was watching Planet Earth Caves and in the dark scenes, the parts of the picture that aren't black just pop off the screen. Now I don't belief I'm done adjusting because there are side effects to doing this. I do see black rain on the top of the picture for a second when switching from 2.35:1 from a full screen. Also the is black rain when watching apple tv photos move up the screen. Also on certain bright images that change color I can get a few magenta misfire but they go away after a second. I sit about 8 feet away from the TV and all of these side effects can only be seeen when you are 2 feet or closer to the set. I plan on adjusting the tv again tonight and try to acheive the same results without or minimizing the side effects. Everyone on this board has been such a big help and I think its great for everyone to work together and share their findings to make these Kuros produce the ultimate blacks. If anyone has ideas on how to minimize my side effect please share. I don't take responsiblily for other people making changes to their TVs, I'm just explaining what I did.

VOL SUS 150 (helped with misfires)
VOL OFFSET 110
VOL RST P 1
VOL YKNOFS1 113
VOL YKNOFS3 98
VOL YKNOFS4 158 (originally lower but raised to help misfires, did change black level)
VOL YKNOFSA 80
Everthing else I left at default
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post #1895 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 06:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

The only thing that i try to solve now is how to shut up the dimming totally when im in a full white screen or full page and it becomes a bit darker, i dont think that there is a solution for it even if ill raise the ABL to 230 like pg did because its a basic property of the TV.

around 100cd/m2 is the max brightness you can get with a full white screen even with the highest ABL value of 255.
look here
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1512068/abl-chart-for-pioneer-9g-kuro

if you should be able to delete ABL and have the peak brightness on a 100% white field then the Kuro should eat around 1400W smile.gif
its not possible.

here is the different power usages with different ABL settings
remember its the MAX usage that you only will get displaying a 100% white field.

MAX Power Consumption with Different ABL Settings
ISF DAY

ABL 107 (Default) = 370W
ABL 180 = 470W
ABL 230= 670W


so your Kuro hasnt crashed yet?
thats good news!

have you checked the temp after raising ABL?

i bet the problem was Kurocontrol with the ABL commands.

btw genius? haha
i just wants to get the most out of everything.
it doesnt matter if it is a TV or a BMW M3 car.
both should be used to the limits without breaking anything wink.gif
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post #1896 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 06:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddrain1 View Post

The picture looks so vivid.

thats the point
everything that you see on the screen starts from Black.
the deeper the blacks the greater the experience smile.gif

instead of messing around with the Voltages you should do a reset (re calibration) instead.
its better to start from scratch.

use the recomended settings from the guide and put back the ones you have changed to default if you are doing the reset.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510500/pioneer-8g-9g-kuro-reset-guide
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post #1897 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post


so your Kuro hasnt crashed yet?
thats good news!

lol thx, Yes i hope it will stay like that but i barely watch content on the krp, most of blueray or movies from pc sometimes some HD cable chanells and once in a few days sometimes and just for few hours, i hope it will effect the tv's life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

have you checked the temp after raising ABL?

I checked now the temperature it said 52-62c
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

i bet the problem was Kurocontrol with the ABL commands.

I really hope ur right.

Other thing that im still searching is a whql certified driver for the ush-19 keyspan adapter that doesnt cause bsod to my pcs, i sometimes connect via the ethernet cable with kuro reader but never checked with kurocontrol.
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post #1898 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 06:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

I checked now the temperature it says 52-62c

62c must be an old MAX temp.
52 is your current and thats normal.

you should also do the reset
then everything is cleared out even the temps
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

i hope it will effect the tv's life.

my Kuro has been on for 11 hours/day for the last 5 years.
now its better than ever haha
so dont worry about lifetime on the Kuros.

they seems to work best after a break-in period of 10k hours wink.gif

how many hors have you on your KRP?
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post #1899 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

62c must be an old MAX temp.
52 is your current and thats normal.

you should also do the reset
then everything is cleared out even the temps

I think that i did the reset after i purchased control cal patcher and used it and erased the hours that day, now kuro reader showed me recently just 58 hours. is that a full reset i did?

btw in the left side appears the 52c temperature like i wrote it.
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post #1900 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

I think that i did the reset after i purchased control cal patcher and used it and erased the hours that day, now kuro reader showed me recently just 58 hours. is that a full reset i did?

dont know
if you wrote all these commands then you did a FULL reset.
if not you should do a full reset

CHM
CHR
CNG
CMT
CPC
CPD
CPM
CSD
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post #1901 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

62c must be an old MAX temp.
52 is your current and thats normal.

It was before i did the reset 8213 or 8123 i dont exactly remember because it was a year+ 3 months ago when i revealed kuroreader and checked after i purchased the tv from that guy
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post #1902 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

It was before i did the reset 8213 or 8123 i dont exacrtly remember because it was a year+ 3 months ago when i revealed kuroreader and checked after i purchased the tv from that guy

lets say you have 1000 more hours now then you are up to 9000
you need to watch movies for 10000 hours more to get up to my Kuro LOL
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post #1903 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

dont know
if you wrote all these commands then you did a FULL reset.
if not you should do a full reset

CHM
CHR
CNG
CMT
CPC
CPD
CPM
CSD

Ok i will do it soon too with control cal to not crash the tv like u said with kurocontrol , but i presume that i will have to set all the factory menu values again after right?
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post #1904 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:12 AM
 
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Quote:
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but i presume that i will have to set all the factory menu values again after right?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361871/official-pioneer-kuro-reddish-tint-problem-thread/1890#post_24309255
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post #1905 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:23 AM
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Ok ill do it soon too again but i think that my values are much higher than what appears in your guide because i followed another guide that appears in a manual page in that thread and i choosed almost the max settings limit.

I need post all my values here, i hope ill do it this night or tomorrow.

there are few values in the end of the ADJ-1 than ends with Hz and another values i forgot exactly the names[they are all set to 128 by default], which when u change them they make the TV flicker, And i thought that they make the tv looks brighter, so i changed them too to 130 all instead of 128 and those with the HZ at the end i changed to 132 is that ok or i did something wrong?
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post #1906 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddrain1 View Post

Also the is black rain when watching apple tv photos move up the screen.

These damn Apple Photos ruins the blacks on the Kuros! biggrin.gif

is it because they scrolls up slowly with a black background?
or how does they move around?
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post #1907 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:27 AM
 
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Quote:
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but i think that my values are much higher than what appears in your guide

those are the recomended NEW values after the reset
not you default ones.
yes your default S1/S3 will probably be higher default.
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post #1908 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

Ur definitely right im not going to touch the values almost anymore, i just rasied the ABL today to 215 and the picture looks like it was never before, Beautiful picture when watching ice or hocky games, and the tv works stable for 4 hours with no problems [touch wood] and shut it off cause most of the time i still watch tv with the Toshiba 34" CRT from 2004 lol
Your totally right but we are trying to get the best as we can achieve from that plasma, if u compare it to the to the 2 lcds[samsung 22+ IBM 19] of my other pc now u will c the different the krp now is ripping them and they look much darker but not this led samsung S24 that still much brighter compare with 1920X1200 on77hz.

Im just so glad that i found a genius and helpfull guy like pg_ice in that forum that thinks same as me about illumination and how looks bad a dim picture [pg be blessed lol], Because in Israeli forum almost all the people attacked me said that i helusinate and that plasma cant never reach to a bright shining picture like in LCD or even become brighter than what i have, i already know that its a total different technology, no one almost helped me, the few people that knew the technician codes how to enter the service menu refused to give it to me even after i begged and told them that it will be on my responsibility is something will happen [include 1 guy that u know very well from this forum] they still refused, until i found this sophisticated forum and pg to help.]


Total right, every Panasonic that i tested looked always dark and dimmed to me, Every plasma of them which i saw [include my cousin house GT50 or vt50 at a freind of parents]. But i disagree with u about the F8500 that is the only brighter, The plasma which i had for 5 years, talking about the SAMSUNG PS42Q91HD was brighter than the KRP and still even after the adjustment i did with the ABL it looks brighter and beats the KRP after 6 years of using, and everytime that i go to my parents room i can still c the different and how it glows compare to the kuro still, and im talking about the basic illumination and light level that the TV produces,


Ill tell u and pg now how it looks for my point of view and my taste, almost every Tv that i raised her contrast to at least 85-95% of her capability, the picture looks much better. brighter,alive and shining [and thats how i like it even when lose very little details sometimes] even with that clipping that u and pg are talking about.


The only thing that i try to solve now is how to shut off the dimming totally when im in a full white screen or full page and it becomes a bit darker, i dont think that there is a solution for it even if ill raise the ABL to 230 like pg did because its a basic property of the TV.

Lol long post.

First of all - great - you like straining the tv...

But it's just not for me tbh.

I will explain why in my opinion.

But the 42" Samsung you are referring to - i have absolutely no experience with that particular display. But if you say it's bright it may well be and probably is... Smaller screens put out more light per square ft... So theoretically 42" should put out more light (as will the 42" 8G Kuro's) than a 50"...A 50" will put out more peak light than a 60" plasma and so on and so forth.

But we are talking about reference quality displays here.

As far as ABL on the KRP 'monitor' goes it has less aggressive ABL than the tv's- imo as I've explained i feel it is high enough. A lot of video enthusiasts will feel the same. When i experimented on my previous reset 500A tv i raised ABL and imo by the time it had reached about 150 to (my) eyes i felt the image was be beginning to lose some depth. If i thought for a second it was enhancing the image i would have gone down that route.

But that's just me tongue.gif

On the subject of bright plasma's - the Kuro tv's are behind the Samsung F8500, but also the Panasonic pro plasma VX100.I don't know where the industrial KuroM model fits in there. Probably about the same as the VX if not a little behind. But the Kuro filter is streets ahead of that particular Panasonic display so much more suitable for strong ambient or day lighting conditions.

CNet have been quoted as saying (i along with a lot of others don't agree with everything they say) but said on thread somewhere that the Samsung F8500 - followed by the Pioneer Kuro TV's were the (only) plasma TV's they had tested in recent times (able) to hold brightness on a full white signal/screen. So presumably even with these ABL figures on the TV's approximately 112-118 it is enough in most cases. Even for the professional testing teams.

So my default ABL value of 126 (again imho) is plenty good enough for me.

I have never seen the 500M dim once yet.

With Sport mode and Standard mode outputting very nearly 50FTL (before ISF is activated) again if i ever felt the need for ABL to match the ISF day mode then i would wholeheartedly leave it up to the ISF pro to decide on the best course of measure/number for my display.

But to be brutally frank - it is very much a moot point for me - as i usually only use Pure and movie mode approximately 35FTL (even)for daytime viewing - the KRP500 filter is good enough for that comfortably. Night ambient light or lights out anything between 17 and 28FTL.

Very much material dependent - and video output.
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post #1909 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

those are the recomended NEW values after the reset
not you default ones.
yes your default S1/S3 will probably be higher default

but i think that my values are much higher than what appears in your guide.


Im searching for that guide to save it in my pc, it appears in that thread in 1 of the pages but i cant find it mad.gif

And its not this http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361871/lightbox/post/24237833/id/357180
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post #1910 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:35 AM
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posted twice again confused.gif plz erase.
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post #1911 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:47 AM
 
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Quote:
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Im searching for that guide to save it in my pc, it appears in that thread in 1 of the pages but i cant find it mad.gif

And its not this http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361871/lightbox/post/24237833/id/357180

i dont understand your problem.
dont you know what your default vaules is or?
you cant find your default settings from the manual only recomended min/max tolerances
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post #1912 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:49 AM
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yeah they move up slowly in a completely black background. its basically a screen saver that comes on after 2 minutes
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post #1913 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

i dont understand your problem.
dont you know what your default vaules is or?
you cant find your default settings from the manual only recomended min/max tolerances
[
Yes just dont have it in the pdf manual of the krp that i have, i searched for it there now and it doesnt appear in the ordinary manual, im not seeking to the max values but as much as close to the max [ minus10-20] by this manual that i saw.

If ill set those values of stu by ur manual :
VOL SUS 150*
YKNOFS1D 112
YKNOFS3D 124
YKNOFSAD 128 (after some digging this is the recomended MAX value that should not be set any higher if everything is normal)
only set YKNOFSAD higher if you got problems with black blotches/Heavy black rain/Black lag or delays with moving images.

My Tv will look darker and will have the red sparkels if ill get behind 160 on vol sus, my values abit higher of those values that stu recommended, ill get inside the service menu and post them soon, all i know my vol sus is 176 , YKNOFS3D 124 is on 135 and YKNOFSAD 128 is on 145 if im not wrong
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post #1914 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 08:49 AM
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I have been misquoted then (not for the first time). I said between 152 and 156 for VOL SUS.

156 was bang on for my ex KRP-500A and a few other 500A's.

My exact post reset (sixth time)... (approximately 12,500 hours the last reset, 1st was just short of 11,000 hrs) numbers for my KRP500A were as follows...

VOL SUS =156

YKNOFS1D =114

YKNOFS3D =124

YKNOFSAD =152

XSUS_B =126

Y SUS_B =126

Default ABL values were 112,118,121.


ABL 112,118,121

Followed by some sort of greyscale calibration for clearing RGB dithering near black after approximately 100HRS.
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post #1915 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 08:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

If ill set those values of stu by ur manual :

why do you set these values now?
you havnt done any reset.
your voltages will be more OFF then they where before if you set the recomended settings now before the reset.

i cant help you if you are not clear in the head man.
if you dont understand the information i give you then i cant help
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post #1916 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

why do you set these values now?
you havnt done any reset.
your voltages will be more OFF then they where before if you set the recomended settings now before the reset.

i cant help you if you are not clear in the head man.
if you dont understand the information i give you then i cant help

Ok ill do a full reset by your manual in the next few hours, but i affraid to touch the tv, so i affraid that ur values[of stu] a bit low and make the picture looks darker,
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post #1917 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 09:29 AM
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I agree.

The 'approximate' values are post reset (after) reset.

You can't expect any numbers posted to work on a tv that hasn't been reset :facepalm:

Where was it written down that these would work on a non reset display ?

We have been down this incredibly boring and long road before and i find it hilarious people who have no experience whatsoever being presumptuous that they know better.

confused.gif
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post #1918 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

I agree.

The 'approximate' values are post reset (after) reset.

You can't expect any numbers posted to work on a tv that hasn't been reset :facepalm:

We have been down this road before and i find it hilarious people who have no experience whatsoever being presumptuous that they know better.

confused.gif

I think that i did a full reset with the pg manual that day but i just dont remember exactly, the hours of my tv shows just 71 hours.
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post #1919 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 09:38 AM
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It's possible you reset the hours and perhaps something else but not the pulse meter.

The reset sequence is just that - if it's not followed to the book (service manual ideally) then it won't work.

One wrong press and things become extremely confusing.

For instance - to save values or clear properly it (the remote) must press the centre button (enter/set) after each adjustment or clearance ideally. Then standby
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post #1920 of 2691 Old 02-04-2014, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

It's possible you reset the hours and perhaps something else but not the pulse meter.

The reset sequence is just that - if it's not followed to the book (service manual ideally) then it won't work.

One wrong press and things become extremely confusing.

For instance - to save values or clear properly it (the remote) must press the centre button (enter/set) after each adjustment or clearance ideally. Then standby

yea I know this thx, yes i did after each value enter with the remote and to switch between every settings i must do it too,

But how can i check if i did a full reset to the pulse meter in the past without doing reset now again?[because i just dont remember if i did and i like the values i have now i affraid to play with it more and crash or burn it, from the other side i affraid that i didnt do a full reset and changed the values without it and the tv will crash or burn with those settings sooner or later]
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